TEAM F-G What a fascinating, thought provoking discussion. How great is it that we have Scholars like JC, DH, VW, DA and others on our 'Staff'. And, JC was just on a 'fact finding' mission in Orkney a few months ago. Brilliant !! Grand Day to All Rob, humbled in MA 'Shire's

Speaking of distances that people traveled, here's an illuminating article I learned about on the County Down list: http://forgottenjourneys.blogspot.com.au/2016/03/fair-day-triangles-or-where-did-your.html John in NC On 2016/04/02 04:53 , Dave H. via wrote: > But people didn't have to attend their Parish Church, so where they > lived as such is irrelevant... > > I can show you plenty of records where people attended a Church in next > Parish or even the next, going back to early 1800's. > > Where I live the RC Church is on the bank of the river, the river is > Parish boundary... the next Church is 5 miles away OR 3 miles away over > another bridge but in another County! > > The people on opposite side of river don't travel 5 miles to the Church > in their Parish or 3 miles to the one in another county! > > You then have a couple who marry, maybe get land to lease 3 mile away in > another Parish, do they get children baptised in that Parish.... or the > 'home' Parish? > > > As to your questions..... the likes of Cathriona at the Library would be > who to ask, she's the County Historian! > > DH > > > > > On 02/04/2016 08:01, [email protected] wrote: >> FERMANAGH-GOLD Parish of Roslea >> To:<[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> This is going over ?old ground? maybe, but it arises now because many pre-1862 church records of baptisms and marriages did not record the residents? townlands. Only the (church) parish e.g. Tydavnet, Roslea, Clones was noted. So the (church) parish boundary is important to trying to figure out where the families were living at the time. This is separate to the question of ?civil parishes? in which the constituent townlands are well defined and understood. >> >> My question is: >> - In the 1800s, were any Monaghan townlands within the Roslea Parish boundary? Is yes, which ones? >> - In the 1800s were any townlands in that area of Fermanagh/Monaghan switched from one (church) Parish to another, e.g. from Roslea parish to Tydavnet or vice versa? >> >> I have tried to find some references that might cover this with little success. Any suggestions are welcome. >> >> James > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ========================= > https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Off topic ?????????????? It is discussions like this that put the "Gold" in Fermanagh-Gold! Slán, Marge in Southern California Searching: Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, O'Connor in Kerry and Connecticut Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut Lynch in Kildare, Limerick and Connecticut Walsh, Stackpole, Garry, Donovan, Doyle, Clowney/Clooney, King in Kildare | From: "fermanagh-gold" <[email protected]> | To: "Bruce Graham" <[email protected]>, "fermanagh-gold" | <[email protected]> | Sent: Saturday, April 2, 2016 6:08:22 AM | Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? | Dee, | Glad no one is thinking this little side-trip into Pictland is off | topic. :-) | Here's what I just read on the orkneyjar link that David sent: | " Theories abound, although these days it is generally accepted that the | Picts were not, as was once believed, a new race, but were simply the | descendents of the indigenous Iron Age people of northern Scotland." | Also here http://www.ancient.eu/picts/ says | "Although it was accepted history in the past to date the arrival of the | Picts in Scotland to sometime shortly before their mention in Roman | history, or to claim a "Pictish Invasion", modern scholarship offers a | much earlier date with no full-scale invasion. According to the/Collins | Encyclopedia of Scotland/, "the Picts did not 'arrive' - in a sense they | had always been there, for they were the descendants of the first people | to inhabit what eventually became Scotland" (775). Historian Stuart | McHardy supports this claim,***writing | <http://www.ancient.eu/writing/>**that "the Picts were in fact the | indigenous population of this part of the world" by the time the Romans | arrived in Britain (32). They originally came from**Scythia | <http://www.ancient.eu/scythia/>***(Scandinavia), settled first in | Orkney, and then migrated south." | I bet Cunliffe's book _Britain Begins_ would shed light. | Janet C | On 4/1/16 5:06 PM, Bruce Graham wrote: | > -----Original Message----- From: Dee Byster-Graham via | > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 4:43 PM | > To: 'DSA2003' ; [email protected] | > Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? | > Hi Folks, | > Thank you all so much for this discussion of the origin complexities | > of Pictish, and all related to this area. | > The whole subject has puzzled me for many years - language, physical | > appearance, origins etc. | > For what it is worth, I have always leaned towards the idea that | > Pictish language was an ancient form of Q-Celtic mainly because of the | > Ogham script. Is the former belief still in vogue that the Picts | > invaded Britain at an indefinable time in pre-history? I have not read | > much about their origins lately, but still puzzling over the real | > difference in the physical characteristics of my Scottish Mitchells. | > Despite being descended on the male side from the Norman invaders in | > 1066 ( Vikings) the differences are huge - small all around 5- 5ft | > 2ins in height, slight builds, almost black eyes and hair with very | > fair skin, small feet and hands etc. So different in appearance from | > the Orkney Viking SNOW family of Ireland and the original Irish of the | > Dolan, Magauran clans. | > Also puzzle about the role the ancient Britons played, we must all | > have that genetic in our makeups! | > Were in fact the Picts ancient Britons in residence from pre-Neolithic | > times??? | > Please keep the conversation going - it's absolutely fascinating! | > David, thank you also for the interesting links to the newly | > discovered Viking sites in America - that may very well put a lot of | > cats amongst the pigeons :) | > Kindly, | > Dee. | ========================= | https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to | [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the | quotes in the subject and the body of the message

James, I WISH all of the church records had townlands on them, but I really do not think that folks paid any attention to boundaries. My folks lived in Legaduff in Fermanagh, not far from the Cavan border and Swanlinbar. On the ships records they ALL put that they were from Swanlinbar in Cavan. That was the closest town - where they shopped and where they went to church, rather than Kinawley (both churches were part of Kinawley parish) which was further away. Slán, Marge in Southern California Searching: Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, O'Connor in Kerry and Connecticut Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut Lynch in Kildare, Limerick and Connecticut Walsh, Stackpole, Garry, Donovan, Doyle, Clowney/Clooney, King in Kildare | From: "fermanagh-gold" <[email protected]> | To: "fermanagh-gold" <[email protected]> | Sent: Friday, April 1, 2016 12:00:06 PM | Subject: FERMANAGH-GOLD Parish of Roslea | This is going over ‘old ground’ maybe, but it arises now because many pre-1862 | church records of baptisms and marriages did not record the residents’ | townlands. Only the (church) parish e.g. Tydavnet, Roslea, Clones was noted. So | the (church) parish boundary is important to trying to figure out where the | families were living at the time. This is separate to the question of ‘civil | parishes’ in which the constituent townlands are well defined and understood. | My question is: | - In the 1800s, were any Monaghan townlands within the Roslea Parish boundary? | Is yes, which ones? | - In the 1800s were any townlands in that area of Fermanagh/Monaghan switched | from one (church) Parish to another, e.g. from Roslea parish to Tydavnet or | vice versa? | I have tried to find some references that might cover this with little success. | Any suggestions are welcome. | James | ========================= | https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to | [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the | quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Dee and Y'All Golders ! I too am very interested in the Picts, who they were , where they came from; what their language was like to listen to, and what sort of Music they played and sang to. When you think about it ....they were "The Caledonians " to the Romans, and early in the Roman Invasion , The Picts were just about the only " Bunch" who challenged them. As I understand it, the Britons from further South, had already " thrown ion the towel", and in fact a lot fought on the side of the Romans.Notice I used "Bunch" , not "Tribe " or "Clan", since from what I read , "The Picts" were a conglomeration of separate , and Independent tribes. I would like to see a whole lot more research done into Pictish History....because, lets face it , there must be MILLIONS of us today, who are descended from them. I would like to be able to do a study of :- Facial Characteristics; traditional songs/music; and "traditions", as they are today, in the areas known to once have been Pictish...."Old habits die hard " , don't they reckon ? EXAMPLE:- The West Country way of saying "Yes", or "is that right ?"....."Oh arrgh !".....I wonder how many thousands of years that has drifted over ? I just did a Google on the line :- Pictish Family and Placenames to be found in Scotland today".....all sorts came up......which I hav'nt taken the time to read (yet !)...The two Sites which came up under Wikipedia seem to contain many "References " which , being Highlighted in blue, are " Searchable". Look forward to reading more comments on this subject , when your time and energy allow ! Cheers the 'noo n'all, Bruce Graham -----Original Message----- From: Dee Byster-Graham via Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 4:43 PM To: 'DSA2003' ; [email protected] Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Hi Folks, Thank you all so much for this discussion of the origin complexities of Pictish, and all related to this area. The whole subject has puzzled me for many years - language, physical appearance, origins etc. For what it is worth, I have always leaned towards the idea that Pictish language was an ancient form of Q-Celtic mainly because of the Ogham script. Is the former belief still in vogue that the Picts invaded Britain at an indefinable time in pre-history? I have not read much about their origins lately, but still puzzling over the real difference in the physical characteristics of my Scottish Mitchells. Despite being descended on the male side from the Norman invaders in 1066 ( Vikings) the differences are huge - small all around 5- 5ft 2ins in height, slight builds, almost black eyes and hair with very fair skin, small feet and hands etc. So different in appearance from the Orkney Viking SNOW family of Ireland and the original Irish of the Dolan, Magauran clans. Also puzzle about the role the ancient Britons played, we must all have that genetic in our makeups! Were in fact the Picts ancient Britons in residence from pre-Neolithic times??? Please keep the conversation going - it's absolutely fascinating! David, thank you also for the interesting links to the newly discovered Viking sites in America - that may very well put a lot of cats amongst the pigeons :) Kindly, Dee. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of DSA2003 via Sent: Friday, 1 April 2016 10:40 AM To: Janet Cassidy Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Sigurd Towrie has a useful article on his Orkneyjar website on the subject. < http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/picts/language.htm > Although it’s not settled beyond doubt, it’s generally thought that the Pictish language is Celtic. As Sigurd’s article points out the the Pictish writing system originated in Ireland. David From: Janet Cassidy Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 8:18 AM To: DSA2003 Cc: [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Is it thought that the Picts spoke a Celtic language? Janet Sent from my iPad On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:00 PM, DSA2003 <[email protected]> wrote: G’day Janet The Picts who were the inhabitants of Orkney before the Vikings, are generally regarded as a Celtic people. But who were the people who built the Ness of Brodgar Temple, the village of Skara Brae etc, some 5,000 years ago ago is not known. However, the point I was trying to make yesterday with my reference to the Ness of Brodgar and the “origins of the Irish” article, was that new archaeological research is up-ending previous ideas as to direction in which culture flowed in ancient times. Previously, it was taken as a given that things developed in the Mediterranean and moved northwards through Europe. But now we’re seeing that there were great goings-on in the north-west of Europe in prehistoric times and the cultural influences were moving southwards. One line of speculation for the demise of the Ness of Brodgar temple is the advent of the Bronze Age leading to the centre of political/religious power moving south, closer to the sources of tin (Cornwall) and copper (Cork and Kerry) which are needed to make bronze. Back to the Vikings: there is news today that what appears to be another Viking site has been found in Newfoundland, several hundred miles further south from L’Anse aux Meadows which was discovered in the 1960s. < http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/ > < http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/science/vikings-archaeology-north-america-newfoundland.html?_r=0 > David Armstrong Maylands Western Australia From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:49 AM To: DSA2003 ; [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? LOVE reading about the stuff on Orkney. I was just there this past September. Unfortunately the excavation at Ness of Brodgar was closed for the season, so I'll just have to go back! However the Orkney islanders are/were not Celts. They never spoke a Celtic language. Instead they were influenced by Vikings and Picts. Janet C This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ========================= https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ========================= https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

But people didn't have to attend their Parish Church, so where they lived as such is irrelevant... I can show you plenty of records where people attended a Church in next Parish or even the next, going back to early 1800's. Where I live the RC Church is on the bank of the river, the river is Parish boundary... the next Church is 5 miles away OR 3 miles away over another bridge but in another County! The people on opposite side of river don't travel 5 miles to the Church in their Parish or 3 miles to the one in another county! You then have a couple who marry, maybe get land to lease 3 mile away in another Parish, do they get children baptised in that Parish.... or the 'home' Parish? As to your questions..... the likes of Cathriona at the Library would be who to ask, she's the County Historian! DH On 02/04/2016 08:01, [email protected] wrote: > FERMANAGH-GOLD Parish of Roslea > To:<[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > This is going over ?old ground? maybe, but it arises now because many pre-1862 church records of baptisms and marriages did not record the residents? townlands. Only the (church) parish e.g. Tydavnet, Roslea, Clones was noted. So the (church) parish boundary is important to trying to figure out where the families were living at the time. This is separate to the question of ?civil parishes? in which the constituent townlands are well defined and understood. > > My question is: > - In the 1800s, were any Monaghan townlands within the Roslea Parish boundary? Is yes, which ones? > - In the 1800s were any townlands in that area of Fermanagh/Monaghan switched from one (church) Parish to another, e.g. from Roslea parish to Tydavnet or vice versa? > > I have tried to find some references that might cover this with little success. Any suggestions are welcome. > > James --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Dee, Glad no one is thinking this little side-trip into Pictland is off topic. :-) Here's what I just read on the orkneyjar link that David sent: " Theories abound, although these days it is generally accepted that the Picts were not, as was once believed, a new race, but were simply the descendents of the indigenous Iron Age people of northern Scotland." Also here http://www.ancient.eu/picts/ says "Although it was accepted history in the past to date the arrival of the Picts in Scotland to sometime shortly before their mention in Roman history, or to claim a "Pictish Invasion", modern scholarship offers a much earlier date with no full-scale invasion. According to the/Collins Encyclopedia of Scotland/, "the Picts did not 'arrive' - in a sense they had always been there, for they were the descendants of the first people to inhabit what eventually became Scotland" (775). Historian Stuart McHardy supports this claim,***writing <http://www.ancient.eu/writing/>**that "the Picts were in fact the indigenous population of this part of the world" by the time the Romans arrived in Britain (32). They originally came from**Scythia <http://www.ancient.eu/scythia/>***(Scandinavia), settled first in Orkney, and then migrated south." I bet Cunliffe's book _Britain Begins_ would shed light. Janet C On 4/1/16 5:06 PM, Bruce Graham wrote: > -----Original Message----- From: Dee Byster-Graham via > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 4:43 PM > To: 'DSA2003' ; [email protected] > Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? > > Hi Folks, > > Thank you all so much for this discussion of the origin complexities > of Pictish, and all related to this area. > The whole subject has puzzled me for many years - language, physical > appearance, origins etc. > For what it is worth, I have always leaned towards the idea that > Pictish language was an ancient form of Q-Celtic mainly because of the > Ogham script. Is the former belief still in vogue that the Picts > invaded Britain at an indefinable time in pre-history? I have not read > much about their origins lately, but still puzzling over the real > difference in the physical characteristics of my Scottish Mitchells. > Despite being descended on the male side from the Norman invaders in > 1066 ( Vikings) the differences are huge - small all around 5- 5ft > 2ins in height, slight builds, almost black eyes and hair with very > fair skin, small feet and hands etc. So different in appearance from > the Orkney Viking SNOW family of Ireland and the original Irish of the > Dolan, Magauran clans. > > Also puzzle about the role the ancient Britons played, we must all > have that genetic in our makeups! > Were in fact the Picts ancient Britons in residence from pre-Neolithic > times??? > > Please keep the conversation going - it's absolutely fascinating! > > David, thank you also for the interesting links to the newly > discovered Viking sites in America - that may very well put a lot of > cats amongst the pigeons :) > Kindly, > Dee.

Val, I am talking about the Irish records on Find My Past World (which should be the same as FMP Ireland). I agree that in the past I have never been able to find anything there, but now I am in love with them! Today I found 3 or 4 possibilities of a baptism for my great-grandmother, Nora (Lynch) Fee in Limerick. The only clue I had was that the Irish census showed her place of birth as Limerick and her age. But where in Limerick? Today I just put in Nora Lynch, Limerick, Born 1860 +/- 5 years. I got about 10 results and was able to eliminate half because of names that have never reappeared in this family again such as Michael and William. I was focusing on parents names John and Nora based on the naming pattern AND the fact that I believe I found her parents in CT, but I need to prove them. So now I have possible maiden names for the mother I think to be hers. Now, if I can find a date of death and get her death certificate (and it matches one of these) I will have the right family. One of the records even gave the parents' parents' names! If that is the one, I will be dancing a jig! I think I still remember how. Here is what worked for me. First, sign in with your FREE account BEFORE doing and searches (otherwise you will need to repeat the search). Look on the left side to make certain that you are searching IRELAND records. You can also narrow it more by selecting BIRTHS, MARRIAGES, & DEATHS. You will still get other results, such a civil births, marriages and deaths; just be sure to only click on the “Parish Registers” results to avoid getting the option to upgrade. Hope this helps, Slán, Marge in Southern California Searching: Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, O'Connor in Kerry and Connecticut Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut Lynch in Kildare, Limerick and Connecticut Walsh, Stackpole, Garry, Donovan, Doyle, Clowney/Clooney, King in Kildare | From: "fermanagh-gold" <[email protected]> | To: "fermanagh-gold" <[email protected]> | Sent: Friday, April 1, 2016 2:56:15 AM | Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Find My Past | Hi Marge (and Cliff and anyone that can help)Are you talking about FMP or | FMPIreland? I joined FMPIreland when it first started but they did not have any | records that helped me at all so I stopped using it. Last month I tried to look | up the NLI RC indexed records that are free on FMP but could not get the search | engine to show up records I KNEW were there. Is there a secret to searching on | FMP? Or is it just me being stupid? Ancestry does annoy me but I look at the | (dreadful) family trees for clues and work from there, which can give new leads | sometimes.Val Mc | From: Marge in SoCal <[email protected]> | [FMP] is a Godsend! ... I found ALL of the Stackpoles (and variations) in the | Dublin records and transcribed them all into my database. | Sl?n, | Marge in Southern California | ========================= | https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to | [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the | quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello James, I have also had similar thoughts about how various boundaries changed over time. I *believe* (i.e. I'm not 100% sure) that I read that the the RC Parish of Roslea split off from the RC Parish of Clones in the mid-1800's. I haven't been able to find any maps showing this, but what I find startling is that all of the maps I can find online or in books don't correctly show the boundaries of the RC Parish of Clones with respect to St. Macartans/Aughadrumsee which is west of Roslea. Thus, you have an island of the RC Parish of Clones that's not corrected to the rest. The parish website clearly shows this to be the case: http://www.clonesparish.com/ As for the RC Parish of Roslea, I cannot find a website for them, but I do find a listing for them under the RC Diocese of Clogher: http://www.clogherdiocese.ie/parishes/. As you can see there, the list also includes an RC church across the border in Magherarney,Smithboro, County Monaghan. It's too bad that the Clogher website doesn't include the names of the churches themselves, but I found that information here: http://www.catholicireland.net/mass-times/?county=Co.%20Fermanagh http://www.catholicireland.net/mass-times/?county=Co.%20Monaghan Maybe one day there will be an interactive map that can show the various overlapping boundaries between the various political and religious borders and how they have changed over time. That would indeed be very handy. Regards, John in NC On 2016/04/01 15:00 , James Mullan via wrote: > This is going over ‘old ground’ maybe, but it arises now because many pre-1862 church records of baptisms and marriages did not record the residents’ townlands. Only the (church) parish e.g. Tydavnet, Roslea, Clones was noted. So the (church) parish boundary is important to trying to figure out where the families were living at the time. This is separate to the question of ‘civil parishes’ in which the constituent townlands are well defined and understood. > > My question is: > - In the 1800s, were any Monaghan townlands within the Roslea Parish boundary? Is yes, which ones? > - In the 1800s were any townlands in that area of Fermanagh/Monaghan switched from one (church) Parish to another, e.g. from Roslea parish to Tydavnet or vice versa? > > I have tried to find some references that might cover this with little success. Any suggestions are welcome. > > James > > > > ========================= > https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is going over ‘old ground’ maybe, but it arises now because many pre-1862 church records of baptisms and marriages did not record the residents’ townlands. Only the (church) parish e.g. Tydavnet, Roslea, Clones was noted. So the (church) parish boundary is important to trying to figure out where the families were living at the time. This is separate to the question of ‘civil parishes’ in which the constituent townlands are well defined and understood. My question is: - In the 1800s, were any Monaghan townlands within the Roslea Parish boundary? Is yes, which ones? - In the 1800s were any townlands in that area of Fermanagh/Monaghan switched from one (church) Parish to another, e.g. from Roslea parish to Tydavnet or vice versa? I have tried to find some references that might cover this with little success. Any suggestions are welcome. James

Hi Folks, Thank you all so much for this discussion of the origin complexities of Pictish, and all related to this area. The whole subject has puzzled me for many years - language, physical appearance, origins etc. For what it is worth, I have always leaned towards the idea that Pictish language was an ancient form of Q-Celtic mainly because of the Ogham script. Is the former belief still in vogue that the Picts invaded Britain at an indefinable time in pre-history? I have not read much about their origins lately, but still puzzling over the real difference in the physical characteristics of my Scottish Mitchells. Despite being descended on the male side from the Norman invaders in 1066 ( Vikings) the differences are huge - small all around 5- 5ft 2ins in height, slight builds, almost black eyes and hair with very fair skin, small feet and hands etc. So different in appearance from the Orkney Viking SNOW family of Ireland and the original Irish of the Dolan, Magauran clans. Also puzzle about the role the ancient Britons played, we must all have that genetic in our makeups! Were in fact the Picts ancient Britons in residence from pre-Neolithic times??? Please keep the conversation going - it's absolutely fascinating! David, thank you also for the interesting links to the newly discovered Viking sites in America - that may very well put a lot of cats amongst the pigeons :) Kindly, Dee. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of DSA2003 via Sent: Friday, 1 April 2016 10:40 AM To: Janet Cassidy Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Sigurd Towrie has a useful article on his Orkneyjar website on the subject. < http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/picts/language.htm > Although it’s not settled beyond doubt, it’s generally thought that the Pictish language is Celtic. As Sigurd’s article points out the the Pictish writing system originated in Ireland. David From: Janet Cassidy Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 8:18 AM To: DSA2003 Cc: [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Is it thought that the Picts spoke a Celtic language? Janet Sent from my iPad On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:00 PM, DSA2003 <[email protected]> wrote: G’day Janet The Picts who were the inhabitants of Orkney before the Vikings, are generally regarded as a Celtic people. But who were the people who built the Ness of Brodgar Temple, the village of Skara Brae etc, some 5,000 years ago ago is not known. However, the point I was trying to make yesterday with my reference to the Ness of Brodgar and the “origins of the Irish” article, was that new archaeological research is up-ending previous ideas as to direction in which culture flowed in ancient times. Previously, it was taken as a given that things developed in the Mediterranean and moved northwards through Europe. But now we’re seeing that there were great goings-on in the north-west of Europe in prehistoric times and the cultural influences were moving southwards. One line of speculation for the demise of the Ness of Brodgar temple is the advent of the Bronze Age leading to the centre of political/religious power moving south, closer to the sources of tin (Cornwall) and copper (Cork and Kerry) which are needed to make bronze. Back to the Vikings: there is news today that what appears to be another Viking site has been found in Newfoundland, several hundred miles further south from L’Anse aux Meadows which was discovered in the 1960s. < http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/ > < http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/science/vikings-archaeology-north-america-newfoundland.html?_r=0 > David Armstrong Maylands Western Australia From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:49 AM To: DSA2003 ; [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? LOVE reading about the stuff on Orkney. I was just there this past September. Unfortunately the excavation at Ness of Brodgar was closed for the season, so I'll just have to go back! However the Orkney islanders are/were not Celts. They never spoke a Celtic language. Instead they were influenced by Vikings and Picts. Janet C This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ========================= https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, David. It's very informative. Someday I will get all this early origin stuff straight in my head.... so much I don't know. :-( Janet C. Sigurd Towrie has a useful article on his Orkneyjar website on the subject. < http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/picts/language.htm > Although it’s not settled beyond doubt, it’s generally thought that the Pictish language is Celtic. As Sigurd’s article points out the the Pictish writing system originated in Ireland. David

    Hi Marge (and Cliff and anyone that can help)Are you talking about FMP or FMPIreland? I joined FMPIreland when it first started but they did not have any records that helped me at all so I stopped using it. Last month I tried to look up the NLI RC indexed records that are free on FMP but could not get the search engine to show up records I KNEW were there. Is there a secret to searching on FMP? Or is it just me being stupid? Ancestry does annoy me but I look at the (dreadful) family trees for clues and work from there, which can give new leads sometimes.Val Mc From: Marge in SoCal <[email protected]> [FMP] is a Godsend! ... I found ALL of the Stackpoles (and variations) in the Dublin records and transcribed them all into my database. Sl?n, Marge in Southern California  

Sigurd Towrie has a useful article on his Orkneyjar website on the subject. < http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/picts/language.htm > Although it’s not settled beyond doubt, it’s generally thought that the Pictish language is Celtic. As Sigurd’s article points out the the Pictish writing system originated in Ireland. David From: Janet Cassidy Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 8:18 AM To: DSA2003 Cc: [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Is it thought that the Picts spoke a Celtic language? Janet Sent from my iPad On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:00 PM, DSA2003 <[email protected]> wrote: G’day Janet The Picts who were the inhabitants of Orkney before the Vikings, are generally regarded as a Celtic people. But who were the people who built the Ness of Brodgar Temple, the village of Skara Brae etc, some 5,000 years ago ago is not known. However, the point I was trying to make yesterday with my reference to the Ness of Brodgar and the “origins of the Irish” article, was that new archaeological research is up-ending previous ideas as to direction in which culture flowed in ancient times. Previously, it was taken as a given that things developed in the Mediterranean and moved northwards through Europe. But now we’re seeing that there were great goings-on in the north-west of Europe in prehistoric times and the cultural influences were moving southwards. One line of speculation for the demise of the Ness of Brodgar temple is the advent of the Bronze Age leading to the centre of political/religious power moving south, closer to the sources of tin (Cornwall) and copper (Cork and Kerry) which are needed to make bronze. Back to the Vikings: there is news today that what appears to be another Viking site has been found in Newfoundland, several hundred miles further south from L’Anse aux Meadows which was discovered in the 1960s. < http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/ > < http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/science/vikings-archaeology-north-america-newfoundland.html?_r=0 > David Armstrong Maylands Western Australia From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:49 AM To: DSA2003 ; [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? LOVE reading about the stuff on Orkney. I was just there this past September. Unfortunately the excavation at Ness of Brodgar was closed for the season, so I'll just have to go back! However the Orkney islanders are/were not Celts. They never spoke a Celtic language. Instead they were influenced by Vikings and Picts. Janet C This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

G’day Janet The Picts who were the inhabitants of Orkney before the Vikings, are generally regarded as a Celtic people. But who were the people who built the Ness of Brodgar Temple, the village of Skara Brae etc, some 5,000 years ago ago is not known. However, the point I was trying to make yesterday with my reference to the Ness of Brodgar and the “origins of the Irish” article, was that new archaeological research is up-ending previous ideas as to direction in which culture flowed in ancient times. Previously, it was taken as a given that things developed in the Mediterranean and moved northwards through Europe. But now we’re seeing that there were great goings-on in the north-west of Europe in prehistoric times and the cultural influences were moving southwards. One line of speculation for the demise of the Ness of Brodgar temple is the advent of the Bronze Age leading to the centre of political/religious power moving south, closer to the sources of tin (Cornwall) and copper (Cork and Kerry) which are needed to make bronze. Back to the Vikings: there is news today that what appears to be another Viking site has been found in Newfoundland, several hundred miles further south from L’Anse aux Meadows which was discovered in the 1960s. < http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/ > < http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/science/vikings-archaeology-north-america-newfoundland.html?_r=0 > David Armstrong Maylands Western Australia From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:49 AM To: DSA2003 ; [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? LOVE reading about the stuff on Orkney. I was just there this past September. Unfortunately the excavation at Ness of Brodgar was closed for the season, so I'll just have to go back! However the Orkney islanders are/were not Celts. They never spoke a Celtic language. Instead they were influenced by Vikings and Picts. Janet C --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Choc biccies work every time!! :-D Dave On 31/03/2016 20:33, Marge in SoCal wrote: > Uh, oh, > Is that the chocolate biccies or something else? > > Slán, > Marge in Southern California --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Is it thought that the Picts spoke a Celtic language? Janet Sent from my iPad > On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:00 PM, DSA2003 <[email protected]> wrote: > > G’day Janet > > The Picts who were the inhabitants of Orkney before the Vikings, are generally regarded as a Celtic people. But who were the people who built the Ness of Brodgar Temple, the village of Skara Brae etc, some 5,000 years ago ago is not known. > > However, the point I was trying to make yesterday with my reference to the Ness of Brodgar and the “origins of the Irish” article, was that new archaeological research is up-ending previous ideas as to direction in which culture flowed in ancient times. Previously, it was taken as a given that things developed in the Mediterranean and moved northwards through Europe. But now we’re seeing that there were great goings-on in the north-west of Europe in prehistoric times and the cultural influences were moving southwards. One line of speculation for the demise of the Ness of Brodgar temple is the advent of the Bronze Age leading to the centre of political/religious power moving south, closer to the sources of tin (Cornwall) and copper (Cork and Kerry) which are needed to make bronze. > > Back to the Vikings: there is news today that what appears to be another Viking site has been found in Newfoundland, several hundred miles further south from L’Anse aux Meadows which was discovered in the 1960s. > > < http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/ > > > < http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/science/vikings-archaeology-north-america-newfoundland.html?_r=0 > > > David Armstrong > > Maylands > Western Australia > > > > > > From: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:49 AM > To: DSA2003 ; [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal > Subject: Re: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? > > LOVE reading about the stuff on Orkney. I was just there this past > September. Unfortunately the excavation at Ness of Brodgar was closed > for the season, so I'll just have to go back! > However the Orkney islanders are/were not Celts. They never spoke a > Celtic language. Instead they were influenced by Vikings and Picts. > > Janet C > > This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. > www.avast.com

Thanks, David! Especially for the link to the news about the possible new Viking site. That is fabulous. I will try to watch the PBS program. Janet Sent from my iPad > On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:00 PM, DSA2003 <[email protected]> wrote: > > G’day Janet > > The Picts who were the inhabitants of Orkney before the Vikings, are generally regarded as a Celtic people. But who were the people who built the Ness of Brodgar Temple, the village of Skara Brae etc, some 5,000 years ago ago is not known. > > However, the point I was trying to make yesterday with my reference to the Ness of Brodgar and the “origins of the Irish” article, was that new archaeological research is up-ending previous ideas as to direction in which culture flowed in ancient times. Previously, it was taken as a given that things developed in the Mediterranean and moved northwards through Europe. But now we’re seeing that there were great goings-on in the north-west of Europe in prehistoric times and the cultural influences were moving southwards. One line of speculation for the demise of the Ness of Brodgar temple is the advent of the Bronze Age leading to the centre of political/religious power moving south, closer to the sources of tin (Cornwall) and copper (Cork and Kerry) which are needed to make bronze. > > Back to the Vikings: there is news today that what appears to be another Viking site has been found in Newfoundland, several hundred miles further south from L’Anse aux Meadows which was discovered in the 1960s. > > < http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/ > > > < http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/science/vikings-archaeology-north-america-newfoundland.html?_r=0 > > > David Armstrong > > Maylands > Western Australia > > > > > > From: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:49 AM > To: DSA2003 ; [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal > Subject: Re: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? > > LOVE reading about the stuff on Orkney. I was just there this past > September. Unfortunately the excavation at Ness of Brodgar was closed > for the season, so I'll just have to go back! > However the Orkney islanders are/were not Celts. They never spoke a > Celtic language. Instead they were influenced by Vikings and Picts. > > Janet C > > This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. > www.avast.com

What a close family! On 31/03/2016 12:06 AM, Dave H. via wrote: > Evening Express 21 DEC 1896 > > BACK FROM THE GRAVE. A Strange case of mistaken identity is reported in > Belfast. Some months ago a young Man suffering from oarholio poisoning > was found in a state of collapse on a doorstep and taken to the Royal > Hospital, where he died shortoly afterwards without regaining > consciousness At the inquest the father and mother of a young clerk, > named NOLON, identified the remains as those of their son, and the body > was interred in the family burying-ground at Maguiresbridge, County > Fermanagh. > > On Saturday they received a letter from the son whom they thought dead > stating that he was in Florida, doing well..... > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ========================= > https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

See you Monday, George 8.30 am sharp! Robert ________________________________________ From: William Armstrong <[email protected]> Sent: 31 March 2016 13:00 To: Ulster Ancestry; [email protected] Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Aghavea Marriages added Hi Robert hope you had a good Easter. We spent it in Fermanagh, cold & wet, then back home & started some decorating. Did not think that PRONI would have been too busy this week. Might get down on Fri. If not back on Mon all being well. See you then. George Sent from my iPad > On 30 Mar 2016, at 22:18, Ulster Ancestry via <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Where were you this morning George? > > I stood outside PRONI talking to myself for at least 35 minutes!!! > > Place empty until about 10.00 and then the flood gates opened! > > regards > > Robert > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of ARMSTRONG WILLIAM via <[email protected]> > Sent: 30 March 2016 19:46 > To: Cliff. Johnston; fermanagh-gold > Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Aghavea Marriages added > > Sorry Cliff, Special permission needed to take photo's if given at all & can be > quite costly. > > George > >> >> On 30 March 2016 at 18:55 "Cliff. Johnston via" >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> WOW, thank you George for your work. >> George, is there a possibility that when you do the transcriptions that >> you could take a color, digital photograph of the illegible entries. I would >> like to take them into Photoshop to see if I can break them into the separate >> channels - red, green,& blue. Sometimes when this is done it is possible to >> decipher a word through the ink blobs, smears, etc.. Just a thought. >> Good hunting, >> Cliff. >> >> On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 11:05 AM, Christina Finn Hunt via >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Once again we have George Armstrong to thank for transcribing records >> for Fermanagh. >> The new set is for Aghavea Marriages 1815 - 1879: >> >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/fermanagh/churches/aghavea-coi-mar.htm >> Enjoy >> Christina >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ >> https://www.facebook.com/IrelandGenealogyProjects >> =============================== >> ========================= >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ========================= >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ========================= > https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ========================= > https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message