My thanks to all who responded to my question about the half-siblings in an ancestor book printout. I appreciate hearing from all of you, and thank you all for responding. To the one among you who prefers sarcasm and snide remarks over resolving problems (or at least trying to), I can only say that it takes TWO to pick an argument, and one of them is now out of it. I hope things get better for you real soon. David MSgt David E. Cann, USMC (Ret'd) Phone: 540-372-7868 Fax: 540-372-7707 E-mail: decann@infi.net HOME PAGES Family: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann Genealogy: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann/genealogy I'm a RootsWeb Sponsor. Ask me how you can be one, too. Researching Bradford, Brewer, Cann, Cashatt, Ewing, Fitch, Linson, Markley, Merkle, Oliver, Redkey, Schottler, Shockey and Vance surnames and any others related by birth, marriage or adoption.

This is one of many problems with 1/2 siblings. Several reports have incorrect parentage and others exclude individuals. Many bug reports have been issued on this subject, here and in other forums. Usage of the decendant reports leaves a big hole in solving this problem. That is you must choose a single starting ancestor. This excludes many others from the intermarriage lines. As for the report tite, that is easily changed during the report setup. I have not played with the Adopted facts and multiple parentages, so I cannot comment on how it works. Based on other messages tonight, this does not solve the issue. This leaves only one way I can think of to create the desired report. That is to modify the data for this individual and use Notes to explain the truth. Link the individual to the same parents as the other siblings. If this is done, I recommend these changes be in a copy of the original database. For those who want to reopen the "adoption" debate - NO - KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. This is a methodolgy discussion to generate a specific report for specific conditions. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Cann" <decann@infi.net> To: <FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:10 PM Subject: [FO] Ancestor Book > I have just printed out an "Ancestor Book" for my wife's line, with the > "Ancestors and children" option selected, but when I printed out the > document, my wife noticed right away that her half-sister (same father, > different mother) was left out of the printed document, with only her five > "full" siblings included. I have never noticed this before, but is this > normal? Is there a way of "forcing" FO (I am using 9.02) to include such a > family member? > > This sister (they NEVER use the "half," even though it is correct) and her > father were abandoned by her mother not long after her birth, and when her > father then married my wife's mother, the family has always gone to great > lengths to include her in the "new family" in every way, and this printout > has presented me with some problems. This sister and my wife have the same > father but different mother, but it seems to me that printing out my wife's > ancestors and their children should include this half-sister. If my wife's > father is her ancestor, and this half sister is one of his children, then > why can't she be included in such a report? > > We are going to a family reunion tomorrow and I would like to be able to > take a report that includes ALL of my wife's ancestors and ALL of their > children ("half" or "full"), but am I asking for something that cannot be > done? I welcome any suggestions from anyone. I realize time is short now, > but I hadn't anticipated something like this. > > David > > MSgt David E. Cann, USMC (Ret'd) > Phone: 540-372-7868 > Fax: 540-372-7707 > E-mail: decann@infi.net > > HOME PAGES > Family: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann > Genealogy: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann/genealogy > > I'm a RootsWeb Sponsor. Ask me how you can be one, too. > > Researching Bradford, Brewer, Cann, Cashatt, Ewing, Fitch, Linson, Markley, > Merkle, Oliver, Redkey, Schottler, Shockey and Vance surnames and any > others related by birth, marriage or adoption. > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > PLEASE send personal replies and "THANK YOU" message privately. All messages on this list are archived and archiving takes up valuable space. > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Thank you David, Your question was reasonable, although the solution isn't an easy one. Now, if the rest of you will hold comments on the appropriateness or "political correctness" of doing it one way or the other, and focus on a way that we can help each other with problems, then this will be a happy list. And if another would help me add the two and the six in the number 26, then maybe my math would come out right. (my fingers don't seem to know what I am trying to say <};-) the Family-Origins-Users-Mailing list administrator Alfred Eller =============== ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Cann" <decann@infi.net> > My thanks to all who responded to my question about the half-siblings in an > ancestor book printout. I appreciate hearing from all of you, and thank > you all for responding. > > To the one among you who prefers sarcasm and snide remarks over resolving > problems (or at least trying to), I can only say that it takes TWO to pick > an argument, and one of them is now out of it. I hope things get better > for you real soon. > > David >

>It is just totally absurd to say that it is improper to show an >adopted child as a child in her adopted family. It is if she is NOT "an adopted child." She is my motherin-law's stepdaughter and father-in-law's daughter. They never had to worry about such legal requirements back then, but sadly, times have sure change that! David <clip> MSgt David E. Cann, USMC (Ret'd) Phone: 540-372-7868 Fax: 540-372-7707 E-mail: decann@infi.net Family home page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann

Why do we need the sarcasm????? I simply asked a question about whether or not it was possible to do this, and it seems it is not (yet) without altering the facts, so can we simply go on without the snide remarks (this time)?? Certain folks on this list seem to have quite a knack for doing that. . . . . . . . . . David *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 06/09/2001, at 8:02 PM, Henry Wheeler wrote: >Wow, you have convinced me. Only the exact correct, NGS, LSMFT, >approved method should be used....... Too bad my biological mother was >addicted to diet pills and my father came down with tuberculosis! Oh >well, must do correct thing. > >Henry <clip> MSgt David E. Cann, USMC (Ret'd) Phone: 540-372-7868 Fax: 540-372-7707 E-mail: decann@infi.net Family home page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann

"Paul Smith" <prsmith@pdq.net> wrote: >A child will print out under her natural >parents and not under a step parent (unless the pedigree has >been falsified of course) and it would be improper for it to >display otherwise. It is just totally absurd to say that it is improper to show an adopted child as a child in her adopted family. People who are adopted and people who adopt children consider them the same as their own children and the children also consider themselves to be just as much a part of that family as any of the rest. To say that they should not be there is nothing but crass insensitivity and I for one am getting tired of hearing this same old broken record. Wayne League

Alfred, The general consensus so far seems to agree with you, and with hindsight, I am wishing now that I had printed a book of descendants of "the old warlord" in Wales in 1302, rather than my wife and her ancestors. She has really worked hard, though, getting all of this information before the reunion tomorrow, and the book looks nice with "Ancestors of. . . . . . . . " at the top of the page. I am still holding out against hope that one of the "resident experts" on this list can come up with a way of doing it with an Ancestor Book, but it does not look hopeful at this point. It would be an interesting option for version 11, though (Bruce, are ya' listenin'???), IMHO. Unless that happens, I will begin printing a "Descendants of" book of the ol' Welch warlord soon, since the reunion is tomorrow and I am too stubborn to modify my genealogy to read something that is not correct <g>. David *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 06/09/2001, at 7:02 PM, Alfred Eller wrote: >I have noted this too. If you do a descendant list she will show up, but >there is no way, at present, to get half siblings to show up on an ancestor >list. > <snip> MSgt David E. Cann, USMC (Ret'd) Phone: 540-372-7868 Fax: 540-372-7707 E-mail: decann@infi.net Family home page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann

Everyone seems to be missing my point. In FO you can enter TWO sets of parents for anyone. This is for the express purpose of getting adopted children to show up in the reports of their adopted families as well as in their birth families. If you highlight the child who is not showing in the ancestor's children, and enter another set of parents for her - - her real father and her step-mother in this case -- then she WILL show up in the ancestor book if you choose to include the children of the ancestors. Wayne League

ROFL ROLLING ON FLOOR LAUGHING!!!!!!!! BRAVO WAYNE LEAGUE.............BRAVO WAYNE LEAGUE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Family Origins is a good program, there......... I mentioned using Family Origins. Henry

True, but he wants an ancestor book and not a descendant book. The child should be listed under her biological parents but I would think that all wives/children could be shown appropriately on the report. -- Happy Hunting!! -- Paul Houston, TX, USA ICQ #73314929 Researching: VA - WHITE,LIPSCOMB,HILL,JOHNSON,SAUNDERS, TALBOT,TATE,EVANS NC - SMITH, BOSWELL, RHODES, CAPEHART,MORRIS, MARSHE, BRITT,SHAW View my American Ancestry at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~paulrsmith **************** FREE Credit Card Referral Program. Quick money AND residual, lifetime income! CHECK IT OUT !! http://smithecomservices.tripod.com ***************************************

Wow, you have convinced me. Only the exact correct, NGS, LSMFT, approved method should be used....... Too bad my biological mother was addicted to diet pills and my father came down with tuberculosis! Oh well, must do correct thing. Henry

No, since the first "wife" wasn't related to your wife, she wouldn't show up so the child of that union would necessarily show up under the wrong parents. OTOH, maybe Bruce can cook up something appropriate. I have seen printouts that looked like this: Jane SMITH = Fred JONES = Mary BROWN with the children listed under the equal signs. That would work nicely. -- Happy Hunting!! -- Paul Houston, TX, USA ICQ #73314929 Researching: VA - WHITE,LIPSCOMB,HILL,JOHNSON,SAUNDERS, TALBOT,TATE,EVANS NC - SMITH, BOSWELL, RHODES, CAPEHART,MORRIS, MARSHE, BRITT,SHAW View my American Ancestry at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~paulrsmith **************** FREE Credit Card Referral Program. Quick money AND residual, lifetime income! CHECK IT OUT !! http://smithecomservices.tripod.com ***************************************

> but when I printed out the document, my wife noticed right > away that her half-sister (same father, different mother) was > left out of the printed document, with only her five "full" > siblings included. As has been discussed many times on this list, this is normal behavior. A child will print out under her natural parents and not under a step parent (unless the pedigree has been falsified of course) and it would be improper for it to display otherwise. Add the half-sister in the father's notes and/or print out a separate report showing the natural parents. Displaying both pedigrees would show the step relationship. -- Happy Hunting!! -- Paul Houston, TX, USA ICQ #73314929 Researching: VA - WHITE,LIPSCOMB,HILL,JOHNSON,SAUNDERS, TALBOT,TATE,EVANS NC - SMITH, BOSWELL, RHODES, CAPEHART,MORRIS, MARSHE, BRITT,SHAW View my American Ancestry at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~paulrsmith **************** FREE Credit Card Referral Program. Quick money AND residual, lifetime income! CHECK IT OUT !! http://smithecomservices.tripod.com ***************************************

>If you want her also in the book then enter a second set of parents >for her . . . her father and his other wife. Both she and her father ARE there, correctly entered with no mother listed (the family will not talk about her, since she abandoned them, and I don't even know her name), but she does NOT show up in the Ancestor Book. This is what prompted my question. If I specified "ancestors and children," shouldn't my wife's father and all of his children show up??? David *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 06/09/2001, at 5:29 PM, Wayne League wrote: >"David E. Cann" <decann@infi.net> wrote: > >>I have just printed out an "Ancestor Book" for my wife's line, with the >>"Ancestors and children" option selected, but when I printed out the >>document, my wife noticed right away that her half-sister (same father, >>different mother) was left out of the printed document, with only her five >>"full" siblings included. <snip> MSgt David E. Cann, USMC (Ret'd) Phone: 540-372-7868 Fax: 540-372-7707 E-mail: decann@infi.net Family home page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann

At 07:29 PM 6/9/01, you wrote: >"David E. Cann" <decann@infi.net> wrote: > > >I have just printed out an "Ancestor Book" for my wife's line, with the > >"Ancestors and children" option selected, but when I printed out the > >document, my wife noticed right away that her half-sister (same father, > >different mother) was left out of the printed document, with only her five > >"full" siblings included. > >If you want her also in the book then enter a second set of parents >for her . . . her father and his other wife. > >Wayne League Sounds to me like an extra operation when it shouldn't be necessary. When running a Descendant chart, both mothers will be picked up and the chart will appear like David speaks of, including all family members. --Derick

I have noted this too. If you do a descendant list she will show up, but there is no way, at present, to get half siblings to show up on an ancestor list. Everyone has two parents, 4 grandparents 26 g-grandparents - etc (My math skills just ran out <};-) There is no room for anyone extra on a normal ancestor sheet. BUT, if you send your ancestor book to an RTF file, then you can add the half sister by hand before printing. (Or fudge a little and attach her as a full sibling too, she can have more than one set of parents in FOW, But I would add a note of some sort.) Good Luck, Alfred ========= ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Cann" <decann@infi.net> > >If you want her also in the book then enter a second set of parents > >for her . . . her father and his other wife. > > Both she and her father ARE there, correctly entered with no mother listed > (the family will not talk about her, since she abandoned them, and I don't > even know her name), but she does NOT show up in the Ancestor Book. This > is what prompted my question. If I specified "ancestors and children," > shouldn't my wife's father and all of his children show up??? > > David > =========

Hello David, I can empathise, I have half brothers, and I was adopted by a cousin. I tried to make my version 8 do something on "Ancestor book with children" and all it will do is the one main person and then show the ancestors of that person with the siblings of hers. What I would do is enter the half sister as a full sister for the purpose of the report you want. It does sound to me, like you want somekind of hour glass report. Since I am my own cousin, I made a pedigree chart where I changed my sex, entered me as a spouse, entered me again as a child and on a six generation chart it would show both my original family and my adopted family, (the overlapping branch appears twice) It's you program make it say what you want to. Henry

Sounds like you need to enter a marriage event for the "unknown" wife. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Cann" <decann@infi.net> To: <FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [FO] Ancestor Book > >If you want her also in the book then enter a second set of parents > >for her . . . her father and his other wife. > > Both she and her father ARE there, correctly entered with no mother listed > (the family will not talk about her, since she abandoned them, and I don't > even know her name), but she does NOT show up in the Ancestor Book. This > is what prompted my question. If I specified "ancestors and children," > shouldn't my wife's father and all of his children show up??? > > David > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 06/09/2001, at 5:29 PM, Wayne League wrote: > > >"David E. Cann" <decann@infi.net> wrote: > > > >>I have just printed out an "Ancestor Book" for my wife's line, with the > >>"Ancestors and children" option selected, but when I printed out the > >>document, my wife noticed right away that her half-sister (same father, > >>different mother) was left out of the printed document, with only her > five > >>"full" siblings included. > <snip> > > MSgt David E. Cann, USMC (Ret'd) > Phone: 540-372-7868 > Fax: 540-372-7707 > E-mail: decann@infi.net > Family home page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~decann > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the word: UNSUBSCRIBE(inside the message) and no additional text to: FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS-L-request@rootsweb.com or FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS-D-request@rootsweb.com for DIGEST > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > >

"David E. Cann" <decann@infi.net> wrote: >I have just printed out an "Ancestor Book" for my wife's line, with the >"Ancestors and children" option selected, but when I printed out the >document, my wife noticed right away that her half-sister (same father, >different mother) was left out of the printed document, with only her five >"full" siblings included. If you want her also in the book then enter a second set of parents for her . . . her father and his other wife. Wayne League

"Stanley Harder" <stan@smharder.com> wrote: >Any chance there's a tool in FO for deleting a family and all it's >descendants? I copied over a person and all descendants with spouses, >without knowing how many individuals were involved. I should have specified >only 2 generations and didn't. Now I have added 4,783 additional individuals >in my database of 10,000 that I don't want there. (Yes, I could go back to >backup but don't have one from the last week or so. Don't know how many >other changes I could lose.) Ideas? > If you choose to select people to drag & drop to a new database; then you first mark everyone in the database and then highlight one of the persons you copied over and unmark everyone related to that highlighted person. This actually unmarks everyone in the tree which you just copied over, not necessarily just people related to that person. The people left marked that will be copied over to the new database should be only the ones that were in your database to start with. Wayne League