<<snippet>> Could some kind person please show me how to make an addition to the layout of the property box. I would like to add an extra line with 2 items, just below the last item -- "Note". I would like it to look something like this: Note: [xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Last Updated: [ 6/8/2011 ] Update Note: [.......... Text........ ] <<snippet>> Roger, I assume that you do not want to add "Facts" at all, but simply be able to record a Date and Note of your last update. My suggestion is to use the "Last Change Notes" data reference. So replace "INDI.ADOP.DATE" with "INDI.CHAN.NOTE2[1]" and "INDI.EDUC(1)" with "INDI.CHAN.NOTE2[2]". The first is found under data reference Individual + Miscellaneous + Last Change Notes + Note. The second is identical except you must change the index [1] to [2] by hand. This approach uses standard GEDCOM tags, but unfortunately does not support the Date Assistant, because the DATE tag is not supported in this context. You will simply have to enter the Date in your own format as plain text. Hope this helps. Mike Tate

Yasmin, I am currently running 2 programs, Gedview and Families on the Apple iPad. As you pointed out, I can take the iPad with me and update information and then when I am at home with the desktop easily update the new information in the main file. Anyone who has ever transferred Gedcom files between programs has probably experienced the inconsistencies that seem to crop up. Therefore, as a precaution I usually transfer into a separate FH file first just in case there are problems in the transfer. Glen Sent from my iPad On 07/08/2011, at 5:57 AM, "Yasmin Gibbins" <yasmin.gibbins@btinternet.com> wrote: > Good Evening > > I know that Family Historian is a windows based program but can anyone tell > me if it can be run on any of the tablet computers on the market, if not > does anyone know of a portable family history program that can be run on > one. > > I am very tempted to buy one of the tablets for other things but it would be > ideal to carry my family history on to records offices etc. > > Yasmin > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You would be much better to create a custom attribute for your information and you can then add the date and value fields. To create custom attributes use the Work With Fact Set Tool. You should never record information in the wrong fields as if you share your file at any point you will cause problems for the next person. On 6 August 2011 22:01, Roger Reavill <R-Squared@cinci.rr.com> wrote: > Could some kind person please show me how to make an addition to the layout > of the property box. I would like to add an extra line with 2 items, just > below the last item -- "Note". I would like it to look something like > this: > > > -- Jane. Jane Taubman | www.rjt.org.uk | www.taubman.org.uk |www.fhug.org.uk

Some of the tablets will run Windows 7, just do a google search for tablets Windows 7. On 6 August 2011 20:57, Yasmin Gibbins <yasmin.gibbins@btinternet.com>wrote: > I know that Family Historian is a windows based program but can anyone tell > me if it can be run on any of the tablet computers on the market, if not > does anyone know of a portable family history program that can be run on > one.-- > Jane. Jane Taubman | www.rjt.org.uk | www.taubman.org.uk |www.fhug.org.uk

Good Evening I know that Family Historian is a windows based program but can anyone tell me if it can be run on any of the tablet computers on the market, if not does anyone know of a portable family history program that can be run on one. I am very tempted to buy one of the tablets for other things but it would be ideal to carry my family history on to records offices etc. Yasmin

Could some kind person please show me how to make an addition to the layout of the property box. I would like to add an extra line with 2 items, just below the last item -- "Note". I would like it to look something like this: Note: [xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Last Updated: [ 6/8/2011 ] Update Note: [.......... Text........ ] I have read the "Edit Custom Item" and "Understanding Data References" articles, but had difficulty understanding what I was reading. I tried a "work-around", which kind of worked, but not satisfactorily. I took 2 of the less commonly used items -- "Adoption" and "Education' -- one with a date, and one with no date. Using the "Edit Custom Item" screen I changed the Custom Item Name of the first item to "Last Updated". I called the Part 1 Label "Last Updated:" and kept its Data Reference as "INDI.ADOP.DATE". I called the Part 2 Label "Update Note:" and kept its Data Reference as "INDI.EDUC(1)". At first this appeared to work fine in that the modified layout of the property box was just as I wished, and I could enter appropriate dates and text into the program. However, when I took a look at the "Facts" tabs, my newly entered data was there, with the words "Adoption" and "Education", instead of "Last Updated" and ""Update Note". This is not altogether surprising -- my problem is I don't understand how to modify the data references to meet my needs. So, if someone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful. Thank you. Roger Reavill

Nigel: it's not entirely clear what you want to achieve. Assuming you have your genealogy stored on an XP machine and wish now to transfer it to a Windows 7 machine. You must distinguish in your mind between THREE things that work together but are essentially separate. 1. Program files, such as FH itself (100% Calico Pie program, without any user data). 2. Settings that you may have set into FH in your current installation. Some FH users may use FH straight out of the box and will not have made any changes to FH settings. Settings carry user preferences, not personal information, they instruct the FH code on how you want it to respond. 3. Your user files of photos, documents etc and including the key Gedcom file containing your stored FH user data. There is no direct way to transfer the installation of FH itself from an XP machine to a Win7 machine. You'll have to get out your original FH installation discs and do a fresh install on your W7 machine. And check on the internet to see if there are updates from Calico Pie that apply to the version of FH in your installation DVD. The use of Microsoft "Easy Transfer" software may come to your assistance. I recommend you study the Microsoft URL: http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=4503 Microsoft don't guarantee it, but in many cases where application programs have had special settings inserted by users, the use of "easy transfer" will carry over from XP to Windows 7 the user settings. Make sure you first understand the sequence of events and then follow the instructions to the letter. You mentioned proof of ownership. As far as I know Calico Pie will not challenge your setting up FH on a new Windows 7 machine from your own original CDs, but the licence terms may well require you to uninstall the program on the old computer after you have successfully made the changeover. I'm pretty sure Calico Pie will require you to enter a Registration Key that should be found in the sleeve containing your FH product. Ian

Nigel, There is a full description of what you need to do on the FHUG website in the Knowledge Base How To's. See the Family Historian (Re-)Installation Guide at http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:index#installation_guide In principle you have to install your original purchased Full Licence Version of FH, then apply each purchased Upgrade Licence Version, followed by the latest free Update download for V4.1.3. There is also information on how to use Windows Easy Transfer that comes with Windows 7, or other methods, to transfer your data and settings from XP to Win 7. Regards, Mike Tate -----Original Message----- From: family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Burton Sent: 06 August 2011 10:55 To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: [FHU] Transfer 4.1.3 from XP based to Windows 7 Computer I am uncertain as to the best method of completing the above exercise. The easiest would be to re-download directly from Calico Pie although I don't think an activation code was necessary but would some sort of proof of ownership be necessary? Obtain a crossover cable and transfer the software across from one machine to the other. Last but not least, transfer everything to a USB and re-load on the new machine from there. (I am not convinced that this would achieve the desired outcome because of possible hidden file or files and an install requirement.)   Any advice/help gratefully received   Nigel Burton

On 6 August 2011 10:54, Nigel Burton <nrbjtb@btinternet.com> wrote: > The easiest would be to re-download directly from Calico Pie although I > don't think an activation code was necessary but would some sort of proof of > ownership be necessary? Assuming you purchased a download version from Calico Pie directly and kept a copy of your License information which was sent to you in an email. You can download the latest trial version from Family Historian from http://www.family-historian.co.uk/downloads/v4-30-day-trial and enter your license while loading. To see how to move your data and settings please see: http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:move_settings -- Jane. Jane Taubman | www.rjt.org.uk | www.taubman.org.uk |www.fhug.org.uk

I am uncertain as to the best method of completing the above exercise.  The easiest would be to re-download directly from Calico Pie although I don't think an activation code was necessary but would some sort of proof of ownership be necessary? Obtain a crossover cable and transfer the software across from one machine to the other. Last but not least, transfer everything to a USB and re-load on the new machine from there. (I am not convinced that this would achieve the desired outcome because of possible hidden file or files and an install requirement.)   Any advice/help gratefully received   Nigel Burton

Many thanks to Gerry, Adrian, David, Nick, Andrew and John - in short to everyone who replied either on or off-list to my questions. Your answers were all most useful to me and I will go ahead and get a Mac soon. Regards, Roy

Roy, If I could add to the other comments you received, I have been using FH on my iMac since Dec last year and it has worked perfectly - in fact possibly a little faster than my oldish PC. FH just behaves as if it was running on a PC and all the functions I have tried work on the iMac (although sometimes with different key combinations). Also Ancestral Sources works as well and it updated normally when Nick issued a new version earlier this year. In fact as far as I can tell any Windows software should work normally under Parallels. The first time you use FH or AS under Parallels you need to point it to the new file/project location - the file path will look something like: \\psf\Home\Documents\Family Historian Projects\My Family\My Family.fh_data\ I purchased "Parallels Desktop 6 Switch to Mac Edition". This comes with a cable to link the PC and Mac and Parallels copies over the entire Windows operating system and all your files. The Windows OS (I have XP like others that have replied) needs the Security Key before it is installed on the Mac - Parallels prompts for this as far as I can recall. Otherwise the transfer is quite painless and reasonably quick - 2-3 hours I think but I had a lot of files - particularly graphics. I don't think the flavour of internet browser makes a lot of difference to your vulnerability to viruses. If you are working in Windows under Parallels the Windows OS is still vulnerable and it is recommended that you use Windows Anti-Virus and Internet Security Software - I use Norton 360 (Having tried various different free and paid packages I went back to Norton - I find they all tend to slow down the computer but this version of Norton less so - but it may depend what sort of PC you are using.) Yes, Macs are still vulnerable but it is a mater of choice whether or not you choose to buy Mac Anti-Virus Software - it is just that the Mac OS has not hitherto been the target of much virus software. I have chosen not to use separate Mac Anti-Virus software and just to be very careful about opening suspicious emails etc. If the writers of viruses turn their attention to Macs in the future then everyone will need to purchase Mac Anti-Virus software. The FH software update should work normally - I have just tested it and I get a message that the software is up to date (as there haven't been any updates since I bought my Mac). If you download an update for any Windows program Parallels knows it is Windows software and not Mac software and so opens it under Windows. If you have an old printer you may find it a bit of a struggle to get it to work with the Mac - I have a 10 year old colour laser printer and it took quite a lot of research to get it working - but the Internet is a wonderful source of information! If you put "mac pinter" and the name of your printer into your favourite search engine you will almost certainly come up with a lot of hits and hopefully a resolution. There is a list of supported printers on the Apple web site. Scanners seem to be less of a problem as Mac supports Twain/Sane which most scanners use. Just take the plunge - plenty of others have and have not been disappointed! And I see you have an ac.uk address so don't forget to get your educational discount on your Mac! Best wishes and let us know how you get on. If there is a general move towards Macs in the FH community then it might become worthwhile for Calico Pie to produce a Mac version, although I realise this is not a trivial programming issue. Gerry On 3 Aug 2011, at 18:14, family-historian-users-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Questions about FH on Apple Mac with Parallels? (Davies, Roy) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 08:51:24 +0100 > From: "Davies, Roy" <Roy.Davies@exeter.ac.uk> > Subject: [FHU] Questions about FH on Apple Mac with Parallels? > To: "family-historian-users@rootsweb.com" > <family-historian-users@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <CCE6D2ECAE42B249A656C6D6A825AEFD82D5A6A919@EXCHMBS06.isad.isadroot.ex.ac.uk> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Earlier this year there was a thread on this list about using Family Historian on an Apple Mac which I found very informative. I will probably buy a Mac soon and get Parallels so I can continue to use Family Historian. However I still have a few questions. > > 1) If I buy parallels (or any other rival software for running Windows applications) will I still need to buy and install Windows or is that already included in Parallels? > > 2) If I connect to the Internet using Safari (or any other Apple program) and then start up Family Historian using Parallels would that make the Mac potentially vulnerable to viruses or would it still be safe because the Internet connection had been made by Apple software? > > 3) Would the "check for updates" function in Family Historian still work or would I have to go to the FH website from time to time to see if there had been any updates. > > 4) My last question is related to the second and third ones. If the check for updates function did still work then wouldn't using it mean that you were making an internet connection using Windows and hence risking virus infections? > > These questions probably seem rather naive to those of you who already use Macs, or have considered the possiblilty, so please excuse my ignorance! > > Roy

I've had no problems running VMWare Fusion and WIndows XP - I do have anti-virus software on the Mac and loaded the complimentary McAfee that comes with VMWare Cheers Peter On 03/08/2011, at 5:51 PM, Davies, Roy wrote: > Earlier this year there was a thread on this list about using Family Historian on an Apple Mac which I found very informative. I will probably buy a Mac soon and get Parallels so I can continue to use Family Historian. However I still have a few questions. > > 1) If I buy parallels (or any other rival software for running Windows applications) will I still need to buy and install Windows or is that already included in Parallels? > > 2) If I connect to the Internet using Safari (or any other Apple program) and then start up Family Historian using Parallels would that make the Mac potentially vulnerable to viruses or would it still be safe because the Internet connection had been made by Apple software? > > 3) Would the "check for updates" function in Family Historian still work or would I have to go to the FH website from time to time to see if there had been any updates. > > 4) My last question is related to the second and third ones. If the check for updates function did still work then wouldn't using it mean that you were making an internet connection using Windows and hence risking virus infections? > > These questions probably seem rather naive to those of you who already use Macs, or have considered the possiblilty, so please excuse my ignorance! > > Roy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<<snipped>> 2) If I connect to the Internet using Safari (or any other Apple program) and then start up Family Historian using Parallels would that make the Mac potentially vulnerable to viruses or would it still be safe because the Internet connection had been made by Apple software? <<snipped>> An internet connection is an internet connection is an internet connection. HOWEVER, the vulnerability of that connection depends on what sits at your end, talking to the internet. Apple's OSX talking to the internet is less vulnerable than Windows. It is NOT invulnerable. That is a fact. There are various types of malware (i.e. nasty stuff). The vast majority of it is targeted at Windows, simply because it's the most popular. Note that spam and phishing emails are operating system independent - if you send your password to your bank because "they've" asked you to, you're stuffed no matter what operating system you run, because it isn't your bank asking. Therefore, even without running Windows, even Apple grudgingly recommend in the small print that you may care to run security software. The threat against Apple's OSX and iOS WILL increase as it gets more popular, so my advice is to run security software under Apple's OS both to catch the increasing threat against Apple stuff and to deal with the CURRENT threat of spam and phishing mails. <<snipped>> 3) Would the "check for updates" function in Family Historian still work or would I have to go to the FH website from time to time to see if there had been any updates. 4) My last question is related to the second and third ones. If the check for updates function did still work then wouldn't using it mean that you were making an internet connection using Windows and hence risking virus infections? <<snipped>> Now, I have no knowledge of Parallels specifically, but I know that if you are running a VM (which seems to be what Parallels is?), then it can only see the internet if you set it so. If you set the Windows "inside" Parallels to see the Internet (and this MAY be the default, I just don't know, I get the impression it might be), then (a) your "check for updates" function in Family Historian will still work but (b) your Windows session IS vulnerable to any Windows viruses. I can't see how it can be otherwise. The connection may be between computers, but if Windows can see the Internet, then it's vulnerable. If you set the Windows "inside" Parallels so it does NOT see the Internet, then your "check for updates" function in Family Historian will NOT work. Now, how vulnerable is Windows "inside" Parallels? If you don't use the browser in Windows, probably not much. If you don't let Windows (and FH) see the rest of your machine, not much. But then you'll probably want to move data between the Apple and Windows bits (e.g. by drag and drop, as is suggested in other mails), so it is possible Windows malware can end up on the Apple side. From where it can reinfect others Windows machine. Maybe... So, if your Windows session talks to the Internet (and I get the impression from other mails that it will), then get a free antivirus / spam / phishing security app. Personal opinions warning: As for "Apple OS is far superior to anything Windows produces and you also get the benefit of a much nicer looking computer", well, that's a personal opinion. You might find it so, many do. Personally, I get infuriated by much of Apple's simplistic design - for instance - why is there no "stop" button on my iPod? No, "pause" is NOT the same. There's no "stop" button because it looks nicer with just the 4. Adrian B

It may be helpful when using old parish records etc from Scotland that if you see "guarantor" instead of "witness" this will almost certainly be the brides's father. This stem from the day when the father guaranteed the suitablity and character of his daughter (and maybe also included as dowry as a guarantee"). I have used this "gaurantor" as a special facts/field in FH, as distinct from witness as these are usually peers/siblings of the bride or groom and not parents. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6347 (20110803) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

I switched from PC to iMac a few months ago and installed Parallels. I am using a relatively old Windows XP disc that I bought some years ago. After loading Parallels and loading XP I managed to download all available XP updates including SP2 and SP3. You don't need the latest and more expensive Windows 7 to run FH so I'd advise looking for an XP disc on eBay. As long as you don't connect to the internet using the Internet Explorer in Windows, and as long as you are not using a Windows based e mail program such as Outlook you should be safe. However, just to be sure I've downloaded a free version of Avira which runs on the Windows virtual machine. You can, as someone has suggested, take advantage of Kapersky, a trial version of which is bundled in Parallels. However, it will not be cheap when you have to renew it after the trial period and Kapersky has a reputation for being memory hungry. Yes, FH updates should work normally as will Windows updates. I made the switch with some trepidation but have been delighted by the results. I've just upgraded to from Snow Leopard to OS Lion and everything still runs perfectly. The joy of Parallels is that, if you select the appropriate setting, Windows software looks just like Apple software on the screen and you can drag and drop files from Windows applications into Apple ones. Apple OS is far superior to anything Windows produces and you also get the benefit of a much nicer looking computer. I don't think you will be disappointed. Nick On 3 Aug 2011, at 08:51, Davies, Roy wrote: > Earlier this year there was a thread on this list about using Family Historian on an Apple Mac which I found very informative. I will probably buy a Mac soon and get Parallels so I can continue to use Family Historian. However I still have a few questions. > > 1) If I buy parallels (or any other rival software for running Windows applications) will I still need to buy and install Windows or is that already included in Parallels? > > 2) If I connect to the Internet using Safari (or any other Apple program) and then start up Family Historian using Parallels would that make the Mac potentially vulnerable to viruses or would it still be safe because the Internet connection had been made by Apple software? > > 3) Would the "check for updates" function in Family Historian still work or would I have to go to the FH website from time to time to see if there had been any updates. > > 4) My last question is related to the second and third ones. If the check for updates function did still work then wouldn't using it mean that you were making an internet connection using Windows and hence risking virus infections? > > These questions probably seem rather naive to those of you who already use Macs, or have considered the possiblilty, so please excuse my ignorance! > > Roy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is the technique I tend to use, together with a 'tentative' flag to condition the presentation on the diagram to highlight the status (different box outline colour etc). I tend to work off the diagram, so this works for me. John > I can see a possible benefit in being able to record the number of children > / spouse an individual has but if I suspect a couple had children (ie > deceased children from the 1911 census), I think I would add a child just > named (for example) "Child 1", "Child 2" etc. and put a note explaining the > assumption rather than just entering a number. Brian

I started this earlier thread, and have since bitten the bullet. So, .... 1) yes you still need Windows as well. I personally still prefer XP to 7, and you can still get it. 2) I don't think so, because you are using the Apple connection. Nevertheless, some still recommend using some security software, and parallels comes with a special offer for both versions attached to it. The main attack in my mind is through emails, so that is where the security is needed. Any other is over the top if you use a router for access to the internet. But others will no doubt have different views 3) Yes it will still work 4) No the internet connection is from the computer, not from the software, so my answer to 2 still applies. Andrew On 3 Aug 2011, at 08:51, Davies, Roy wrote: > Earlier this year there was a thread on this list about using Family Historian on an Apple Mac which I found very informative. I will probably buy a Mac soon and get Parallels so I can continue to use Family Historian. However I still have a few questions. > > 1) If I buy parallels (or any other rival software for running Windows applications) will I still need to buy and install Windows or is that already included in Parallels? > > 2) If I connect to the Internet using Safari (or any other Apple program) and then start up Family Historian using Parallels would that make the Mac potentially vulnerable to viruses or would it still be safe because the Internet connection had been made by Apple software? > > 3) Would the "check for updates" function in Family Historian still work or would I have to go to the FH website from time to time to see if there had been any updates. > > 4) My last question is related to the second and third ones. If the check for updates function did still work then wouldn't using it mean that you were making an internet connection using Windows and hence risking virus infections? > > These questions probably seem rather naive to those of you who already use Macs, or have considered the possiblilty, so please excuse my ignorance! > > Roy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 03/08/2011 08:51, Davies, Roy wrote: > Earlier this year there was a thread on this list about using Family Historian on an Apple Mac which I found very informative. I will probably buy a Mac soon and get Parallels so I can continue to use Family Historian. However I still have a few questions. > > 1) If I buy parallels (or any other rival software for running Windows applications) will I still need to buy and install Windows or is that already included in Parallels? > > 2) If I connect to the Internet using Safari (or any other Apple program) and then start up Family Historian using Parallels would that make the Mac potentially vulnerable to viruses or would it still be safe because the Internet connection had been made by Apple software? > > 3) Would the "check for updates" function in Family Historian still work or would I have to go to the FH website from time to time to see if there had been any updates. > > 4) My last question is related to the second and third ones. If the check for updates function did still work then wouldn't using it mean that you were making an internet connection using Windows and hence risking virus infections? > > These questions probably seem rather naive to those of you who already use Macs, or have considered the possiblilty, so please excuse my ignorance! > > Roy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message I've just bought a iMac and I'm coming to terms with Paralells, so I can answer your questions with a degree of personal experience: Paralells is a Mac application that hosts various flavours of virtual machine, one of which just happens to be Windows, others include Linux and BSD. Think os Parallels as a box, inside the box is a guest OS, but I/O with the rest of the world is performed by the Mac. Your questions: 1 - You need Microsoft media to install a Windows virtual machine and not an OEM version either, so that precludes a version that came ready installed on a Windows PC which will have drivers tailored to the PC plus Microsoft will not activate an OEM copy. 2 - Parallels ships with a 90 day evaluation version of Kaspersky AV, after that expires you need AV both for the Mac and each virual machine (if you have more than 1). 3 - I can't be definative but the check for update should work OK, on the basis that all Windows functionality seem to work - even Windows Update itself. 4 - see answer to 2. John Dobson

Earlier this year there was a thread on this list about using Family Historian on an Apple Mac which I found very informative. I will probably buy a Mac soon and get Parallels so I can continue to use Family Historian. However I still have a few questions. 1) If I buy parallels (or any other rival software for running Windows applications) will I still need to buy and install Windows or is that already included in Parallels? 2) If I connect to the Internet using Safari (or any other Apple program) and then start up Family Historian using Parallels would that make the Mac potentially vulnerable to viruses or would it still be safe because the Internet connection had been made by Apple software? 3) Would the "check for updates" function in Family Historian still work or would I have to go to the FH website from time to time to see if there had been any updates. 4) My last question is related to the second and third ones. If the check for updates function did still work then wouldn't using it mean that you were making an internet connection using Windows and hence risking virus infections? These questions probably seem rather naive to those of you who already use Macs, or have considered the possiblilty, so please excuse my ignorance! Roy