At 6:03 PM -0500 3/25/01, Mary McGinnis wrote: >The magazine ,"Ireland of the Welcomes", has just run its second article >on the Spanish in the Republic. I have followed earlier discussions on >the "Black Irish". The following are exerpts from the article entitled >"O'NEILL and O'DONNELL on the march". This will show that the Spanish >were in Ireland amd had contact with the northern cheiftans. The myth that the trait of black hair and dark eyes insome Irish come from the spanish has been debunked. The only true Black Irish are descendants of inter-marriage between African-Americans and Irish. If you go into the 1870 NYC census you'll find many marriages of Blacks and Irish; and this is only a few years after the Draft Riots. regards m ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jazz is freedom. - T. Monk http://www.panix.com/~cassidy

List and Michael: When one speaks of the Black Irish, and Spaniards, and Afro-Americans I am surprised that no mention of the 12,000 or so Italiens, members of Garibaldi's defeated Army, who came to Ireland in the late 1800's at the request of the British Government. This little noted migration, which was told on American Public Television and produced by The BBC and Telefeis Eirean (sic), originated in a valley that runs north from Naples to Rome. Oddly it was entitled North of Naples,South of Rome. Italiens have darker skin and Blacker hair than the Celtic Irish, if I'm not mistaken. In any case it is an interesting story, which is well told. It is worth pestering your local PBS station to show it. I saw it on Ch 36 out of Providence, RI. Just a thought! Watching this show is like sex. It is ok to do, but sinful if you enjoy it! Sincerely, Bill Golden, [email protected] Michael Cassidy wrote: > At 6:03 PM -0500 3/25/01, Mary McGinnis wrote: > >The magazine ,"Ireland of the Welcomes", has just run its second article > >on the Spanish in the Republic. I have followed earlier discussions on > >the "Black Irish". The following are exerpts from the article entitled > >"O'NEILL and O'DONNELL on the march". This will show that the Spanish > >were in Ireland amd had contact with the northern cheiftans. > > The myth that the trait of black hair and dark eyes insome Irish come from > the spanish has been debunked. The only true Black Irish are descendants of > inter-marriage between African-Americans and Irish. If you go into the 1870 > NYC census you'll find many marriages of Blacks and Irish; and this is only > a few years after the Draft Riots. > > regards > > m > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jazz is freedom. - T. Monk > http://www.panix.com/~cassidy > > ============================== > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query!

Michael, That is not entirely true. As I have posted on this list before, there are, and I personally know them, descendents of sailors from the Spanish Armada still living in the North west. There is quite a body of evidence, besides the oral records, to support the two groups I know. In their cases the Black hair and dark eyes would appear to come from their spanish ancestors. There was virtually no contact between sub-saharan africans and Irish prior to the time of the Armada and for some considerable time afterwards. There was however some contact between Spaniards, Portuguese and North Africans over many hundreds of years prior to that. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Michael Cassidy [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 5:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Spainards in Ireland/Black Irish At 6:03 PM -0500 3/25/01, Mary McGinnis wrote: >The magazine ,"Ireland of the Welcomes", has just run its second article >on the Spanish in the Republic. I have followed earlier discussions on >the "Black Irish". The following are exerpts from the article entitled >"O'NEILL and O'DONNELL on the march". This will show that the Spanish >were in Ireland amd had contact with the northern cheiftans. The myth that the trait of black hair and dark eyes insome Irish come from the spanish has been debunked. The only true Black Irish are descendants of inter-marriage between African-Americans and Irish. If you go into the 1870 NYC census you'll find many marriages of Blacks and Irish; and this is only a few years after the Draft Riots. regards m ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jazz is freedom. - T. Monk http://www.panix.com/~cassidy ============================== Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp Search over 2500 databases with one easy query!