Hi all. Just to say, briefly, that ChurchCrawler (http://www.churchcrawler.co.uk/) has identified this church. It is St. John of Jerusalem, South Hackney. http://www.sjoj.co.uk/gallery/album.php?s=inside-the-church Many listers (including me) thought that the church was very late 19th century due to its unfussiness; Steve thought otherwise, that it was earlier Victorian. He turns out to be correct - it was finished in 1848. Its plainness is because it was built before High Gothic had taken off, not after it had gone out of fashion. Best wishes, Lawrence

David Chambers wrote: I have someone who was baptised in All Saints Springfield on the 27 March 1818?and then at the First Meeting House in Baddow Lane on the 6 June 1819, why would this be. Before the government's registration system was created from 1837, evidence of births and/or baptisms (and also marriages and death or burials) was dependent on the events being recorded in the records of the Church of England and some other institutions. In 1812 a standard form was introduced to record the date of baptism, child’s Christian name, surname, parent’s Christian names, address, occupation of father and the name of the person conducting the ceremony. This followed the passing of an "Act for the better regulating and preserving Parish and other Registers of Birth, Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, in England" (Rose's Act). The purpose of the act gives some idea as to why someone would be baptised CofE, namely that "amending the Manner and Form of keeping and of preserving Registers of Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials of His Majesty's Subjects in the several Parishes and Places in England, will greatly facilitate the Proof of Pedigrees of Persons claiming to be entitled to Real or Personal Estates, and otherwise of great public Benefit and Advantage" from http://rwguide.rootsweb.ancestry.com/lesson17.htm - a useful precis of some of the issues and how some people managed them : Being a nonconformist was not just a religious matter. It also involved a lack of legal status for one's children, since they were not baptized in the established church. In 1743, a group representing Baptists, Independents and Presbyterians, set up a register for the births of their children at the Dissenters Library. This register was open to any parent who was willing to pay a fee to register their children's births. For the family historian the information given is unusually detailed. It includes name of parents, the exact place and date of birth and the name of the maternal grandfather. Probably due to the fees, the register was not a success though. In 1769 it contained only 309 entries. However, gradually the nonconformists ministers began to deposit their register books with this library, and private registrations increased. By 1837 nearly 50,000 births had been registered. These records are now housed in the Public Record Office and the names also appear in the Family History Library's International Genealogical Index (IGI). For the families of some of my forebears the male children were baptised CofE, female children recorded in Dr Williams (the Dissenters) Library. After 1837 they seemed to rely on civil registration. The First meeting House in Baddow Lane was Congregationalist I would conclude that the first baptism was for legal purposes and the second indicated that the family were members of the Congregationalist church. Regards Anne

Parents changing their allegiance All Saints being CoE (I think) First Meeting House being Congregational Though not in Essex, I have a number of instances where people were baptised into one branch of the churches and then later into another. And one family where all children are "done" both RC and CoE within a week of each other. Mother is from an RC family father probably CoE. Cheers Steve On 09/03/2013 15:19, DAVID CHAMBERS wrote: > First Meeting House

 Hi all, I have someone who was baptised in All Saints Springfield on the 27 March 1818 and then at the First Meeting House in Baddow Lane on the 6 June 1819, why would this be. Regards David

David Perhaps the family of the person (baby?) baptised in All Saints, had joined the congregation at the First Meeting House, who might have believed that "true" baptism required total immersion rather than the "sprinkling" already performed in the Anglican Church Peter Moll Tortola, Virgin Islands (Br) Researching the families of 5 MOLL brothers who migrated from Berlin to Essex over the Border in the late 1900s to join the burgeoning cable telegraph industry and later moved out to S.E. Essex On 9 March 2013 11:19, DAVID CHAMBERS <david.chambers24@btinternet.com>wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I have someone who was baptised in All Saints Springfield on the 27 March >> 1818 and then at the First Meeting House in Baddow Lane on the 6 June 1819, >> why would this be. >> Regards >> David

oooops!  Thank you Roger. Helen  ________________________________ From: Roger Partridge <rogerpartridge1934@gmail.com> To: helaine@talk21.com Cc: "Essex-UK@rootsweb.com" <Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 4 March 2013, 23:22 Subject: Re: [Ess] William COLLIN Hi Helen & Listers !    I think you will find that the initials  "MIC" - (NOTE: NOT "MID" !!) stand for "Medal Index Card" and NOT "Middle Index Card" !! I hope this helps !          Best Wishes !        Roger. -------------------- On 4 Mar 2013, at 19:48, helaine@talk21.com wrote: > Hello again Listers, > I have found the answer to my question, the abbreviations are inherited fields on the database used at the museum and are as follows; > RE - Reference; SO - Soldiers Died; PRO - Public Record Office; MID - Middle Index Card. > > It looks likely his father served in WW1 but in regiment more suited  to older men and those medically downgraded. > > thank you for the replies > Helen > > ________________________________ > From: "helaine@talk21.com" <helaine@talk21.com> > To: "Essex-UK@rootsweb.com" <Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, 2 March 2013, 18:27 > Subject: [Ess] William COLLIN > > Hello Listers, > > I am trying to transcibe a printout from Essex Regimental Museum a family WW1 Army Service Record* but I am stuck on a line and wonder if anyone else can help with the abbreviations and number in brackets. > ( RE SD PRO MIC )    May be related to    ( 3-3149 )  Pte W Collin as family hold medals for both    ( I WG ) > > **William Henry Collin, born Chelmsford to William COLLIN and Alice COLE, Lived in Sandon served with Essex Regiment 2nd Bn., killed in France 06/07/1915 > kind regards > Helen > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Helen & Listers ! I think you will find that the initials "MIC" - (NOTE: NOT "MID" !!) stand for "Medal Index Card" and NOT "Middle Index Card" !! I hope this helps ! Best Wishes ! Roger. -------------------- On 4 Mar 2013, at 19:48, helaine@talk21.com wrote: > Hello again Listers, > I have found the answer to my question, the abbreviations are > inherited fields on the database used at the museum and are as > follows; > RE - Reference; SO - Soldiers Died; PRO - Public Record Office; MID > - Middle Index Card. > > It looks likely his father served in WW1 but in regiment more > suited to older men and those medically downgraded. > > thank you for the replies > Helen > > ________________________________ > From: "helaine@talk21.com" <helaine@talk21.com> > To: "Essex-UK@rootsweb.com" <Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, 2 March 2013, 18:27 > Subject: [Ess] William COLLIN > > Hello Listers, > > I am trying to transcibe a printout from Essex Regimental Museum a > family WW1 Army Service Record* but I am stuck on a line and wonder > if anyone else can help with the abbreviations and number in brackets. > ( RE SD PRO MIC ) May be related to ( 3-3149 ) Pte W Collin > as family hold medals for both ( I WG ) > > **William Henry Collin, born Chelmsford to William COLLIN and Alice > COLE, Lived in Sandon served with Essex Regiment 2nd Bn., killed in > France 06/07/1915 > kind regards > Helen > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello again Listers, I have found the answer to my question, the abbreviations are inherited fields on the database used at the museum and are as follows; RE - Reference; SO - Soldiers Died; PRO - Public Record Office; MID - Middle Index Card.   It looks likely his father served in WW1 but in regiment more suited  to older men and those medically downgraded.   thank you for the replies Helen         ________________________________ From: "helaine@talk21.com" <helaine@talk21.com> To: "Essex-UK@rootsweb.com" <Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 2 March 2013, 18:27 Subject: [Ess] William COLLIN Hello Listers,   I am trying to transcibe a printout from Essex Regimental Museum a family WW1 Army Service Record* but I am stuck on a line and wonder if anyone else can help with the abbreviations and number in brackets. ( RE SD PRO MIC )    May be related to    ( 3-3149 )  Pte W Collin as family hold medals for both    ( I WG )    **William Henry Collin, born Chelmsford to William COLLIN and Alice COLE, Lived in Sandon served with Essex Regiment 2nd Bn., killed in France 06/07/1915 kind regards Helen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Listers,   I am trying to transcibe a printout from Essex Regimental Museum a family WW1 Army Service Record* but I am stuck on a line and wonder if anyone else can help with the abbreviations and number in brackets. ( RE SD PRO MIC )    May be related to    ( 3-3149 )  Pte W Collin as family hold medals for both    ( I WG )    **William Henry Collin, born Chelmsford to William COLLIN and Alice COLE, Lived in Sandon served with Essex Regiment 2nd Bn., killed in France 06/07/1915 kind regards Helen

Hello Helen, ( 3-3149 ) This is regimental number for William Henry in the Essex Regt. RE stands for the Royal Engineers in which William Henry also served with the number 614186, I am sorry I cannot help with the rest. Jennifer

Hi List, I am once again seeking help with my White family. .I am hoping that someone can help me with the marriage of Edward White and Elizabeth . I believe they married in the 1790s in Great Bentley and had 5 children one of them being was my gggg-grandfather William Turner White If anyone is able to help me with this family I will be very gratefull Regards Liz Maxwell Victoria Australia

Hi all, I'm looking for a James Duffy who may have lived in the Victoria Dock/West Ham area of Essex around 1910-1920. He would have had a daughter, Mary Elizabeth who married Raymond Fransz in 1920. Her marriage stated father deceased at that time. Witnesses to the marriage where Thomas E Dent and E Dent. Regards Olive

My 3x great grandmother Sarah Bright married to John Clarke. Trying to find her date of birth and place of birth. Possibly Great Coggeshall area. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated Regards Graham

Just passing along in the hope it helps someone else. Supplied by Churchwarden David Vesey Toronto Marriages 21 April 1754 - 11th December 1812 Year Date Christian name Surname Parish Status Occupation Witnesses 1757 30 May Anthony Gibson(Rev) Tendring Clerk Fran Wilson Sarah Vesey Tendring Widow Isabella Chiles 1764 9 Oc Aurthur May Tendring Deb. Finer Mary Hammond Tendring Single Ann Vesey 2 December John Hill Thorpe Daniel Stiles By licence Ann Vesey Tendring Single Mary Stollery? 1768 20 Oct Richard Vesey Tendring John Finer By licence Deborah Finer Tendring Single Sarah Finer 1770 9 OctIsaac Seggers Wix John Vesey Sarah Steady Tendring Single Elizabeth Rolfe 1774 9 DecJames Cousins Tendring Single J. Haiby By licence Sarah Cooper Tendring Widow John Vesey 1775 or 7 28 September Thomas Goslin Tendring John Vesey Hannah Slowgrove Tendring Single Hannah Goodie 1778 20 July Nicholas Ram St Martins, Colchester Widower John Vesey By licence Mary Stollery Tendring Single William Wood 1788 10 Oct John Vesey Tendring Single James Ram By licence Elizabeth Sollery St Dunstans, Stepney Single John Nightingale 1797 6 Oct George Clemmons Tendring Single John Vesey Elizabeth Ames Tendring Single Mary Smith

Hello, Dovercourt, D/P 174/1/8 19 February 1860 Abraham NORSTER buried aged 76 7 December 1876 Elizabeth NORSTER buried aged 88 Hope this helps, Glyn > > Found in Free BMD:- > > Deaths Norster from 1838... Essex > > Abraham Norster Tendring 1st qtr 1860 4A 156 age at death not > given that early - but this could well be your man, Tendring being the > Reg. > District for Dovercourt. > > Also > > Elizabeth Norster Tendring 4th qtr 1876 aged 88 4A 178 > > and > > Henry Norster West Ham 2nd qtr 1904 aged 53 4A 37 who may, or > may > not be, one of yours. > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carole, Thanks for all of this. I had most of it, but I think I will have to get a look at his Greenwich Pensioner record. Not sure what details would be on it though. Being in Cheshire, a trip to TNA is not really on the cards too often. Don On 25/02/2013 20:10, Roy Woolley wrote: > Hello Don, > > > > Found in Free BMD:- > > Deaths Norster from 1838... Essex > > Abraham Norster Tendring 1st qtr 1860 4A 156 age at death not > given that early - but this could well be your man, Tendring being the Reg. > District for Dovercourt. > > Also > > Elizabeth Norster Tendring 4th qtr 1876 aged 88 4A 178 > > and > > Henry Norster West Ham 2nd qtr 1904 aged 53 4A 37 who may, or may > not be, one of yours. > > > > Elizabeth would appear to be possibly the mother of Abraham b 1825 - she > would have been born in 1796 so about 28 when she was married in 1825 - but > they do not appear together on a census. > > > > I found the same information on Find Your Past - but I could not find a > marriage for Abraham b 1825 anywhere. > > > > In 1841 Census the family is down as Norter and in Dovercourt > > In the 1851 census Abraham Norster 66, b. Dorsetshire, Portland, Greenwich > pensioner is in High Rd, Dovercourt with his wife Elizabeth 59 and Charles > Winder Grandchild 10 b. London > > In the 1861 Census , Elizabeth Norster Head, Wid. 68 Post U School Mistress > b. Middlesex London is at the Green Cottages Turnpike Rd, Dovercourt > > > > Happy hunting, > > Carole Woolley > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Don, Found in Free BMD:- Deaths Norster from 1838... Essex Abraham Norster Tendring 1st qtr 1860 4A 156 age at death not given that early - but this could well be your man, Tendring being the Reg. District for Dovercourt. Also Elizabeth Norster Tendring 4th qtr 1876 aged 88 4A 178 and Henry Norster West Ham 2nd qtr 1904 aged 53 4A 37 who may, or may not be, one of yours. Elizabeth would appear to be possibly the mother of Abraham b 1825 - she would have been born in 1796 so about 28 when she was married in 1825 - but they do not appear together on a census. I found the same information on Find Your Past - but I could not find a marriage for Abraham b 1825 anywhere. In 1841 Census the family is down as Norter and in Dovercourt In the 1851 census Abraham Norster 66, b. Dorsetshire, Portland, Greenwich pensioner is in High Rd, Dovercourt with his wife Elizabeth 59 and Charles Winder Grandchild 10 b. London In the 1861 Census , Elizabeth Norster Head, Wid. 68 Post U School Mistress b. Middlesex London is at the Green Cottages Turnpike Rd, Dovercourt Happy hunting, Carole Woolley

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- From: Norster Family Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 12:28 PM To: Essex-UK@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ess] New to List Hi Glyn, Thanks for this - I hadn't thought too much about the continent. His brother Samuel died in the Royal Artillery, so maybe my thoughts were not on seafarers. I have tried newspapers, but to no avail. Hello, Havent been following this, but you could try The British Army Lists. I found one of mine in Novia Scotia through this. good luck. eddy in bavaria

Sue, Sorry for confusion, (mostly on my part), but I have the source down as Dovercourt All Saints, fiche D/P 170/1/11. Don On 24/02/2013 11:48, suffolksue wrote: > Can you tell me in which church you found Abrahams baptism as I looked > in Harwich and Dovercourt and I couldn't find it with the date you said. > Sue > > --- On *Sun, 24/2/13, Norster Family /<norster.family@talktalk.net>/* > wrote: > > > From: Norster Family <norster.family@talktalk.net> > Subject: Re: [Ess] New to List > To: > Cc: Essex-UK@rootsweb.com > Date: Sunday, 24 February, 2013, 11:32 > > Hi Jenny, > > I did glean the Marine Deaths from the Family records centre, when it > existed, and he was not there. > > Abraham doesn't appear on the 1841 census either, although he > would have > been about 16, and could be anywhere. > > Thanks, > > Don > > On 24/02/2013 10:28, Jenny De Angelis wrote: > > HI Don, > > > > If you think there is any possibility that Abraham could have died > > abroad, or at sea, or married abroad, then you could try > searching the > > GRO index of deaths and marriages overseas which you will find > on the > > findmypast site. > > > > If he died on board a British registered vessel then his death > should > > have been reported, by the master of the ship, to the British > Consul > > at the ship's first port of call after the event of the death, > > provided there was a British Consul in that country. Failing > that then > > the death should have been reported to the Registrar of Shipping at > > the port in the Uk where the ship first reached the UK. That > > Registrar of Shipping would then pass a copy onto the GRO in the > same > > way as a District Registrar does a death that happened in > England and > > Wales. If Abraham died on board a foreign registered vessel > then his > > death would not normally be registered with the UK authorities, > as I > > understand it. > > > > Regards > > Jenny DeAngelis > > > > <<recently joined the list, mainly to find any details about Abraham > > NORSTER baptised 28th Nov 1825 at Harwich, son of Abraham NOSTER and > > Elizabeth previously WINDER. They were married on 8th March 1825 at > > Dovercourt-cum-Harwich. > > If possible, I am looking for any marriage or death details for > Abraham. > > I can find nothing on FREEBMD, so assume that he either died before > > 1837, or abroad, and appears not to have married, unless abroad. > > With this family NORSTER and NOSTER are interchangeable. > > They had another son Samuel Henry NORSTER, but I have details of > him.>> > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > <http://uk.mc877.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com > <http://uk.mc877.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message >

Sue, He was born 28 Nov 1825, and baptised in St Nicholas, Harwich on 31 Dec 1825. Don On 24/02/2013 11:48, suffolksue wrote: > Can you tell me in which church you found Abrahams baptism as I looked > in Harwich and Dovercourt and I couldn't find it with the date you said. > Sue > > --- On *Sun, 24/2/13, Norster Family /<norster.family@talktalk.net>/* > wrote: > > > From: Norster Family <norster.family@talktalk.net> > Subject: Re: [Ess] New to List > To: > Cc: Essex-UK@rootsweb.com > Date: Sunday, 24 February, 2013, 11:32 > > Hi Jenny, > > I did glean the Marine Deaths from the Family records centre, when it > existed, and he was not there. > > Abraham doesn't appear on the 1841 census either, although he > would have > been about 16, and could be anywhere. > > Thanks, > > Don > > On 24/02/2013 10:28, Jenny De Angelis wrote: > > HI Don, > > > > If you think there is any possibility that Abraham could have died > > abroad, or at sea, or married abroad, then you could try > searching the > > GRO index of deaths and marriages overseas which you will find > on the > > findmypast site. > > > > If he died on board a British registered vessel then his death > should > > have been reported, by the master of the ship, to the British > Consul > > at the ship's first port of call after the event of the death, > > provided there was a British Consul in that country. Failing > that then > > the death should have been reported to the Registrar of Shipping at > > the port in the Uk where the ship first reached the UK. That > > Registrar of Shipping would then pass a copy onto the GRO in the > same > > way as a District Registrar does a death that happened in > England and > > Wales. If Abraham died on board a foreign registered vessel > then his > > death would not normally be registered with the UK authorities, > as I > > understand it. > > > > Regards > > Jenny DeAngelis > > > > <<recently joined the list, mainly to find any details about Abraham > > NORSTER baptised 28th Nov 1825 at Harwich, son of Abraham NOSTER and > > Elizabeth previously WINDER. They were married on 8th March 1825 at > > Dovercourt-cum-Harwich. > > If possible, I am looking for any marriage or death details for > Abraham. > > I can find nothing on FREEBMD, so assume that he either died before > > 1837, or abroad, and appears not to have married, unless abroad. > > With this family NORSTER and NOSTER are interchangeable. > > They had another son Samuel Henry NORSTER, but I have details of > him.>> > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > <http://uk.mc877.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com > <http://uk.mc877.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message >