Oh Dear, Subscribers have obviously not read my very previous posting. I cannot without permission of Trinity CollegeDublin post the my map of Eshnadarragh or Corraleek but if as you can see from my map they are two of the largest townlands of Fermanagh and they show 6 and 4 properties respectively you will understand that the smaller townlands may only have had one or two households living there. This is where it is very important in looking for your ancesters as if you then refer to Griffiths Valuation of Tenements you look not only at your own family name but the other families living there that you will undoubtedlyfind a connection. Yes it is difficult to understand if you you live in the wide open spaces of America or Australia that your ancesters lived so 'cheek by jowl' that's the way it was. A small cottage, earthen floor, two rooms, one the bedroom for father mother, and however many kids, the other kitchen/livingroom/washroom/cloakroom/ . and that is exaggerating the niceties. My g grandfathers house is still talked about because it had an upstairs!! There was nothing romantic about the way our ancesters lived, even the so called better off. Inside Toilets were a rarity in even the most affluent households in the 1960's in the villages or as is used so much in GENEALOGY the townlands. It was only in the early 1960's that the local authorities looked at sanitation and improved their ownr ented Council properties . I have read of so many searchers who say' my family are very reticent of discussing their background' respect this because for most who emigrated they have not got happy memories. The IRISH loved their Country and only left it because it was their only way out from FAMINE.TB and for the women a child every 9months with no wherewithall to feed them. It was commom for the Parish Priest to visit a woman who had not had a child within that period to ask why. The idea being the more the children, the more to propagate the Catholic Faith.But this was not just peculiar to the Catholic Religion hence the old Irish saying ' Keep your woman well .... and poorly shod. My 75 year old mother has a lovely saying' pretend you are stupid and it is amazing what you learn' and unfortunatley for genealogists that is the way many Irish treat, in their term 'Strangers' so you really have to dig. I apologise to all those who find my bluntness unacceptable but that is how it was. Maureen

My apologies. I have reason to believe my server is deleting some of my mail. Forgive the intrusion. Darlene

In a message dated 5/14/01 4:20:39 PM, [email protected] writes: << I hate to show my ignorance here, but just exactly what Is a Townland? Was it a farm, owned by one family, an area that consisted of more than one farm?? >> Bonnie, Don't apologize--it's confusing, esp to us here in the States! A townland is the smallest civil division (at least, the smallest still in use) . It is a division of a parish, which is a civil divison (not to be confused with a church parish) A townland can be anywhere from less than ten acres to several thousand acres. These units do not necessarily contain towns or villages. (Some are completely unihabited! ) They usually consist of several farms, though the smallest ones could be just one farm. The largest ones could have 30 or 40 farms, depending on the size of the townland and the farms. They are the most specific address for rural people. Of course if you can have a townland with ten different families each on their own farm, each using the name of the townland as the address--the postman knows who is who and who lives in which house. But you could drive down the road and pass through several different townlands, and never know it, because there aren't any signs to say so. You'd have to ask a local person. Drumhack is a townland of 92 acres in the civil parish of Aghalurcher. The nearest sizable town is probably Lisnaskea, since it is in that "poor law union." For an explanation of that term, go back to the PRONI site! Maguiresbridge is a village in the same parish (Aghalurcher). I don't have a map handy, but Drumhack is probably not far from it. Aghavea is both the name of a townland and another parish, which borders Aghalurcher. In fact, Aghalurcher almost surrounds Aghavea. Go to the PRONI site and check the map for parishes of Fermanagh. Hope this helps a little! Janet C-S

After looking at the scan of Maureen's map, it is not a map of Co. Fermanagh, but rather it appears a map of Clones Parish, partly in Co Fermanagh and partly in Co. Monaghan. It's unfortunate, but it seemed too good to be true to get all of Fermanagh townlands on one map. "Fermanagh Gold" <[email protected]> sur 13/05/2001 02:24:10 Veuillez répondre à "Fermanagh Gold" <[email protected]> Pour : [email protected] cc : Objet : Maureen's Map Hello list Following the threads and the great interest shown in Maureen's map, she has kindly sent me a scan which I've published on a temporary page on Fermangh Gold so you can see the content. Go to http://www.fermanagh.org.uk/genealogy/resources/fermmap.htm Hope this helps. Further enquires to Maureen please! Jan ============================== Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Hi All.. I hate to show my ignorance here, but just exactly what Is a Townland? Was it a farm, owned by one family, an area that consisted of more than one farm?? I realize I am very ignorant about this. For instance my husband's ancestors(which is the family I am trying to uncover) were the KIRKPATRICK's.. I have learned that his grgrgrgrandparents were married in Aghavea, and a relative still living in Lisnaskea tells me in a letter that her Father and Grandfather were both born in "the Drumhack cottage".. i really believe that her grandfather is the son of my husband's grgrgrgrandfather John Kirkpatrick, but she is 93, and doesn't seem to remember. She also mentions McGuires Bridge.. Are these places all very close?? Or even the same.. I looked up Drumhack on the Proni site, and another and they both say that Drumhack is a Townland in the Parish of Aghalurcher, Co Fermanagh.. Can anyone help me here?? Thanks in advance, and I do apologize for my ignorance on this matter.. Bonnie Kirkpatrick in the Thumb of Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 1:18 PM Subject: Map of Fermanagh > In reply to Thomas Moffat > > This is a huge anomoly for many people who do not know the area, but there is > a huge difference today as opposed to prior to the separation of the 6 > counties from the 26 Counties of Ireland. CLONES PARISH on the records up > to the 1920's does not mean that the people lived in Clones in County > Monaghan Every certificate I have , and I have at least a hundred of the > Rosslea area show the PARISH as CLONES. but my ancesters come from > Eshnadarragh, Corraleek and Corragunt, all > very definitely in Fermanagh. > > In 1922 this changed to the UNION OF LISNASKEA on all certificates. The > confusion is made even worse by the fact that west of Rosslea ie. > Aghadrumsee, Newtownbutler etc where the CHURCH RECORDS were not held by > individual churches, at least if they were they deny it, and you have to > apply to the PARCOCHIAL HOUSE , THE SACRED HEART , CLONES. > > What I think is not realised is how small Fermanagh actually is and where the > National Boundary lies between the NORTH and SOUTH of Ireland. In some cases > and indeed as was on the farm I was brought up on ,the boundary was only a > stream > and the farm was actually straddling Fermanagh and Monaghan. Hence my > comments in previous listings where I warned to watch out for this as the > 'HUSBAND TO BE' only had to cross the fields to COURT his Bride to be. > > This also applies to LEITRIM, DONEGAL.CAVAN. all in the 26 Counties and > TYRONE in the six Counties. To illustrate better perhaps, I could travel by > car from Enniskillen to Clones taking the scenic route in under an hour. From > Rosslea to Clones 15 Minutes. Newtownbutler to Clones 15 minutes. Dernawilt > Cross to Clones we cycled on a regular basis taking us about 45 minutes > depending who we met on the way. > > > Maureen > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog >

In reply to Thomas Moffat This is a huge anomoly for many people who do not know the area, but there is a huge difference today as opposed to prior to the separation of the 6 counties from the 26 Counties of Ireland. CLONES PARISH on the records up to the 1920's does not mean that the people lived in Clones in County Monaghan Every certificate I have , and I have at least a hundred of the Rosslea area show the PARISH as CLONES. but my ancesters come from Eshnadarragh, Corraleek and Corragunt, all very definitely in Fermanagh. In 1922 this changed to the UNION OF LISNASKEA on all certificates. The confusion is made even worse by the fact that west of Rosslea ie. Aghadrumsee, Newtownbutler etc where the CHURCH RECORDS were not held by individual churches, at least if they were they deny it, and you have to apply to the PARCOCHIAL HOUSE , THE SACRED HEART , CLONES. What I think is not realised is how small Fermanagh actually is and where the National Boundary lies between the NORTH and SOUTH of Ireland. In some cases and indeed as was on the farm I was brought up on ,the boundary was only a stream and the farm was actually straddling Fermanagh and Monaghan. Hence my comments in previous listings where I warned to watch out for this as the 'HUSBAND TO BE' only had to cross the fields to COURT his Bride to be. This also applies to LEITRIM, DONEGAL.CAVAN. all in the 26 Counties and TYRONE in the six Counties. To illustrate better perhaps, I could travel by car from Enniskillen to Clones taking the scenic route in under an hour. From Rosslea to Clones 15 Minutes. Newtownbutler to Clones 15 minutes. Dernawilt Cross to Clones we cycled on a regular basis taking us about 45 minutes depending who we met on the way. Maureen

Hi Janet, Regarding Maguire below are my family. On Anne's M cert she stated she came from Cleenish, and recently I have found out that one of Her grandchildren was named after the town they came from Clones. Any informaqtion regarding research and where I would be able to find further data would be much appriciated. Camille McEwen 1. Thomas McGUIRE. Thomas married Nancy (Ann) ARMSTRONG, in Ireland. They had one child: 2 i. Patrick (1795-1875) Second Generation 2. Patrick McGUIRE. Born in 1795 in Farmanagh IRELAND. Christened in Farmanagh IRELAND. Patrick died in Upper Bundamba Qld Australia on 18 Nov 1875, he was 80. Buried on 20 Nov 1875 in Ipswich Qld Australia. In 1821 when Patrick was 26, he married Anne McCORMACK, daughter of OWEN McCORMACK & Susan SMITH, in Fermanagh Ireland. Born in 1805 in Ireland. Anne died in Churchill Ipswich Qld Australia on 24 Oct 1864, she was 59. Buried on 26 Oct 1864 in Ipswich Cemetery Qld Australia. Notes for Patrick McGUIRE Assisted, Caroline 17 Nov 1853 Patrick 43, Ann 43 Susan 23, Andrew 20, Thomas17, Ann14, Rose 11 Patrick could not R/W Ann R Susan,Andrew, Thomas,Ann could R Rose could not R/W. Patrick's Parents dead , and cousin at Brisbane Waters DeathnCert states 26yrs in Qld & 80yrs old.Patrick must have been 58 when he arrived in Qld.All Birth dates have been changed as per death Cert on my records. They had the following children: 3 i. Susan (1830-1908) 4 ii. Andrew (1832-1913) 5 iii. Thomas (1836-) 6 iv. Rose (1839-) 7 v. Anne (1842-1925) On death certificate 5 other children all deceased inI reland Third Generation 3. Susan McGUIRE. Born in 1830 Fermanaugh Ireland. Susan died on 27 Dec 1908, she was 78. On 6 Oct 1856 when Susan was 26, she married Owen DALY, son of Timothy DALY & Catherine SULLIVAN, in St Mary Church Ipswich Qld Australia. Owen died on 5 Jun 1908. They had the following children: i. Bridget (1857-1937) ii. Eugene (1859-) iii. Owen ( Super ) (1859-) iv. Patrick (1860-1943) v. Anne (1861-1862) vi. Rose (1862-1937) vii. John (1865-1866) viii. Edward (Ted) Arthur (1869-) Married by Fr W McGinty Witnesses John Lackeyand Anne(X)McGuire Bride and Groom lived at Ipswich 4. Andrew McGUIRE. Born in 1832 Fermanagh Ireland. Christened in 1834. Andrew died on 15 Jun 1913, he was 81. Buried in Cemetery Ipswich Qld Australia. On 15 Jan 1861 when Andrew was 29, he married Margaret ( Maggie ) BURNS, daughter of John BURNS & Bridget NEYLAN (HEYLAN /HAYDON), in St Mary's Church Ispwich. Born in 1836. Margaret ( Maggie ) died on 5 Jun 1912, she was 76. Buried in Ipswich Cemetery Qld Australia. They had the following children: i. Mary Ann (1862-1864) ii. Bridget (1863-1938) iii. Susan (1865-) iv. Ellen ( Nell) (1867-1940) v. Patrick (Paddy) (1868-1940) vi. Mary Ann (1871-) vii. Margaret (1872-) viii. Owen Andrew (1874-) ix. John Joseph (1876-1944) x. Thomas Joseph (Tosh) (1877-1911) J 5. Thomas McGUIRE. Born in 1836 in Fermananagh Ireland. On 22 Jun 1858 when Thomas was 22, he married Ellen RYAN, daughter of Thomas RYAN (1815-10 Dec 1881) & Bridget (Biddy) HEFFERAN (1818-), in St Mary Church Ipswich Qld Australia. Born in 1840 in Tipperary Ireland. Ellen died in Ripley Ispwich Qld AQustralia on 7 Apr 1903, she was 63. Buried on 8 Apr 1903 in Ipswich Cemetery Qld Australia. They had the following children: i. Rose Anne (1859-1934) ii. Michael (1860-1921) iii. Andrew (1862-) iv. Bridget (1864-1939) v. Mary Ellen (Molly) (1866-1925) vi. Thomas Patrick (1868-1935) vii. John (1870-1871) viii. John (1872-1946) ix. James (1875-1875) x. Agnes (1876-) Andrew McGuire and Joanna Ryan Witnesses, Fr W McGinty 6. Rose McGUIRE. Born in 1839 in Fermanaugh Ireland. On 18 Jun 1861 when Rose was 22, she married Robert JOHNSTON, son of George JOHNSTON & Isabella LIDDEL, in St Mary Church Ipswich Qld Australia. Born in Fermanagh Ireland. Robert died. They had one child: i. Jane (1862-) Married by Fr W McGinty Both lived at Ipswich Witnesses Andrew McGuire & Ellen Mcguire 7. Anne McGUIRE. Born in 1842 in Cleenish Fermanaugh Ireland. Anne died on 23 Mar 1925, she was 83. Buried on 24 Mar 1925 in Drayton Toowoomba Qld Australia. Ship: Arrived at Morten Bay 14 Nov 1853 "Caroline". On 16 Aug 1858 when Anne was 16, she married Dennis CREEDY/CREADY, son of Owen CREEDY/CREADY & Winnifred BARRY, in St Mary's Ipswich Qld. Born in 1835 in Knockatour Inagh Clare Ireland. Dennis died in Toowoomba Qld Australia on 12 Feb 1911, he was 76. Buried on 13 Feb 1911 in Drayton Toowoomba Qld Australia. Ship: Arrived Moreton Bay Qld Australia 16 Sep 1856 New Great Brittian. They had the following children: i. John Patrick (1859-1912) ii. Rose (1861-) iii. Owen (1864-1904) iv. Andrew James (1866-1936) v. Thomas Francis (1868-1925) vi. Mary Ann (1871-1960) vii. Winfred Susan (?1874-) viii. Bridget Margaret (1876-1943) ix. Agnes Johanna (1878-1969) Married by Fr W MCGinty Witnesses Andrew McGuire Rose(X) McGuire -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, 12 May 2001 0:07 Subject: FERMANAGH-D Digest V01 #101

Hi list Reading the latest messages about places in Fermanagh, can I just remind you that Bud Flanagan's places information has been placed on Fermanagh Gold, Resources section. Over 3,000 places are in the database giving type of place (this might be a church, graveyard, townland etc) usually an OS map grid reference. This search is called Place Finder and can be reached here http://www.fermanagh.org.uk/genealogy/resources/placerecs.asp Another similar search called Family Search by Place where you click a link to any alphabetical letter. This then gives you a complete list of places beginning with that letter. Organising the search like this allows you to see the spelling variations for some. Choose a place name and click the link - you will see a complete list of people associated with that place name. This search can only be found in the Fermanagh Friends section. Hope this helps Jan

re request for details Pray for the soul of James Wallace Caramaculla, died 16th March 1963 also his wife Bridget died12th January 1967 Maureen

Hi Bud... I am looking for the KIRKPATRICK's.. The townland is Drumhack(which is in the Parish of Aghalurcher, Co of Fermanagh, from what I can find)...At least that is where some of them were born.. Thanks in advance.. Bonnie Kirkpatrick in the Thumb of Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: "william flanagan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 10:06 AM Subject: Names associated with townlands > Suggestion; Due to tne total number of townlands within co Fermanagh, can > we do this on an "As requested " schedule. > > If someone asks, I will print it to Fermanagh-L site with a c/c to you., for > each townland requested. > > > > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 >

HI, I hope by now most of you will have seen Jan's great Job of getting the map on the web page. My Printer has decided that Sunday is a day of rest as has the manufacturers EPSON so I have not been able to print it off there but the scan looks great and very clear to me. Thank you Jan. Now I wonder how many other people have information, they have checked and forgotten about, which could prove to be the Crown Jewels to someone else. Maureen

Maureen- I too would pay for a copy of the townland map. You may have started a small industry. Thank you, Jack John M.Shiels Mendham, NJ Researching BESSON,CHARDON (Switzerland 1600-1900 ) SHIEL(S),GALLAGHER(Mayo,Ire. 1700-1900 SCOTT (Eng.Manchester/Salford1860-1890)(Ire.1700-1800s) KELLY (Eng.Manchester/Salford1860-1890)(Ire.1700-1800s) KENNEDY(Eng.Liverpool/Lancs 1850-1900/ Ireland 1700,1800s) GIBBONS( Eng.Liverpool/Lancs 1850-1900/ Ireland 1700,1800s) 11:46 AM May 13, 2001

Helen This is the inscription Pray for the soul of Patrick Carey Artinagh who died 23rd November 1938. Also his nephew John Carey, died 30th September 1938.Also his brother Philip died 30th March 1939. Writing this made me feel very sad for that family Maureen

Suggestion; Due to tne total number of townlands within co Fermanagh, can we do this on an "As requested " schedule. If someone asks, I will print it to Fermanagh-L site with a c/c to you., for each townland requested.

Would anyone know if any parts of the 1841 census for Fermanagh (Ederney) survived and if so where could one access them? I am looking for John McCaffery and Wife Mary (Muldoon) thought to be still alive in 1841 and living in Ederney. Many thanks, Joan -Sydney

Hello list Following the threads and the great interest shown in Maureen's map, she has kindly sent me a scan which I've published on a temporary page on Fermangh Gold so you can see the content. Go to http://www.fermanagh.org.uk/genealogy/resources/fermmap.htm Hope this helps. Further enquires to Maureen please! Jan

Hi Maureen, I have the Goodwin / Gudden inscriptions - I'll post them once I've dug them up (the incriptions, that is) from my files regards Michael Goodwin p.s. What scale is the map please ? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 12 May 2001 17:49 Subject: Donagh Headstones > The only inscriptions I have are the ones I mentioned, for the rest all I > have is the number of the headstone in the graveyard. ie. A1 B2 etc. > > On the request on McBryan that stone reads > > Erected by PATRICK BEGGAN of Eshnadarragh in memory of his wife MARGERY > BEGGAN alias McBRYAN > who departed this life 3rd February 1811 aged 62 years. Also Thomas Beggan of > Coolnashillagh who dept. this life on 6th January 1893 aged 84 years. > > Maureen > > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > >

Could SKS please, please help me find my great great grandmother Mary Mc Cart Her husband was John Bannon they had a son Patrick (a mason and built houses in Lisbelaw) and a daughter Isabella (m. Doran and had a confectionary shop in Tempo) Thank you for any help!!!!! Ellen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Maureen.. You can add me to that list too...I am looking for a place called Strawhorne..it might be a manor home, but it could also be a townland located near Wheathill which is just southeast of Enniskillen. My Maguire's are from Enniskillen, but fled and settled in Cavan. The Other Maureen.(Maloney) At 01:22 PM 5/12/2001 -0400, [email protected] wrote: >Thank you all for offering to pay for this map but I , number one don't think >it will be necessary, number 2 I will be only too happy to send it if I >cannot get it right on e-mail. > >I have tried it out by sending it to my husbands e-mail address and it is >pretty good and legible on there so I expect that when I get it improved it >will be fine. My daughter-in-law is an IT specialist so I will avail myself >of her experience. I know it is difficult but give me a little time. > >Maureen > > >============================== >Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate >your heritage! >http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog

Thank you all for offering to pay for this map but I , number one don't think it will be necessary, number 2 I will be only too happy to send it if I cannot get it right on e-mail. I have tried it out by sending it to my husbands e-mail address and it is pretty good and legible on there so I expect that when I get it improved it will be fine. My daughter-in-law is an IT specialist so I will avail myself of her experience. I know it is difficult but give me a little time. Maureen