G'day Donna (& others), [I'm cc'ing a copy of this to the estes list in case anyone else might be interested.] Re the bit you mentioned about the Elisha Estes who died c.1806 in Charlotte Co, VA and who had a daughter who married a Nathaniel journey, I found the following family group on the web which looks to be this family. Children of ELISHA ESTES and ? are:  xii. LUCY8 ESTES, m. NATHANIEL JOURNEY. xiii. MARY ANN ?, b. Abt. 1753, Lunenburg Co., VA.  xiv. MILDRED ESTES, b. Abt. 1755, LUNENBURG;VA..  xv. NANCY ESTES, b. Abt. 1757, Lunenburg, VA..  xvi. ELIZABETH ESTES, b. Abt. 1759, LUNENBURG;VA..  xvii. FRANCES ESTES, b. Abt. 1761, LUNENBURG;VA..  xviii. SARAH ESTES, b. Abt. 1763, LUNENBURG;VA..  xix. JOHN ESTES, b. Abt. 1765, ;LUNENBURG;VA..  xx. MARTHA ESTES, b. 1769, ;LUNENBURG;VA..  xxi. THOMAS ESTES, b. Abt. 1771, ;LUNENBURG;VA.. I should warn you straight up that the chart I extracted this out of is brim full of mistakes and a lot of pretty bizzare ones at that. There are no sources and the owner of the web site says he's putting it up for "public interest". It's not his chart BTW, he doesn't even know who sent it to him .. his own research is quite good, so I'm not flaming the chap in question (and I'm intentionally not saying who he is). The above section was actually one of the *three* families attributed to "Elisha Estes and Mary Stone" in the chart .. to give you an idea of the unreliability of the chart .. "xiii.Mary Ann" was listed as marrying Elisha Estes, who was the father of the Elisha who married Mary Stone in another family grouping in the same chart. :) However, having said that, while many of the connections between family groups were pretty bizzare, to say the least, I found that almost all the actual family groups were pretty consistent with what I've got. A few ring-in children here and there .. but hey, everyone's got them. :) Anyways, I would suggest that the above family group is that of the Elisha who died c.1806, Charlotte Co, VA. It's obviously not the children of Mary Stone. *grin* Whoever she married!! The dob's are obviously estimates .. all carefully 2 years apart with 1767 missing (but one child without a dob (Lucy), so her estimate has likely been lost and her position in the family mixed up since genie software tends to do that kinda thing. The Frances here would seem to be a good candidate for the Frances, d/o Elisha Estes, who married William Winn Cockerham in 1793. She was most likely born 1770-1775 (not the 1761 given in the chart). If she was the eldest child then Elisha would've been born around 1750. If she was the youngest, then we're looking at a dob for Elisha of around 1730. As a short sideline, from Lunen. Co, VA marriage records (reprinted in Estes Trails), there're the following Estes who could be part of this family (they're not otherwise accounted for): Elisha, born 1780-est, married Elizabeth Blakenship, 29/11/1806 Henson, born 1775-est, married Martha Blakenship, 20/12/1799 John, born 1755-est, married Mary Estes, 23/1/1778 Mary, born 1780-est, married Charles Byasse, 10/8/1804 Estimates of births are my own, and assume they are 1st marriages. The name of the wife in the 3rd one has been suggested as being a mistake, tho' it could've been a 1st or 2nd cousin. If John is the John in the above family group, he'd then be born a bit earlier than the 1761 estimate way up above. If Frances (c.1770/1775) was Elisha's last child, then John would fit perfectly as his first child with a dob of c.1755. The mary who married Chas Byasse _could_ be the d/o Elisha, however I'd say his daughter would've been too old. 20 years is a reasonable spread for children back then, but 30 is stretching things a bit. I would say that Mary, Henson and Elisha were children of John and Mary Estes who married 1778. So rewriting the chart: Elisha, born about 1730; spent most is adult life in Lunenburg Co, VA and died in neighbouring Charlotte Co, VA c.1806 (which was formed from Lunen). Married unknown. Children of Elisha Estes & unknown: i. John Estes, born c.1755. Married Mary (Estes?), 1778, Lunenburg Co, VA. Children: Henson (c.1778), Elisha (1780) & Mary (1785) of Lunenburg Co, VA. ii. Lucy Estes, married Nathaniel Journey. iii. Mary Ann Estes iv. Mildred Estes v. Nancy Estes vi. Elizabeth Estes vii. Sarah Estes viii. Martha Estes ix. Thomas Estes x. Frances Estes, born c.1770/1775. Married William Cockerham, 1793, Lunenburg Co, VA. The only candidate I have for this Elisha would be Elisha, son of John Estes (1701-1771). This Elisha was born in the late 1720's and was in Halifax Co, VA in 1771 and 1779, with wife, Jane. Halifax borders Lunenburg and Charlotte counties. And, surprise, surprise, that would then mean that Elisha followed tradition and named his eldest son after his father. So now we need some evidence to back up this theory .. or shoot it out of the water. :) David. -- I bless the day I met you and I thank God that he let you lay beside me for a moment that lives on and the good news is I'm better for the time we spent together and the bad news is you're gone. - "You're Gone", Diamond Rio DC2.D A+++! L^ Pfwl Bfl Fo R+++! Ac+ J-- S++ Fr+++! I+ H++ $ M V+++ Cag http://xenon.triode.net.au/~dragon mailto:dragon@triode.net.au