I think we will figure this out. Some one who is direct from Nancy and John will be found. --- On Thu, 12/16/10, Don <dhr1953@hotmail.com> wrote: > From: Don <dhr1953@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [EVANS-RICHARD] Richard, Elizabeth, Kingsbury & John Evans > To: evans-richard@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 11:13 AM > I had seen this also Roger.  I > agree if you don't get to see the document, > only someone's transcription, on Ancestry or elsewhere, it > is as the > expression goes, 'a crap shoot.'  On Ancestry, I watch > people post something > and within days perhaps, 10 or 12 others have picked this > up and added it to > another tree, their own I suppose.  Then One World > Tree picks it up and > declares that 10 or 12 people have posted it to their tree, > therefore it > must be right. > > I am not unique in my research problems I know, but I have > a 2G Grandfather > whose given name is Sluman.  Virtually no one wanted > to accept that his name > could actually be Sluman.  Then my surname grandfather > enjoyed rotating his > name around, making it a nightmare to track him. > > Such is the world of genealogy research.  I guess if > we didn't have > perseverance we would find a less stressing hobby.  > "grin"    Don > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Burbank > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:31 AM > To: evans-richard@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [EVANS-RICHARD] Richard, Elizabeth, Kingsbury > & John Evans > > From going to land of mistakes(ancestry.com) I found a > dozen trees.  Most > had John W. Evans as Dudley's son, mother was Anarah > Williams, grand parents > were John Evans and Rebecca Ann Martin.  At least it > explains the name > Anarah.  Waiting on some doc proof from some Windsor > researchers.  Roger > > --- On Thu, 12/16/10, Paul Thorn <p_aculeius@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > From: Paul Thorn <p_aculeius@hotmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [EVANS-RICHARD] Richard, Elizabeth, > Kingsbury & John Evans > > To: evans-richard@rootsweb.com > > Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 3:15 AM > > > > On the West Virginia State Archives website there's a > Vital > > Records finder with photographic copies of the > surviving > > books.  What is shown for this period are lists > of > > marriages solemnized by various ministers or justices > of the > > peace. > > > > Under "Marriages Solemnized by Joseph A. Shackelford," > I > > find "John W. Evans & Nancy Wells, 21 October > 1813", and > > less than three months later, "John Evans & Nancy > > Windsor, 6 January 1814". > > > > There's a remote possibility that it could be the > same > > couple recorded a second time with the maiden name > > changed.  But I think that quite unlikely. > > > > There could be a marriage bond, as some do exist > covering > > this period.  But there isn't one in any of the > books > > microfilmed for this project.  Obviously there > was a > > list of marriages solemnized by each minister, but > looking > > at the typing, I think they may have been copied back > in WPA > > days.  The originals might no longer exist, or > may have > > been lost.  If they're still in the custody of > the > > state, they could be at the State Archives or at WVU. > > There's a less appealing possibility, that they could > be at > > the Monongalia County Courthouse.  County > officials are > > less likely to keep track of them or keep them in > good > > condition. > > > > Probably not the most useful information, but at > least > > there's a book available for everyone to look at. > > > > Paul > > > > > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:01:22 -0800 > > > From: burby9@yahoo.com > > > To: evans-richard@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [EVANS-RICHARD] Richard, Elizabeth, > > Kingsbury & John Evans > > > > > > Hi, since Nancy Windsor is in my Windsor line I > have > > emailed Windsor researchers asking what they have on > her > > husband John Evans. I have several generations of > their > > children which probably does not help this > problem.  We > > know who her parents were William Windsor and > Parthenia > > Connoway. I wonder if there is a marriage license or > bond on > > Nancy out there. Roger > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Paul Thorn <p_aculeius@hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Paul Thorn <p_aculeius@hotmail.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [EVANS-RICHARD] Richard, > Elizabeth, > > Kingsbury & John Evans > > > > To: evans-richard@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 9:09 PM > > > > > > > > In reply to questions posed by both Renée > and > > Don: > > > > > > > > With respect to guardianship proceedings: > there > > are two > > > > different reasons for appointing guardians. > > One is to > > > > place someone else, such as a stepfather, in > the > > legal > > > > position of a parent.  Since James > Kingsbury > > was not > > > > the father of the Evans children, he > probably > > needed to be > > > > appointed their guardian in order to > represent > > them in > > > > day-to-day matters.  This kind of > > guardianship would > > > > necessarily have been created soon after > his > > marriage to the > > > > children's mother, Elizabeth Hall Evans. > > This is the > > > > kind of guardianship most people are > familiar > > with today. > > > > > > > > The second kind of guardianship is one less > > familiar today, > > > > but it was still quite common through the > 19th > > and into the > > > > 20th Centuries.  A guardian would be > > appointed to > > > > represent the legal interests of minors > with > > respect to > > > > property inherited from a deceased parent. > > Even though > > > > James Kingsbury might have been a good and > honest > > man and > > > > stepfather, from a legal standpoint he would > have > > been in a > > > > position to harm the children's interest in > the > > land they > > > > inherited from their father.  If he > had > > children of his > > > > own before his marriage, or by Elizabeth, > he > > would have a > > > > substantial motive to act in their favour at > the > > expense of > > > > his stepchildren.  The law dealt with > this > > conflict by > > > > requiring a guardian who had no interest in > the > > land, and > > > > who therefore could be presumed to act in > the > > best interests > > > > of the children. > > > > > > > > I can't be certain why guardianship > proceedings > > would have > > > > been commenced eleven years after the death > of > > Richard > > > > Evans, but they might have become necessary > > because of a > > > > change or dispute with respect to the land > that > > was part of > > > > Richard's estate.  For instance, if > there > > was a dispute > > > > over selling part of it, or even if all of > the > > family agreed > > > > to sell, or lease, or take some other legal > > action with > > > > respect to the land.  A guardian would > have > > been > > > > necessary to ensure that James Kingsbury > didn't > > act to the > > > > detriment of his stepchildren, who were the > real > > owners of > > > > the land.  It could even have been > triggered > > by a > > > > change in the status of the children; > perhaps > > when Ann came > > > > of age at sixteen, and was legally entitled > to > > act on her > > > > own behalf, a guardian became necessary to > > protect the > > > > interests of her brothers and sister, who > were > > still > > > > minors.  It could also be that Benjamin > Hall > > replaced > > > > an earlier guardian who had died or > resigned. > > > > > > > > However, I don't think it's very likely that > the > > > > guardianship proceedings date from 1704. > > I've been > > > > trying to think of ways that this could have > been > > changed to > > > > 1714, but they seem > overly-complicated.  And > > more > > > > importantly, we know that Ann was over > sixteen, > > Samuel over > > > > fourteen but under eighteen, and Elizabeth > over > > fourteen but > > > > under sixteen.  If the guardianship > > proceedings took > > > > place in 1714, then Richard, the youngest > son, > > might have > > > > been born within three years of the others, > and > > all four > > > > might have been born within six or eight > years of > > each > > > > other.  If they took place in 1704, > then > > Ann, Samuel, > > > > and Elizabeth were all born no later than > 1690, > > while > > > > Richard was born in 1703.  That seems > > highly > > > > improbable.  In his article, "Hall > Family of > > Calvert > > > > County," Christopher Johnson estimates > > Elizabeth's date of > > > > birth as 1673.  That would be fine if > her > > children were > > > > born from 1696 to 1703 or so, but it seems > > unlikely she > > > > would have had three children by the age of > > seventeen. > > > > So I believe 1714 is probably the correct > > year.  Of > > > > course we do need to find the originals! > > > > > > > > With respect to John Kingsbury, it does > appear > > that James > > > > had a son by that name.  But whether he > was > > a son of > > > > Elizabeth Hall is not clear, since we don't > know > > when he was > > > > born, or whether his father was married > > before.  In my > > > > opinion, we should consider him a > "possible" > > half-brother to > > > > the Evans children, although it may be that > he > > was only > > > > half-brother to James and Priscilla.  > And > > while he > > > > probably died before 1743, I don't think we > can > > completely > > > > rule out the possibility that he was the > same > > John Kingsbury > > > > who was a witness to Ann Evans Pottenger's > > will.  If he > > > > had been her brother, she probably would > have > > made a bequest > > > > to him, instead of making him a witness. > > But if he > > > > wasn't a blood relation, that might explain > his > > role. > > > > And if Elizabeth Hall wasn't his mother, > that > > might explain > > > > why he wasn't mentioned in her will.  > I > > think there are > > > > too many unknowns to assign him to one > status or > > the other. > > > > > > > > I can't rule out the possibility that the > John > > Evans who > > > > married Sarah Miller was the son of Edward > Evans > > and Sarah > > > > Wood.  Since the John Evans who > married > > Elizabeth > > > > Windsor is probably the son of Gerard Evans, > and > > grandson of > > > > Edward, I would tend to suppose that the one > who > > married > > > > Nancy Windsor was a member of the same > > family.  In this > > > > case, the one who married Sarah Miller may > have > > been the son > > > > of Thomas Evans, the ferryman.  It > might > > help, however, > > > > to identify where they lived, whether they > owned > > any land, > > > > and whether they moved away. > > > > > > > > One of the main stumbling blocks is that two > of > > the John > > > > Evanses married women named Nancy.  As > I > > previously > > > > speculated, I think the father of the > various > > children > > > > including Nimrod Evans was probably John W. > > Evans, the son > > > > of Dudley Evans, and that he married Nancy > Wells > > in > > > > 1813.  But at the moment I can't prove > that > > he wasn't > > > > the one who married Nancy Windsor. > > > > > > > > Because the three Evans families of > Monongalia > > County are > > > > so easily confused, and could even have > > interacted with one > > > > another from time to time (I think it's > fairly > > certain that > > > > John Evans, Sr. and his children interacted > with > > practically > > > > everybody in the county), we should keep a > record > > of all > > > > three families for at least a generation or > > two.  That > > > > way, when we run into problems identifying > one > > Evans or > > > > another, we'll have a source to look at and > say, > > "ah, that > > > > one was a member of the John Evans family, > not > > ours" or the > > > > like. > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > From: dhr1953@hotmail.com > > > > > To: evans-richard@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:15:02 -0600 > > > > > Subject: Re: [EVANS-RICHARD] Richard, > > Elizabeth, > > > > Kingsbury & John Evans > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Renee. > > > > > > > > > > I want to thank the many respondents in > the > > last few > > > > days stirring a lively > > > > > debate and exchange of Evans family > data > > and > > > > lineage.  Don Raymond > > > > > > > > > > I do however have some questions that > are > > quite > > > > perplexing to me. > > > > > 1.  We have an established fact > that > > Richard > > > > Evans died in 1703.  My > > > > > question is why would there be > guardianship > > > > proceedings for minor children > > > > > some 11 years after the parent's > > death?  If this > > > > date was 1704, I could see > > > > > it having relevance.  But 11 > years > > later does not > > > > seem to make sense.  One > > > > > problem we have in discussing these > things > > is in > > > > understanding > > > > > English/Colonial Law which was in > effect at > > this > > > > time.  Another is that I > > > > > personally have seen no original > documents, > > only > > > > someone else's > > > > > transcription of documents.  Even > these > > are many > > > > times republished several > > > > > times over leaving one concerned with > > accuracy as each > > > > person republished > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Again, working from a > transcription. > > > > Elizabeth (Hall) Evans, Kingsbury's > > > > > will in 1743, leaves property to her > > daughter, > > > > Priscilla Groom along with > > > > > others of her family. This will > assigns > > James > > > > Kingsbury (Dr. James & > > > > > Elizabeth's son) as her executor.  > No > > mention is > > > > made of John Kingsbury > > > > > which did exist based on a deed > transfer > > from Dr. > > > > James & Elizabeth (Hall) > > > > > Evans, Kingsbury to their sons, James > & > > John, > > > > probably made in 1724 or 1725 > > > > > since Dr. James Kingsbury died in 1726. > This > > land was > > > > subsequently > > > > > transferred to Elihu Hall in 1731 at > which > > time both > > > > James Jr. & John are > > > > > alive. This leaves one to presume John > has > > died > > > > between 1731 and 1743. > > > > > > > > > > Then additional transcribed documents > report > > James > > > > Kingsbury Jr. gave his > > > > > son, John Kingsbury, a cow in 1753. > Telling > > us James > > > > Jr. has carried on his > > > > > brother's name. > > > > > > > > > > Knowing that girls did not always > inherit > > land from > > > > their parents leaves us > > > > > with the continued problem of > identifying > > Priscilla's > > > > parentage correctly, > > > > > Evans or Kingsbury. > > > > > > > > > > 3. Another question is the one of a > Richard > > Hall, son > > > > of Richard & Elizabeth > > > > > (Hall) Evans.  I have had a > family > > structure for > > > > Richard and Elizabeth since > > > > > 1985 or before, garnered from > transcribed > > and > > > > published sources, not > > > > > original, but until recently, had > never > > heard of or > > > > read any mention of a > > > > > child named Richard in this > family.  I > > am not > > > > doubting it, but, if we need > > > > > the guardianship documents to validate > this, > > I guess > > > > that is the direction > > > > > we need to direct our energies. And > hope the > > date is > > > > not 1714 or that there > > > > > is a valid explanation for that late > date. > > > > > > > > > > 4. The debate of John Evans (the many > John > > Evans) has > > > > still left me without > > > > > a connection to the John Evans born 12 > Nov > > 1785, > > > > married in Monongalia Co., > > > > > VA. on 23 Feb 1809 to Sarah Miller, > daughter > > of > > > > Abraham Miller Sr. & > > > > > Elizabeth Pigman, then moved to Green > Twp., > > Ross Co., > > > > OH. to live out their > > > > > lives.  As I say, I know how > Sarah > > Miller > > > > connects back to the Evans family > > > > > of Maryland but I can't establish a > family > > for this > > > > John Evans.  Even though > > > > > there doesn’t seem to be a connection > yet > > for this > > > > John Evans, your > > > > > information is of great value in > sorting > > through the > > > > large number of that > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > > Again, Thanks to all. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an > > email to > > > > EVANS-RICHARD-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send > an > > email to EVANS-RICHARD-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > EVANS-RICHARD-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > EVANS-RICHARD-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > EVANS-RICHARD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to EVANS-RICHARD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message