Interesting reading at the following http://www.people.virginia.edu/~eas5e/Irish/Irish.html

I do't know about others but I find as I go further into research on my ancesters you get a feeling of them being old friends. and wonder what their lives were like. I have just examined a birth certificate of one of mine. The date was 27TH DECEMBER 1904 the mother was 22years old married 9 months and the birth was in a three roomed cottage. She gave birth to twins the first arrived at 12.20pm the second at 15.40pm. Can you imagine it, a bitter cold day, no central heating, no inside bathroom. turf fire. probably in labour for hours before the first arrived and to be in labour a further 3+ hours for the second.Only her mother in attendance. No doctor, midwife . ...and the husband probably having a drop of the poteen with the strain of it all. I thought it was bad enough having my twins in a huge delivery room in hospital with a consultant obstetrican, his senior registrar, two midwives and a paediatrican in attendance., An epidural being nicely topped top and they arrived within 7 minutes of each other. But then in those days birthing was women's work. hence the Irish saying 'keep the little woman pregnant and barefoot' and she wont stray. It always amazes me births were just a matter of course while 'wakes' were and in some areas still are an occasion for a 'Hooley'. Emily Pankhurst should have been born in Ireland and a hundred years earlier. Maureen

Ms. Nelson: I would recomend two books: 1) THE GREAT SHAME; THOMAS KENEALLY,Doubleday, 1998; 2) MODERN IRELAND 1600-1972; R.F. FOSTER, The Penguine Press, 1998. There is a lot of background given in both books. Troubles just don't happen, they happen in a context. (I wish I had dreamed up that line.) There are many other books available but these two seem to give events a context. As Bud Flanagan might say "1850 was just chapter 26 in the never ending saga." Sincerely, Bill Golden Betty Nelson wrote: > If anyone can answer these questions, please answer to the list. I would be > interest in the responses also. > TIA > Betty > > Subject: 12th July 1850's Troubles > . I am in need of advice and information concerning "The Troubles" in > Ireland of the early 1850's > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

This link has several meanings for parts of townlands which some folks may find useful. http://www.exis.net/ahd/monaghan/irishplacenames.htm Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Townlands > Hi Everybody, > > I am currently researching ancestors who lived in two Townlands near Clones: > Clonfad and Clonmacken. I have been told that 'Clon' means a ridge but does > anybody know what 'fad' or ' macken' means ? > > John Paul > > ______________________________

In a message dated 1/5/02 12:45:13 PM, [email protected] writes: << I am in need of advice and information concerning "The Troubles" in Ireland of the early 1850's, and particularly a murder in the family. I am looking for information on where to search next for details on my ancestor and his family. I am hoping that an obituary would provide family details, and the location of the event would allow me to focus on contacting a particular Orange lodge for information contained in their lodge minutes and membership lists. >> Doug, Two idea, neither of which is easy to do from this side of the Atlantic. One, try the "Outrage Reports" formerly held at Dublin Castle and now at the National archives (I think) in Dublin. These are police reports of disturbances, arranged by county. You may find something there. Second, reread those newspapers for one or two years AFTER the ncident, and pay attetion to the reports on the Assize Courts. If a trial was held for the crime, it would have been at the Assizes, which were held twice a year, in spring and late summer . This will take perseverance and painstaking research, because the newspapers in those days did not feature much local news, and you will have to comb thru looking for information. Usually it is tucked away somewhere--no big splashy headlines back then, except for international news, or news of the aristocracy. Same goes for an obituary. Unless he was a member of the aristocracy, there would not be much, if anything. Most obits were just mere mentions, with the barest of facts. Only the upper class and prominent merchants or clergy got any obit at all. You might put your questions regarding riots and such to John Cunningham. ([email protected]) He is very knowledgeable about local history and has done research on some riots. Janet C-S

In a message dated 1/5/02 12:45:13 PM, [email protected] writes: << I am in need of advice and information concerning "The Troubles" in Ireland of the early 1850's, and particularly a murder in the family. I am looking for information on where to search next for details on my ancestor and his family. I am hoping that an obituary would provide family details, and the location of the event would allow me to focus on contacting a particular Orange lodge for information contained in their lodge minutes and membership lists. >> Doug, Two idea, neither of which is easy to do from this side of the Atlantic. One, try the "Outrage Reports" formerly held at Dublin Castle and now at the National archives (I think) in Dublin. These are police reports of disturbances, arranged by county. You may find something there. Second, reread those newspapers for one or two years AFTER the ncident, and pay attetion to the reports on the Assize Courts. If a trial was held for the crime, it would have been at the Assizes, which were held twice a year, in spring and late summer . This will take perseverance and painstaking research, because the newspapers in those days did not feature much local news, and you will have to comb thru looking for information. Usually it is tucked away somewhere--no big splashy headlines back then, except for international news, or news of the aristocracy. Same goes for an obituary. Unless he was a member of the aristocracy, there would not be much, if anything. Most obits were just mere mentions, with the barest of facts. Only the upper class and prominent merchants or clergy got any obit at all. You might put your questions regarding riots and such to John Cunningham. He is very knowledgeable about local history and has done research on some riots. Janet C-S

Hello Folks: A Happy New Year to everyone. I am in need of advice and information concerning "The Troubles" in Ireland of the early 1850's, and particularly a murder in the family. I am looking for information on where to search next for details on my ancestor and his family. I am hoping that an obituary would provide family details, and the location of the event would allow me to focus on contacting a particular Orange lodge for information contained in their lodge minutes and membership lists. While researching the murder of my gggrandfather, Thomas Humphreys(ies), on 12 July 1850 or 1851 the Enniskillen newspaper reports of Orangemans' Day for those years show that there was very little in the form of celebrations carried out during that time in County Fermanagh as a whole, and no murders reported in the press for the town of Enniskillen, or for that matter anywhere in the county. Thomas Humphreys(ies) dressed up and represented King William for an Orangemans' parade, went to a pub afterwords, and upon leaving the pub was set upon by a Roman Catholic mob and stoned to death. An Orangeman here in Canada suggested that to represent King William he must have been the master of his lodge, but I don't know how true this is. Would someone please advise me as to who I may contact or what sources I may turn to with respect to the following questions: 1) If no celebrations were to happen in Enniskillen, to what town would someone from Enniskillen go who wanted to participate in a celebration of this kind? Presumably this would mean travel to an adjacent county. 2) Where did any or most of the violence occur during that time, especially in association with parades? 3) Are there any published works focusing on violence beyond that of the civil war? Published works could include a thesis from a university or other scholarly works. 4) What universities have history departments specializing in Irish history? 5) Does anyone know of a professor at a university anywhere in the world who has focused on this problem of Irish history, or is merely a general scholar in Irish history? I would greatly appreciate any comments or suggestions. Thanks folks. Doug Graham Ontario, Canada Searching: Humphreys(ies), McDonagh, McDonough. --------------------------------- Send your holiday cheer with Yahoo! Greetings.

If anyone can answer these questions, please answer to the list. I would be interest in the responses also. TIA Betty Subject: 12th July 1850's Troubles . I am in need of advice and information concerning "The Troubles" in Ireland of the early 1850's

Hi Everybody, I am currently researching ancestors who lived in two Townlands near Clones: Clonfad and Clonmacken. I have been told that 'Clon' means a ridge but does anybody know what 'fad' or ' macken' means ? John Paul

Just to put a direction to these townlands. If coming from Lisnaskea, you go straight through ROSSLEA you go into KILLYVILLY townland where the Border checkpoint is. Turn left at the checkpoint and that road takes you to these two adjoining townlands onto Derryvolan, Derrygelly. and Corragunt. all of which are on the Monaghan Border. Milligans is the other side of Rosslea next to Drumyarkin. Maureen

Researching the following surnames :- HOEY Brookeborough, Enniskillen THOMPSON, THOMSON Brookeborough, Enniskillen TIA Hilda in Australia.

Fran, You should be in luck. If the Philip Murray listed in Griffiths in 1862 was your gg grandfather then it is certain that all the baptisms for the family will be in St Tierneys in Rosslea or rather held at the FHC there. They are held on computer and I believe they are also on Microfilm. If I were in your shoes I would contact Oliver McCaffrey at the FHC in Rosslea and ask him for a full extraction of all the baptisms for MURRAY. for 1861-1881. It will show the names of the parents, the sponsors and the townland. The sponsors should not be overlooked as I have found they often married each other. I do not think I put that very well but you know what I mean. When you have that information, then it is time to contact Enniskillen Town Hall for the marriage records. Back to my genius friend Frank Roofe. I have been down this route and have found it invaluable, it at least gives you certainties. Then to the 1901 census, I have a tip on this one, if there is a puzzle in it ask the General Registrar for the birth certificate of the first child, and again it is a near certainty that the mother will have returned to her own mother for the birth, so the certificate nearly always shows the mother's name and her maiden name. A great way to get back down along the line. But St Tierneys records are a perfect start but be prepared for a whole new pile of names to emerge, Rosslea people seem to be related to every other family in Rosslea....... God don't I know it. and with a name like OWEN in the family I will have a bet with you that there is a BEGGAN or two in there. Maureen

There is a great emphasis on townlands but it must be remembered that a lot of certainlyNorth Eastern Fermanagh was mountainous and even though from Griffiths one would imagine that there were great sheaths of land capable of industrious use, this was not the case. Th townlands of Eshnadarragh, Corraleek, Corragunt,Bunlougher, lnockalear, Derrygannon, Derrygelly Derryneece, Ervey, Carnmore , Bruscannagh, Corrinshigo, Corbane, Creaghawarren and a few in between were and are especially so. In 1862 these townlands were served by one National School, that being at Creaghawarren. Most of the families in these areas intermarried and I would surmise that many of them met their future partners from the various townlands at school. I have found again and again that sisters in the same families married brothers from the same family and vice versa. Of course not all children actually made it to school as they were needed at home either to work on the land or to take care of the various broods of younger children or indeed were sent to the 'Hiring Fairs' to work for others for a few pence and their bed and board. The fathers did their best to scrape a bit of money together to send them to America or at least to England., thus creating a channel where the first one away made enough to send for the next in the family. I t is interesting that this is exactly what many third world countries are doing today. Maureen

In a message dated Wed, 2 Jan 2002 06:04:14, [email protected] writes: <<JAMES and MARY CAROLAN had 9 children. 7 of whom emigrated to USA.These were FELIX. JAMES. JOHN. MARY ANN. CATHERINE. FRANCIS. MARGARET. PATRICK and JOSEPH stayed at home and both married MURRAY sisters from DERRYGELLY. Patrick /Mary Ann Murray 20/10/1908 and Joseph Margaret Murray>> Maureen, My gggrandparents, Phillip and Alice (Coogan) MURRAY lived in Derrygelly, Co. Fermanagh at the time of the 1862 Griffith Valuation. Their son, Owen, listed Derrygelly as his residence in1880 when he married Bridget CALLAGHAN of Co. Monaghan. The family also had relatives in Derrynawilt (Dernawilt) where my grandmother, Margaret, was born to Owen and Bridget in 1881. Since there were only two Murray families listed in Derrygelly in 1862, I wonder if the two MURRAY sisters you mentioned could be my grandmother's first cousins. Any help on this family would be greatly appreciated. Fran

I forgot to say on the marriage postings that it is worthwhile looking at the witnesses as in my experience they often eventually married, Before any bright spark comes back at me I am aware that on some occasions they were of the same sex. .... and I would n't dream of commenting on that. Seriously though, this is important both on marriages and on Baptism sponsors. Maureen

I have got some very strange records but none funnier than this one. Anyone who can work out what a shilling was worth in those days will see the irony of it. Children might have starved but the dogs were looked after. DOG LICENSES March 1867 James Beggan Coraleek paid 2/6d for a yellow hound license March 1868 Pat Beggan paid 2/6d for a white Colley March 1871 Patrick Beggan Corraleek paid 2/6d for a brown Colley license March 1899 only 2 persons licensed their dogs in Corraleek they were James Murphy and Bernard Beggan and on August 26th 1899 the following were prosecuted and fined 6d and one shilling costs each by a magistrate in Rosslea Hugh Slowey. Peter Beggan, Owen Mulligan. Bridget Smith. John Flynn. Bridget Hand. Patrick McElroy. Michael Beggan and Bridget Rooney. In 1900 Hugh Beggan and James Beggan paid 3 shillings license for each dog. That was probably at least a weeks wages in those days. Maureen

I have had so many requests and enquiries for pre 1860 so I thought I would post this again. It is just a few items from CLONES Chursh. Marriages 21/11/1826 Hugh Beggan to Mary McElgunn witnesses Pat Mullarkey/Mary Cochran 13/11/1835 Michael Beggin to Anne Sullivan wit. James Beggin Bernard Cassidy 24/11/1836 John Beggan to Ellen Moan wit. James Beggan & Ann Moan 14/9/1842 Edward Murphy to Rose Beggin wit. James Graham & Jane Aylmer 26/2/1844 Thomas Beggin to Sarah Clerkin wit. Charles Clerkin Terence Clerkin 29/8/1844 James Beggin to Catherine McCann wit. Tyrone?Quigley Anna McCann 24/11/1844 Eugene Beggin to Catherine McKenna wit. Bernard Beggin/Bridget Magony 16/2/1845 Bernard Beggin to Bridget Lynch wit. Bernard Beggin/Mary Lynch 28/11/1850 Patrick Begin to Eleanora McCann wit.James Devlin/Eleanor Smyth 12/1/1858 Charles Beggin to Matilda Maguire wit.John Collins.Eugene Beggin 10/10/1865 Patrick Grew to Elizabeth Donaghan wit. James Beggin/Catherine Grew 6/6/1862 James Beggan [Newtownbutler to Anne Tierney wit. Anne Tierney/Jane McCann 16/6/1857 John Swift to Catherine Cassidy wit. John Sweeny/???Swift. The register difficult to read as handwriting poor and ink faded. Hope this helps someone as it shows that there were Catholic records about in the Churches prior to 1860. Maureen

Maurene Forgive the intrusion but two things wrong with your information. The 1901UK Census is for England and Wales only. The address for the web site is www.census.pro.gov.uk. I wouldn't bother trying to sign on for a few days/weeks. The site is completely chocker at the moment. 1.5 million instant hits at one time today. Regards Don

Joyce, I would strongly suggest that you get hold of the 1901 Fermanagh census. I was watching the news this morning and this census is supposed to be on line from today. www.census.prov.gov.uk but I have tried to get it and there is a problem, also I am not sure whether it covers the six Counties of Ireland, but if not, it may be available from your local FHC. Enniskillen Town Hall will also have the relevant marriage records, and as you are searching after 1862 the Church in Enniskillen will have birth records. showing parents, and godparents. Enniskillen is not the largest place on this earth and as you have the townland you should be fine. NOLAN, FINNEGAN, HUESTON and ADAMS SHOULD BE OK. But KELLY may give you a problem. It is a very common Fermanagh name. Maureen

In a message dated 1/2/02 10:21:22 AM, [email protected] writes: << Is there a kind person who can look up birth and emigration records for the Henry Wilsons of this era? >> Carol, you probably don't realize what a huge thing you are asking. However, you can access the index to Irish birth records yourself on microfilm at the LDS FHCs. Unless you have some clues though, such as parish or general area of Fermanagh, and father's name, you're going to have to wade through a lot of names! WILSON is fairly common and there are probably lots of Henrys. As far as emigration records, there are few records of people leaving Ireland. Perhaps Canada kept records of people entering? I know for the US, ships records were kept by port of entry. Try the Fermnagh-Gold site, too, for some records you can search by surname: http://www.fermanagh.org.uk/ Good luck, Janet C-S