My Granny was a very clever and witty woman and I often think of her and what she would think of my efforts to bring her family to life. Just recently I appear to have hit the 'Brick wall' with my grandfather, her husband and suddenly one of her old saying's came into my head. EVERY OLD SHOE HAS A MATE SOMEWHERE. then today my mother rang. my uncle has recently died and my mother said I cannot stop thinking of him and mammy. Well, after the shivers had stopped running down my spine I went back to the drawing board and I swear the answer jumped up at me. The motto of this is, Keep going our ancesters approve. It has also taught me to rely on my instincts and not to accept anything at face value, especially some of the spellings in old records, and to remember that the Baptismal names children were given are very often not the names they were known by in later life. What is so stupid is that I got rid of original sin with the name of Mary Bernadette, mind you perhaps my mother knew that there would be plenty of further sinning and was maybe trying to give me a second chance. Only one problem who would be brave enough to try and hold me over the font. So when you are tearing your hair out, remember my granny's words. Maureen

In a message dated 1/5/2002 4:08:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > There is a great emphasis on townlands but it must be remembered that a lot > of certainlyNorth Eastern Fermanagh was mountainous and even though from > Griffiths one would imagine that there were great sheaths of land capable > of > industrious use, this was not the case. > hi, this seques very nicely into the very issue i have been investigating. i am looking for evidence of MCGAVERNS in co. fermanagh. i have 3 brothers/cousins JOHN, FRANCIS, AND HUGH born between 1790-1800 in maguires bridge and eniskillin. i recently bought the tithe applotment CD and it lists a JOHN and JANE MCGAVERIE in co. tyrone, clogher parish, townland cloneblagh in 1825. i ordered the microfim from LDS and am still waiting for it. i dont have any really good maps, but get the sense it is not far from co. fermanagh, close to the county line, but is it mountainous there? would people have been farmers? does it make sense they would have travelled between the two counties? my 3 brothers in question were career soldiers but they had to have been from somewhere...if i cant actually find the family, i am trying to understand the geography, religions, and commerce that might have driven their actions. thanks, heidi [email protected]

Dear list: 1.I remember the 1901 census was supposed to go online but my computer crashed and I have lost the bookmark. Does anyone have the website address? 2. I have a relative I found in the microfilms of the 1901 census whose name was Celia McDonnell and her brother Tom living with their father, Hugh, in the townland of Lehinch, Newtownbutler area. Later literature refers to a "Cissie" Farrell in the family whose brother was Tom McDonnell of Lehinch. Is Cissie a diminutive of Celia or a nickname? Is it derived form calling her "sis" at home as she appears to be the only female sibling in the family? Her granddaguther was Cassie Jane Collins who was married to Liam Collins of Lehinch. Does this ring a bell with anyone? Janet Morgan

Thank you one and all for the very helpful advice given as a result of my Humphreys family murder query. All the best, Doug Graham. --------------------------------- Web-hosting solutions for home and business! Yahoo! Website Services.

If you've been having trouble accessing the 1901 Census link mentioned last week, you're not alone! Apparently it's been swamped and they've set up a page with this explanation of their efforts to accommodate the high interest. http://www.censushelpdesk.co.uk

In reply to Maureen Batty's comments in relation to giving birth in earlier times, the conditions were not just Irish but rather universal. It was not just a case of women's work in isolation from men. The men were frequently working away from home, sometimes away for a week at a time or miles away daily. I have some stories in my family of a father being called by the midwife and told to come and get the baby for burial. He then had to get home, dig the grave and bury the child. Often the Minister was several days' ride away on his rounds of a farflung parish. Usually young women relatives or neighbours helped out for a few weeks until the mother was able to take over the household again. There was usually a community of support even in isolated settlements for males and females. Anne Maye in Oz.

Am reposting my interests now that the comings and goings of the Christmas & New Year period is over and family have flown again. My Bernard MCDONAGH & spouse mabel/Mary MORRISON left Dundee on the 'Anne Milne' in 1841. Bernard died five days after the ship left port. Mabel/Mary's records show her parents to be Edward and Mary MORRISON and her native place Lisseen, FER. Her referees were from Ederney and Kesh. With her on the ship were sons Edward b 1834, Owen b 1836 and James b 1840. It is believed that they had a daughter who did not come to Australia. Would love to hear from anyone with possible links. Anne Maye

I knew I had it somewhere but anyhow better late than never. ELLEN Mc Avinnie married Daniel Maguire on 7th May 1871 CATHERINE McAvinnie married Edward Maguire on 14th February 1914 Both marriages at Newtownbutler With the Maguires in there I have probably given a bigger headache than was needed but someone has asked for this name. Sorry I cannot remember the e-mail address as I have just done a clear out on my filing cabinet. Maureen

Donagh cemetery is situated at Donagh approx half a mile north of the Lisnaskea/Newtownbutler Road. The ruins were a medieval chapel in the parish of DRUMULLY There are 220 Stones the oldest of which are in latin ie. around 1700. I only have a few extracts from the records but as there are a few people looking for MURRAY I thought I would post this. Here lieth the body of Patrick McMurray who departed this life on 30th January 1726 aged 66 years .Also Charles McMurray who died 15th January 1744. Maureen

----- Original Message ----- From: William John Limebeer To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: Ancestor search My LEIGHTON ancestors resided in Co.Sligo in the 1800's, possibly 1700's too. We have been searching for their Parish and or Townland in Sligo for ever so long, without success. Many of these LEIGHTON families emigrated to the Province of Ontario Canada in the 1820's -1865 of which we have a confirmed record. Please, would SKS direct or assist me in finding the location in Sligo where the LEIGHTON's lived? They were members of the Church of Ireland so far as we know and were more than likely members of the Orange Order, as they were here in Canada. Eagerly awaiting a positive response, Thank you William J Limebeer Guelph On. Can.

Doug This Orange website might be of use to you, lots of links, etc., etc.,: http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/links.html cheers Richard This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC, unless specifically stated.

For County Clare, Townland maps and others are on the Clare Library web-page www.clarelibrary.ie Cheers Jim Martin ===================================================== "Thomas P. Oberst" wrote: > > Does anyone know of a good on-line source for maps showing the locations > and boundaries of all the townlands in each and every one of the > parishes for Co. Fermanagh? I think someone once told me that there are > maps in the 1901 census, by county and parish? Are any of these townland > maps on-line? What about other Counties in Ireland? I have ordered from > my local FHC microfiche which is supposed to show all the townlands in > Co. Fermanagh, I assume by parish. I also have a map which appears to > have come from the 1901 census for parish Kinawley, but it only has > about 50% of the townlands. Any thoughts, suggestions on how I might be > able to proceed will be greatly appreciated. While I have tracked down > my Breen ancestors to Co. Fermanagh, my Flanigan, Daily, Tubridy and > McCue came from all over Ireland and I know that I will need these > townland maps at a later date. > > Tom Oberst > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

PARISH OF DEVENISH County Fermanagh BURIALS 1801 Elizabeth Dundas, Roscor, age 48 1809 Oct 4 Anne Gyles al. Dundas, Whitehill, age 30 Nov 8 Catherine Howden al. Dundas, Aughnaherish 1810 Jane Drennan al. Dundas, Skea, age 80 Jane Elliott al. Dundas, Drumsilla, age 30 1829 Mar 5 Jane Dundas, age 70 1832 Oct 5 Robert Dundas, Samsonagh, age 58 1833 Sep 22 Anne Dundas, Roscor, age 14 Nov 17 Mary Dundas, Roscor, age 16 1840 Mar 15 Anne Dundas, Buggan, age 86 1847 Henry Dundas, Rossinure, age 63 (destitute) 1849 Jane Dundas, Samsonagh, age 25 1852 John Dundas, Buggan, age 33 1854 Catherine Dundas, Samsonagh, age 38 1855 Margaret Dundas, Samsonagh, age 92 1857 Anne Dundas, Buggan, age 61 1860 Prudence Dundas, Buggan, age 80 1861 Jane Dundas, Mullaghdun, Cleenish, age 77 1863 Henry Dundas, Roscor, age 84 Henry Dundas, Roscor, age 39 1865 Elizabeth Dundas, Ross Outer, age 54 1867 John Dundas, The Collop, age 65 1869 Mary Dundas, Glenkeel, Boho, age 72 John Dundas, Buggan, age 82 1871 Susan Dundas, Buggan, age 80 1876 Susan Dundas, Buggan, age 37 1888 James Dundas, Buggan, age 70 1889 Armour Dundas, Buggan, age 60 1893 Alexander Dundas, Buggan, age 77 1900 Alice Dundas, Kilgarron? Inishmacsaint, age 80 NB: In 1848 there were 24 burials 1849 26 1850 22 But in 1847 there were 74 burials

Thank you all for the very valuable suggestions around securing Townland Maps for Parishes. Here is a URL which identifies the LDS microfiche which I believe contains the maps. http://www.rootsweb.com/~fianna/guide/towns.html Best Regards, Tom Oberst

PARISH OF DEVENISH County Fermanagh MARRIAGES 1808 Oct 10 William Johnston and Mary Dundas 1810 Dec 23 Gustavus Dundas and Mary Breen. (He enlisted in the Artillery. She was an inhabitant of Aughakeerin) 1811 Apr 22 William Dundas and Phoebe Gardiner Aug 16 Anthony Armstrong and Mary Dundas 1813 Apr 22 William Dundas and Mary Robinson, Garrison 1817 Apr 16 Andrew Armstrong, Inishmacsaint and Mary Dundas, Devenish 1822 Jan 13 John Dundas, Inishmacsaint and Catherine Maguire 1824 Jan 2 Robert Huston and Dinah Dundas Jan 9 John Dundas and Ann McLean 1832 May 3 James Dundas and Anne McFadden. (He a farmer of Inishmacsaint and she of the Parish of Devenish) 1834 Aug 18 John Porteous of Rosnafasna, cotter? and Elizabeth Dundas of Rabraan. Both in Devenish parish 1835 Apr 17 William Dundas, farmer of Inishmacsaint and Mary Nixon of Devenish 1837 Jan 27 William Dundas, farmer of Devenish and Eleanor Haddock of Drumbirney 1838 May 23 John Dundas, Banagher, Devenish and Elizabeth Nixon, Robraan 1841 Dec 21 James Saunderson, Shean and Anne Dundas, Cleans. (Rev. John Wilson) 1845 Feb 23 William Porteous, farmer of Giltaugh and Sarah Dundas Buggan. (f. John Dundas, farmer. Witness, James Dunlop) 1848 Dec 10 Moses Dundas, labourer of Mullynaskeagh, (f. Robert Dundas, farmer) and Catherine Cloken or Ovens (widow) 1852 Mar 23 Francis Dundas, farm servant of Drumenure, (f. Patrick Dundas, labourer) and Mary Hudge 1859 Dec 13 William Guthrie, farmer of Rooskey and Ellen Dundas, Rooskey (f. Robert Dundas, farmer) 1862 Dec 19 William Rutherford, b. farmer of Drumscambly, (f. Gabriel Rutherford, farmer) and Eleanor Dundas s. Cleens, (f. James Dundas, farmer) by Loftus Reade. William Rutherford, Eleanor Dundas, John Trotter, James Dundas 1864 Nov 25 William Carson, widower, farmer of Carnayhill, (f. John Carson, farmer) and Sabina Dundas, s. Cleens (f. James Dundas, farmer) by John Henderson. William Carson, Sabina, Dundas, James Dundas, James Saunderson 1867 Nov 8 Francis Graham, Ardnacarra, Derrybrusk, (f. Francis Graham) and Ellen Dundas, Drumbeggan, (f. Francis Dundas) 1871 Oct 18 James Graham, Crawfordshill (f. Charles Graham) and Margaret Jane Dundas, Springfield (f. James Dundas by John M Young. Robert Johnston, Robert Oswald 1875 Arthur Dundas and Phoebe Elliott 1880 William Dundas, Shankshill and Jane Brown Hugh Dundas, Magho and Elizabeth Stinson 1882 Feb 17 Thomas Dickson, Gillyholm (f. Richard Dickson) and Sarah Anne Dundas, Springfield (f. James Dundas) by JH Steele. Edward Weir, Thomas Dundas 1887 May 6 Edward Dundas, farmer of Drumcrow, West Slavin, (f. Noah Dundas) and Margaret Johnston, Donegall, Devenish, (f. John Johnston). Witness Rebecca Dundas 1892 Apr 29 William Carruthers, Giltragh, (f. Robert Carruthers, farmer) and Sarah Jane Dundas, Cleens (new) (f. William Dundas, farmer) 1893 June 20 Thomas Boyle, Killyveagh and Jane Dundas, Ballygonnel, (f. David Dundas, farmer) 1894 Feb 16 Robert Irvine, farmer of Drumrainey, Derryvullan and Martha Elizabeth Dundas, Cleens 1902 June 25 Christopher Irvine, farmer Coolarkin Boho and Margaret Dundas, Drumbeggan (f. John Dundas, farmer)

Jan, You may want to put these into your database. This is what I have. I also have Marriages and Burials to follow. EXTRACTS FROM PAROCHIAL RETURNS IN PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, DUBLIN PARISH OF DEVENISH County Fermanagh BAPTISMS 1800 Samuel, s. of Robert Robinson and Jane Dundas, Killivea 1806 Jan 12 James, s. of James Dundas and Sidney McFadden Jan 19 William, s. of Arthur Dundas and Mary Watson, Banagher 1807 Jan 11 Elizabeth, d. of Patrick Dundas and Eleanor Veech, Scandilly 1808 Mar 30 Mary, d. of William Dundas and Sidney McFadden, Broomhill (part of Gilag) May 1 Michael, s. of James McLean and Mary Dundas, Derryvara Oct 23 James, s. of Christopher Brown and Rebecca Dundas, Wheathill 1809 Jun 11 Edward, s. of James McLean and Mary Dundas, Derryvara Margaret, d. of Patrick Dundas and Elizabeth Veech, Scandilly Apr 9 Francis, s. of Francis Clyes and Anna Dundas, Whitehill Sep 24 Mary Anne, d. of William Dundas and Marth McFadian, Broomhill 1810 Isabella, d. of Robert Robinson and Jane Dundas, Killivea 1811 Mar 17 James, s. of John Dundas and Susanna Aughenleck, Buggan Jun 24 David, s. of George McFadian and Mary Dundas, Lughan 1813? James, s. of George McFadian and Mary Dundas, Lughan 1811 July 7 Sarah, d. of John Eaton and Jane Dundas, Drumary Maria, d. of James McLean and Mary Dundas, Derryvara Elizabeth, d. of Patrick Dundas and Eleanor Veech, Drumcroohan 1812 John, s. of Arthur Dundas and Mary Watson, Banagher 1813 John, s. of John Dundas and Susanna Auchenleck, Buggan 1815 Alexander, s. of John Dundas and Susanna Auchenleck, Buggan 1817 Sarah, d. of John Dundas and Susanna Auchenleck, Buggan 1819 Jane, d. of John Dundas and Mary Kerr, Inishlogher (Island) 1820 Jan 20 Eleanor, d. of Charles Shuson? and Mary Dundas, Derryvara Mar 19 Alice, d. of John Dundas and Susanna Auchenleck, Buggan June 15 Susan, d. of John Dundas and Susanna Auchenleck, Buggan 1822 June 9 Alex, s. of William McBrien and Jane Dundas, Druniscallop 1823 Margaret, d. of Hugh Mulligan and Margaret Dundas, Devenish 1828 Mary Anne, d. of James Dundas and Sarah Dundas, Randolshugh Eliza, d. of Francis Dundas and Mary Dundas 1829 James, s. of Francis and Margaret Dundas, Drumbeggan 1830 Thomas, s. of Edward Elliott and Catherine Dundas, Coagh. (Hatter) Elizabeth, d. of Henry Dundas and Mary Miller, Buggan Mary, D. of James Dundas and Sarah Fallis, Randolshugh 1831 Margaret, d. of James Dundas and Elizabeth Elliott, Lughan Thomas, s. of Thomas Dundas and Mary Poteous, Drumanure, illeg. John, s. of Francis and Margaret Dundas, Drumbeggan 1832 Catherine, d. of Patrick Dundas and Catherine Thompson, Shankhill 1833 George, s. of William Armstrong and Jane Dundas, Magheragannon John, s. of James Dundas and Elizabeth Elliott, Scandally Oct 27 Charlotte, d. of Francis and Margaret Dundas, Drumbeggan 1834 William, s. of William Armstrong and Jane Dundas, Magheragannon Alexander, s. of Alexander Drennan and Elizabeth Dundas, Tullycreavy 1835 William, s. of James and Sarah Dundas, Randolshugh Robert, s. of John and Anne Dundas, Derryvara Mary Jane, d. of Francis and Margaret Dundas, Drumbeggan 1836 George, s. of Patrick and Catherine Dundas, Shankhill 1834 Aug 24 James, s. of James and Sarah Dundas, Springfield (GL Reade) 1835 July 19 James, s. of John and Ellen Dundas, Cleens (TJ Ovenden) 1836 Aug 7 Edward, s. of James and Sarah Dundas, Cleens 1837 William, s. of Francis and Mary Dundas, Drumbeggan May 21 Eliza Catherine, d. of John and Ellen Dundas, Cleens 1838 Nov 18 William, s. of James and Sarah Dundas, Springfield (John Wilson) Thomas, s. of Henry and Mary Dundas, Scandilly Anne, d. of John and Anne Dundas, Broomhill 1839 John, s. of James and Anne Dundas, Stratonagher 1840 Feb 22 Margaret Jane, d. of James and Sarah Dundas, Springfield (John Wilson) Thomas, s. of James and Sarah Dundas, Randolshugh John, s. of Francis and Margaret Dundas, Drumbeggan 1841 Mary Jane, d. of William and Mary Dundas, Derrygonnelly Rebecca, d. of Henry and Mary Dundas, Buggan 1842 Mary, d. of Francis and Jane Dundas, Drumary 1843 David, s. of David and Anne Dundas, Maynes John, s. of Robert and Sarah Dundas, Randolshugh James, s. of Francis and Jane Dundas, Drumary Eleanor, d. of Francis and Margaret Dundas, Drumbeggan 1844 Jan 31 Sarah Anne, d. of James and Sarah Dundas, Springfield (John Wilson) 1845 William, s. of James and Ellen Dundas 1846 Richard, s. of James and Sarah Dundas, Randolshugh William, s. of John and Eleanor Dundas, Cleens 1847 William, s. of William and Ellen Dundas, Dairies (Labourer) 1848 Nov 14 John Thomas, s. of James and Sarah Dundas, Cleens and Springfield (LG Reade) John, s. of John and Bessy Dundas, Robron 1850 May 29 James, s. of James and Sarah Dundas, Springfield (LG Reade) Eleanor, d. of John and Eliz Dundas, Robron 1853 Sep 18 Mary Ellen, d. of James and Sarah Dundas, Springfield (LG Reade) Margaret, d. of John and Bessy Dundas, Robron 1857 Catherine, d. of Henry and Ellen Dundas, Stratore 1860 Sarah, d. of Alex. Dundas and Anne Huston, Buggan (illeg.) 1864 Margaret Anna, d. of William and Sarah Anne Dundas, Cleens 1865 William Francis, s. of John and Anne Jane Dundas, Drumbeggan 1866 Martha Elizabeth, d. of William and Sarah Anne Dundas, Cleens 1867 Anna Isabella, d. of John and Anne Jane Dundas, Drumbeggan 1868 Mary Jane, d. of John and Anne Jane Dundas, Drumbeggan Sarah Jane, d. of William and Sarah Anne Dundas, Cleens 1870 Mary Jane, d. of John and Jane Dundas, Stratonagh 1871 James, s. of John and Anne Jane Dundas, Drumbeggan 1872 Williamina, d. of William and Sarah Anne Dundas, Cleens After 1872 did not enter all baptisms 1875 John William, s. of William and Sarah Anne Dundas, Cleens 1877 John, s. of John and Anne Jane Dundas, Drumbeggan 1889 Samuel Aaron, s. of William John and Deborah Dundas, Fortagh Bill Barber ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty Jean Moyle" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: [FER-GOLD] Church records > I have not been successful in finding the Church of Ireland records, starting at 1800, for Devenish Parish at the LDS centre. Has anyone been able to find this film, which is listed as MIC/31 at PRONI? > I am hoping to purchase the film from PRONI and am wondering is any Fermanagh listers might know the name and address of the minister at Monea Church as I will need his consent. > Hoping someone can help! > bj

Crawford, I would very much like a scanned copy of Devenish and Inishmacsaint. Could you send it direct since the list will not pass it? Thanks! Bill Barber Hudson, New Hampshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crawford MacKeand" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Townland Maps > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Thomas P. Oberst wrote: > > It's correct that they were in the 1901 Irish Census, as I have copies > here for Devenish, Inishmacsaint and Rossorry. They were obtained by a > friend in a visit to Salt Lake City library, and I've never seen them on > the web. If those parishes are any help I can scan them for you, but I > also would like to get hold of the Kinawley map. > > Crawford.

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Thomas P. Oberst wrote: > Does anyone know of a good on-line source for maps showing the locations > and boundaries of all the townlands in each and every one of the > parishes for Co. Fermanagh? I think someone once told me that there are > maps in the 1901 census, by county and parish? Are any of these townland > maps on-line? What about other Counties in Ireland? I have ordered from It's correct that they were in the 1901 Irish Census, as I have copies here for Devenish, Inishmacsaint and Rossorry. They were obtained by a friend in a visit to Salt Lake City library, and I've never seen them on the web. If those parishes are any help I can scan them for you, but I also would like to get hold of the Kinawley map. Crawford.

Does anyone know of a good on-line source for maps showing the locations and boundaries of all the townlands in each and every one of the parishes for Co. Fermanagh? I think someone once told me that there are maps in the 1901 census, by county and parish? Are any of these townland maps on-line? What about other Counties in Ireland? I have ordered from my local FHC microfiche which is supposed to show all the townlands in Co. Fermanagh, I assume by parish. I also have a map which appears to have come from the 1901 census for parish Kinawley, but it only has about 50% of the townlands. Any thoughts, suggestions on how I might be able to proceed will be greatly appreciated. While I have tracked down my Breen ancestors to Co. Fermanagh, my Flanigan, Daily, Tubridy and McCue came from all over Ireland and I know that I will need these townland maps at a later date. Tom Oberst

John, Rosslea is in the parish of Clones. Clones Parish covers a very wide area of Fermanagh and PRONI have the records on microfilm. However they tell me you have to have the permission of the Parish to have them copied. I have never used a microfilm so I do not know the no. but I do know that getting a reply from the various Parish priests is a long drawn exercise. I am sure there are other people on this site who have more experience of this than I have so I hope you will get some help from them. Maureen