That's bureaucracy for you, Dave. Grrrr indeed! Dee -----Original Message----- From: fermanagh-gold-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:fermanagh-gold-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dave H via Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2015 1:41 AM To: fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com Subject: FERMANAGH-GOLD Straight answer at last..... Dear Mr Hall, With reference to your enquiry, the abstract will name neither beneficiaries nor bequests. Yours sincerely, Reader Services Division, National Archives, Bishop Street, Dublin 8. --------------------------------------------------- So whatever it is will be useless!! Certainly for anyone ordering what is called 'Document type: Will' it certainly will be disappointing!! What is actually is I haven't a clue but certainly won't be ordering it! DH ================================== https://www.google.ie/ ================================== http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Probably still under Copyright Dee... or try LDS Catholic Convert Rolls, 1703-1838 [LDS microfilm 597103] The Convert Rolls Edited by: Eileen O'Byrne and Anne Chamney The publication in 1981 of the Convert Rolls, edited by Eileen O' Byrne, provided historical researchers with easy access to the main documentary record of those who converted to the Established Church (the Church of Ireland) in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. This new edition of the now out of print 1981 work will be of great interest to genealogists and social and religious historians throughout Ireland. ISBN: 978-1-874280-64-9, PP: xviii + 487 , Cover: Hardback http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/30100249?sid=21105779143331&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3738232 On 25/03/2015 23:51, Dee Byster-Graham via wrote: > Dear Golders, > > Are the 1703-1838 Convert Rolls available to view on line, or only in person > at PRONI or other palce. > > Kindly, > Dee. > > >

Need to look up a few Consumer Laws first and then approach things properly, find the relevant people to complain to. For me it's not so bad but for someone in Oz, US etc sending off for what is described as a Will and then getting whatever it is they are selling is extremely unfair!!! I'm used to Ireland, how things are done... that's how I knew to email them first to ask if they actually had a Will! The person in U.S. finds it unbelievable! Dave On 25/03/2015 23:42, Viola Wiggins wrote: > Dave > I have been a member of the Consumer's Council (Which?) for Forty odd > years, so if an email to them is any good contact me off list with details. > Viola

Well I'm doing stuff for people in US and it's damn embarrassing as I sent them what is CLEARLY described as a Will....grrrrrrrr. UNFORTUNATELY I haven't bought it so now can't take them to Small Claims Court... another grrrrrrrrrr. It most definitely NOT a Will.. not even an abstract of a Will. Trades Description definitely under question! It says Document type = Will, and the definition of a Will is clearly defined. If I pay for a car I want a car... not a windscreen wiper! If I pay for a windscreen wiper I want a wiper.... not a car! If something that is for sale is described as a Will then it has to be one that was Legal and probated but if it is just a Tax receipt then it is not a Will. A Will is a Will! Dave (damn annoyed!!) grrrrrrr..... On 25/03/2015 23:38, Viola Wiggins wrote: > Good for you Dave. Give them a run for their money. BUT > Don't draw blood. > When is a Will not a Will? would be my first question to them. Good > hunting > Vi > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > >

I Know, Dee but there are certain known bodies being tested plus some of the 6th century Spaniards from the Antrim settlement when population of ireland was about 20,000. There were no Irish when it was covered in ice anyway so they had to have come from somewhere.... It is known that over the centuries people from Spain, Morocco etc settled in Ireland plus the Norse, Vikings, Danes.. So who was the first discoverer of Ireland...? probably some Maguire too!!! grrrrrr.... There was the free test offered to anyone worldwide but don't know how many took up the offer.. People get DNA done which shows Viking or Dane or whatever but at least 99% or more are going to get that simply because all the people moved north as ice melted so even in the year 1000 there were many 'nationalities' living, intermarrying or whatever in Ireland.... there were no Irish until people moved into Ireland from wherever. Dave. On 25/03/2015 22:51, Dee Byster-Graham wrote: > Hi Jack and Dave, > > I am surely no expert on dna matters, but am wondering how Norman genes > could be clearly differentiated from Viking. We know that Vikings settled > all along that part of the coast of Europe, and William of Normandy's family > were fourth generation Viking; simply because they spoke French when they > conquered England does not change their dna makeup, although intermarriage > with the local population would change the equation. Much of their 'French' > overlay was a cultural occurrence rather than genetic. > > Very rarely does one hear praise for the wonderful Neolithic peoples who > settled Britain so long ago, who flourished and built a diverse, interesting > civilisation with ingenuity and vigour. > > The fact is, every dna study will give only basic results unless a very > large proportion of the population is tested- and without that extensive > testing purely cultural issues need to be taken into consideration when we > casually examine any civilisation, ancient or modern. > Descending from Dolan and Magauran, two tribes of (hopefully) truly ancient > Ireland, it will be fascinating to study the results of the 'who were the > Irish' study Dave spoke of. > > Kindly, > Dee.

Dave I have been a member of the Consumer's Council (Which?) for Forty odd years, so if an email to them is any good contact me off list with details. Viola --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Good for you Dave. Give them a run for their money. BUT Don't draw blood. When is a Will not a Will? would be my first question to them. Good hunting Vi --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Oh yes.. fully documented, it was part of the Government's budget after all. DH On 25/03/2015 20:46, caiside@comcast.net wrote: > Any chance they kept records of who took advantage of this scheme? > > Janet C > > On 3/25/15 5:13 AM, Breda Hall wrote: >> Over 1 million Irish were "settled" in order to counteract the numbers >> of French and also the relieve landlords of poor Irish tenants. There >> was a Fund set up in London to assist the Irish who wanted to go. > >

On 25/03/2015 19:31, Jack Fallin via wrote: > I’ve read the Daily Mail article and I can almost guarantee it’s garbled the basic study. It talks about large parts of England having “French” but not “Norman” DNA — well, the Celts in England and Ireland quite clearly came from somewhere else, and the great majority would have come from France and, to a lesser extent, Spain — arriving atop an existing neolithic population that no one seems quite sure of. So the discussion about a “Celtic Myth” seems wildly overstated. I subscribe to NATURE and will advise as to what is really said when I get a chance to read it. > > Jack Fallin The current "who were the Irish" study results should be interesting with them taking DNA samples from 6th Century onwards.. Not sure how many bodies they are testing. DH

It's MORE than that Dee... describing it as a Will first of all is DISGRACEFUL!!!! Trying to rip people off for something that is useless.. It is clearly described as a Will and certainly, as far as I'm concerned, certainly in Breach of the Trades Description Act!!! One can't sell something that is clearly not a Will, while describing it as a Will!!! Time to read up on EU Laws now... grrrrr!! Dave On 25/03/2015 18:25, Dee Byster-Graham wrote: > That's bureaucracy for you, Dave. > > Grrrr indeed! > > Dee > > -----Original Message----- > From: fermanagh-gold-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:fermanagh-gold-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dave H via > Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2015 1:41 AM > To: fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com > Subject: FERMANAGH-GOLD Straight answer at last..... > > > Dear Mr Hall, > > With reference to your enquiry, the abstract will name neither beneficiaries > nor bequests. > > Yours sincerely, > > Reader Services Division, > > National Archives, > > Bishop Street, > > Dublin 8. > > --------------------------------------------------- > > So whatever it is will be useless!! > > Certainly for anyone ordering what is called 'Document type: Will' it > certainly will be disappointing!! > > What is actually is I haven't a clue but certainly won't be ordering it! > > > DH

Any chance they kept records of who took advantage of this scheme? Janet C On 3/25/15 5:13 AM, Breda Hall wrote: > Over 1 million Irish were "settled" in order to counteract the numbers > of French and also the relieve landlords of poor Irish tenants. There > was a Fund set up in London to assist the Irish who wanted to go.

Dear Mr Hall, With reference to your enquiry, the abstract will name neither beneficiaries nor bequests. Yours sincerely, Reader Services Division, National Archives, Bishop Street, Dublin 8. --------------------------------------------------- So whatever it is will be useless!! Certainly for anyone ordering what is called 'Document type: Will' it certainly will be disappointing!! What is actually is I haven't a clue but certainly won't be ordering it! DH

You'd think NAI would be able to say what is what...... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Am I going to get names???? DH ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent to NAI. Thanks *******, will try to figure out if it is worth getting or not as I need names of inheritors and not sure if this will name them or not. Regards Dave Hall. On 25/03/2015 11:38, ******** wrote: > Dear Mr Hall, > > With reference to your enquiry, the reference which you have provided > refers to the abstract of a will compiled for the purposes of payment of death duties. > > A copy of the abstract will cost € 15.00. > > Yours sincerely, > >

I know all that Vi, I just need to know if anyone has got one of these and if the inheritors are named. Dave. On 25/03/2015 13:42, Viola Wiggins wrote: > Dave > It just might be a mistranscription. Abstracts usually name the person > that the Grant of Admisistration was granted to. It could be a > Solicitor, or the actual person with claification of relationship. There > should be a person named and their qualification grounds. The widow, > sister of the deceased, or John Bloggs, farmer. > Usually if there is an actual Will available it will read > "Probate of the Will of XXX of xxx etc---" > Otherwise it states "Letters of Administration of the personal estate of > XXX of xxx etc---" >> Just need to know if anyone has got one of these and if the inheritors >> are named.

Dave It just might be a mistranscription. Abstracts usually name the person that the Grant of Admisistration was granted to. It could be a Solicitor, or the actual person with claification of relationship. There should be a person named and their qualification grounds. The widow, sister of the deceased, or John Bloggs, farmer. Usually if there is an actual Will available it will read "Probate of the Will of XXX of xxx etc---" Otherwise it states "Letters of Administration of the personal estate of XXX of xxx etc---" > Just need to know if anyone has got one of these and if the inheritors > are named. > > > DH > > On 25/03/2015 12:31, Viola Wiggins wrote: --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Mary Ann SMYTH, nee Bustard, b.1830 dau of John + Catherine Bustard Lisnacloon, Termonamongan, Omagh, Tyrone applied for Pension. not sure is she got it or not but if C of I then there are the 13 huge volumes of Ledgers in NAI where B.D.M's were recorded if information other than/in addition to Census returns were sought. Often these list Parents/Siblings etc sent in from their Parish and many of these registers were burnt in Dublin so these "Parish" extracts are often all that is left for many Parishes. These also exist for people who were not on the 1841/51 Census due to being out of the Country on Census nights so they could prove who they were when applying. I don't think RC B.D.M's were accepted or recorded or not, or if it was only the C of I ones with them being the only recognized record keepers... DH On 25/03/2015 12:09, caiside via wrote: > Janet, >>Thank you for this. I saw a posting for James Bustard saying he came >>from Frevagh townland in Devenish parish in Fermanagh. I have not been >>able to track his family yet as, they could be a close relation. My >>Bustard family lived in Frevagh townland. Perhaps none of them live in >>Scottsburg, Virginia anymore. >>No Bustard matches with y-dna yet. In fact, no close matches at all! >>Anne in Ottawa

Yes I know exactly where it was granted.. Armagh. Will is not on PRONI. nor mentioned there. The only place it's mentioned is NAI, it lists it as a Will, which it is not. So just need to know if anyone knows if inheritors are named on "the abstract of a will compiled for the purposes of payment of death duties....." Why they list it as a Will when it is clearly not is beyond me!! A couple more I'm looking at are listed as abstracts. There was a Will, it was administered but are the inheritors named on this type of abstract as to their taxes or if it just a total of taxes due. Just need to know if anyone has got one of these and if the inheritors are named. DH On 25/03/2015 12:31, Viola Wiggins wrote: > > Just a thought. > If the Abstract is available it should say where it was processed. > Londonderry, Armagh, Belfast or Dublin or even somewhere else. > I would now search www.proni.gov.uk Wills Calendars for that Will using > the full name and date to narrow the field. . > The extract that was processed may have been for part of the deceased > Estate in Rep Ireland which must have qualified the criteria where Death > Duties were involved. The actual Will could have been administered > anywhere. > In some cases Abstracts of Wills may exist while the originals may have > been destroyed in THE fire in Dublin, OR where Letters of Administration > only exist, because there was no actual Will to Administer. >

Janet, thank you for the Cleaner link. Great search results, maiden name, parents, mother's maiden name and place of birth... WHY, didn't Ireland list all those details...sigh! Carole. > From the Huntingdon (Quebec) Gleaner: > See more Gleaner extracts here: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~qchuntin/gleaner/

Thanks, Carole, this is a great link. I have passed it on to others in my genealogy group. Eilish On 25/03/2015 9:35 AM, CARELL via wrote: > From the Scotch Irish list, an interesting link if you ignore > 'the famous people' trivia.... > >> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3000998/Are-Welsh-truest-Brits-English-genomes-contain-German-French-DNA-Romans-left-no-trace.html#ixzz3U >> >> Carole. > > ================================== > > https://www.google.ie/ > ================================== > http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I’ve read the Daily Mail article and I can almost guarantee it’s garbled the basic study. It talks about large parts of England having “French” but not “Norman” DNA — well, the Celts in England and Ireland quite clearly came from somewhere else, and the great majority would have come from France and, to a lesser extent, Spain — arriving atop an existing neolithic population that no one seems quite sure of. So the discussion about a “Celtic Myth” seems wildly overstated. I subscribe to NATURE and will advise as to what is really said when I get a chance to read it. Jack Fallin On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:18 PM, fermanagh-gold-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > > 11. DNA maps/locations/links! (CARELL) > 12. Re: DNA maps/locations/links! (Dee Byster-Graham) > > Message: 1 > Da > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------te: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 08:46:10 +0000 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 09:35:42 +1100 > From: CARELL <carell@bigpond.com.au> > Subject: FERMANAGH-GOLD DNA maps/locations/links! > To: fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <535881BC-9AEB-4937-91FE-D1BB7E1BD9C8@bigpond.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > From the Scotch Irish list, an interesting link if you ignore > 'the famous people' trivia.... > >> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3000998/Are-Welsh-truest-Brits-English-genomes-contain-German-French-DNA-Romans-left-no-trace.html#ixzz3U >> >> Carole. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 09:14:18 +1000 > From: "Dee Byster-Graham" <deebg@bigpond.net.au> > Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD DNA maps/locations/links! > To: "'CARELL'" <carell@bigpond.com.au>, <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <001a01d06688$40e354d0$c2a9fe70$@bigpond.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thank you for posting the link, Carole, > > Very interesting data, shows northern Ireland dna same as western Scotland > as we would expect. > It was believed that Celticity is cultural rather than dna related, te > study appears to prove this. > Same would be true of Roman influence - cultural rather than genetic. > No less impacting, all the same. > > Kindly > Dee. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fermanagh-gold-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:fermanagh-gold-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CARELL via > Sent: Wednesday, 25 March 2015 8:36 AM > To: fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com > Subject: FERMANAGH-GOLD DNA maps/locations/links! > > From the Scotch Irish list, an interesting link if you ignore > 'the famous people' trivia.... > >> > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3000998/Are-Welsh-truest-Brit > s-English-genomes-contain-German-French-DNA-Romans-left-no-trace.html#ixzz3U >> >> Carole. > > > ================================== >