Dear Bruce Have just read some of the messages about transferring from Family Origins to your new program via Gedcom. Would it be possible to keep the original Family Origins record numbers and not have the records renumbered when transferring to the new program via Gedcom I transfer Databases from `Family Origins` to `Legacy` and have the option in this program to retain my original record numbers in `Legacy` so both database have the same record numbers. This feature is very important to me as my Database is accessed by users all around the world and I need to keep the record numbers the same. Best Wishes Ray Long St Leonards on Sea East Sussex England Contact me via MSN Messenger [email protected] See part of the Cosford Database at http://www.cosford-database.co.uk Webmaster for the Suffolk Surnames List http://www.suffolksurnames.plus.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 24/07/2002

"David R. Holloway" <[email protected]> wrote: >I have baulked at tangling with >GEDCOMS. It now seems that I have no choice but to get my feet wet so how >best can this be done without wading through the full GEDCOM spec Well, I'm pretty sure you don't want to read the 'gedcom spec' ... it would be easier to read a lawyer document or some rules pamphlet put out by the government. <g> There's not much problem transferring basic genealogical data via gedcom files. It's when you get fancy by creating user defined facts or moving data between different genealogy programs that have features different from each other that some of the data in the fringe areas get missed. Start by exporting a gedcom from FO of just a few people. FO will do all the work ... all you have to do is select which people you want to export from the selection dialog. Then import the gedcom into a new database in FO. You can compare the new database next to the old database and see how well it did. That's your start ... you can go from there! Wayne League

Thank you so much Wayne I am getting more and more proficient with Word Perfect all the time...As a matter of fact I have waited all day for my wizard to show up so I can get my printer and speakers hooked up...so I got tired of trying to make all my place names as uniform as possible so I went to a program he gave me called paper port and scanned in my first page from a very old (18 page)index I printed out (in dot matrix)all caps because whatever program I created it with would not do non caps as I recall and now I can conceivably do the entire index without a whole bunch of typing...I have been trying to get this done for years(More than 4 years now) Any way ,I guess that pretty much answers my question and it is now up to me to decide what to do with them as I said before I have 155 of them and some are 0-1kb but some are 11,900 kb and I am sure glad I have 100 gigs to play with,so not to seem really stupid what is meant by specs as far as .lst is concerned??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne League" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [FO] Gedcom up to speed > "Sandra E. T. Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >Ok I am trying to keep up really I am > >Please tell me where to find > >specs for .lst and MSWord > > Whenever you import a gedcom file into FO there will be a .LST file > with the same name as the gedcom file. It will be a text file in the > same folder as the database you have imported into and it will contain > a list of errors or items in the gedcom file that FO did not recognize > and therefore did not import. It will list them by line number in the > gedcom file so you can open the gedcom file in a text editor alongside > of the .LST file, and go to each line that FO missed and see what it > was. > > MSWord is one of the two major word processor programs that most > people use. The other one is Word Perfect. > > Wayne League > > > > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > FAMILY ORIGINS - Ordering, UPDATES, books, FAQ, FREE DEMO, Newsletter, etc. http://formalsoft.com For the 8.03 and 9.02 PATCHES and what they fix, go to: http://formalsoft.com/files.htm >

"Dick Wells" <[email protected]> wrote: >Please explain how this works since FOW neither writes or reads record >numbers in a GEDCOM file. Actually, FOW *does* write the individuals' record numbers into the gedcom file and they are the same as in the database. It is when FOW imports the gedcom that the record numbers may be changed, for FOW ignores the record numbers in a gedcom file when importing and starts with the first individual as number one and continues sequentially. Legacy, on the other hand, can be told to retain the record numbers from the gedcom file or to do it sequentially like FO does. Knowing this, you could use Legacy's superior duplicate finding abilities by exporting a gedcom from FO and importing it into Legacy, letting it retain the individual record numbers. You could not import a merged file back into FO flawlessly but you could have Legacy create a list of the duplicates and their record numbers and then you could use the record numbers on that list to locate the duplicates to merge back in FO. Wayne League

I just went over to look at my new Version 5 of The Master Genealogist. The ID number as well as the other data seems to be the same as in Family Origins. I imported the data from the FO backup. It took hours to do it. But all seems to be ok so far. Now if I only knew how to use the program. I bought it when I was trying to decide what program to use when changing from PAF. I chose Family Origins at the time, but have kept the other programs updated for various reasons. Betty

I disagree a bit with Dick on this one, David. Gedcoms are nothing to fear. FOW automatically produces a lovely gedcom and the help section can get you through any bumps you might encounter. That said, there's nothing wrong with exporting and importing some practice gedcoms to get the feel and you do want to learn what a .lst file is and what it looks like but read the spec?, don't bother. Did you read the spec for MSWord? Of course not, you went to the help section when you needed to learn to do something. Try it, you'll like it. Paul David R. Holloway wrote: > Dick Wells said: > >> A word of advice to those not really up to speed on GEDCOM's - learn > everything you can and practice importing and exporting. Learn about > the LST (error) file and it's messages too. < > > Oh dear. > > My interest is in Family History and to accomodate that I try to > understand every which-way of Family Origins but I have baulked at > tangling with GEDCOMS. It now seems that I have no choice but to get > my feet wet so how best can this be done without wading through the > full GEDCOM spec (which I assume is available somewhere? > > David

Dick, transfer files from Legacy to FO regularly and the record numbers in Legacy, both for individuals and for marriages, are preserved in FO. I went back into Legacy to see if there was a specific selection to transfer record numbers and there is not. I know that Legacy, when importing a gedcom, gives you the option to "preserve" the imported record numbers. Alfred or Wayne might know more about this but I suspect gedcom DOES transfer these numbers in some fashion and we're lucky enough to be using a program that knows what to do with them. Jim 7/27/2002 3:28:03 PM, "Dick Wells" <[email protected]> wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ray Long" <[email protected]> > >> >> I transfer Databases from `Family Origins` to `Legacy` and have the >option in this program to retain my original record numbers in `Legacy` so >both database have the same record numbers. >> > >Please explain how this works since FOW neither writes or reads record >numbers in a GEDCOM file. > > >==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== >FAMILY ORIGINS - Ordering, UPDATES, books, FAQ, FREE DEMO, Newsletter, etc. http://formalsoft.com For the 8.03 and 9.02 PATCHES and what they fix, go to: http://formalsoft.com/files.htm > >

There a number of shareware and freeware utilities that allow you to reprogram any keyboard. Look around at ZDNet, CNet, PC World, or AOL download files. Thom Richardson

----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Smith" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FO] Gedcom up to speed <snip> > do want to learn what a .lst file is and what it looks like > but read the spec?, don't bother. Did you read the spec for > MSWord? Of course not, you went to the help section when > you needed to learn to do something. <snip> Ok I am trying to keep up really I am Please tell me where to find specs for .lst and MSWord I have 155 on my computer and they are taking up a lot of space and a Google search nor a windows help search is not producing much<big sheepish grin here!!!> SANDRA TYLER DUNCAN Sacramento,CA http://www.gencircles.com/users/purplevw1/1/ http://www.progenealogists.com/genealogysleuthb.htm all my mail scanned by Norton Below is the only place that will accept attachments [email protected]

> My interest is in Family History and to accomodate that I try to understand > every which-way of Family Origins but I have baulked at tangling with > GEDCOMS. It now seems that I have no choice but to get my feet wet so how > best can this be done without wading through the full GEDCOM spec (which I > assume is available somewhere? > You are not alone, but are missing the biggest tool for sharing data, both incoming from another and sending to interested reseachers. Here are some simple recommendations: Start out small - export (the term for writing a GEDCOM) one for your immdiate family, the import (the term for reading a GEDCOM) into a test database. Look at the results. Did everything get transferred? Did you get all the individuals you expected? Next review the LST file. This is the transaction and error file created during import. It will have the same name as your GEDCOM file. Example Test.ged is your GEDCOM, then the name will be Test.lst. Next, try downloading a GEDCOM from the Mormon site (http://www.familysearch.org/). It doesn't matter if the person picked is family or not, this is for learning. You could search for some of your family and may find something useful. Again, check your LST file. Now just expand the sizes and selection methods for creating files. The process is the same as for the reports. Add in GEDCOM's from different sources such as Legacy, PAF, and FTM for an understanding. Remember, each program "complies" to the standards, but the implementations are slightly different. Example PAF does not support Fact Notes and Sources - everything is a General Note and Source. Many utilities exist for "converting" GEDCOM's from one program to another. All they are really doing is taking the exceptions in the implementation from one program to another. Basically minor changes to the created file. For specific questions, feel free to ask the group for help. We all were at your point at one time. Dick

That is basically the numbering system a lot of doctors use -- 1st 3 letters and then sequential numbers. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Betty Stokes" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [FO] ID numbers for pictures/documents Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:15:36 -0500 I was interested in the Dollarhide numbering system. I have a paper copy of the system. He had a program during the DOS days, but it was purchased and absorbed by another program. His system based on a combination of Ahnentaphel/Pedigree and the Henry System. A person would have to decide on who was going to be the beginning number - themselves or their children and go from there. Even the inlaws and step children got numbers. That would require keeping a list of the numbers even if they were logical. When I first used PAF Version 1.0, a very nice book came with it which gave instructions for numbering your documents. They suggested using the first 3 letters of each surname (or a unique first 3 letters) and adding the numbers sequentially. Unfortunately, I am not that well organized and didn't keep up either system. Betty ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== Searchable ARCHIVES - (might wrap so you have to type in part of the name, or copy and paste) http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Anne (Percival) Kruszka _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

> I thought I remembered from a past discussion on a similar topic that > one could duplicate the record number to a REFN number that was a fact and > the number would not change unless the user changed it. Of course, with a > large database, it could be time consuming to make the new fact and add the > number, but depending on the situation, it might be worthwhile to do this. Another unsupported way (ie - not approved by Formal Soft) is to add this info to the appropiate FOW database file. This is done by opening the "p" database and and copying the list of record numbers using a relational database program such as FoxPro. This list is then used to build the appropiate fact template and make one for each record number, and adding these records to the fact database. To build the fact template, add the fact to only the first individual in your database and examine the results. I use a simple BASIC program to read the list from the above step and create each record according to the template. Typical time to do this is less than 30 minutes. WARNINGS AND DISCLAIMER Do not attempt to do this on an unprotected database. Always use a copy of your data. Do not attempt this unless you know how to use your relational database program. Do not attempt this unless you can write and test the program creating your input file.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Long" <[email protected]> > > I transfer Databases from `Family Origins` to `Legacy` and have the option in this program to retain my original record numbers in `Legacy` so both database have the same record numbers. > Please explain how this works since FOW neither writes or reads record numbers in a GEDCOM file.

I have not been following this discussion very carefully since I am on vacation. I thought I remembered from a past discussion on a similar topic that one could duplicate the record number to a REFN number that was a fact and the number would not change unless the user changed it. Of course, with a large database, it could be time consuming to make the new fact and add the number, but depending on the situation, it might be worthwhile to do this. The one way to reuse record numbers in FO is to export a gedcom of your database, delete the old one if you want the new one to have the same name, and import the gedcom into a new database. That way everything is renumbered sequentially without missing numbers. I do this occasionally as a super form of packing, believing it helps to keep my database healthy. Margaret Scheffler

please remove me from list: [email protected]

Another method that is good for e-mail would be to put in to a "Signature " that can be inserted when desired. Rod ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 11:21 AM Subject: [FO] Gedcom instructions > In a message dated 07/27/2002 7:34:58 AM Central Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > > I have one key on my keyboard programmed to send this message with every > > > GEDCOM file I send: > > > Alfred, please tell me how you programmed that key. Thanks. > > Jane Lindsey Tift, > <A HREF="http://www.familyorigins.com/users/t/i/f/Jane-L-Tift/">Family Origins Genealogy Site: User Home Pages: Searching for the Descendants > o</A>f My Ancestors > > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > My very basic Windows beginners help: http://freepages.computers.rootsweb.com/~adelr/index.htm > basic HTML: http://freepages.computers.rootsweb.com/~pasher/ >

I was interested in the Dollarhide numbering system. I have a paper copy of the system. He had a program during the DOS days, but it was purchased and absorbed by another program. His system based on a combination of Ahnentaphel/Pedigree and the Henry System. A person would have to decide on who was going to be the beginning number - themselves or their children and go from there. Even the inlaws and step children got numbers. That would require keeping a list of the numbers even if they were logical. When I first used PAF Version 1.0, a very nice book came with it which gave instructions for numbering your documents. They suggested using the first 3 letters of each surname (or a unique first 3 letters) and adding the numbers sequentially. Unfortunately, I am not that well organized and didn't keep up either system. Betty

>> "Same Sex unions cannot produce offspring" >> >> Sorry but that is UTTER TRIPE It is? Please explain how a same sex couple can produce a child. It is (so far) physiologically impossible. >> Using IVF (In Vitro fertilisation or Test Tube babies), both mixed >> sex and same sex couples can produce a baby. False. The only way (so far) to produce a baby is by fertilizing an egg with a sperm. Since a man is still required to produce a sperm and a female is required to produce an egg, only a male/female couple can produce offspring. >> Whether a child had 2, 3 or 4 parents is surely somewhat irrelevant? EVERY child has precisely two parents - one male and one female. Everything else is a footnote. >> I am English and born in Leeds, Yorkshire, England, I can only quote >> what I see as the English law situation. I cannot quote any US or >> other law. Laws are made by man; children are made by God and his tools are a man and a woman. >> If I had a lesbian or homosexual sibling (I do not in fact!) I would >> want any self respecting Genealogical or FH program to reflect facts >> and life. Pun intended <grin> If that sibling (pseudo) had a same >> sex partner and produced a child by, say, IVF using the egg of one >> of the partners or from both even, and that egg(s) was/were >> fertilised by a donor, what would you want your favourite program to >> reflect those FACTS? Only as a side-note. The donor and ONE of the same-sex partners are the parents. Where the donor is unknown, nothing but an empty space in the pedigree is appropriate. >> Questions for you: >> >> 1) Is Family Origins vers. 10 a Genealogical program or a Family >> History program? Yes. >> I know I jest in places here, but it is a serious subject and FO 10 >> should allow me to input same sex partnerships and any offspring. It will (as a note) but that doesn't change the fact that there are NO offspring of a same sex marriage. Only a child care arrangement. >> My niece has had twin sons by IVF. In this case her husband is almost >> certainly the father biological and legal. HE MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN. >> How would you want Family Origins to reflect the possible doubt here? What doubt? Was he the sperm donor or was he not? Are you suggesting that the sperm of TWO men were mixed? Then the only way to determine who was the father is via DNA mapping. >> Family tree programs MUST not be allowed to moralise. They NEED IMHO >> to reflect facts and possibly my perception of the percentage >> probability that X is the father of Z. Programs don't moralize - people do. FO provides adequate flexibility for any circumstance. >> In the case of IVF (British inventions rule OK, dyslexia rules KO) >> only the consultant and his staff MIGHT know the father's name. In >> the case of AID the actual parents and the child might NEVER know >> the father's name. Yes? And? Known or unknown, there is still only ONE set of biological parents and if medicine/law prohibits the release of the natural father's name then dad's slot in the pedigree remains empty. >> I want my fave program to reflect actuality, not throw up its hands >> and crash or fail to obey my wishes. Reality (genealogy) is a mother and a father. All else (adoption, foster parents, ward of the court, etc.) is important historically and should be noted. It should not, however, be reflected in the pedigree since none are genealogical events. Fortunately, FOW knows the rules.

Message text written by INTERNET:[email protected] >Since I had no intention of ever leaving FO for any other genealogy program I named my files using FO's record number of the (an) individual in the picture. This system has worked great for me (and for at least one other person who came up with it). However I understand that the only way to transport our databases to Rootsmate is by Gedcom effectively rendering my filenames meaningless for the most part since a lot of record numbers will change. If I had never deleted an individual or performed a merge of two individuals the record numbers would possibly make it through intact but as you might imagine that is not the case.< >Can anyone think of a workaround for this problem short of renaming a thousand+ graphics files or keeping the existing, soon-to-be meaningless, filenames? Will there possibly be any other way to transport our databases to Rootsmate other than a Gedcom?< As others have noted, merely packing the database which needs to be done from time to time would cause the same record number change problem. From time to time FO operation gets a little flacky in my experience, and "packing" essentially a reindexing fixes the problem. Would you put data at risk by flacky operation merely to preserve a dynamic photo numbering scheme? However, "meaninglessness" in filenames is in relative terms not very important. Transitorily I would use the REF NUMBER preformatted fact to record the existing photo file name as a fact for each person, alternatively, use MISC and "photo file no." to record. Last choice for me would be to create a new fact "PHOTO No." fact and record the number there. I try to avoid new fact creation due to wanting to minimize GEDCOM compatibility problems. The FO searcher would readily take you to any "photo filename" to see which person that the photo is associated with. Find MISC <containing> <photo> for example. Since you WILL commence a new naming scheme, there will not be any duplications when the previous FO record numbers change as they are certain to do some time. Last but not least do not forget that in FO <reports> <lists> <multimedia list> should generate a report which you could copy/paste and squirrel away under a fake person named List Photo as note material. I like 3 or 4 digit name surname control, plus given name initials and a photo year or estimate plus a dash number, I'd use 4 rather than 3 unless you have many 3 digit surnames in order to best preserve proper alphabetical listings. Most 4 and a few 3 will alphabetize differently by the computer. Thus a Paul A. Studly 1986 photo becomes Stud-PA-1986-01.jpg use underscore for 3 digit surnames,the 01 allows up to 99 for a given year for any person Lee_-RE-1864-01.jpg for Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee Stud-PA-will___.jpg Stud-PA-probate.jpg Stud-PA-birth___.jpg Stud-PA-farm___.jpg Wise-J_-2002-01.jpg Wise-JJ-2001-01.jpg or Stu_-PA-1986-01.jpg only if you have many 3 digit surnames You ought to be able to fix say 30- 40 an hour without killing yourself, so 30 days will fix say 900-1200 filenames. Just remember, the tortise and the hare, gently plodding along will get the job done. Good Luck - you know you gotta change, stop fighting it <g> Think you could talk your wife into doing it, and trust the data - get lost sayeth she !!! Paul Studly Cleveland/Chesterland, OH [email protected]

I bought a computer from Gateway 2000 about 10 years ago, when the Pentium was new and fast at 90MHZ. The keyboard was what they called an "Anykey keyboard." Most of the keys could be programmed to type anything the user wanted. I don't remember the original manufacturer of this keyboard, and I haven't been able to get another one. When I got my last computer at a Gateway store about 2 years ago, the store personnel used these old "AnyKey" keyboards. I couldn't talk them out of one either. I heard one time that the reason that it was discontinued was that tech support was inundated with calls from people who accidentally programmed some keys and couldn't figure out what was wrong. I would like to find a new one, this one has a few keys that stick some of the time. (My excuse for spelling errors! <};-) I am sorry, I wish I could help you folks, but not enough that I would give you mine. Alfred D. Eller http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adelr/ ========================== ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:21 AM Subject: [FO] Gedcom instructions > In a message dated 07/27/2002 7:34:58 AM Central Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > > I have one key on my keyboard programmed to send this message with every > > > GEDCOM file I send: > > > Alfred, please tell me how you programmed that key. Thanks. >