Brad Rogers wrote: > On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:05:27 +0100 > Firebird <sparrer@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello Firebird, > >> the actual signatures, although there are some register offices now >> which are refusing to issue "historical" certificates, ie those before >> 1900. > > That's not lawful, surely? No, I don't think it is, but I'm not up on the finer points. The register offices in question tend to refer customers to the GRO.

Hello Firebird, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Firebird" <sparrer@gmail.com>To: <essex-uk@rootsweb.com> > Brad Rogers wrote: >> On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:05:27 +0100 >> Firebird <sparrer@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hello Firebird, >> >>> the actual signatures, although there are some register offices now >>> which are refusing to issue "historical" certificates, ie those before >>> 1900.>> >> That's not lawful, surely? > No, I don't think it is, but I'm not up on the finer points. The > register offices in question tend to refer customers to the GRO. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As you say in another posting, shortage of staff/funds/time is the normal reason giving. But, as I posted earlier this year on another list: The law, to us mere mortals, seems reasonably clear. [see extracts below] But, and what a big BUT, individual superintendent registrars, and Registrars-General, have but their own glosses on these provisions. In particular, I think, the superintendent registrar has been deemed not to be a registrar within the terms of the Act, unless specifically mentioned as such, which leads to inability to search register-books which the registrar has delivered to the superintendent registrar. [despite, these days, their normally being in the same office!] Various local register offices have declared they are unable to supply "historic" certificates, particularly of marriages, usually quoting staffing problems. Can anyone say where the General Register Office now is?? I believe the Registrar-General's office is still in London, but the certificates office is in Southport, and the indexes only available in outdated microform. Can you find anything in the Act prohibiting the issue electronically of an uncertified copy of a register or quarterly copy entry? Yet the GRO insists that it is illegal to do so. Regards John Henley [from the Marriage Act 1949]: 63.-(I) Every incumbent, registering officer of the Society of Friends, secretary of a synagogue and registrar by whom a marriage register book is kept shall at all reasonable hours allow searches to be made in any marriage register book in his keeping, and shall give a copy certified under his hand of any entry in such a book, on payment of the following fee, that is to say- (a) for every search covering a period of not more than one year, the sum of one shilling, and for every search covering a period of more than one year, the sum of one shilling for the first year together with an additional sixpence for every additional year; and (b) for every certified copy, the sum of two shillings and sixpence. (2) The last foregoing subsection shall apply in the case of a registered building for which an authorised person has been appointed with the substitution for the reference to the incumbent of a reference to the person having the custody of a marriage register book in accordance with regulations made under section seventy-four of this Act. 64.-(I) Every superintendent registrar shall cause indexes of the marriage register books in his office to be made and to be kept with the other records of his office, and the Registrar General shall supply to every superintendent registrar suitable forms for the making of such indexes. (2) Any person shall be entitled at all reasonable hours to search the said indexes, and to have a certified copy of any entry in the said marriage register books under the hand of the superintendent registrar, on payment to the superintendent registrar of the following fee, that is to say :- (a) for every general search, the sum of five shillings : (b) for every particular search, the sum of one shilling : and (c) for every certified copy, the sum of two shillings and sixpence. 65.-(I) The Registrar General shall cause indexes of all certified copies of entries in marriage register books sent to him under this Part of this Act to be made and kept in the General Register Office. (2) Any person shall be entitled to search the said indexes between the hours of ten in the morning and four in the afternoon of every day, except Sundays, Christmas Day and Good Friday, and to have a certified copy of any entry in the said certified copies of marriage register books, on payment to the Registrar General or to such other person as may be appointed to act on his behalf of the following fee, that is to say :- (a) for every general search, the sum of twenty shillings ; (b) for every particular search, the sum of one shilling ; and (c) for every certified copy, the sum of two shillings and sixpence. (3) The Registrar General shall cause all certified copies of entries given in the General Register Office to be sealed or stamped with the seal of that Office ; and any certified copy of an entry to be sealed or stamped with the said seal shall be received as evidence of the marriage to which it relates without any further or other proof of the entry, and no certified copy purporting to have been given in the said Office shall be of any force or effect unless it is sealed or stamped as aforesaid. (4) Every sum received under this section by or on behalf of the Registrar General shall be accounted for by the Registrar General and paid by him, at such times as the Treasury from time to time may direct, into the Exchequer. 66. Any certificate, return or other document required by this Part of this Act to be delivered or sent to the Registrar General, a superintendent registrar or a registrar may be sent by post. ----------source http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1949bAct.htm and the Births & Deaths Registration Act, 1953: Searches and Certificates 30.-(1) The Registrar General shall cause indexes of all certified copies of entries in registers sent to him under this Act or under any enactment repealed by this Act to be made and kept in the General Register Office. (2) Any person shall be entitled to search the said indexes at any time when the General Register Office is open for that purpose, and to have a certified copy of any entry in the said certified copies, on payment to the Registrar General or to such other person on his behalf of the following fees respectively, that is to say- (a) for every general search the sum of thirty shillings ; (b) for every particular search, the sum of one shilling and sixpence ; and (c) for every certified copy, the sum of three shillings and ninepence. (3) The foregoing provisions of this section shall not apply to certified copies of entries in registers of still-births, but the Registrar General may, if he sees fit in any particular case and on payment of as aforesaid of the appropriate fee aforesaid, cause a search to be made for, and allow any person to have a certified copy of any entry in any such certified copies or in any filled register of still-births which has been forwarded to him. 31.-(1) Every superintendent registrar shall cause indexes of the registers of live-births and registers of deaths in his register office to be made and to be kept with the other records of that office, and the Registrar General shall supply to every superintendent registrar suitable forms for the making of such indexes. (2) Any person shall be entitled at any time when the register office is required to be open for the transaction of public business to search the said indexes, and to have a certified copy of any entry in the said registers under the hand of the superintendent register, on payment by that person to the of the superintendent registrar of the following fees respectively, that is to say- (a) for every general search, the sum of seven shillings and sixpence ; (b) for every particular search, the sum of one shilling and sixpence ; and (c) for every certified copy, the sum of three shillings and ninepence. 32. Every registrar shall at any time when his office is required to be open for the transaction of public business allow searches to be made in any register of births or register of deaths in his keeping, and shall give a copy certified under his hand of any entry therein, on payment of the following fees respectively, that is to say- (a) for every search covering a period of not more than one year, the sum of one shilling and sixpence ; (b) for every search covering a period of more than one year, the sum of one shilling and sixpence for the first year together with an additional ninepence for every additional year ; and (c) for every certified copy the sum of three shillings and ninepence : Provided that this section shall not apply in relation to a register of still-births except as the registrar may, with the consent of the Registrar General, in any particular case allow. 33.-(1) Any person shall, on payment of a fee of ninepence and on furnishing the prescribed particulars, be entitled to obtain from the Registrar General, a superintendent registrar or a registrar a short certificate of the birth of any person. (2) Any such certificate shall be in the prescribed form and shall be compiled in the prescribed manner from the records and registers in the custody of the Registrar General, or from the registers in the custody of the superintendent registrar or registrar, as the case may be, and shall contain such particulars as may be prescribed : Provided that any particulars prescribed in addition to name, surname, sex and date of birth shall not include any particulars relating to parentage or adoption contained in any such records or registers. -------source: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1953Act.htm ---------------