"What do you do for GRO registration districts that are not named after towns (e.g. Blything) or districts that do not include the town they are "named after" (e.g. Wangford)." I always put the fact that it's a district - eg person was born in Q4 1900 in Wangford registration district. Regards Shelagh

What do you do for GRO registration districts that are not named after towns (e.g. Blything) or districts that do not include the town they are "named after" (e.g. Wangford). Julian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan E. White" <family.historian@aewhite.me.uk> To: <family-historian-users@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? > I do use if that's all the > information I have (where they span counties, such as Sudbury, I > arbitrarily > use the county of the town which the district is named after). > > Alan

There is no easy way of creating this reverse Place sort in FH at present. However, it would be quite easy to add to FH V5 due out soon using its Plugin facility. Regards, Mike Tate -----Original Message----- From: family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robert Warnock Sent: 22 February 2012 14:24 To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? Alan, what is TCMG? To get an index of places in reverse order, which is often the easiest way to study what happened at a particular place as the normal order can make it difficult to find places where there are spelling variants which may keep them far apart, I have been exporting my data into Personal Ancestry File where there is an excellent report which outputs all place in reverse order and gives all the events which occurred at each place. Is there a way to do this in FH? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan E. White" <family.historian@aewhite.me.uk> To: <family-historian-users@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? The thing that > finally forced me to change was using the excellent TCGR which produces a > wonderful index of places in reverse order (the same thing persuaded me to > put a comma between the house number and street, but that's a separate > discussion). ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan E. White" <family.historian@aewhite.me.uk> To: <family-historian-users@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? > TCGR does exactly as you describe PAF as doing so if you have that as a > solution then TCGR is overkill just to give such a report. > > Alan Thanks for that. And PAF is free! Bob Warnock

> Alan, what is TCMG? TCGR = The Complete Genealogy Reporter http://www.tcgr.bufton.org/ > I have been exporting my data into Personal > Ancestry File > where there is an excellent report which outputs all place in > reverse order > and gives all the events which occurred at each place. > Is there a way to do this in FH? Not that I'm aware of, at least not in v3.1.1 which is what I use. It is possible, for occasional use, to use Tools|Work with Data|Places, Reverse Display Order, then sort by the first column. Then you can click on any place and see what references there are to it. Unfortunately none of these settings are remembered. TCGR does exactly as you describe PAF as doing so if you have that as a solution then TCGR is overkill just to give such a report. Alan

From: marlenejames119@hotmail.co.uk To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Which County? Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:28:19 +0000 Hi List, When filling in census returns with 'Ancestral Sources,' sometimes the parishes have moved boundaries and are now in adjacent counties. Occasionally the county is completely wrong! Please can anyone tell me how I should be recording these? "As is" or with the present day county? Regards Marlene ================================= Many thanks to all who replied to my query. I have in the past transcribed as is, but I've recently started to do some research for my sister-in-law. All her ancestors seem to have lived on the borders of two counties so each census had a different county. I was wondering what others did and if there was a right or wrong way. My doubts have now been answered thanks to this wonderful list. I always read every query and have picked up a lot of tips and how to's, so thankyou to all you knowledgable people. Best Regards Marlene

Alan, what is TCMG? To get an index of places in reverse order, which is often the easiest way to study what happened at a particular place as the normal order can make it difficult to find places where there are spelling variants which may keep them far apart, I have been exporting my data into Personal Ancestry File where there is an excellent report which outputs all place in reverse order and gives all the events which occurred at each place. Is there a way to do this in FH? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan E. White" <family.historian@aewhite.me.uk> To: <family-historian-users@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? The thing that > finally forced me to change was using the excellent TCGR which produces a > wonderful index of places in reverse order (the same thing persuaded me to > put a comma between the house number and street, but that's a separate > discussion).

> What do others do? When I first started family history, and for a long time after, I was careful to record places as they were at the time of the event, so Liverpool in 1980 was in Merseyside, Warrington in Cheshire post-1974 but Lancashire before then. Eventually I realised that this was causing duplication and making it impossible to be consistent about place names. The thing that finally forced me to change was using the excellent TCGR which produces a wonderful index of places in reverse order (the same thing persuaded me to put a comma between the house number and street, but that's a separate discussion). I considered that what's important is consistency. Places don't move, only how government administers them. I also condidered that for the greatest period of time I'm likely to encounter in family history the historic counties were the significant level below country. Yes, there were some anomalies but by and large those counties have been the way they are for hundreds of years until the late 19thC. The significant change then was the formation of the administrative counties such as London and Liverpool. Then of course, there were the 1974 changes, about which the less said the better. The other important thing is to be able to identify the place, then, now and in the future as far as I can reasonably foresee. I want to be able to look at my place data and be able to "go" there both online and in person. After some thought I decided that the only method to use was the historic counties. This approach also fits in better with research tools such as GENUKI and LDS which also use the historic counties. Thus Warrington is always in Lancashire, as is Liverpool; Chelsea is in Middlesex, as are Westminster and Islington; Woolwich is in Kent; Plaistow is in Essex; Abingdon is in Berkshire; and Bournemouth is in Hampshire. I don't use postcodes as these are a modern invention and prevent the reverse sorting from working. I do use GRO registration districts if that's all the information I have (where they span counties, such as Sudbury, I arbitrarily use the county of the town which the district is named after). I find the gazetteers at GENUKI (http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/gaz) and ABC (http://www.gazetteer.co.uk/) invaluable. This works for me, but everyone will do things in the way which suits them best. Alan

I can't ! But I will then. Tease! Andrew On 22 Feb 2012, at 10:45, Beryl & Mike Tate wrote: > Andrew, > > Wait until FH V5 is available - I dare not say more. > > Regards, Mike Tate > > -----Original Message----- > From: family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Jolly > Sent: 22 February 2012 09:35 > To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? > > This is very interesting. > > I have read the link provided, but all I would like to do is produce a report with all the addresses (not places) that i have so far > used. is that a simple possibility / already produced custom report? > > Andrew > > > On 21 Feb 2012, at 21:28, Beryl & Mike Tate wrote: > >> >> In the Place field I record the GRO District, County & Country that was formally associated with the Census at that time. >> In the Address field I record the House Address, but supplement it with a modern postal address, often including the postcode. >> >> This allows the location to be pinpointed using online tools such as Google Maps. >> FH V5 offers some new features that allow automatic Geocoding to plot Addresses on maps using Place & Address details, but needs > modern Addresses. >> >> I am also in the process of creating a Source/Repository record for each location, which is cited by every Fact with the > associated location Place/Address. >> This Source/Repository record provides one set of data for everything I discover about that location. >> This includes its Postcode, Latitude & Longitude, alternative District/County over time, Internet hyperlinks to relevant websites, > photos of places like churches, phone & E-mail contact details, etc. >> >> Further details are at http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:create_locations_database_details on the FHUG website. >> >> Regards, Mike Tate > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Andrew, Wait until FH V5 is available - I dare not say more. Regards, Mike Tate -----Original Message----- From: family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Jolly Sent: 22 February 2012 09:35 To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? This is very interesting. I have read the link provided, but all I would like to do is produce a report with all the addresses (not places) that i have so far used. is that a simple possibility / already produced custom report? Andrew On 21 Feb 2012, at 21:28, Beryl & Mike Tate wrote: > > In the Place field I record the GRO District, County & Country that was formally associated with the Census at that time. > In the Address field I record the House Address, but supplement it with a modern postal address, often including the postcode. > > This allows the location to be pinpointed using online tools such as Google Maps. > FH V5 offers some new features that allow automatic Geocoding to plot Addresses on maps using Place & Address details, but needs modern Addresses. > > I am also in the process of creating a Source/Repository record for each location, which is cited by every Fact with the associated location Place/Address. > This Source/Repository record provides one set of data for everything I discover about that location. > This includes its Postcode, Latitude & Longitude, alternative District/County over time, Internet hyperlinks to relevant websites, photos of places like churches, phone & E-mail contact details, etc. > > Further details are at http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:create_locations_database_details on the FHUG website. > > Regards, Mike Tate

<<snipped>> For instance - what tells anyone that "Bournemouth, Hampshire" and "Bournemouth, Dorset" are the same place? What tells anyone that "Chorley, Cheshire" is the same as "Chorley, Lancashire"? Ooops - it isn't! <<snipped>> That is where my locations Source/Repository database is particularly useful. Every Fact for "Bournemouth, Hampshire" and "Bournemouth, Dorset" would cite the same Source/Repository record that among other things gives dates when Bournemouth changed County. The Facts for "Chorley, Cheshire" and "Chorley, Lancashire" would cite two different Source/Repository records, identifying they are different locations with different Lat/Longitude, Postcode, etc. Conversely, from any locations Source/Repository record I can find all the linked Facts for the same location. Regards, Mike Tate -----Original Message----- From: family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce Sent: 21 February 2012 23:56 To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County <<snipped>> The genealogists rules of transcription are clear and cast in stone - you copy exactly what the document says. ... So if the document gives an address as Birkenhead, Merseyside because that was the situation at the time, then isn't that what we should transcribe. <<snipped>> An excellent rule, Barry. But the way I work is that my facts are my conclusions, in which I don't have transcripts but interpretations. The transcripts (which are exact) go into the source or the text-from-source. Otherwise, if I used the exact values for (say) age, I might need half a dozen birth events for each person taken from as many censuses and certificates, instead of one with a range that covered all the plausible values. So, for me, yes, the transcript should be exact but the conclusions only have to make sense. I think it is important to distinguish those two concepts. I have a great deal of sympathy with those who argue that contemporary names should apply - however, I keep running into as many anomalies (in my perception) with that idea as the other. For instance - what tells anyone that "Bournemouth, Hampshire" and "Bournemouth, Dorset" are the same place? What tells anyone that "Chorley, Cheshire" is the same as "Chorley, Lancashire"? Ooops - it isn't! Another anomalous pain would be not writing Australia before 1901. OK, there's a geographic expression before then - but that's all the historical counties are. Or that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.... Adrian B ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is very interesting. I have read the link provided, but all I would like to do is produce a report with all the addresses (not places) that i have so far used. is that a simple possibility / already produced custom report? Andrew On 21 Feb 2012, at 21:28, Beryl & Mike Tate wrote: > > > In the Place field I record the GRO District, County & Country that was formally associated with the Census at that time. > In the Address field I record the House Address, but supplement it with a modern postal address, often including the postcode. > > This allows the location to be pinpointed using online tools such as Google Maps. > FH V5 offers some new features that allow automatic Geocoding to plot Addresses on maps using Place & Address details, but needs > modern Addresses. > > I am also in the process of creating a Source/Repository record for each location, which is cited by every Fact with the associated > location Place/Address. > This Source/Repository record provides one set of data for everything I discover about that location. > This includes its Postcode, Latitude & Longitude, alternative District/County over time, Internet hyperlinks to relevant websites, > photos of places like churches, phone & E-mail contact details, etc. > > Further details are at http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:create_locations_database_details on the FHUG website. > > Regards, Mike Tate

<<snipped>> The genealogists rules of transcription are clear and cast in stone - you copy exactly what the document says. ... So if the document gives an address as Birkenhead, Merseyside because that was the situation at the time, then isn't that what we should transcribe. <<snipped>> An excellent rule, Barry. But the way I work is that my facts are my conclusions, in which I don't have transcripts but interpretations. The transcripts (which are exact) go into the source or the text-from-source. Otherwise, if I used the exact values for (say) age, I might need half a dozen birth events for each person taken from as many censuses and certificates, instead of one with a range that covered all the plausible values. So, for me, yes, the transcript should be exact but the conclusions only have to make sense. I think it is important to distinguish those two concepts. I have a great deal of sympathy with those who argue that contemporary names should apply - however, I keep running into as many anomalies (in my perception) with that idea as the other. For instance - what tells anyone that "Bournemouth, Hampshire" and "Bournemouth, Dorset" are the same place? What tells anyone that "Chorley, Cheshire" is the same as "Chorley, Lancashire"? Ooops - it isn't! Another anomalous pain would be not writing Australia before 1901. OK, there's a geographic expression before then - but that's all the historical counties are. Or that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.... Adrian B

Completely agree with Nick. I record counties/administrative divisions as they were recorded at the time. Hence I'd have Bournemouth in either Hampshire or Dorset, depending on the date of the record. The alternative makes no sense to me, nor would it to the ancestors who would otherwise have been effectively 'transported' to a county 'of which they knew nothing'. John _____ From: family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nick Serpell Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 6:52 PM To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? I always use what was the official name at the time of the event. Therefore a birth in Lambeth in the mid 1800s is in Surrey not in London. The same would apply to an event in Bournemouth which used to be in Hampshire but is now in Dorset. I don't see what the alternative is. Putting past events into the context of modern boundaries is technically incorrect as the areas did not exist in that form at the time. Nick Nick Serpell nick.serpell@serpell.org On 21 Feb 2012, at 18:20, Shelagh wrote: > Original query from Marlene was " When filling in census returns with > 'Ancestral Sources,' sometimes the parishes have moved boundaries > and are now in adjacent counties. Occasionally the county is completely > wrong! > Please can anyone tell me how I should be recording these? > "As is" or with the present day county?" > > Some of the new "counties" such as Merseyside and Greater Manchester are in > fact administrative counties and not shire counties. My personal preference > is for the shire county, and where places have moved from one to another I > have used the county of the period. EG Widnes and Warrington are now in > Cheshire, however they used to be in Lancashire. If the event I am recording > occurred in Warrington Lancashire that is what I put, if the event happened > last year I would record Warrington Cheshire. I will not record Liverpool as > being in Merseyside as that is an administrative county, whereas it is still > in the County Palatine of Lancaster. > > What do others do? > > > Shelagh > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 120221-0, 21/02/2012 Tested on: 21/02/2012 23:04:50 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software. http://www.avast.com _____ avast! <http://www.avast.com> Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 21/02/2012 Tested on: 21/02/2012 23:04:50 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 21/02/2012 Tested on: 21/02/2012 23:20:05 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 120221-0, 21/02/2012 Tested on: 21/02/2012 23:20:10 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software. http://www.avast.com

Like everything else in FH, you can record data in more ways than one and the best way is your way because that is how you understand your entries. The advice about bearing in mind how you might want to extract information in the future and being consistent, is also valid but I believe you should remember that we are genealogists and what you are actually doing is transcribing another document. The genealogists rules of transcription are clear and cast in stone - you copy exactly what the document says. So shouldn't we copy exactly what our document says? So if the document gives an address as Birkenhead, Merseyside because that was the situation at the time, then isn't that what we should transcribe. Then add an explanatory comment in 'Notes' saying that prior to April 1974 Birkenhead was in the County of Cheshire and returned to Cheshire in X. Or follow Mike Tate's solution if you want the explanation to be really comprehensive. The commercial sources follow the same rules. eg Ancestry does not change its transcriptions when better information is brought to their attention - they add a note. Barry On 21 Feb 2012, at 21:54, family-historian-users-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:28:13 -0000 > From: "Beryl & Mike Tate" <post@tatewise.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [FHU] Which County? > To: <family-historian-users@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000901ccf0df$b7e56860$27b03920$@co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Marlene, > > This may sound like a lot of effort, and I have not yet achieved everything I want yet, but this is my technique. > I will focus on Census returns, but the method should work for any events. > > In the Place field I record the GRO District, County & Country that was formally associated with the Census at that time. > In the Address field I record the House Address, but supplement it with a modern postal address, often including the postcode. > > This allows the location to be pinpointed using online tools such as Google Maps. > FH V5 offers some new features that allow automatic Geocoding to plot Addresses on maps using Place & Address details, but needs > modern Addresses. > > I am also in the process of creating a Source/Repository record for each location, which is cited by every Fact with the associated > location Place/Address. > This Source/Repository record provides one set of data for everything I discover about that location. > This includes its Postcode, Latitude & Longitude, alternative District/County over time, Internet hyperlinks to relevant websites, > photos of places like churches, phone & E-mail contact details, etc. > > Further details are at http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:create_locations_database_details on the FHUG website. > > Regards, Mike Tate

On 21 February 2012 14:47, Graham Thorpe <gt002a9542@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Show a second relationship of an individual to the root. Try =Relationship(fileroot(),%INDI%,TEXT,2) -- Jane. Jane Taubman | www.rjt.org.uk | www.taubman.org.uk |www.fhug.org.uk

Stewart, I will try to take this slowly. Just because a file is listed under File > Project Window > More Tasks > Gedcom File Tasks it does not guarantee it is a Project, FH may think it is a standalone Gedcom file. When you refer to File > Project Window > “current project” do you mean the entry above the Family Historian Projects pane, labelled "Current Project:"? Again, if it appears there, but not in the Family Historian Projects pane, then FH thinks it is a standalone Gedcom file, not a Project. To be a valid Project the following folder & file structure must exist (assuming Project is named "Project Name"): \Family History\Project Name\Project Name.fh_data\ \Family History\Project Name\Project Name.fh_proj (FH project data file) \Family History\Project Name\Project Name.fh_data\Project Name.ged (Gedcom file) \Family History\Project Name\Project Name.fh_data\Media\ Use Windows Explorer to check if the above structure exists, and report back. Depending on what (if anything) is missing, the resolution may be different. Regards, Mike Tate -----Original Message----- From: family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stewart Harverson Sent: 21 February 2012 19:29 To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: [FHU] Missing project I thought Id save a copy of my project folder to an external hard drive. I keep everything on Dropbox. There, my master folder is named ‘Family History’ and this contains all my FH projects and media and other relevant files. I saved the master folder. After the saving process - which seemed to go well- I checked that all had been saved correctly only to find one complete project missing. Only one project hadn’t been copied- no evidence whatsoever of it in the project list! Several others had been copied. I then checked to see that all was well with my FH projects on my computer. It wasnt! On opening the project window that same one project name was missing. After a few moments of panic I reassured myself as I found that the backup copy was functional and the media stored. I then went Project window > More tasks > Gedcom file tasks to find that the ‘missing’ project was listed 3 times! I tried to open them only to find that two of them would not open - ‘file path not valid’. However one could be opened and all, including media, seemed fine again. I pressed ‘Save’ in the hope that I would ensure that it was a saved project and when it was open I went File > Project Window and saw that the “current project” was listed correctly ( i.e. the missing file’s name). However, on reopening the FH program, the file was still unlisted- missing!! Please- how can I reinstate this project? Easy steps please!! Thanks Stewart ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I now realise my mistake- I had somehow accidentally dragged one project (missing one) into another. Stupid! Now corrected. Thanks anyway! -----Original Message----- From: Stewart Harverson Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 7:28 PM To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: [FHU] Missing project I thought Id save a copy of my project folder to an external hard drive. I keep everything on Dropbox. There, my master folder is named ‘Family History’ and this contains all my FH projects and media and other relevant files. I saved the master folder. After the saving process - which seemed to go well- I checked that all had been saved correctly only to find one complete project missing. Only one project hadn’t been copied- no evidence whatsoever of it in the project list! Several others had been copied. I then checked to see that all was well with my FH projects on my computer. It wasnt! On opening the project window that same one project name was missing. After a few moments of panic I reassured myself as I found that the backup copy was functional and the media stored. I then went Project window > More tasks > Gedcom file tasks to find that the ‘missing’ project was listed 3 times! I tried to open them only to find that two of them would not open - ‘file path not valid’. However one could be opened and all, including media, seemed fine again. I pressed ‘Save’ in the hope that I would ensure that it was a saved project and when it was open I went File > Project Window and saw that the “current project” was listed correctly ( i.e. the missing file’s name). However, on reopening the FH program, the file was still unlisted- missing!! Please- how can I reinstate this project? Easy steps please!! Thanks Stewart ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FAMILY-HISTORIAN-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marlene, This may sound like a lot of effort, and I have not yet achieved everything I want yet, but this is my technique. I will focus on Census returns, but the method should work for any events. In the Place field I record the GRO District, County & Country that was formally associated with the Census at that time. In the Address field I record the House Address, but supplement it with a modern postal address, often including the postcode. This allows the location to be pinpointed using online tools such as Google Maps. FH V5 offers some new features that allow automatic Geocoding to plot Addresses on maps using Place & Address details, but needs modern Addresses. I am also in the process of creating a Source/Repository record for each location, which is cited by every Fact with the associated location Place/Address. This Source/Repository record provides one set of data for everything I discover about that location. This includes its Postcode, Latitude & Longitude, alternative District/County over time, Internet hyperlinks to relevant websites, photos of places like churches, phone & E-mail contact details, etc. Further details are at http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:create_locations_database_details on the FHUG website. Regards, Mike Tate -----Original Message----- From: family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:family-historian-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene James Sent: 21 February 2012 17:28 To: family-historian-users@rootsweb.com Subject: [FHU] Which County? Hi List, When filling in census returns with 'Ancestral Sources,' sometimes the parishes have moved boundaries and are now in adjacent counties. Occasionally the county is completely wrong! Please can anyone tell me how I should be recording these? "As is" or with the present day county? Regards Marlene

<<snipped>> "As is" or with the present day county? <<snipped>> Lots of answers for you Marlene! Usually people say there are 3 types of county: - the historical counties, usually alleged to exist up to 1974; - administrative counties (where the local government is done) - ceremonial counties (the area covered by a Lord Lieutenant); In overall terms, it's usually said that there was only one sort up to 1974 - however, the Victorians created county boroughs that were independent of the surrounding county council, thus effectively creating administrative counties back then. Does it all matter? If you happen to be a die-hard, pre-1974 enthusiast, yes. But for you, think what you are likely to be using the places for. If you record events in both "Warrington, Lancashire" and "Warrington, Cheshire", will you ever want to pull off a list of things happening in both varieties of Warrington? Because if you do, then either you need to be slightly clever with queries or you need to make two passes to pull off "Warrington, Lancashire" and "Warrington, Cheshire", as FH really thinks these 2 are different places. If that sounds like a bit of a pain, then I suggest you settle on one county structure throughout history - many family historians, for this reason, settle on using the pre-1974 historical counties with the pre-1974 boundaries, even for post-1974 events. It's what I do. You may well come up with exceptions. I really can't summon up the enthusiasm to check which historical counties bits of London lie in, so it just gets called "Islington, London,,England" by me (e.g.) Note the ",," forces the country and city into consistent columns in some parts of FH. Scotland has both the 1974 name change and a 19th century renaming from old names like "Angus" to shire-names like "Forfarshire" - which is simply Angus under another name. While Angus is easier to type, I have references to the "Sheriff Substitute of Forfarshire" so I settled on that 19th century shire-style name, even for earlier events. Try and be consistent - for instance, if I were to put Warrington into Cheshire, then because that's a post-1974 Cheshire, I'd put Liverpool into the post-1974 Merseyside. But you'll probably end up saying "There's nothing like consistency and this is nothing like...." Adrian B