List and Bill, I think the point is that there has been quite extensive communication between numerous diverse races and cultures in Ireland for around 5000 years, all of whom would have surely added to the physical gene pool and also to what I call "the cultural gene pool." There were people living in my town land over 5000 years ago. This was long before the celts came. The celts may have become the dominant culture but the other peoples did not disappear. In fact the settlement pattern of those pre celtic people remains virtually unchanged in a lot of rural Ireland until this very day. They were a peaceful people living in small family homesteads (The only european race of the time to do so, Other european peoples lived in larger groups for protection). The remains of those homesteads still dot the country side and for example in my townland there is one 3000 to 5000 year old home stead for each present home stead. Our small farm has one our neighbours and their neighbours have one. Prof Brendan Caulfield of UCG has done a lot of work on this and feels that those people may have influenced the modern Irish even more than the celts. It is nice to think that a family (Maybe my ancestors)have lived and farmed the same plot of land for over 3000 years. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Roland & Rosemary Golden [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 10:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Black Irish Listers: Having read a numer of e-mails regading the proper hair color of the Irish, I'd like to arrogantly and pompously remind the writers who appear to be in the heat of ire that the accepted root stock for the "Native Irish" is (are?) Celtic. These people migrated from eastern Europe, maybe as far east as the Indus River. Who Knows? In any case they were believed to be fair of skin and red of locks. In New Testament times Turkey was known as Galatia (sic), another spelling for Gaul or Celt. and a country that is near the Indus and Danube Rivers. There are tribes located in central Turkey who are light of skin and red of hair even today. There are some red headed Spanish in the Northwest of Spain. If you are climbing your family tree and hair and freckles are important to you, so be it, that is your business (unless you are also a social or cultural anthropologist). Lets just be nice and civil to one an other, please. Very Sincerly, Bill Golden, [email protected] ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB