Sorry to contradict, but under UK, USA and most Commonwealth law, it is his correct surname as it was the surname of his mother at the time of his birth. Same as one of my relatives is Taylor, although his "father" was away at war for over a year before he was born. Your name is what it is. Who your ancestors are may well be other than you think. And, re DNA testing in the UK, I for one will not be having it done as the life insurance companies are talking about asking "have you ever had a DNA test done" and then wanting the results to see if you have any chance of inherited risk factors, to allow them to increase your premiums. When they start doing that I want to be able to say no. Happy new year Steve On 01/01/2013 05:27, Julie Webb wrote: > My husband's surname is the > maiden name of his paternal grandmother 'Webb' even though we know that this > is not his correct surname, both he, his father and his children all bear > this name including me as his wife. >

Not a total waste Philip. FTDNA keep your sample for 25 years and there are many more people testing every day. A match may come. I think you will find things have moved on considerably since you tested - you must have almost been one of the pioneers. If you are looking for genealogical matches, perhaps the Family Finder test would have been better for you. The Y only tracks the one paternal line. Regards Wendy

I read Liz Jones email with interest. I too have been involved using DNA to support my genealogical research for almost a year now. Using it, I had a wonderful breakthrough on a brick wall that had blocked 3 of us for over 20 years with an illegitimate birth in 1801. I found a male descendant of this line and tested his YDNA (a simple cheek swab is all that is needed). To our joy - he matched almost exactly with another person in the familytreedna database. We corresponded and discovered this persons ancestor had worked and lived in the same area, at the same time as my ancestor was born and also had other illegitimate children - some of whom were named in his will. At the time in question he was between wives, so one can imagine what may have happened. Now I can take that line back further with confidence, although with a different name. The joy of DNA is that it does not lie - which is more than I can say for many of our ancestors. I have often wondered how many of our female ancestors through force or a weak moment became pregnant and subsequently married a person who was not actually the father to cover it up. I administer the Pell and Brooker Projects at familytreedna.com. Regards Wendy

Hello Cornelia You say that "you aren't acknowledging the autosomal, which covers all ancestors, not just the direct line paternal and maternal lines. " I have not ignored atDNA as you suggest, rather I have acknowledged that for the study of ancestral DNA migratory routes, all DNA is important. What I am saying is that fundamentally DNA gives evidence of these migratory routes and of the likely origin groups, or ups, in any one particular place or region from either the most likely place where the study chromosome or autosome diverged from a parent group. Geneticists and others studying these migrations are still not entirely in agreement about the interpretation of the spread and densities of any one group and this mainly because of the difficulty in precisely dating the arrival points; indeed they have difficulty telling precisely if there was only one arrival event or many spread over a period of time. This is as true in the British Isles as it is elsewhere but it ignores the underlying question that I posed in my posting. How does the study of DNA add to my family history, which I acknowledge has a great importance in the study of migratory groups and by inference the study of the make-up of later 'mixed' populations, but I am extremely doubtful over its relevance to family history which is based upon surnames - the first is a study of the natural over a very long period and the second a study of the very recent (comparatively) social construct. You say that "the basic purpose of dna; " is to "to verify the paperwork" and/or to "to fill in where paperwork fails due to war, natural disaster, careless record keeping, careless storage, and neglect." I ask how? You say "to discover ones complete ancestry, not just the visable ancestry but deep ancestry as well." I interpret that to mean the migratory groups from which we are descended. I agree it will do that, but how does that provide any useful data that informs me about anything to do with my modern family surname and those who share it? You add that "because some people are honestly curious." I see nothing wrong with curiosity, but I see more and more threads developing across family history boards telling us of the importance of these DNA studies, but they never explain why they are important, except in the terms that you have written in your reply. The issue for me is that this is becoming a new branch of pseudo-science where an awful lot of 'facts' are being placed into the public arena with wholesome dollops of scientific jargon which are actually unsupported by any valid arguments. Let me assure you that my curiosity is sparked but I want a valid and clear rationale for all this enthusiasm. Personally I trained in both the social and the physical sciences and would be appalled if a student of mine were to make some of the assertions that I have been reading in some of the postings made on this subject without valid supporting evidence or research underpinning the claims. You further added "and last but not least, because it's the only way for some people to learn who their contemporary relatives are (especially adoptees)." I find this astonishing; how can one find families of adoptees through these projects, indeed I would have imagined that there would have been all sorts of legal ramifications concerning that and other privacy issues. This surely is a notion that undermines the validity of these projects rather than supports it. You claim "it does work, you can learn these things and much more from it, but a negative mind gets negative returns. you reap what you sew." I have been presented with no evidence to support or to contradict your claim that it works, but, and if this is negativity then so be it, I will not let pass the ideas that you and many others are putting forward as being scientific without challenging them. I learned a long time ago that to question ideas is to enable their further dissemination rather than to hinder them, except where they are inherently flawed. Finally you say that "the paper work is important, even invaluable" - as a family historian I would have expected this to be at the top of the tree in terms of importance, especially when you follow the precept of starting from where you know and working backwards. You continued " but sometimes it just doesn't exist. some never did, some has been destroyed". That is true, although you have to be pretty unlucky to be living in a modern state to find that all sources of evidence has been destroyed. But then you say that "when that happens, turning your back on DNA is like turning your back on potatoes when there's a famine. " Which brings us back to the original question. So, I shall rephrase it. How does a study of DNA in any form replace the documentary evidence in the study of your family history - really I'd like to know. I'd like to hear about the process and about the data that these studies produce that will add anything to my understanding of my family history. John

I have empathy with Philip's comment, "On the other hand I had my DNA tested almost 5 years ago and cannot see the point of it", as it has never been explained to me why tracing DNA will be of real value to family historians. I can see why tracing DNA in its male or female lines is a seriously important tool in tracing the origins of migratory groups of peoples and bringing some understanding to how areas were populated in prehistory and perhaps where there has been more modern population movements, but to link it to family history seems to me to be a less useful application of DNA analysis. Family history is by the nature of the study of history a study of documented record. Like history, more generally, family history records may be informed by other disciplines including medical records to corroborate or explain specific gaps in knowledge left by more conventional historical record - in the same way as archaeology informs the history of place or of culture. Given the experience in the UK of the development of surnames then I start to lose the plot a bit about DNA analysis; the historical record for the greatest part of the population is scant or even non-existent before the reign of Henry VIII, about the same time that the modern surname was fully settling down. Earlier than this then even surnames themselves are unreliable as an intergenerational link. However, unless we are going to disinter numerous possibly related corpses then how is the DNA connection going to be proved within a family going back in time? I fully understand the possibility of a link where a living person might provide DNA samples to provide evidence of a link to long dead people where the linkage is already assumed and it is important to prove the identity of the dead - such as in the case where Prince Philip, and others. Provided DNA samples to help in the identification of the probable Romanov grave inhabitants, but otherwise I see little value other than a very simple link with other living people. I was invited to take part in a DNA project by an American gentleman with a similar, but not identical, surname to me. I declined for all the reasons that I have given; his response, and that of his associates in the project, were quite convinced that a large number of people with our shared surname or derivatives would be linked - for the reason that we all came from a similar part of the world. I tried explaining that in surname lists the name Orchard ranks at about 1400 in the most common surnames in the English speaking world, which is actually quite high. I pointed out that in the old Kingdom of Wessex, it was significantly higher and that as a surname that almost certainly derives its cultural roots from the Anglo-Saxon naming traditions and that Wessex was, if nothing else, an Anglo-Saxon hot-spot, this was not altogether surprising - who in England would not know that the heart of the cider growing throughout the ages has been in the areas bounding upon Somersetshire? Having a relatively common work-related surname which has high densities across several counties of the old kingdom of Wessex, is a fairly good indicator that the DNA linkages will be weak rather than strong. Given that surnames were historically late in becoming fixed to ordinary families it is nonsensical to believe that the people with a particular surname would be recently related to others since to have a close familial link in such circumstances would indicate that many, if not all, fruit gardeners of the Tudor period were related to each other but never to any other tradesman from which trade they might equally validly have taken their family name. Perhaps someone might explain to us the real value of this quest for DNA from the perspective of family historians, Regards John Orchard

On the other hand I had my DNA tested almost 5 years ago and cannot see the point of it. I have only matched one other person with the same surname since. As we are unlikely to share a common ancestor since 1750 and as he is a little precious with his family research then it seems we both wasted our money getting tested. Philip Maddocks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Reeve" <wendy.reeve@xtra.co.nz> To: <Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:11 PM Subject: [Ess] DNA >I read Liz Jones email with interest. I too have been involved using DNA to > support my genealogical research for almost a year now. Using it, I had a > wonderful breakthrough on a brick wall that had blocked 3 of us for over > 20 > years with an illegitimate birth in 1801. I found a male descendant of > this > line and tested his YDNA (a simple cheek swab is all that is needed). To > our joy - he matched almost exactly with another person in the > familytreedna > database. We corresponded and discovered this persons ancestor had worked > and lived in the same area, at the same time as my ancestor was born and > also had other illegitimate children - some of whom were named in his > will. > At the time in question he was between wives, so one can imagine what may > have happened. Now I can take that line back further with confidence, > although with a different name. > >

Thank you for your replies. Henry's parents were John and Esther both seem to be born in Hornchurch. I have yet to find their marriage and births. I cannot find them on the 1841 census but have found them in 1851. I have found Henry's death which states he was 33 so hence his birth about 1838. I have not found a birth for him.I have not found a marriage for him. Elizabeth Jevans married a Joseph Elmore after Henry died and her surname was put as Perry so this is why I thought Henry and Elizabeth must have married. James does not seem to appear in my Tree so it obviously is just a coincidence! More research required. Julie rom: essex-uk-request@rootsweb.com Subject: ESSEX-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 253 To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 01:00:16 -0700 --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: nannyjuliejohnson@hotmail.com To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:22:12 +0000 Subject: [Ess] PERRY - JEVANS Hi Everyone I'm new to this list and was wondering if anyone can help me with a question? I'm research the PERRY family who seem to come from the Ilford area. In particular at the moment I am trying to find a marriage for a Henry Perry to Elizabeth Jevans. The only one I can find is for a James Perry to Elizabeth Jevans, too much of a coincidence I feel! I have found Henry Perry and Elizabeth in the 1861 1871 census then Henry dies and Elizabeth re-marry. Does anyone have any ideas as to whether this is likely to be the right marriage? I have not found a definite birth for Henry Perry (born around 1838-1840 Ilford). I have found him on the 1851 census with his family. Any help would be appreciated and if you are researching any of the Perry family or relations please get in touch. Thank you. Julie --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: srmenglish1@gmail.com CC: essex-uk@rootsweb.com To: nannyjuliejohnson@hotmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 07:28:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [Ess] PERRY - JEVANS I have the pr's for St Mary's Great Ilford Essex and there is a Henry William Perry b. Mar 5 1837 & bpt Apr 30 to Henry Christopher & Marriann Perry, laborer of Barkingside, Essex. Is there is connection there? I know this was not your query but might be a step closer. I don't know where you are but Ilford & Barkingside towns border each other. On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Julie Johnson < nannyjuliejohnson@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hi Everyone > I'm new to this list and was wondering if anyone can help me with a > question? > I'm research the PERRY family who seem to come from the Ilford area. In > particular at the moment I am trying to find a marriage for a Henry Perry > to Elizabeth Jevans. The only one I can find is for a James Perry to > Elizabeth Jevans, too much of a coincidence I feel! I have found Henry > Perry and Elizabeth in the 1861 1871 census then Henry dies and Elizabeth > re-marry. Does anyone have any ideas as to whether this is likely to be > the right marriage? I have not found a definite birth for Henry Perry > (born around 1838-1840 Ilford). I have found him on the 1851 census with > his family. > Any help would be appreciated and if you are researching any of the Perry > family or relations please get in touch. > Thank you. > Julie > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: eldeworth@googlemail.com CC: essex-uk@rootsweb.com To: lizmax@optusnet.com.au Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:35:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [Ess] Birth Certificate Try these sites: http://www.certificate-exchange.co.uk/ http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/167-Unwanted-Certificates http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/map.php?forum=133&news I see you have already added a postem to the entry at www.freebmd.org.uk/ - well done. Or you could just post the details to this list, and they will come up in future archive and Goggle searches. Regards, Lawrence On 29/12/2012 00:43, liz and john wrote: > Hi List, > > I recently purchased a birth certificate for Ernest White. > Unfortunately he is not my Ernest and so I was wondering if any one on the list would like it. > He was born 1881 in Ardleigh > Liz in Australia > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

you aren't acknowledging the autosomal, which covers all ancestors, not just the direct line paternal and maternal lines. the basic purpose of dna; to verify the paperwork to fill in where paperwork fails due to war, natural disaster, careless record keeping, careless storage, and neglect. to discover ones complete ancestry, not just the visable ancestry but deep ancestry as well. because some people are honestly curious and last but not least, because it's the only way for some people to learn who their contemporary relatives are (especially adoptees) it does work, you can learn these things and much more from it, but a negative mind gets negative returns. you reap what you sew. the paper work is important, even invaluable, but sometimes it just doesn't exist. some never did, some has been destroyed. when that happens, turning your back on DNA is like turning your back on potatoes when there's a famine. Cornelia On 31.12.2012 15:20, John Orchard wrote: > I have empathy with Philip's comment, "On the other hand I had my DNA tested > almost 5 years ago and cannot see the point of it", as it has never been > explained to me why tracing DNA will be of real value to family historians. > I can see why tracing DNA in its male or female lines is a seriously > important tool in tracing the origins of migratory groups of peoples and > bringing some understanding to how areas were populated in prehistory and > perhaps where there has been more modern population movements, but to link > it to family history seems to me to be a less useful application of DNA > analysis. > > Family history is by the nature of the study of history a study of > documented record. Like history, more generally, family history records may > be informed by other disciplines including medical records to corroborate or > explain specific gaps in knowledge left by more conventional historical > record - in the same way as archaeology informs the history of place or of > culture. Given the experience in the UK of the development of surnames then > I start to lose the plot a bit about DNA analysis; the historical record for > the greatest part of the population is scant or even non-existent before the > reign of Henry VIII, about the same time that the modern surname was fully > settling down. Earlier than this then even surnames themselves are > unreliable as an intergenerational link. However, unless we are going to > disinter numerous possibly related corpses then how is the DNA connection > going to be proved within a family going back in time? I fully understand > the possibility of a link where a living person might provide DNA samples to > provide evidence of a link to long dead people where the linkage is already > assumed and it is important to prove the identity of the dead - such as in > the case where Prince Philip, and others. Provided DNA samples to help in > the identification of the probable Romanov grave inhabitants, but otherwise > I see little value other than a very simple link with other living people. > > I was invited to take part in a DNA project by an American gentleman with a > similar, but not identical, surname to me. I declined for all the reasons > that I have given; his response, and that of his associates in the project, > were quite convinced that a large number of people with our shared surname > or derivatives would be linked - for the reason that we all came from a > similar part of the world. I tried explaining that in surname lists the name > Orchard ranks at about 1400 in the most common surnames in the English > speaking world, which is actually quite high. I pointed out that in the old > Kingdom of Wessex, it was significantly higher and that as a surname that > almost certainly derives its cultural roots from the Anglo-Saxon naming > traditions and that Wessex was, if nothing else, an Anglo-Saxon hot-spot, > this was not altogether surprising - who in England would not know that the > heart of the cider growing throughout the ages has been in the areas > bounding upon Somersetshire? Having a relatively common work-related > surname which has high densities across several counties of the old kingdom > of Wessex, is a fairly good indicator that the DNA linkages will be weak > rather than strong. Given that surnames were historically late in becoming > fixed to ordinary families it is nonsensical to believe that the people with > a particular surname would be recently related to others since to have a > close familial link in such circumstances would indicate that many, if not > all, fruit gardeners of the Tudor period were related to each other but > never to any other tradesman from which trade they might equally validly > have taken their family name. > > Perhaps someone might explain to us the real value of this quest for DNA > from the perspective of family historians, > > Regards > > John Orchard > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I also agree that the DNA data can be useful in conjunction with more traditional genealogical data. I run a project for AYLETT and would encourage anyone that would like to join this to gte in touch with me on r.s.aylett@hw.ac.uk. Ruth -- On 31 Dec 2012, at 14:56, Liz Jones <esjones@btopenworld.com> wrote: > Hi Roger > > Thank you for your testimony that DNA can be a useful tool! It's especially handy when trying to break down brick walls or connect two branches of a family. Good luck with the Lamson Project! > > Kind regards > Liz > > > ________________________________ > From: Roger Lamson <rlamson@conknet.com> > To: Liz Jones <esjones@btopenworld.com> > Sent: Monday, 31 December 2012, 14:50 > Subject: Re: [Ess] Denman DNA Project > > Hi Liz: > > Though I have no known connection to your family, I encourage other Denmans to join your DNA project. I have been involved with a Lamson Family DNA project at FTDNA since 2006 and find it very valuable. > > The primary reason the I am a member of Essex-UK is that our project seeks Lamsons (Lampson, Lambson, Lambton) for the DNA project. If any readers have interest, please, contact me, rlamson@mcttelecom.com > > Thank you and good luck, > > Roger Lamson > Sutton Mills, New Hampshire, USA > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Jones" <esjones@btopenworld.com> > To: <Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:51 AM > Subject: [Ess] Denman DNA Project > > >> Hi >> >> My name is Liz Jones and I have >> started a Denman DNA Project at Family Tree DNA. I have been researching the >> history of the Denman surname since 1999. Through my research I have >> become very interested in the history of the Denman name and its origins, as >> well as tracing my own Denman line. I know from the censuses that Essex has one >> of the earliest mentions of the Denman surname. >> >> >> A Surname Project traces members of a >> family that share a common surname. The project is just getting started, and we >> expect to have many exciting discoveries. Participating is an opportunity to >> uncover information not provided in the paper records, which will help with >> your family history research. We will also discover which family trees are >> related. As the project progresses, the results for the various family trees >> will provide information about the evolution of the surname. Are all people >> with the surname Denman related? Where did the name originate? I can’t promise >> you the answers to these questions but by contributing to the study we will all >> learn more about the name. >> >> Early indications are that there are at >> least two lines of origin of the Denman surname. >> >> The Y DNA test tells you about your >> direct male line, which would be your father, his father, and back in time. You >> must be male to take this simple cheek swab test, and you should bear the >> Denman surname, although if you believe there is a Denman or variant in your >> direct male line, despite having a different surname, you are also welcome to >> participate. If you are female, you will need to find a direct line male Denman >> in your family tree to take the test and represent your tree, such as your father, >> brother, uncle or cousin. >> >> Tests ordered through this project are >> charged at the special group rate which provides a substantial saving on the >> standard FTDNA price. By the way, I don’t work for Family Tree DNA, nor do I benefit >> financially – I’ve just volunteered to start and administer the Denman project >> in the hope that it will be of help to Denman researchers. >> >> Further information is available here: https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Denman, or if you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact >> me using the same link. >> >> Kind regards >> Liz Jones >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Ruth Aylett Professor of Computer Science Mathematics and Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University Edinburgh EH14 4AS, UK Tel: 44-131-451-4189 Fax: 44-131-451-3327 http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~ruth/ "Life is beautiful"

A very happy new year to you all. Diane Sent from my iPad

Hi Roger   Thank you for your testimony that DNA can be a useful tool! It's especially handy when trying to break down brick walls or connect two branches of a family. Good luck with the Lamson Project!   Kind regards Liz ________________________________ From: Roger Lamson <rlamson@conknet.com> To: Liz Jones <esjones@btopenworld.com> Sent: Monday, 31 December 2012, 14:50 Subject: Re: [Ess] Denman DNA Project Hi Liz: Though I have no known connection to your family, I encourage other Denmans to join your DNA project.  I have been involved with a Lamson Family DNA project at FTDNA since 2006 and find it very valuable. The primary reason the I am a member of  Essex-UK is that our project seeks Lamsons (Lampson, Lambson, Lambton) for the DNA project.  If any readers have interest, please, contact me, rlamson@mcttelecom.com Thank you and good luck, Roger Lamson Sutton Mills, New Hampshire, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Jones" <esjones@btopenworld.com> To: <Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:51 AM Subject: [Ess] Denman DNA Project > Hi > > My name is Liz Jones and I have > started a Denman DNA Project at Family Tree DNA. I have been researching the > history of the Denman surname since 1999. Through my research I have > become very interested in the history of the Denman name and its origins, as > well as tracing my own Denman line. I know from the censuses that Essex has one > of the earliest mentions of the Denman surname. > > > A Surname Project traces members of a > family that share a common surname. The project is just getting started, and we > expect to have many exciting discoveries. Participating is an opportunity to > uncover information not provided in the paper records, which will help with > your family history research. We will also discover which family trees are > related. As the project progresses, the results for the various family trees > will provide information about the evolution of the surname. Are all people > with the surname Denman related? Where did the name originate? I can’t promise > you the answers to these questions but by contributing to the study we will all > learn more about the name. > > Early indications are that there are at > least two lines of origin of the Denman surname. > > The Y DNA test tells you about your > direct male line, which would be your father, his father, and back in time. You > must be male to take this simple cheek swab test, and you should bear the > Denman surname, although if you believe there is a Denman or variant in your > direct male line, despite having a different surname, you are also welcome to > participate. If you are female, you will need to find a direct line male Denman > in your family tree to take the test and represent your tree, such as your father, > brother, uncle or cousin. > > Tests ordered through this project are > charged at the special group rate which provides a substantial saving on the > standard FTDNA price. By the way, I don’t work for Family Tree DNA, nor do I benefit > financially – I’ve just volunteered to start and administer the Denman project > in the hope that it will be of help to Denman researchers. > > Further information is available here: https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Denman, or if you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact > me using the same link. > > Kind regards > Liz Jones > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I concur with Wendy. i was one of the near pioneers, i've been testing for 6 years, and it was tough at first, with little to go on, just a couple thousand testing and no way to compare between different companies, but now there's many, many more testees, better tests, and better systems all around. there's also a free website where some of the different companies tests can be sent in and compared to others (ie, a testee at FTdna and a testee at 23andme.com can now compare data to one another). i've tested my MTdna FGS at FTdna, and though my haplotype is fairly rare (H10e2) I have had one perfect match (who denies it!) and several close matches. I've had my husband's Ydna tested to 65 markers with no-one closer than 7 markers apart to him, though he has a very common (top 10 U.S.) surname. we'd like to test further but have been hit with major medical bills so will have to wait. before those bills we also tested with 23andme, but i haven't found a way to work out how anyone's related, and the close cousins never accept my invitations. we also tested with AncestryDNA, and I've found 5 matches, though all on well researched lines, ones we're very familiar with, not any of the brick walls we'd like to bust. but every time another group of cousins comes in, there's potential to find that missing piece. for those of us who are American, our biggest issues are the lack of European and British testees and the fact that many testees won't accept our invitations to share genomes when it can't possibly hurt anyone, or even share family trees. I have many British and German cousins who've tested and never accepted my invitation. i don't know whether they tested and checked in once and never again, or have no interest in American cousins, but i will tell you we're very disappointed. how can we trace our ancestry out of America without some of you responding? records here are sporadic, and in some areas, non-extant, so we need a little help from our British and European cousins to get back over the pond. please do respond and assist, if you've tested. DNA testing has really picked up over the past couple years and it has great potential now for making the discoveries that we are hoping for. each company has very good, very different tools, and i can't recommend one over the other for that reason. Ancestry has trees, and focuses heavily on genealogy. 23andme is focused on health but also has an autosomal section with a genealogy focus. FTdna has it's own autosomal test with a genealogy focus, as well as specific individual tests for the direct paternal line and maternal line. each of these give different types of information, and all can help discovering your ancestry one way or another. there's much to be learned from all of the tests. I learned that i am not, as i thought, part Melungeon, but have a bit of Eastern European and Ashkenazi instead. my sister has a perplexing touch of E. Asian and S. European as well. my husband has, to our great surprise because we have yet to find anything on paper regarding it, some Balkan, some Iberian and some Sardinian, though he's mostly British and German, with some Swedish. I know there is more to learn, and by this time next year we may have broken down some brick walls. there is so much going on in dna testing now, the potential is extremely good. for those who might find it frightening, for autosomal (all ancestors) testing, you spit into a test tube or brush your inner cheek (inside your mouth) with a brush or swab gently (depending on the company and the tools they use), seal it in the tube, and return it in a self addressed envelope, it takes 4 to 8 weeks to process, you get a list of cousins to contact, no name unless they chose to be public. when an invitation is accepted, you and your cousin compare genes in a section of the site reserved for it. very little information is given, and none of it is personal beyond a name. that's it, your name. at 23and me, there's a name, there's a number which refers to the chromosome you match on, a pair of numbers that tells you what section of that chromosome the match is in, and a number that tells you how much dna is shared, and that is all. no private data, no personal data, it's completely safe. and the other companies have comprable systems. stop being afraid, there isn't anything to be afraid of. and do share, most people are very conciderate. best, Cornelia On 31.12.2012 12:14, Wendy Reeve wrote: > Not a total waste Philip. FTDNA keep your sample for 25 years and there are > many more people testing every day. A match may come. I think you will find > things have moved on considerably since you tested - you must have almost > been one of the pioneers. If you are looking for genealogical matches, > perhaps the Family Finder test would have been better for you. The Y only > tracks the one paternal line. > Regards > Wendy > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I find it fortuitous that the topic of DNA analysis as used by genealogists has been raised in this forum. I am the administrator of the COBB surname project at Family Tree DNA, and work closely with the administrator of the much larger Ancestry project. So far, we have only had participants from the US, and have found around nine main family lines using the COBB name. We can trace six or so lines back to English immigrants, all arriving in the 17th century (see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cobb/). I believe that I can trace my own ancestor, one Joseph COBB, of Jamestown, Virginia, back to the parish of St Bartholomew the Great of West Smithfield, just outside of London (http://one-name.org/profiles/cobb.html) After emigrating, Joseph and his descendants grew tobacco in Virginia and later in North Carolina. There is a record on (http://www.londonroll.org) of another Joseph COBB, tobacconist of St Bartholomew the Less, apprenticing a son William as a cork manufacturer in 1799. This William can be traced through the UK Census of 1841 and 1851, living with a grandson Charles. Thanks to the help of a collateral family member who posted a family tree to Ancestry, I believe that the grandson of this Charles is alive and living in Marks Tey, Colchester. Thanks to 192.com I was able to find an address, and will try writing a letter to see if he has any interest in participating in our DNA project. I am so glad to DNA analysis appears to be gaining traction in the UK. If anyone on this list knows of a living COBB, it would be much appreciated if this were passed along! Best wishes for a happy, healthy, prosperous 2013. On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Liz Jones <esjones@btopenworld.com> wrote: > Hi > > My name is Liz Jones and I have > started a Denman DNA Project at Family Tree DNA. I have been researching > the > history of the Denman surname since 1999. Through my research I have > become very interested in the history of the Denman name and its origins, > as > well as tracing my own Denman line. I know from the censuses that Essex > has one > of the earliest mentions of the Denman surname. > > > A Surname Project traces members of a > family that share a common surname. The project is just getting started, > and we > expect to have many exciting discoveries. Participating is an opportunity > to > uncover information not provided in the paper records, which will help with > your family history research. We will also discover which family trees are > related. As the project progresses, the results for the various family > trees > will provide information about the evolution of the surname. Are all people > with the surname Denman related? Where did the name originate? I can’t > promise > you the answers to these questions but by contributing to the study we > will all > learn more about the name. > > Early indications are that there are at > least two lines of origin of the Denman surname. > > The Y DNA test tells you about your > direct male line, which would be your father, his father, and back in > time. You > must be male to take this simple cheek swab test, and you should bear the > Denman surname, although if you believe there is a Denman or variant in > your > direct male line, despite having a different surname, you are also welcome > to > participate. If you are female, you will need to find a direct line male > Denman > in your family tree to take the test and represent your tree, such as your > father, > brother, uncle or cousin. > > Tests ordered through this project are > charged at the special group rate which provides a substantial saving on > the > standard FTDNA price. By the way, I don’t work for Family Tree DNA, nor do > I benefit > financially – I’ve just volunteered to start and administer the Denman > project > in the hope that it will be of help to Denman researchers. > > Further information is available here: > https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Denman, or if you > have any questions please don't hesitate to contact > me using the same link. > > Kind regards > Liz Jones > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi   My name is Liz Jones and I have started a Denman DNA Project at Family Tree DNA. I have been researching the history of the Denman surname since 1999.  Through my research I have become very interested in the history of the Denman name and its origins, as well as tracing my own Denman line. I know from the censuses that Essex has one of the earliest mentions of the Denman surname. A Surname Project traces members of a family that share a common surname. The project is just getting started, and we expect to have many exciting discoveries. Participating is an opportunity to uncover information not provided in the paper records, which will help with your family history research. We will also discover which family trees are related. As the project progresses, the results for the various family trees will provide information about the evolution of the surname. Are all people with the surname Denman related? Where did the name originate? I can’t promise you the answers to these questions but by contributing to the study we will all learn more about the name.   Early indications are that there are at least two lines of origin of the Denman surname.   The Y DNA test tells you about your direct male line, which would be your father, his father, and back in time. You must be male to take this simple cheek swab test, and you should bear the Denman surname, although if you believe there is a Denman or variant in your direct male line, despite having a different surname, you are also welcome to participate. If you are female, you will need to find a direct line male Denman in your family tree to take the test and represent your tree, such as your father, brother, uncle or cousin.   Tests ordered through this project are charged at the special group rate which provides a substantial saving on the standard FTDNA price. By the way, I don’t work for Family Tree DNA, nor do I benefit financially – I’ve just volunteered to start and administer the Denman project in the hope that it will be of help to Denman researchers.   Further information is available here: https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Denman, or if you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me using the same link.  Kind regards Liz Jones

Try these sites: http://www.certificate-exchange.co.uk/ http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/167-Unwanted-Certificates http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/map.php?forum=133&news I see you have already added a postem to the entry at www.freebmd.org.uk/ - well done. Or you could just post the details to this list, and they will come up in future archive and Goggle searches. Regards, Lawrence On 29/12/2012 00:43, liz and john wrote: > Hi List, > > I recently purchased a birth certificate for Ernest White. > Unfortunately he is not my Ernest and so I was wondering if any one on the list would like it. > He was born 1881 in Ardleigh > Liz in Australia > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Everyone I'm new to this list and was wondering if anyone can help me with a question? I'm research the PERRY family who seem to come from the Ilford area. In particular at the moment I am trying to find a marriage for a Henry Perry to Elizabeth Jevans. The only one I can find is for a James Perry to Elizabeth Jevans, too much of a coincidence I feel! I have found Henry Perry and Elizabeth in the 1861 1871 census then Henry dies and Elizabeth re-marry. Does anyone have any ideas as to whether this is likely to be the right marriage? I have not found a definite birth for Henry Perry (born around 1838-1840 Ilford). I have found him on the 1851 census with his family. Any help would be appreciated and if you are researching any of the Perry family or relations please get in touch. Thank you. Julie

I have the pr's for St Mary's Great Ilford Essex and there is a Henry William Perry b. Mar 5 1837 & bpt Apr 30 to Henry Christopher & Marriann Perry, laborer of Barkingside, Essex. Is there is connection there? I know this was not your query but might be a step closer. I don't know where you are but Ilford & Barkingside towns border each other. On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Julie Johnson < nannyjuliejohnson@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hi Everyone > I'm new to this list and was wondering if anyone can help me with a > question? > I'm research the PERRY family who seem to come from the Ilford area. In > particular at the moment I am trying to find a marriage for a Henry Perry > to Elizabeth Jevans. The only one I can find is for a James Perry to > Elizabeth Jevans, too much of a coincidence I feel! I have found Henry > Perry and Elizabeth in the 1861 1871 census then Henry dies and Elizabeth > re-marry. Does anyone have any ideas as to whether this is likely to be > the right marriage? I have not found a definite birth for Henry Perry > (born around 1838-1840 Ilford). I have found him on the 1851 census with > his family. > Any help would be appreciated and if you are researching any of the Perry > family or relations please get in touch. > Thank you. > Julie > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi List, I recently purchased a birth certificate for Ernest White. Unfortunately he is not my Ernest and so I was wondering if any one on the list would like it. He was born 1881 in Ardleigh Liz in Australia

I think Santa's still checking it... On 28 Dec 2012 16:21, "Sharon Yost" <shada100@suddenlink.net> wrote: > > Haven't gotten any emails for some time. Am I still on the list? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

New Years Greetings from BC, Canada.  I suspect living relatives and friends are top priority right now, not long dead ancestors. I know as soon as our guests leave next week I'll be back searching. Love Sharon's reply! Marie ________________________________ From: La Greenall <eldeworth@googlemail.com> To: Sharon Yost <shada100@suddenlink.net> Cc: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 2:26:29 PM Subject: Re: [Ess] no emails I think Santa's still checking it... On 28 Dec 2012 16:21, "Sharon Yost" <shada100@suddenlink.net> wrote: > > Haven't gotten any emails for some time.  Am I still on the list? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message