Cheri-- It will be easier to answer your questions where you pose them so will mark my answers ** in the left margin. Donna Okay, it might not make me the most popular person on the list, but I want to jump into this discussion. As one of many cousins on this list who are descended from Priscilla, I want to be able to document all known facts about her situation for future generations of my family line. If the rest of you on the Estes List get tired of the discussion before we do, we can collect email addresses and take it off-list for just those who are interested. That's perfectly understandable. Meanwhile, I think I have the same questions that Marilyn did (I think, mind you), but mine were not answered with Donna's response. ** I answered what I thought was being asked. Donna, I appreciate that you took the time to send all the information you did and I appreciate that you've been a genealogist for 46 years. I know you've done a lot of work to find answers about our shared family members, and I appreciate the amount of effort you've put into the research. I just wanted to get that right out front so you hopefully will not feel attacked or flamed by my questions & discussion. I am also well aware of Pat Finnell's excellent research work. Likewise, I hope you can recognize that those of us who have been at this a shorter time may have *very* good research skills -- even equal to yours. **I do recognize that fact, I listed the length of time merely to show I'm not a novice, not to imply anything else.. Sorry to say, I do not think any of us is an authority on this subject. I am also painfully aware that several "documented" publications contain erroneous information or "enhance" the facts; some contain outright fabrications. I have not been able to buy your book on my meager budget, so I have no questions about what is in the book. I just want to know what your sources are for the statements you made on all these lists about Priscilla's capture, life with the Indians and rescue. The information you listed as sources for what is in your book were non-specific, so I still know no more now than I did before you listed them. **How could I have been more specific without typing almost 20 pages of data. I may be retired, but I don't have that kind of time not eyesight to type the whole thing. I guess you can crank some films like I did. I have studied almost all of those same sources (most of which are secondary sources) and do not come away with any *facts* that directly state any of those things actually involved Priscilla. Not one of them gives her name and we do not, as a group of searching cousins, have (to my knowledge) any other hard fact that even gives a definite location or date for *any* of these events. **Her son George's death certificate states she was born in Greenbrier (it was not yet a county, but it was called Greenbrier country after the river. **McKenzie had just moved only a month or so before the raid from Walker Creek (mouth near Pearisburg) to Wolf Creek where the raid occurred. I haven't found purchase deeds yet for Richard Estes but he had lived on Walker Creek & later lived on Wolf Creek. Maybe his move was in progress & that was the reason Priscilla was staying with some other family. To document that Richard Estes lived on Wolf Creek, I found a deed in Giles Co. describing the property that was being sold as that originally surveyed for Richard Estes. It was dated shortly after 1808 when Giles was formed. I'd cite dates & things, but I really have a hard time seeing book print these days. He paid taxes there in 1788 but was listed as not there in 1789. You might wish to check Franklin Co., VA tax lists as Priscilla's mother Mary & her son Thomas Townsend were there & I never found there names in the coumnties the Wolf Creek area has been in. **The only thing that was found that indicates when Mary died was Thomas Townsend being issued 22 May 1789 Bounty Land Warrant #2210-200-Lieut. for his father William Townsend's service in the French & Indian War & normally the bounty land was issued to the widow if she were still living. **location documents for Richard Estes 1760 Lunenburg Co tax 1768 in Mecklenburg Co to prove deed for Wm winn 1769 in Lunenburg Co, two doors from Mary Stone's father 1770 in Greenbrier country for Priscilla's b. 1772 Lunenburg Co, processioned Wm winn's lines " tax 1777-79 Montgomery Co, VA court record & militia 10 Nov 1777 he & McKenzie took Oath, stating they live on Walker's Creek, members of Capt. Joseph Cloyd's Co. Feb 1778 Montgomery Co tax 1778 Joshua Townsend enlisted in Montg. militia Thomas Townsend enlisted in Henry Co. 1779 Richard appointed Lieutenant of Militia, Capt Joseph Gardiner's Co. composed of men from "Walker's Creek & down New River". 1779-80 in Greenbrier Co per Joshua's pension papers 1782 Montgomery Co tax 1782-3 Henry Co tax 1786 listed in father's estate settlement as living in NC. 10 Oct 1786 Montgomery Co Deed, Richd assigned land office warrant for 50 acres on S. side of Wolf Creek 1786-7 Franklin Co tax, also 3 Richd's listed in Henry Co in 1787 1787 Montgomery Co tax listed a John Estridge on List B & Richard is on List C so they didn't live close. That is only Estes/Estridge I found in the records in Montgomery Co. besides the reference to Richard Estridge in my documentation. McKenzies also on list C which is described as "Walker's Creek from mouth to Sugar Run ^& Whitley's Branch, wolf Creek & Sinking Doe Creeks near mouths." 1788 Montg. tax1789 listed as not there After that he is in Madison Co., KY records, as are all of Priscilla's siblings. Priscilla m. there in early 1788. There were hundreds -- thousands -- of attacks, captures, white children who were raised with Indian families, and even rescues during that same time frame and in the same areas our family lived. Unless a name is given, it's impossible to be certain. **I believe that the the analysis the 3 of us did is accurate & correct. If you don't, then go look at the records yourself as we have done. The McKenzie/McKensey story is where the hired girl is mentioned as a "young woman." And the whole **Marilyn said the same thing, but I don't see "young woman" when I read it, I see "young girl". Richard Estridge thing is terribly suspect in my mind, because there were families who were in those same areas at the same times who went by the surnames of Estridge and Eskridge at least since their feet hit **In the area where Richard was living I only found the one--see above. I did find several in the deeds in Lunenburg who had puchased their land as Estes, & sold it as Estridge. The ones I saw were for Richd's relatives. U.S. soil. They never went by Estes in the U.S. I know that because I'm related to them (not through the Estes family). Same land from description. The ESTES name has been "re-worked" many ways, but I'm reluctant to vault to the conclusion that if there is a somewhat similar story that names a Richard Estridge as the father of one captive child, that child is actually our Priscilla ESTES. In this case, the story has been turned around anyway, since in the actual account Richard Estridge's daughter was not taken by the Indians. She ran for help. I'm especially reluctant to throw the Estridge assumption around as fact and stretch it out further to mean that Priscilla's father was Richard Estes (because we can't figure out which Estes it would have been otherwise). **ok., find me another Estes/Estridge in the area of Wolf or Walker Creeks in what is now Giles Co. If you look them up on the map they are both flowing to the north into New River near The Narrows & Pearisburg. If ALL other facts (or at least most of them) match what else we know, I'm much less reluctant. That isn't the case here. There is also a MILLER story that is so similar it would make your hair stand on end, and it happened right where our MILLERs were at the time. What does any of that prove? I have had a burning question since I first saw someone assert the Richard Estridge theory: Donna's conclusions about Priscilla's capture are based on a belief that Priscilla was bound out to another family at the time of her capture. Why would she have been bound out to someone if Richard Estridge was supposedly her father (who was alive at the time) and we know that her mother was alive then as well? **Please enlighten me as to how we know Mary Stone Townsend is alive in 1778. I think she is d., otherwise why would Thomas Townsend be issued the Bounty Land??? Virtually all of the family stories even state that her parents were gone to work in the fields or take their grain to the mill (depending on the story), so why would we assume that Priscilla was the hired girl at another house? And if we do assume that, why are both of her parents living at the time? I've rolled these questions around in my mind a million times. I, too, find the Draper manuscripts pretty intriguing, but I would not go so far as to draw up the rest of the story around that manuscript story and state it all as fact. There are a great many other references besides those you named that give information that could be woven into a theory about Priscilla's life. In my own book manuscripts, I handle things that are not proven fact by either prefacing an assumption with a statement that these listed items have led me to believe it happened this way, or by using statements like "we assume," "apparently," "appears to have," and so on throughout the text. I haven't seen Donna do that, so I trust that she must have some proof for these claims. **I presented my story as light reading, for Gosh Sakes. You & others are making a big deal of it. I would like to meed Grandma Miller someday to ask her a lot of questions. You have admitted you have not seen my book, so you don't know how the material was presented in the book. It was not presented as fact or conjecture. The family versions of the story & the historical references were present just as that & it was not "woven" into anything that was proven or not proven. I have been working on connecting parts of this family for a good many years, but I have not been a genealogist for 46 years. In fact, it has only been in the past few years that I was able to determine with certainty that Priscilla ESTES was indeed "my" Priscilla. I am more than happy to share whatever information I find or possess with anyone else who is interested. The more people we have with all the available information, the more additional information we're likely to find. **One major problem with my sharing--I don't have the stuff in my book on my computer. Had a different computer, it crashed, finished up on a friends & it isn't even on floppies. And after paying more to have the book printed than I paid for my house, I don't feel obligated to give too many freebies. Even when I have a book for sale, my data is available to cousins, because cousins have contributed immensely to the proof and conjecture alike in my files. I am only the compiler and author of the commentary. **That is all I am, the compiler, so I guess that is why I don't understand all the challenge. I wrote what I thought was a fun story, not presenting it as any- thing other that what I thought her personality to be, & I get all kinds of questions. I just want to know, specifically, what information in the named sources points an absolute finger at Priscilla in those events. **Its called by DAR, "preponderance of the evidence". You don't find one single document proving the fact, but you add up the tons of data & it all points to that direction. Is my search for the story really over, or are these just assumptions and educated guesses you've made, Donna? If you've found the goods that give us some fact, I think we'll all shout "hooray" and sing, "For she's a jolly good fellow..." But if these answers are not solid fact, we need to keep looking. All I'm asking is, "Is it fact or assumption?" If it's fact, please share chapter, verse and line with the rest of us so we can start directing our energies elsewhere. **I'm not going to type out the whole thing. Sorry. I type with one hand because I have to hold the copy about 6 inches from my nose with the other hand. I've given you enough to lead you on the right path to the documents. Cheri