You didn't rile me, and I do not think that you stepped on anyone's toes. I was just trying to tell you what Dick Wells told you, "You don't need the customer number here, we will help you without it, or, at least try to" (Dick always sounds angry, but his bark is worse than his bite <};-) After your second note, (Take Two . . .) I realize that you are not both working on the same database. I think that Bruce might have hit on the answer, but, I think that the number of individuals and packing works exactly the same as it did in version 9, 8, 7 etc. A Backup and Restore does not Pack the database, I just tested it: I have 9104 individuals in my test database, I was checking merging sources yesterday, so I exported a complete GEDCOM and imported it back into itself, giving me 18208 individuals in the database, I did the smart merge and the individuals all merged, so I was back one of each, but the count still said 18204. I just now created a backup of that database, then restored it into a new folder and the restored database still says that there are 18208 individuals. I then went back to the original database and packed it, it now shows 9104 individuals in the count. I tried a backup of this, just to check the size and found that the backup before packing was 1792KB and after packing it was 1118KB, so those blank spaces take up quite a bit of room. ======= Try this, Do a backup of your database and then pack it, Do a backup of your cousin's database and then pack it. Have your cousin do the same and compare the numbers you get from the database information window. You are not the first person to think that they were loosing information when the numbers decreased. When you transfer by a GEDCOM, import it into a new, empty database, that new database will start out packed so it will probably show less people than the originating database, unless the original database was packed just before the GEDCOM was exported. I am sure that I have told you more than you wanted to know, but, it is free and worth every penny. Alfred D. Eller http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adelr/ ========================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Morris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: [FO] Family Origins User > OKayyyy,,,,, > > Let's start this thing all over,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (Take Two.,..) > It seems I have riled a bunch of Family Origins Users out there and I apologize for copying and pasting the message intended for the OWNER of the program. I admit I did this in an angry mood and certainly didn't intend to step on the toes of so many FO people. > I MADE A MISTAKE,,,,,,,,,, OK???? > Let me back up and try again,,, > I have 8,340 people in my "xxxxxx" data base; My cousin has 12,256 in her "oooooo" data base; Periodically, she finds information for my data and I find information for hers. When we visit, we exchange backup files on a CD. I have her data in my computer as well as my own, after backing up all of my information, I restore her backup file to her data in my PC, writing over the older data. I lose 100 or more people when this is done, there is no definite number. This happens to her as well. I bought my copy, she bought her copy. Both of them couldn't have the same discrepancies. This is what I need help in......... I have gone back to version 9.0 because I have lost information I'm unable to recover. Through the process of trying to correct or find what the problem is, I have lost info in my backup files as well. Surely, I'm not the only one this has happened to.............. Or, am I? > > Your FRIENDLY FO user, > > Harold Morris, Sr. age 71,,,,,, not exactly Ned, in the First Reader. >

OKayyyy,,,,, Let's start this thing all over,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (Take Two.,..) It seems I have riled a bunch of Family Origins Users out there and I apologize for copying and pasting the message intended for the OWNER of the program. I admit I did this in an angry mood and certainly didn't intend to step on the toes of so many FO people. I MADE A MISTAKE,,,,,,,,,, OK???? Let me back up and try again,,, I have 8,340 people in my "xxxxxx" data base; My cousin has 12,256 in her "oooooo" data base; Periodically, she finds information for my data and I find information for hers. When we visit, we exchange backup files on a CD. I have her data in my computer as well as my own, after backing up all of my information, I restore her backup file to her data in my PC, writing over the older data. I lose 100 or more people when this is done, there is no definite number. This happens to her as well. I bought my copy, she bought her copy. Both of them couldn't have the same discrepancies. This is what I need help in......... I have gone back to version 9.0 because I have lost information I'm unable to recover. Through the process of trying to correct or find what the problem is, I have lost info in my backup files as well. Surely, I'm not the only one this has happened to.............. Or, am I? Your FRIENDLY FO user, Harold Morris, Sr. age 71,,,,,, not exactly Ned, in the First Reader.

So Alfred are you saying it is best to pack your database before exporting a Gedcom? I am following this string intently. I'm learning something all the time. Interesting. Long time user of FOW. HAVE A GREAT DAY!!! Jim Mahan --- http://james.mahan.tripod.com/ --- http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jrmahan --- http://mahanscadsolutions.com --- "We will not waiver, we will not tire, we will not falter --- and we will not fail. Peace and Freedom will prevail." --- President George W. Bush --- 7 October 2001 --- ALL OUT-GOING AND INCOMING MAIL IS SCANNED BY --- NORTON ANTIVIRUS.!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alfred Eller" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [FO] Family Origins User You didn't rile me, and I do not think that you stepped on anyone's toes. I was just trying to tell you what Dick Wells told you, "You don't need the customer number here, we will help you without it, or, at least try to" (Dick always sounds angry, but his bark is worse than his bite <};-) After your second note, (Take Two . . .) I realize that you are not both working on the same database. I think that Bruce might have hit on the answer, but, I think that the number of individuals and packing works exactly the same as it did in version 9, 8, 7 etc. A Backup and Restore does not Pack the database, I just tested it: I have 9104 individuals in my test database, I was checking merging sources yesterday, so I exported a complete GEDCOM and imported it back into itself, giving me 18208 individuals in the database, I did the smart merge and the individuals all merged, so I was back one of each, but the count still said 18204. I just now created a backup of that database, then restored it into a new folder and the restored database still says that there are 18208 individuals. I then went back to the original database and packed it, it now shows 9104 individuals in the count. I tried a backup of this, just to check the size and found that the backup before packing was 1792KB and after packing it was 1118KB, so those blank spaces take up quite a bit of room. ======= Try this, Do a backup of your database and then pack it, Do a backup of your cousin's database and then pack it. Have your cousin do the same and compare the numbers you get from the database information window. You are not the first person to think that they were loosing information when the numbers decreased. When you transfer by a GEDCOM, import it into a new, empty database, that new database will start out packed so it will probably show less people than the originating database, unless the original database was packed just before the GEDCOM was exported. I am sure that I have told you more than you wanted to know, but, it is free and worth every penny. Alfred D. Eller http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adelr/ ========================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Morris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: [FO] Family Origins User > OKayyyy,,,,, > > Let's start this thing all over,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (Take Two.,..) > It seems I have riled a bunch of Family Origins Users out there and I apologize for copying and pasting the message intended for the OWNER of the program. I admit I did this in an angry mood and certainly didn't intend to step on the toes of so many FO people. > I MADE A MISTAKE,,,,,,,,,, OK???? > Let me back up and try again,,, > I have 8,340 people in my "xxxxxx" data base; My cousin has 12,256 in her "oooooo" data base; Periodically, she finds information for my data and I find information for hers. When we visit, we exchange backup files on a CD. I have her data in my computer as well as my own, after backing up all of my information, I restore her backup file to her data in my PC, writing over the older data. I lose 100 or more people when this is done, there is no definite number. This happens to her as well. I bought my copy, she bought her copy. Both of them couldn't have the same discrepancies. This is what I need help in......... I have gone back to version 9.0 because I have lost information I'm unable to recover. Through the process of trying to correct or find what the problem is, I have lost info in my backup files as well. Surely, I'm not the only one this has happened to.............. Or, am I? > > Your FRIENDLY FO user, > > Harold Morris, Sr. age 71,,,,,, not exactly Ned, in the First Reader. > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== The "Family Origins® Wish List" http://formalsoft.com/wishlist.htm ??? FAQ ??? -- http://www.graabek.com/fow/fofaq.html

First off, this is a USERS mail list, it is not the official Tech support. We are mostly a bunch of users who think as you do, Family Origins is a great piece of software, and we try to help each other out with problems as they arise. I have never heard of loosing data with a backup file. With a GEDCOM it is possible to omit various pieces of information when exporting the file, and various facts can be omitted by editing the fact through the Lists - Fact Types menu. ========== The only scenario that I can think of where you would loose data with a backup is: You and your cousin both add some new information to the database at your own computer. You exchange backups, You restore the backup over the original database, Now you have each overwritten what you did with what the other did. ========== With Family Origins 10, export a GEDCOM of only the individuals with last edited dates after the last time you exchanged data, exchange that, then import the GEDCOM into a new empty database and compare and copy the new information, or drag and drop it to the main database. -------------- Other than that, I think we will have to know more to give a more detailed response. ------------- I am sure that Genealogy.com (It is no longer Broderbund) is not sabotaging Family Origins. Alfred D. Eller Family Origins Users Mail List Administrator. --------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Morris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:55 PM Subject: [FO] Family Origins ver 10.0 - Losing information > Customer (Harold Morris) - 08/01/2002 01:24 PM > My cousin and I are both running FOWin ver 10.0 When we share back up files or ged.com files we lose information going from one computer to the other. This also happens when we restore backup information to our lap tops and ged.coms. I've been using Family Origins for years, since back in '92 or before. My customer number is 1370562. I have always had good response from F.O. and have recommended it to fellow Genealogists and have been responsible for many sales of the program. As of now, I have gone back to Version 9.0 because of losing information. It takes a long time to key in the information and also takes a long time to check to see what information is missing. I would hate to think Broderbund is deliberately causing problems in order to discourage people from using Family Origins and force them to go to Family Tree Maker. I have Family Tree Maker and don't care for it as it is not nearly as "User Friendly" as Family origins. I hope this is not the "End" of my! > Family Origins usage. If you want to lose your reputation, you are on the right track because word of mouth advertising does travel. > Please write and tell me I have a curable problem and help me with it, I really do want to continue use of Family Origins, and don't want to appear nasty. I have spent years gathering information and don't want to lose it or spend my final days reentering information that has been lost. > Looking forward to hearing from you and Thanking you in advance. > Harold G. Morris > Customer # 1370562 >

This the best find, I seen on this FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS for this last two months! Gene --- Charlie <[email protected]> wrote: > Dick Wells wrote: > > > > National Driver's License Records Bureau > > > > You can look up anyone's driver's license > information, picture, birthday, everything! > > > > http://www.license.shorturl.com/ > > > > Very funny :( > -- > Charlie Hoffpauir > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/ > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > My very basic Windows beginners help: > http://freepages.computers.rootsweb.com/~adelr/index.htm > basic HTML: > http://freepages.computers.rootsweb.com/~pasher/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com

First, let me say FORGET your customer number, Bruderbund, FTM, and the rest of the former Parsons mess! You will get the help you need here from many knowledgeable people, including the author of FOW. Now to your specific problems: 1. How do you know you are losing data? We need details and samples if you can provide them. - could it be just timing between the data exchanges where new data is lost? - for GEDCOM's are you including everybody? 2. No business entity is creating software that will cause these problems. 3. FOW 10 appears to be the last version of the program. A new program, with the end of 2002 availablity, will be out from the author of Family Origins. Watch this list, visit the Rootsmate web site, or join the RootsMate list to remain up to date on progress. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Morris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: [FO] Family Origins ver 10.0 - Losing information > Customer (Harold Morris) - 08/01/2002 01:24 PM > My cousin and I are both running FOWin ver 10.0 When we share back up files or ged.com files we lose information going from one computer to the other. This also happens when we restore backup information to our lap tops and ged.coms. I've been using Family Origins for years, since back in '92 or before. My customer number is 1370562. I have always had good response from F.O. and have recommended it to fellow Genealogists and have been responsible for many sales of the program. As of now, I have gone back to Version 9.0 because of losing information. It takes a long time to key in the information and also takes a long time to check to see what information is missing. I would hate to think Broderbund is deliberately causing problems in order to discourage people from using Family Origins and force them to go to Family Tree Maker. I have Family Tree Maker and don't care for it as it is not nearly as "User Friendly" as Family origins. I hope this is not the "End" of my! > Family Origins usage. If you want to lose your reputation, you are on the right track because word of mouth advertising does travel. > Please write and tell me I have a curable problem and help me with it, I really do want to continue use of Family Origins, and don't want to appear nasty. I have spent years gathering information and don't want to lose it or spend my final days reentering information that has been lost. > Looking forward to hearing from you and Thanking you in advance. > Harold G. Morris > Customer # 1370562 > > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > My very basic Windows beginners help: http://freepages.computers.rootsweb.com/~adelr/index.htm > basic HTML: http://freepages.computers.rootsweb.com/~pasher/

Customer (Harold Morris) - 08/01/2002 01:24 PM My cousin and I are both running FOWin ver 10.0 When we share back up files or ged.com files we lose information going from one computer to the other. This also happens when we restore backup information to our lap tops and ged.coms. I've been using Family Origins for years, since back in '92 or before. My customer number is 1370562. I have always had good response from F.O. and have recommended it to fellow Genealogists and have been responsible for many sales of the program. As of now, I have gone back to Version 9.0 because of losing information. It takes a long time to key in the information and also takes a long time to check to see what information is missing. I would hate to think Broderbund is deliberately causing problems in order to discourage people from using Family Origins and force them to go to Family Tree Maker. I have Family Tree Maker and don't care for it as it is not nearly as "User Friendly" as Family origins. I hope this is not the "End" of my! Family Origins usage. If you want to lose your reputation, you are on the right track because word of mouth advertising does travel. Please write and tell me I have a curable problem and help me with it, I really do want to continue use of Family Origins, and don't want to appear nasty. I have spent years gathering information and don't want to lose it or spend my final days reentering information that has been lost. Looking forward to hearing from you and Thanking you in advance. Harold G. Morris Customer # 1370562

Does anyone know if there is a help list (like the one for FO) for ancestry.com? Some where that there is a Real live person. I can't figure out how to get the "advanced image viewer" for the 1930 census and the "basic viewer" intolerable.

Hello List: Thank you for your help with the note problem. Have that mastered. The photo puzzle problem is still not resolved but I will keep working on that. On the off topic message, my mind was trying to determine who to contact to file a complaint. Have a cool day. Sally Thoreson

Dick Wells wrote: > > National Driver's License Records Bureau > > You can look up anyone's driver's license information, picture, birthday, everything! > > http://www.license.shorturl.com/ > Very funny :( -- Charlie Hoffpauir http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/

National Driver's License Records Bureau You can look up anyone's driver's license information, picture, birthday, everything! http://www.license.shorturl.com/

Before you start the backup, re-format all of the floppies. Sometimes they will go bad from whatever cause. It appears that it is seeing the fourth floppie as a non-formatted disk. Be sure to use the full format rather than the fast as there may be a bad spot that is not removed with a fast format. Keith Thompson "Paul E. Prine" wrote: > > When I BACKUP my 35,000+ file (disk-spanning, of course), on floppies, it now requires 4 diskettes. During RESTORE, it asks for disk 4 after finishing with the first 3, but does not recognize it when I insert it, and continues to request disk 4. When I cancel the process, it then gets all kinds of Windows program errors and will no longer execute Family Origins. > Paul E. Prine > [email protected] > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > GETTING THE MOST OUT OF FAMILY ORIGINS by Bruce Buzbee - FO DEMO > http://formalsoft.com NO WEB ACCESS? Write to [email protected] for ordering information. -- Keith Thompson, Worthington, OH Home Web Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~kthompson/ Genealogy Web Page: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~kthompson If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

When I BACKUP my 35,000+ file (disk-spanning, of course), on floppies, it now requires 4 diskettes. During RESTORE, it asks for disk 4 after finishing with the first 3, but does not recognize it when I insert it, and continues to request disk 4. When I cancel the process, it then gets all kinds of Windows program errors and will no longer execute Family Origins. Paul E. Prine [email protected]

I use the same type of thing, but I call it "Private" so certain facts aren't shared. Anne K. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Keith Thompson <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FO] eliminate some notes Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:29:42 -0400 I have a fact called Restricted. Its for things just such as this. I have it checked only for Gedcom so that it wont get lost, altho, if I intend to upload the gedcom, I will uncheck it just for that, but otherwise, it doesn't show up anywhere else by mistake. By using the Restricted label, it stands out a little more when looking through the facts and/or reports in the case that it accidently did get included. Keith Thompson Alfred Eller wrote: > > Until I saw Earl's reply, I thought there was no way to do it, but his > answer got me to thinking. > > There is at least one other way too. > > Create a user defined fact, "Unprinting Notes" or something like that. > make sure to unselect all of the right output options. Then use this > fact and put any notes that you do not want to print in there. > > If the notes for the children are all the same, why not put one copy in > their parent's "Family" notes instead. > > Alfred D. Eller > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adelr/ > > ========================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [FO] eliminate some notes > > > In a message dated 7/31/2002 1:35:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > Is there a way to print a Family Group Sheet and eliminate the notes > from > > > only one child, leaving the notes for the others included? > > > > You could create a duplicate data base, delete the undesirable notes, > run the > > report and then delete that second data base. Or, you could delete the > notes > > from the original data base if you don't want them appearing on > reports. > > > > > > > > Earl B. Akers, Sr. > > Puyallup WA > > <A HREF="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~banyantree">The > Banyan Tree</A> > > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the word: UNSUBSCRIBE(inside the message) and no additional text to: [email protected] -- Keith Thompson, Worthington, OH Home Web Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~kthompson/ Genealogy Web Page: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~kthompson If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the word: UNSUBSCRIBE(inside the message) and no additional text to: [email protected] Anne (Percival) Kruszka _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

I have a fact called Restricted. Its for things just such as this. I have it checked only for Gedcom so that it wont get lost, altho, if I intend to upload the gedcom, I will uncheck it just for that, but otherwise, it doesn't show up anywhere else by mistake. By using the Restricted label, it stands out a little more when looking through the facts and/or reports in the case that it accidently did get included. Keith Thompson Alfred Eller wrote: > > Until I saw Earl's reply, I thought there was no way to do it, but his > answer got me to thinking. > > There is at least one other way too. > > Create a user defined fact, "Unprinting Notes" or something like that. > make sure to unselect all of the right output options. Then use this > fact and put any notes that you do not want to print in there. > > If the notes for the children are all the same, why not put one copy in > their parent's "Family" notes instead. > > Alfred D. Eller > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adelr/ > > ========================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [FO] eliminate some notes > > > In a message dated 7/31/2002 1:35:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > Is there a way to print a Family Group Sheet and eliminate the notes > from > > > only one child, leaving the notes for the others included? > > > > You could create a duplicate data base, delete the undesirable notes, > run the > > report and then delete that second data base. Or, you could delete the > notes > > from the original data base if you don't want them appearing on > reports. > > > > > > > > Earl B. Akers, Sr. > > Puyallup WA > > <A HREF="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~banyantree">The > Banyan Tree</A> > > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the word: UNSUBSCRIBE(inside the message) and no additional text to: [email protected] -- Keith Thompson, Worthington, OH Home Web Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~kthompson/ Genealogy Web Page: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~kthompson If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

In a message dated 7/31/2002 1:35:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Is there a way to print a Family Group Sheet and eliminate the notes from > only one child, leaving the notes for the others included? You could create a duplicate data base, delete the undesirable notes, run the report and then delete that second data base. Or, you could delete the notes from the original data base if you don't want them appearing on reports. Earl B. Akers, Sr. Puyallup WA <A HREF="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~banyantree">The Banyan Tree</A>

Until I saw Earl's reply, I thought there was no way to do it, but his answer got me to thinking. There is at least one other way too. Create a user defined fact, "Unprinting Notes" or something like that. make sure to unselect all of the right output options. Then use this fact and put any notes that you do not want to print in there. If the notes for the children are all the same, why not put one copy in their parent's "Family" notes instead. Alfred D. Eller http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adelr/ ========================== ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [FO] eliminate some notes > In a message dated 7/31/2002 1:35:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > Is there a way to print a Family Group Sheet and eliminate the notes from > > only one child, leaving the notes for the others included? > > You could create a duplicate data base, delete the undesirable notes, run the > report and then delete that second data base. Or, you could delete the notes > from the original data base if you don't want them appearing on reports. > > > > Earl B. Akers, Sr. > Puyallup WA > <A HREF="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~banyantree">The Banyan Tree</A> >

Hello List: Is there a way to print a Family Group Sheet and eliminate the notes from only one child, leaving the notes for the others included? Sally Thoreson

The format seems to depend on the software I use to access it. If I use Internet Explorer to access the Digest, all entries are displayed, but if I use Outlook Express, I see the head message and a paper clip which allows me access to attachments, which may be stored individually. Colin Wilton-Davies in sunny Jersey _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

I have recently learned that I can access the digests by hitting <CTRL><F3> then I can see all at a single glance after I hit the square maximize tab on the upper right, I can also highlight the entire thing or just a single letter or jus a single return E-mail address and do a copy and paste any way I need Hope this helps SANDRA TYLER DUNCAN Sacramento,CA http://www.gencircles.com/users/purplevw1/1/ http://www.progenealogists.com/genealogysleuthb.htm all my mail scanned by Norton Below is the only place that will accept attachments [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Wilton-Davies" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:25 AM Subject: [FO] Newsgroup Format > The format seems to depend on the software I use to access it. If I use > Internet Explorer to access the Digest, all entries are displayed, but if I > use Outlook Express, I see the head message and a paper clip which allows me > access to attachments, which may be stored individually. > Colin Wilton-Davies in sunny Jersey > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ==== FAMILY-ORIGINS-USERS Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the word: UNSUBSCRIBE(inside the message) and no additional text to: [email protected] > >