Hello Christina, This stuff is indeed confusing. Here's what I've hobbled together, based on what the PSNI provided for the one record that I have and from one of Mr. Herlihy's books: Promotions/Reductions: P.I.S/C = Promotion from Sub-Constable 2nd Class to Sub-Constable 1st Class R.I.S/C = Reduction from Sub-Constable 1st Class back to Sub-Constable 2nd Class (confusing!!) Rewards: 3 F/R =3rd Class Favourable Reward H.Y.S = Half-Yearly Supplement, which indicated publication of an award in the twice-yearly RIC's 'magazine' that all the men received. Here's what I *think* may be the ranks, but not 100% sure.... Ranks: Pre-1883 After 1883 ==================================================== Sub-Constable 2nd Class Constable Sub-Constable 1st Class Constable Acting Constable Acting Sergeant Constable Sergeant Head Constable Head Constable Sub-Inspector 3rd Class Sub-Inspector 3rd Class A rank followed by "(M)", meant he was in one of the Mounted Troops. Any budding writers out there with time to spend at the Garda or PSNI Museum's, please put me down on the list of buyers when you publish "The Complete Idiot's Guide to the RIC". John in NC On 2015/03/15 11:04 , Christina Hunt wrote: > John, > Do you have a list of abbreviations for ranks. I tried to find this on > the web but what I found did not correspond to some of the > abbreviations. I was thinking of adding it to our R.I.C. pages for > researchers. > > BTW, my search for an RIC Constable came from a family member who said > my husband's ancestor was Police Chief of Dublin. LOL > > Chris > > John Olson-Kennedy via wrote: >> Another key point that the PSNI museum was able to sort out for me was >> the rank. Family lore had passed down the title of "Sargent O'Neill" >> for my gg-grandfather, but the records show his highest rank as >> constable. The museum was able to tell me that the ranks were changed >> in 1883 so that what had been a constable by the old system was a >> sargent under the new. >

John, Do you have a list of abbreviations for ranks. I tried to find this on the web but what I found did not correspond to some of the abbreviations. I was thinking of adding it to our R.I.C. pages for researchers. BTW, my search for an RIC Constable came from a family member who said my husband's ancestor was Police Chief of Dublin. LOL Chris John Olson-Kennedy via wrote: > Another key point that the PSNI museum was able to sort out for me was > the rank. Family lore had passed down the title of "Sargent O'Neill" > for my gg-grandfather, but the records show his highest rank as > constable. The museum was able to tell me that the ranks were changed > in 1883 so that what had been a constable by the old system was a > sargent under the new.

Hi again Jean, Happy to assist. Perhaps the answer to which theory is correct can be found in one of Jim Herlihy's books on the RIC, such as "Royal Irish Constabulary Officers: A Biological Dictionay and Genealogical Guide, 1816-1922". I cannot comment on the age requirements, but I was told this by the PSNI Museum on the height requirement, that the regulations changed over time: The regulation height for admission to the Constabulary during the 19th century was 5' 8" (as in The Constabulary Code Standing Rules and Regulations 1860, 1872 and 1888). The increase in admission height to 5' 9" first appears in the Constabulary Code of 1900. Unfortunately, the above information is *not* contained in another of Mr. Herlihy's books, "The Royal Irish Constabulary: A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men, 1816-1922", which only states that the minimum height was 5'9", except in the case of sons of RIC men, who were accepted at 5'8". The height requirement also confused me as my gg-grandfather was 5'8" but his father was not in the RIC. Another key point that the PSNI museum was able to sort out for me was the rank. Family lore had passed down the title of "Sargent O'Neill" for my gg-grandfather, but the records show his highest rank as constable. The museum was able to tell me that the ranks were changed in 1883 so that what had been a constable by the old system was a sargent under the new. Regards, John On 2015/03/15 04:46 , Jean Bleakney via wrote: > Thanks to all for your thoughts. John, that sounds like a possibility. He was Monaghan-born, but he was 18yrs and five foot eight-and-a-quarter inches at conscription. I'm led to believe that is below the minimum requirements (19yrs, 5' 9") for all except the son of a serving RIC man. So maybe he had a Wicklow parent. Killyfole, likewise if he had a serving father, he might have started out somewhere remote. > Thanks indeedJean > > > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 7:58 PM, Killyfole and District Development Association <gold@fermanaghroots.com> wrote: > > > It is short for Converted, probably where he enrolled and trained. Basically > it is military slang for converting a civilian to a position in the armed > services. > > > > ================================== > > https://www.google.ie/ > ================================== > http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to all for your thoughts. John, that sounds like a possibility. He was Monaghan-born, but he was 18yrs and five foot eight-and-a-quarter inches at conscription. I'm led to believe that is below the minimum requirements (19yrs, 5' 9") for all except the son of a serving RIC man. So maybe he had a Wicklow parent. Killyfole, likewise if he had a serving father, he might have started out somewhere remote. Thanks indeedJean  On Saturday, March 14, 2015 7:58 PM, Killyfole and District Development Association <gold@fermanaghroots.com> wrote: It is short for Converted, probably where he enrolled and trained.  Basically it is military slang for converting a civilian to a position in the armed services.

A bit like the Halls Vi...there were the "Halls of the Hill" and the "Halls of the Hollow" living beside each other... Unrelated, and used to differentiate between them. On 15/03/2015 07:02, Viola Wiggins via wrote: > Linda, > The ref "Father ?? Called these the xxxx xxxxs", I think refers to the nickname of that branch of the family. This subject has been discussed many times. Where there are a number of families with the same surname living in an area, each family will have a nickname by which they are known to locals. > I think that is what Father XXXX ? is referring to. > Viola

The likes of that is handy to know when looking for them in Ireland depending on which line one is researching so on can at least create the likes of a s/sheet with a column for religion and then look at Marriage Agreement as there were most probably agreements, plus Wills/Deeds/Inheritances etc....AND HELPS THE HELPERS!! Fr Jim Burtchaell would have had access to a lot more records than memebers of "the Public" so if he couldn't sort them then who can? One also has to take into account the paranoia of some families where daughter married and the Groom took on her Surname... then their sons married and took on the name of another family. So if Mr A married Miss B he became Mr B... then their son married Miss C and became Mr C.. whereas if they hadn't been so up themselves they would have been a line of Mr A over generations. Similarly there may be Marriage Agreements where one had to change their religion from RC to C of I for example.... Certainly without knowing their religion here in Ireland how would one even try to sort them out? Where would one start if they just had a list of names? Religion is the Filter to use to at least get them lined up back in time in order to find the connection, if any. What they did outside Ireland is irrelevant to finding them IN IRELAND. DH On 15/03/2015 01:55, Linda Ford wrote: > The Burtchaells of Co. Kilkenny, those styled by Fr Jim Burtchaell in > his published genealogy as the Leinster Burtchaells, were staunchly C of > I. HOWEVER, there was and still is a line of Burtchaells, living cheek > to jowl with the C of I Burtchaells around Graiguenamanagh, who are RC. > Fr Jim styled them the Clohastia Burtchaells. (We're still trying to > find the connection between the two, because there MUST be one.)

Linda, The ref "Father ?? Called these the xxxx xxxxs", I think refers to the nickname of that branch of the family. This subject has been discussed many times. Where there are a number of families with the same surname living in an area, each family will have a nickname by which they are known to locals. I think that is what Father XXXX ? is referring to. Viola

The Burtchaells of Co. Kilkenny, those styled by Fr Jim Burtchaell in his published genealogy as the Leinster Burtchaells, were staunchly C of I.  HOWEVER, there was and still is a line of Burtchaells, living cheek to jowl with the C of I Burtchaells around Graiguenamanagh, who are RC.  Fr Jim styled them the Clohastia Burtchaells.  (We're still trying to find the connection between the two, because there MUST be one.) Then these same, staunchly C of I Burtchaell boys, when they immigrated to the new world, mostly married RC girls and the whole damn line converted.  The only Burtchaells who remained C of I are the Canadians, who continued to be Anglican.  You would be hard pressed to find a single Protestant Burtchaell in the USA. And I'm still trying to sort out the religions of the Canadian boys and girls who married into the Canadian Burtchaell families.  I have found Baptists and Wesleyan Methodists in the same family, among the siblings and parents living under the same roof on one census!  Then on the next census, many of them will again have changed religious affiliation, and not just because they eventually married those staunchly Anglican, Canadian Burtchaell women.  I suspect that in Canada they just attended whatever Protestant church was within walking distance!  And then, of course, there is the problem that a lot of these early denominations banded together to form the United Church of Canada.   My great-grandparents joined the United Church, but their son (my grandfather) utterly refused to join and saw himself as Wesleyan Methodist all his life, with no church available to attend, so that if he ever went to church, it was to his wife's Anglican Church. I think the general feeling in Canada has largely and historically been that if you are Protestant, just as long as you are not attending a Catholic church, you're okay.  And I'm sure the reverse has been true, also. Linda Ford On Monday, March 9, 2015 1:43 PM, Dave H via <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> wrote: Indeed I have a Methodist Minister..all his records, g/stone. kids all registered in C of I and as you say the C of I was the established church and where I'd have advised you to look. Their religion in new country is an indicator of what they might have been in Ireland.... Presby in new country most probably Presby in Ireland... RC  in new most probably RC here etc etc... These give clues as to most probable church, g/yard etc in Ireland as a starting point. That's all I'm saying! I used to try to help people by looking up their names while going through Church records for myself... I've asked people to give me everything they had, I emailed them and asked "Is that everything?" and get a "Yes". Upon getting home I'd report which Protestant churches I checked and that I didn't find them only to get this reply.... wait for it wait... I'd get "Oh, why did you look at those Registers, mine were RC"..... UNBELIEVABLE.... ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!! Never ever again!!! On 09/03/2015 20:11, Bonnie Anderson wrote: > It can be confusing to know what religion someone in Ireland was before > the family migrated to Canada.  In Canada, my family were Wesleyan > Methodists.  In Ireland I find them in Church of Ireland registers as > early as 1820.  Once a person like myself (4th generation Canadian) > realizes that C of I was the established church into the 1870's then one > can look there for early records. > However, something that makes me think that they might have been > Methodist in Fermanagh (please correct me if I am wrong) is that the > 1820 marriage in indexed among the Marriage License Bonds. > Another, is that a cousin of mine whose family has lived in Devenish > Parish as early as the 1700s years told me that the people in the > lowland areas of Devenish were mostly Methodist.  A Fallis cousin told > me our family has been Methodist for many years. > Bonnie Anderson > ================================== https://www.google.ie/ ================================== http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is short for Converted, probably where he enrolled and trained. Basically it is military slang for converting a civilian to a position in the armed services. On Saturday 14 March 2015 17:17:40 Jean Bleakney via wrote: > Hello, I've been looking at RIC records on microfilm at PRONI. Does anybody > know what Con'd Co. Wicklow (in the final 'Observations' column) might > mean? The individual in question was pensioned in 1897.ThanksJean > ================================== > > https://www.google.ie/ > ================================== > http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Could con'd be short for continued? Shirley ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Dave H via <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> To: "fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com" <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD RIC records query Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 18:25:09 +0000 If he didn't serve anywhere near Wicklow then the reference to it has me con'd... (confused!) DH

If he didn't serve anywhere near Wicklow then the reference to it has me con'd... (confused!) DH

Thanks, but he didn't serve anywhere near Wicklow. There were several others on the same page with same 'Observation', but different County. Wondering if it refers to some event after service??Jean On Saturday, March 14, 2015 5:38 PM, Dave H via <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> wrote: Constabled?? On 14/03/2015 17:17, Jean Bleakney via wrote: > Hello, I've been looking at RIC records on microfilm at PRONI. Does anybody know what Con'd Co. Wicklow (in the final 'Observations' column) might mean? The individual in question was pensioned in 1897.ThanksJean > ================================== > ================================== https://www.google.ie/ ================================== http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Constabled?? On 14/03/2015 17:17, Jean Bleakney via wrote: > Hello, I've been looking at RIC records on microfilm at PRONI. Does anybody know what Con'd Co. Wicklow (in the final 'Observations' column) might mean? The individual in question was pensioned in 1897.ThanksJean > ================================== >

Hello, I've been looking at RIC records on microfilm at PRONI. Does anybody know what Con'd Co. Wicklow (in the final 'Observations' column) might mean? The individual in question was pensioned in 1897.ThanksJean

Thanks Chris. Was just looking at that this morning... Claire does have great updates on stuff, a lot of people should find it useful. Thanks Claire!! On 14/03/2015 14:46, Christina Hunt via wrote: > Claire Santry has released a neat booklet on sources added for Irish Genealogy > in 2014. The file is a pdf which of course you could print out. > > To check it out go to > http://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2015/03/new-irish-genealogy-records-released-in.html > or > http://goo.gl/5kZfNQ > > Enjoy! > Chris

Hello Jean, My guess is that it stands for "connected". This is important as members of the RIC could not serve in any area where either they or their wife had family, to avoid any conflict of interest. I have a similar record for my great-greandfather, Francis O'Neill, who was from Killyliffer, Country Fermanagh, but in his RIC record it says, "connected in Monaghan", meaning that he had family there. As neither of his two wives were from County Monaghan and he was born in County Fermanagh, this remained a mystery until I discovered the 1917 pension application for his sister Sarah, which shows that the family lived in the townlands of Coraghy and Aghafin, County Monaghan in the 1851 census. Subsequent research proved that a branch of the family continued to live there after 'my' line moved to Killyliffer. So, the fact that your relative never served in County Wicklow because he had family there makes perfect sense. You may now have a whole new place to search for your family! Hope this helps. Regards, John in NC. On 2015/03/14 13:45 , Jean Bleakney via wrote: > Thanks, but he didn't serve anywhere near Wicklow. There were several others on the same page with same 'Observation', but different County. Wondering if it refers to some event after service??Jean > > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 5:38 PM, Dave H via <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Constabled?? > > > > > On 14/03/2015 17:17, Jean Bleakney via wrote: >> Hello, I've been looking at RIC records on microfilm at PRONI. Does anybody know what Con'd Co. Wicklow (in the final 'Observations' column) might mean? The individual in question was pensioned in 1897.ThanksJean >> ================================== >> > ================================== > > https://www.google.ie/ > ================================== > http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ================================== > > https://www.google.ie/ > ================================== > http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Wendy but I was just wondering how Search Fees differ and if anyone has had a search done and if £28 is the norm. DH On 14/03/2015 13:58, wendy stevenson wrote: > There is also freereg.org.uk <http://freereg.org.uk> which has records > that are pre-mandatory registration. > > Wendy

I can go to Library and use their subs to Ancestry, Newspapers etc but it was just the Fees I was wondering about... Would £28 be a standard?? £28 would buy a lot of choc biccies!! Dave On 14/03/2015 13:53, Viola Wiggins wrote: > Dave > I knew the cost of living index rises > BUT looks like the cost of a search is going skywards. > Have you tried www.freebmd.org ? > or www.freecen.org for england and wales transcriptions. > Also look to see if those Parish Records have been transcribed. > It'd be cheaper to take a weeks sub to FMP World. > Viola

Dave I knew the cost of living index rises BUT looks like the cost of a search is going skywards. Have you tried www.freebmd.org ? or www.freecen.org for england and wales transcriptions. Also look to see if those Parish Records have been transcribed. It'd be cheaper to take a weeks sub to FMP World. Viola > Below is an email I got and the search in C of E was £28.. so just > wondering if there is a standard charge in C of E Churches, anyone know?? > > DH --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Just as a matter of interest, there is a standard Fee charged in Ireland, for the Rector's time supervising a search, Searches up to one hour €20 / Stg£12 For each additional hour or part of an hour Euro 20 / Sterling £12. Below is an email I got and the search in C of E was £28.. so just wondering if there is a standard charge in C of E Churches, anyone know?? DH ------------------------------- Dear Mr Hall I could search the ***** Parish Records for a fee of £28 per hour (or part thereof). However I think it likely the records of that age will already be with Suffolk County Records. Best wishes, Revd XXX XXXXXXXX