Hello Dick, Thank you for looking - yes I have some problems with this family I must admit. They seem to change names for some reason, although it was quite common in those days to do that I have found. The date of 18 June 1878 comes from the emigration record I found for a Wm Galley born 1878 sailed on the 'Southwark' from Liverpool to Quebec on 20 May 1907. I assumed this was 'my' William Galley as his wife Annie Galley is recorded as travelling on the 'Empress of Ireland' arriving at Quebec on 25 October 1907. She is down as being married, aged 29, and with her children Nellie (actually this could be Willie?) 8, Chas 6. Walley 3 and Lizzie aged 11 months. I know that Lizzie existed and was named Lizzie Georgina (Georgina named after Annie's sister Georgina Mundy) and Charles Samuel Galley existed. Not sure about who Walley was, maybe he died. I have just discovered these following records in Canada where they emigrated to: Military records for Charles Samuel Galley - Mother Annie Wright (correct) and father Wm J Galley Living at Little Current, Ontario when he enlisted as a sailor on 3 July 1916. Unmaried at the time. Military records for Alfred William Charles Galley born 23 July 1897 (I have William Galley on my tree) living at Little Current, Ontario. Father: William John Galley of Romford. Signed up 24/12/1915 - unmarried. I presume this must be the same person as William Galley as on the 1901 census in Romford? I found a marriage for Charles Samuel Galley to Florence Leonard on 1 June 1923 in York, Canada, (mother Annie Wright and father Wm J Galley). No marriage found for William Galley (or Alfred William) Marriage found for Lizzie Georgina Galley to Ernest Hunwicks of Romford on 26 Apr 1923 in York, Canada. Father Wm John Galley and Mother Annie Wright. Witness was William Galley of 329 Lippincott St and Florence Gladys Hunwicks of 329 Lippincott Street, Toronto. Regarding the marriage for William John Galley to Annie Wright - they married on 24 Oct 1896 at St Andrew's Church in Romford, witnesses were Francis Eales (I don't know anything about this man) and Georgina Beatrice Mundy who was Annie's sister. The Wright comes into force because these 2 girls were adopted by Charles Wright when he married their mother Lizzie Mundy. Both stepfathers were labourers. William and Annie address was 90 Marks Road. I have William John as a carman in 1896 but on the emigration records he is down as a light ship worker on lakes. In the 1901 census they lived at 207 Marks Road, Romford which is where my family did all live so that would be right. Charles Wright (the stepfather of Annie) was a drover. I took the marriage details off a computer at the ERO so I wonder if Everington might be Etherington? Just a thought. The records for Canada are really impressive, so detailed. Wish the English ones were as good! I hit a brick wall with William John Galley prior to 1896. Anything you can find would be a bonus for me. Many thanks, Diana Re: There doesn't seem to be an entry in the GRO indexes for Jun 1878 or Sept 1878 for your William John Galley - so what evidence do you have for his birth in Romford on 18 June 1878? There are a few births on FreeBMD for Galley in Romford, one of which is John William S, in Dec 1875, which seems more likely for someone marrying in 1896 - even though his 1901 census entry does show him as aged 23. I can't find your William, or John William S, in any pre 1901 census - althought there is a Robert Galley and wife Mary Ann in Barking in 1891 who have five children named Galley and a four year old named William Mills born East Ham who is described as 'son'. RG12/1372,Folio 109, Page 11 refers. Ancestry has indexed this child as Galley, but that's clearly wrong - especially since they have a son of their own aged seven named William, born Barking. Who are the witnesses at William's marriage? What is John Everington's occupation? What were the addresses of the bride and groom?

Hello Diana This is certainly an interesting puzzle! FreeBMD doesn't have a Romford birth for a Walter (Walley) Galley in about 1904 - but does have one for the death of a Walter George Galley aged 3 in 1893. From the 1891 census he is the son of Frederick and Thirza - possibly a relative. And Lizzie Georgina Galley is registered in 1903 - so perhaps the two younger children are transposed on the shipping list (and Walter isn't yet on FreeBMD). Trying to separate fact from conjecture, it seems to me that you can be quite certain that a woman named Annie Galley emigrated to Canada in 1907, taking four children with her, and three of those children are listed in the civil registration indexes as being born in Romford. And it seems certain that the family appear in the 1901 census in Romford - where the father is listed as William (not William J) born about 1878 in Romford. I had my suspicions that the William you found outward bound in May 1907 might not be connected, but I've found a free indexed online transcript of the 1911 census for Canada <http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/> which shows William and Annie with their children in Little Current, Ontario - and "Walley" is actually a girl identified as 'Darly' born Jan 1906 (but the only entry for the March quarter of 1906 in Romford is a girl named Kathleen Ada!) There is also a baby named Samuel. As the main evidence for William being born in Romford is the 1901 census entry, and as you say that his marriage certificate lists a stepfather, it may well be that William didn't actually know where he was born - although it might well be in or perhaps near Romford. But from the military records for two of his sons it does look aa if he was actually named William John. I spent a few minutes looking out for the two girls adopted by Charles Wright. You may of course already know this, but Annie and her mother Lizzie are both listed in the 1881 census as inmates in the Romford Workhouse, where Lizzie is shown as single, and FreeBMD has entries for the births of both Annie and Georgina Mundy, together with a marriage for Lizzie Mundy and Charles Wright, so it seems clear both girls were illegitimate. I then ran a search in 1891 for Georgina Wright in Essex - and Ancestry has 'Georgina Wrights' living with her parents Charles (a drover) and Lizzie at 48 Marks Rd. Also with them is Lizzie's mother Betsy Mundy, widow, 50, needlewoman, born Romford. And at no. 51 are John Etherton and his wife Frances Amelia, both born Terling, a son 'William Galley do' aged 13 born Gt Leighs, and a daughter Florence aged 4 born Terling. RG12/1367; Folio 153; Page 10 refers - I can send you this and any other census images if you wish. Ten years earlier in 1881 Frances A Gally is a 23 year old single servant to a solicitor in braintree. RG11/1810; Folio: 17; Page: 3 refers. Frances Amelia Galley married John Etherton in 1883. Young William is living with his grandparents, William and Caroline Galley, in Great Leighs. RG11/1765; Folio: 101; Page: 11 refers. So it seems clear that both William and Annie were illegitimate, and were brought up by stepfathers who married their mothers some years after they were born. It seems very likely that William John Galley's birth is registered as Dec 1877 Chelmsford 4a 269. Hope this helps. Dick Dianadiluca@aol.com wrote: > Hello Dick, > > Thank you for looking - yes I have some problems with this family I must > admit. They seem to change names for some reason, although it was quite > common in those days to do that I have found. > > The date of 18 June 1878 comes from the emigration record I found for a > Wm Galley born 1878 sailed on the 'Southwark' from Liverpool to Quebec > on 20 May 1907. I assumed this was 'my' William Galley as his wife > Annie Galley is recorded as travelling on the 'Empress of > Ireland' arriving at Quebec on 25 October 1907. She is down as > being married, aged 29, and with her children Nellie (actually this > could be Willie?) 8, Chas 6. Walley 3 and Lizzie aged 11 months. I know > that Lizzie existed and was named Lizzie Georgina (Georgina named after > Annie's sister Georgina Mundy) and Charles Samuel Galley existed. Not > sure about who Walley was, maybe he died. > > I have just discovered these following records in Canada where they > emigrated to: > > Military records for Charles Samuel Galley - Mother Annie Wright > (correct) and father Wm J Galley Living at Little Current, Ontario when > he enlisted as a sailor on 3 July 1916. Unmaried at the time. > > Military records for Alfred William Charles Galley born 23 July 1897 (I > have William Galley on my tree) living at Little Current, Ontario. > Father: William John Galley of Romford. Signed up 24/12/1915 - > unmarried. I presume this must be the same person as William Galley as > on the 1901 census in Romford? > > I found a marriage for Charles Samuel Galley to Florence Leonard on 1 > June 1923 in York, Canada, (mother Annie Wright and father Wm J Galley). > > No marriage found for William Galley (or Alfred William) > > Marriage found for Lizzie Georgina Galley to Ernest Hunwicks of Romford > on 26 Apr 1923 in York, Canada. Father Wm John Galley and Mother Annie > Wright. Witness was William Galley of 329 Lippincott St and Florence > Gladys Hunwicks of 329 Lippincott Street, Toronto. > > Regarding the marriage for William John Galley to Annie Wright - they > married on 24 Oct 1896 at St Andrew's Church in Romford, witnesses were > Francis Eales (I don't know anything about this man) and Georgina > Beatrice Mundy who was Annie's sister. The Wright comes into force > because these 2 girls were adopted by Charles Wright when he married > their mother Lizzie Mundy. Both stepfathers were labourers. William > and Annie address was 90 Marks Road. I have William John as a carman in > 1896 but on the emigration records he is down as a light ship worker on > lakes. In the 1901 census they lived at 207 Marks Road, Romford which > is where my family did all live so that would be right. Charles Wright > (the stepfather of Annie) was a drover. I took the marriage details off > a computer at the ERO so I wonder if Everington might be Etherington? > Just a thought. > > The records for Canada are really impressive, so detailed. Wish the > English ones were as good! I hit a brick wall with William John Galley > prior to 1896. Anything you can find would be a bonus for me. > > Many thanks, > > Diana > > /Re: There doesn't seem to be an entry in the GRO indexes for Jun 1878 or > Sept 1878 for your William John Galley - so what evidence do you have > for his birth in Romford on 18 June 1878? There are a few births on > FreeBMD for Galley in Romford, one of which is John William S, in Dec > 1875, which seems more likely for someone marrying in 1896 - even though > his 1901 census entry does show him as aged 23. > I can't find your William, or John William S, in any pre 1901 census - > althought there is a Robert Galley and wife Mary Ann in Barking in 1891 > who have five children named Galley and a four year old named William > Mills born East Ham who is described as 'son'. RG12/1372,Folio 109, > Page 11 refers. Ancestry has indexed this child as Galley, but that's > clearly wrong - especially since they have a son of their own aged seven > named William, born Barking. > Who are the witnesses at William's marriage? What is John Everington's > occupation? What were the addresses of the bride and groom? > / > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1709 - Release Date: 10/5/2008 9:20 AM >

All, I am following this line of enquiry with great interest. I spent most of my formative years in Marks Road, Romford, as did my father, grandfather etc. They moved about the road during this period, but were in Marks Road for the best part of seventy years, including the 1901 census. I also suffered from similar problems in tracking down an actual birth place, as the records in census are not always commensurate with the actual fact - you can see all of the tree at http://essex1841.com/Legacy/index.htm - if interested. This is not a question, as I lost interest in adding additional info some years back; but it is still incredibly interesting to try and add even an iota of information. I have to applaud Dick for all the research that he has achieved in a very short time period, whether correct or not. It doesn't matter, it is a total dissemination of a bunch of facts that can be proved, then deciding which are actually relevant. Anyway, it was nice to see another Marks Road resident from 1901. The 1919 directory for Marks Road & the rest of Romford is still accessible at [quick check where it is now] - See [scroll down this page] - http://romford-hornchurch.co.uk/Romford/HistoryofRomford.shtml Best Kevan -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dick Mathews Sent: 07 October 2008 22:28 To: Dianadiluca@aol.com Cc: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ess] William John Galley Hello Diana This is certainly an interesting puzzle! FreeBMD doesn't have a Romford birth for a Walter (Walley) Galley in about 1904 - but does have one for the death of a Walter George Galley aged 3 in 1893. From the 1891 census he is the son of Frederick and Thirza - possibly a relative. And Lizzie Georgina Galley is registered in 1903 - so perhaps the two younger children are transposed on the shipping list (and Walter isn't yet on FreeBMD). Trying to separate fact from conjecture, it seems to me that you can be quite certain that a woman named Annie Galley emigrated to Canada in 1907, taking four children with her, and three of those children are listed in the civil registration indexes as being born in Romford. And it seems certain that the family appear in the 1901 census in Romford - where the father is listed as William (not William J) born about 1878 in Romford. I had my suspicions that the William you found outward bound in May 1907 might not be connected, but I've found a free indexed online transcript of the 1911 census for Canada <http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/> which shows William and Annie with their children in Little Current, Ontario - and "Walley" is actually a girl identified as 'Darly' born Jan 1906 (but the only entry for the March quarter of 1906 in Romford is a girl named Kathleen Ada!) There is also a baby named Samuel. As the main evidence for William being born in Romford is the 1901 census entry, and as you say that his marriage certificate lists a stepfather, it may well be that William didn't actually know where he was born - although it might well be in or perhaps near Romford. But from the military records for two of his sons it does look aa if he was actually named William John. I spent a few minutes looking out for the two girls adopted by Charles Wright. You may of course already know this, but Annie and her mother Lizzie are both listed in the 1881 census as inmates in the Romford Workhouse, where Lizzie is shown as single, and FreeBMD has entries for the births of both Annie and Georgina Mundy, together with a marriage for Lizzie Mundy and Charles Wright, so it seems clear both girls were illegitimate. I then ran a search in 1891 for Georgina Wright in Essex - and Ancestry has 'Georgina Wrights' living with her parents Charles (a drover) and Lizzie at 48 Marks Rd. Also with them is Lizzie's mother Betsy Mundy, widow, 50, needlewoman, born Romford. And at no. 51 are John Etherton and his wife Frances Amelia, both born Terling, a son 'William Galley do' aged 13 born Gt Leighs, and a daughter Florence aged 4 born Terling. RG12/1367; Folio 153; Page 10 refers - I can send you this and any other census images if you wish. Ten years earlier in 1881 Frances A Gally is a 23 year old single servant to a solicitor in braintree. RG11/1810; Folio: 17; Page: 3 refers. Frances Amelia Galley married John Etherton in 1883. Young William is living with his grandparents, William and Caroline Galley, in Great Leighs. RG11/1765; Folio: 101; Page: 11 refers. So it seems clear that both William and Annie were illegitimate, and were brought up by stepfathers who married their mothers some years after they were born. It seems very likely that William John Galley's birth is registered as Dec 1877 Chelmsford 4a 269. Hope this helps. Dick Dianadiluca@aol.com wrote: > Hello Dick, > > Thank you for looking - yes I have some problems with this family I must > admit. They seem to change names for some reason, although it was quite > common in those days to do that I have found. > > The date of 18 June 1878 comes from the emigration record I found for a > Wm Galley born 1878 sailed on the 'Southwark' from Liverpool to Quebec > on 20 May 1907. I assumed this was 'my' William Galley as his wife > Annie Galley is recorded as travelling on the 'Empress of > Ireland' arriving at Quebec on 25 October 1907. She is down as > being married, aged 29, and with her children Nellie (actually this > could be Willie?) 8, Chas 6. Walley 3 and Lizzie aged 11 months. I know > that Lizzie existed and was named Lizzie Georgina (Georgina named after > Annie's sister Georgina Mundy) and Charles Samuel Galley existed. Not > sure about who Walley was, maybe he died. > > I have just discovered these following records in Canada where they > emigrated to: > > Military records for Charles Samuel Galley - Mother Annie Wright > (correct) and father Wm J Galley Living at Little Current, Ontario when > he enlisted as a sailor on 3 July 1916. Unmaried at the time. > > Military records for Alfred William Charles Galley born 23 July 1897 (I > have William Galley on my tree) living at Little Current, Ontario. > Father: William John Galley of Romford. Signed up 24/12/1915 - > unmarried. I presume this must be the same person as William Galley as > on the 1901 census in Romford? > > I found a marriage for Charles Samuel Galley to Florence Leonard on 1 > June 1923 in York, Canada, (mother Annie Wright and father Wm J Galley). > > No marriage found for William Galley (or Alfred William) > > Marriage found for Lizzie Georgina Galley to Ernest Hunwicks of Romford > on 26 Apr 1923 in York, Canada. Father Wm John Galley and Mother Annie > Wright. Witness was William Galley of 329 Lippincott St and Florence > Gladys Hunwicks of 329 Lippincott Street, Toronto. > > Regarding the marriage for William John Galley to Annie Wright - they > married on 24 Oct 1896 at St Andrew's Church in Romford, witnesses were > Francis Eales (I don't know anything about this man) and Georgina > Beatrice Mundy who was Annie's sister. The Wright comes into force > because these 2 girls were adopted by Charles Wright when he married > their mother Lizzie Mundy. Both stepfathers were labourers. William > and Annie address was 90 Marks Road. I have William John as a carman in > 1896 but on the emigration records he is down as a light ship worker on > lakes. In the 1901 census they lived at 207 Marks Road, Romford which > is where my family did all live so that would be right. Charles Wright > (the stepfather of Annie) was a drover. I took the marriage details off > a computer at the ERO so I wonder if Everington might be Etherington? > Just a thought. > > The records for Canada are really impressive, so detailed. Wish the > English ones were as good! I hit a brick wall with William John Galley > prior to 1896. Anything you can find would be a bonus for me. > > Many thanks, > > Diana > > /Re: There doesn't seem to be an entry in the GRO indexes for Jun 1878 or > Sept 1878 for your William John Galley - so what evidence do you have > for his birth in Romford on 18 June 1878? There are a few births on > FreeBMD for Galley in Romford, one of which is John William S, in Dec > 1875, which seems more likely for someone marrying in 1896 - even though > his 1901 census entry does show him as aged 23. > I can't find your William, or John William S, in any pre 1901 census - > althought there is a Robert Galley and wife Mary Ann in Barking in 1891 > who have five children named Galley and a four year old named William > Mills born East Ham who is described as 'son'. RG12/1372,Folio 109, > Page 11 refers. Ancestry has indexed this child as Galley, but that's > clearly wrong - especially since they have a son of their own aged seven > named William, born Barking. > Who are the witnesses at William's marriage? What is John Everington's > occupation? What were the addresses of the bride and groom? > / > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1709 - Release Date: 10/5/2008 9:20 AM > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message