Hi Malcolm & Listers ! I would suggest that either (a) they were the "local" Ordnance Survey team who produced / revised the maps of that area on a regular basis ?; or (b) that they were in the area on a temporary basis to carry out a revision ? Is there any suggestion that they are listed as "Lodgers" which might mean that the latter is the case ? - or did they have their families with them which might make the former, more permanent suggestion more likely ? I hope this helps ! Best Wishes ! Roger. -------------------- On 6 Aug 2008, at 16:41, Malcolm Mills wrote: > Dear Listers > My gggrandfather William Anthony Lennox was a Land/Ordnance Surveyor. > The 1871 census shows him living in High Ongar. The census also shows > others, listed as Surveyor assistants, living close by to him in the > village. > I wonder if any one on the list has a theory or opinion as to why a > clutch of people working for the Ordnance Survey should be living in > High Ongar around 1871, > With many thanks > Malcolm H Mills >

Hello Roger and Listers Thanks for that useful info. My gggrandfather was accompanied by his family on his various tours of duty (as a Surveyor with the OS) elsewhere in the British Isles (ie Ireland, Scotland and England). Each appears to have been of 3-5 years duration. When living in High Ongar in 1871, his immediate neighbour (an Asst OS Surveyor) also lived with his family. There were others elsewhere in the village recorded as 'lodgers' and shown working as 'OS draughtsmen' and 'OS labourers'. From Essex records, I now notice that the the Loughton railway was being extended beyond Woodford to High Ongar in 1865. So he might have been involved with railway surveying and mapping for that project in some way. And I had always assumed he worked with the Army because one of his daughters married into the Royal Artillery whilst the family lived in High Ongar. Now I'm not so sure!! Thanks again. Any further thoughts you might have would be very welcome, Malcolm On 6 Aug 2008, at 23:06, Roger Partridge wrote: > Hi Malcolm & Listers ! > > I would suggest that either (a) they were the "local" Ordnance > Survey team > who produced / revised the maps of that area on a regular basis ?; > or (b) > that they were in the area on a temporary basis to carry out a > revision ? > > Is there any suggestion that they are listed as "Lodgers" which might > mean that the latter is the case ? - or did they have their > families with them > which might make the former, more permanent suggestion more likely ? > > I hope this helps ! Best Wishes ! Roger. > -------------------- > On 6 Aug 2008, at 16:41, Malcolm Mills wrote: > >> Dear Listers >> My gggrandfather William Anthony Lennox was a Land/Ordnance Surveyor. >> The 1871 census shows him living in High Ongar. The census also shows >> others, listed as Surveyor assistants, living close by to him in the >> village. >> I wonder if any one on the list has a theory or opinion as to why a >> clutch of people working for the Ordnance Survey should be living in >> High Ongar around 1871, >> With many thanks >> Malcolm H Mills >> > >

Hi Malcolm, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Mills" <malcolm@mhmills.co.uk> > Hello Roger and Listers > Thanks for that useful info. > My gggrandfather was accompanied by his family on his various tours > of duty (as a Surveyor with the OS) elsewhere in the British Isles > (ie Ireland, Scotland and England). Each appears to have been of 3-5 > years duration. > When living in High Ongar in 1871, his immediate neighbour (an Asst > OS Surveyor) also lived with his family. There were others elsewhere > in the village recorded as 'lodgers' and shown working as 'OS > draughtsmen' and 'OS labourers'. > From Essex records, I now notice that the the Loughton railway was > being extended beyond Woodford to High Ongar in 1865. So he might > have been involved with railway surveying and mapping for that > project in some way. And I had always assumed he worked with the Army > because one of his daughters married into the Royal Artillery whilst > the family lived in High Ongar. Now I'm not so sure!! If the railway came through the neighbourhood in 1865, any survey would have been made prior to the legislation which enabled it being deposited it Parliament, so I would have thought detailed OS survey work unlikely six years later. But, the OS in 1871 may have just been getting around to updating its surveys of the area, OR this may even have been the first detailed survey. Look at dates of survey on the bottom of the OS maps of the time fior Essex [Essex Record Office probably has a full run] If your ggfather was permanently based in High Ongar, he may have found it easy to arrange accomodation for his assistants when a detailed survey of the surrounding area was being made. www.british-history.ac.uk: shows that map of High Ongar http://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapsheet.aspx?compid=55117&sheetid=3279 was published in 1881 -had you man gone by then? HTH Cheers John Henley researching (and not finding much time for - but always very glad to hear of any) HENLEY, PARKER, RAPER, [London/Middlesex] DURDEN, PRENTICE [Essex/London/ Woolwich] , SECKER, [Suffolk, London/Middlesex] ROLFE, (O)RAFFERTY, EVANS, PARSONS, SYMONDS [ Berks/Hants/Wilts] HILL [IN Staffs/Cambs/Berks] > Thanks again. Any further thoughts you might have would be very welcome, > Malcolm

Hi again Malcolm, John and Listers ! I am glad to hear that my info sent earlier was of some use - and now you have had some further useful thoughts from Malcolm ! I have included his email back in below as I want to comment on one of his points - I have numbered all these below (3 of yours and 1 of his and comment as follows:- 1) I think this fact that he had his family moving round with him is important as it shows his seniority and the fact that he was going to be there for a definite period for either a survey or a re-survey ! 2) The same for his Assistant Surveyor, whereas the "lower ranks" were either there for shorter periods, or not entitled to have families with them because of their lower status (or maybe were too young to have families yet ?) I think that the draughtsmen would have been producing the first drafts of the maps from the survey notebooks; and the labourers would have been clearing the way into more inaccessible places or carrying all the surveying implements, the measuring chains, etc. 3) Did you realise that the Ordnance Survey had always had very strong links with the Army - especially the Royal Artillery ? That is what the 'Ordnance' part of their name means ! The original purpose of the map-makers was to produce maps so that the Artillery could fire their guns more accurately ! This link went on for a long time; the OS used to have its HQ at Southampton, but it got bombed out early on in WW2 and it actually evacuated in towards the London area (!) - it came to an industrial estate at Chessington near Surbiton just a few miles down the road from where I live ! (In my mis-spent youth I went out with this rather stunning blonde whose Dad was an ex-Army major who worked at the OS !) They only moved back to Southampton after the war. 4) Yes, I agree with Malcolm that a survey would have had to be carried out before the railway was built as part of the planning process and getting an Act through Parliament; but once all the building of the railway was complete they would have had to go back and map it all again to show the exact position of the lines, the junctions, stations, signal boxes, etc., etc. ! As he has written you will probably find a good run of these maps at the ERO - the early Victorian sheets may even mention some of the surveyor's names ?? Best Wishes ! Roger. --------------------- On 7 Aug 2008, at 16:22, JFHH wrote: > Hi Malcolm, > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Mills" > <malcolm@mhmills.co.uk> >> Hello Roger and Listers >> Thanks for that useful info. >> My gggrandfather was accompanied by his family on his various tours >> of duty (as a Surveyor with the OS) elsewhere in the British Isles >> (ie Ireland, Scotland and England). Each appears to have been of 3-5 >> years >> duration............................................................. >> ................................(1) >> When living in High Ongar in 1871, his immediate neighbour (an Asst >> OS Surveyor) also lived with his family. There were others elsewhere >> in the village recorded as 'lodgers' and shown working as 'OS >> draughtsmen' and 'OS >> labourers'........................................................... >> .(2) >> From Essex records, I now notice that the the Loughton railway was >> being extended beyond Woodford to High Ongar in 1865. So he might >> have been involved with railway surveying and mapping for that >> project in some way. And I had always assumed he worked with the Army >> because one of his daughters married into the Royal Artillery whilst >> the family lived in High Ongar. Now I'm not so >> sure!!..........................(3) > > If the railway came through the neighbourhood in 1865, any survey > would have > been made prior to the legislation which enabled it being deposited > it Parliament, > so I would have thought detailed OS survey work unlikely six years > later...........(4) > But, the OS in 1871 may have just been getting around to updating > its surveys of > the area, OR this may even have been the first detailed > survey............................(4) > Look at dates of survey on the bottom of the OS maps of the time > for Essex [Essex > Record Office probably has a full run] > If your ggfather was permanently based in High Ongar, he may have > found it easy > to arrange accomodation for his assistants when a detailed survey > of the surrounding > area was being made. > www.british-history.ac.uk: > shows that map of High Ongar > http://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapsheet.aspx? > compid=55117&sheetid=3279 > was published in 1881 -had your man gone by then? > HTH > Cheers > > John Henley > researching (and not finding much time for - but always very glad > to hear of any) > HENLEY, PARKER, RAPER, [London/Middlesex] > DURDEN, PRENTICE [Essex/London/ Woolwich] , > SECKER, [Suffolk, London/Middlesex] > ROLFE, (O)RAFFERTY, EVANS, PARSONS, SYMONDS [ Berks/Hants/Wilts] > HILL [IN Staffs/Cambs/Berks] > > >> Thanks again. Any further thoughts you might have would be very >> welcome, >> Malcolm > -------------------- > On 6 Aug 2008, at 23:06, Roger Partridge wrote: > >> Hi Malcolm & Listers ! >> >> I would suggest that either (a) they were the "local" Ordnance >> Survey team >> who produced / revised the maps of that area on a regular basis ?; >> or (b) >> that they were in the area on a temporary basis to carry out a >> revision ? >> >> Is there any suggestion that they are listed as "Lodgers" which might >> mean that the latter is the case ? - or did they have their >> families with them >> which might make the former, more permanent suggestion more likely ? >> >> I hope this helps ! Best Wishes ! Roger. >> -------------------- >> On 6 Aug 2008, at 16:41, Malcolm Mills wrote: >> >>> Dear Listers >>> My gggrandfather William Anthony Lennox was a Land/Ordnance >>> Surveyor. >>> The 1871 census shows him living in High Ongar. The census also >>> shows >>> others, listed as Surveyor assistants, living close by to him in the >>> village. >>> I wonder if any one on the list has a theory or opinion as to why a >>> clutch of people working for the Ordnance Survey should be living in >>> High Ongar around 1871, >>> With many thanks >>> Malcolm H Mills >>> >> >> > > >