Bob in Ontario, Asked where Jane STEPHENSON (died at Osborn Villa, West Ham in 1882) might be buried. Assuming that your Jane Stephenson was the 32 year old who appears in the GRO death index For Dec qtr West Ham then your ancestor appears to have been buried in Manor Park cemetery, Sebert Road on 6th Dec 1882. Deceasedonline now has the burials for this cemetery, which opened in 1875. Alternatively you could check the links at the cemetery website at http://www.mpark.co.uk Duncan, Dundee

take a look at http://www.newham.gov.uk/birthsdeathsandmarriages/westhamcemetery.htm cheers Howard -----Original Message----- From: rstephenson3@cogeco.ca Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 9:01 PM To: ESSEX-UK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Ess] Cemeteries in 1882 Hello everyone; as i live in Ontario, Canada i am not familiar with Essex at all. I have a death for Jane STEPHENSON in 1882. She is described as dying at Osborn Villa, West Ham. Would anyone happen to know what cemetery would be closest to Osborn Villa in 1882. I was hoping Jane’s burial would be listed on the National Burial Index Third Edition but it wasn’t. Is it possible she would be listed on Seax? Hoping someone would be able to help. Bob ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello everyone; as i live in Ontario, Canada i am not familiar with Essex at all. I have a death for Jane STEPHENSON in 1882. She is described as dying at Osborn Villa, West Ham. Would anyone happen to know what cemetery would be closest to Osborn Villa in 1882. I was hoping Jane’s burial would be listed on the National Burial Index Third Edition but it wasn’t. Is it possible she would be listed on Seax? Hoping someone would be able to help. Bob

Hi Listers ! Please pass this on to any other Lists that you belong to ! Best Wishes to All ! Roger. ----------------------- Begin forwarded message: > From: "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> > Date: 16 March 2013 20:00:10 GMT > To: <eng-hereford@rootsweb.com>, <midmarch@rootsweb.com> > Cc: GOONS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MM] Can you help the CWGC? > Reply-To: midmarch@rootsweb.com > > Hi All > > The Commonwealth War Graves Commission are looking for relatives of > quite a > number of war casualties, can you help:- > > http://www.cwgc.org/news-events/news/appeal-for-relatives-(2).aspx > > If you are a member of any other lists, please pass this on. > Thanks > Polly > > ---- MIDMARCH Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the Counties of Brecon, > Hereford, Monmouth, > Shropshire, Stafford and Worcester > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDMARCH- > request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

I am new to the list and I am interested in GOWERS family of Stebbing/Dunmow area, TIA Liz Parkinson

Hi David, More to the point, where does Pope come in? But, if you have documentary proof that Alicia Pope 1871 is your ancestor, the Bernell could have come in by her mother re-marrying. Cheers Steve On 15/03/2013 16:45, David Apps wrote: > Good Afternoon Listers, > I am trying to find out about my paternal grandmothers parents and wonder if anyone has come across the names that I have please? > > I have two copies of Nan's birth certificate, one dated 22nd November 1909 and the second dated 8th March 2008. I was advised to do this to see if there were any differences, there are not. > > They both say; Reg. Dist. Paddington, 1896, sub-dist. Saint Mary in the County of London. > No.134. Fourth July 1896 at 4 Charlotte Place. > Ivy Alicia, Girl. Father Leonard O'Hara Colson. Mother, Alicia Colson formerly Bernell. > Occupation of Father, Resturant Keeper > Informant, A. Colson Mother 4 Charlotte Place. > Registered Thirtyfirst July 1896. > > Firstly, Mother Alicia was born Alice Pope at Falmouth in 1871 to James & Anna Pope nee Frost. > The family say that this was her first marriage, so where did the name Bernell come from? > > Secondly, Leonard, it was said by the family, that he was killed in WW1 whilst on horseback in France. > I can find no trace of him whatsoever, no birth, no marriage no Army record and no death. However his wife re-married a Henry Yates in West Ham on April 18th 1898 and descibes herself as a widow so this, if correct, rules out the WW1 death. > No.4 Charlotte Place does not appear on the 1891 census and I do dot recognise any names on the 1901 census. > > You may have seen this in one of the monthly publications but that got me no-where. > > I have sent this to the four lists for the following reasons; > Cornwall, where great gran was born. > Devon, where several relations still live. > London, where nan was born. > Essex, where great gran re-married. > > I am fairly certain that my nan' birth certificate is a complete fabrication but just in case someone can help - PLEASE. > > David. > King's Lynn. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi June, >> Is there any kind person who could look at church records for me . If all else fails, the parish records are very likely to be available online for you to look at for yourself. http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/EssexAncestors.aspx?selAlphabet=R&selParish=11742 It's free to find out whether the particular register is available online or not (if so, it will say "Digital Images" against it) but then you have to pay to look into the register. It costs GBP5 for 24 hours access to the whole site (cheaper rate if you sign up for longer) so save up all the Essex info you need to look for - besides BMD registers, there are wills and other documents I think - and do it all at once on a day when you can spend as much time as possible on it to get your money's worth. ;o) Regards, Jan

Good Afternoon Listers, I am trying to find out about my paternal grandmothers parents and wonder if anyone has come across the names that I have please? I have two copies of Nan's birth certificate, one dated 22nd November 1909 and the second dated 8th March 2008. I was advised to do this to see if there were any differences, there are not. They both say; Reg. Dist. Paddington, 1896, sub-dist. Saint Mary in the County of London. No.134. Fourth July 1896 at 4 Charlotte Place. Ivy Alicia, Girl. Father Leonard O'Hara Colson. Mother, Alicia Colson formerly Bernell. Occupation of Father, Resturant Keeper Informant, A. Colson Mother 4 Charlotte Place. Registered Thirtyfirst July 1896. Firstly, Mother Alicia was born Alice Pope at Falmouth in 1871 to James & Anna Pope nee Frost. The family say that this was her first marriage, so where did the name Bernell come from? Secondly, Leonard, it was said by the family, that he was killed in WW1 whilst on horseback in France. I can find no trace of him whatsoever, no birth, no marriage no Army record and no death. However his wife re-married a Henry Yates in West Ham on April 18th 1898 and descibes herself as a widow so this, if correct, rules out the WW1 death. No.4 Charlotte Place does not appear on the 1891 census and I do dot recognise any names on the 1901 census. You may have seen this in one of the monthly publications but that got me no-where. I have sent this to the four lists for the following reasons; Cornwall, where great gran was born. Devon, where several relations still live. London, where nan was born. Essex, where great gran re-married. I am fairly certain that my nan' birth certificate is a complete fabrication but just in case someone can help - PLEASE. David. King's Lynn.

My grmother Elizabeth ROBERTS b Hare St, Romford 1871 4a 132 I have been looking many yrs for 2 boys b between 1872 - 1879 , brothers of Elizabeth , I recently checked Freebmd & found 11 boys b in Romford between those yrs . Is there any kind person who could look at church records for me . There was talk of twins . Dec Qtr 1873 shows 2 boys Henry George ROBERTS 4a 153 William James ROBERTS 4a 153 I looked at deaths but nothing showing up there . My grgrmother certainly did not have any sons with her in 1881 census nor did her husband . A real mystery as to what happened to these boys . I really would appreciate any help. June Brown

Hi, I am researching my MARTIN roots & have hit a brick wall concerning some brothers & sisters of my Grandfather EDWARD HERBERT MARTIN b Witham in 1877. Their parents were CHARLES MARTIN b In Great Bealings, Suffolk in 1844& Kate WALLER. The brothers & Sisters I am looking for are; KATE MATILDA MARTIN b1873 in Chelmsford. I have her last working in London on the 1901 census, but haven't been able to find her on the 1911 census, so presumed she has married. Does anyone know of her after 1901? ALICE MAUD MARTIN b 1875 in Witham, she was working with Kate on the 1901 census but again, can't find her on the 1911 census. Again, does anyone know of her whereabouts, again possibly married. CHARLES MARTIN b1883 in Witham.Got him on the 1901 census , working in Shoreditch, London but nothing after that. Did he marry & where did he live? ARTHUR MARTINb 1884 in Witham. I believe he went into the navy, but can't find him. Did he marry & where did he settle down? Was he killed in WW1? ALFRED E MARTIN b1886 in Witham. Found him on 1911 census in London, but did he marry & where did he live? Hoping someone can help me fill in the gaps I have in my records. Many thanks Regrads Gill (Martin)

On 13/03/2013 18:39, Chris Graves wrote: > ...However there is a more contemporaneous source for allegations of soldiers > sold as slaves to the galleys, to which she does also refer several times > and that is Matthew Carter : 'A Most True and Exact Relation of That as > Honourable Expedition of Kent, Essex and Colchester '(1650) > > Er, I bought my copy through abebooks ! > > Chris Graves, Colchester Searching Worldcat for " Most True and Exact Relation" produces some interesting titles: http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=ti%3AA+Most+True+and+Exact+Relation&qt=advanced&dblist=638 Lawrence

Hi Ruth I have one reference to a John Aylet of Colchester, who petitioned in 1660 “for the vacant office of Customer of Colchester in recompense for his losses in 1648 and after. He had lost, he claimed, £3,000 through the plunder of his house and malting place, and this had been followed by payment of £150 towards the fine and more heavy taxation.” The source is Morant’s History of Essex ‘CSPDom. 1660-61, 155’ Hey, this is fun. Just to remind other listers that I am the OPC for Colchester St Mary-at-the-Walls and St Peter’s, and have quite a few resources covering all the town and extra-mural parishes, happy to help with look-ups, but my role as OPC is to gather material so it can be passed on so if there is research out there that people are happy to pass on, pedigrees, notes, photos, whatever, please do contact me. Chris Graves, Colchester From: Ruth Aylett [mailto:r.s.aylett@hw.ac.uk] Sent: 12 March 2013 20:10 To: chris@thegraves.co.uk; 'Peter Moll'; essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ Chris, Is there any reference in this book to either of the John Ayletts that were in the siege of Colchester? One lived in the town and was a Master, the other fought with Sir Charles Lucas but was said to have escaped the siege before the end. Ruth -- Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Chris Graves" <chris@thegraves.co.uk> To: "'Peter Moll'" <bviabe@gmail.com>, <essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ Date: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 19:14 I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I do have Barbara Donagan's book, which is very much a study of war and civil war, rather than its causes. In the last section of the book she provides an account of two sieges, Boarstall House (1645-1646) and a much longer account of Colchester (1648). She describes the "major outbreaks of the second war were geographically dispersed and episodic; it was less a planned and co-ordinated war than, as John Kenyon has said, 'a series of scattered uprisings'. Both she and Phil Jones ('The Siege of Colchester 1648') describe the chaotic attempts by royalists to foment uprisings in different parts of the country, with a series uprising in Kent led by the Earl of Norwich (whom we in Colchester know by his lesser title of Lord Goring) which started well, and then fizzled out, and then, following a vain attempt to foment an uprising in London, found it countered by Fairfax' much smaller but better organised army. The royalists fled into Essex, principally to escape Fairfax, but fondly believing they would receive support there. That support wasn't enough to resist Fairfax, and so they ended up at Colchester in the belief that Sir Charles Lucas' home there would be a sufficient base to hold out, and draw reinforcements from Suffolk and the Royalist Navy. That's the main theme in the books I've read. That said, Barbara Donagan's bibliography is impressive, with 26 pages of largely primary sources. They relate to the whole book, not just the last four chapters. Chris Graves Colchester -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Moll Sent: 12 March 2013 11:23 To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ Is there any evidence that a Parliamentary threat before the Colchester campaign to enslave captured Royalists, mentioned in several secondary resources, was ever carried out? Barbara Donagan claims to be "drawing extensively on primary sources" for *War in England 1642-1649" (2008). She uses the Siege of Colchester as a case history in her research into the actual experience of living through the War, trying to answer such questions as "What were the rules that were supposed to govern conduct in war, and how were they enforced?" She seems to have drawn on a Royalist source for the Parliamentary threat at the outset of the Colchester campaign to "transport and sell them [captured royalists] beyond Sea for slaves" and a Parliamentary one for her statement that the plan was later dropped (the minutes of the Essex Committee?) I have read only extracts from Donagan's book,so must apologise for the absence of page references, but would be very grateful if someone with access to her book would check to see if she quotes her primary sources in each case. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've looked at it again, because I may have misunderstood. I was looking at reprisals against Royalists as the cause of the Second Civil War, rather than as its aftermath. Donagan does deal with this, in particular to say that the allegations of soldier prisoners being sold into slavery was a common accusation, not just about those from Colchester. She cites Mercurius Pragmaticus, Mercurius Elencticus in particular as the sources, also John Rushworth, who was writing in 1680 and may have retailed the Royalist propaganda as fact. However there is a more contemporaneous source for allegations of soldiers sold as slaves to the galleys, to which she does also refer several times and that is Matthew Carter : 'A Most True and Exact Relation of That as Honourable Expedition of Kent, Essex and Colchester '(1650) Er, I bought my copy through abebooks ! Chris Graves, Colchester -----Original Message----- From: Peter Moll [mailto:bviabe@gmail.com] Sent: 13 March 2013 14:47 To: Chris Graves Cc: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ Chris I noted from some sample pages of Donagan's book online that the numbering of her footnotes restarted for each chapter, so I assume that her bibliography is correspondingly sequenced. If I could ascertain the page(s) referring to the threat to enslave Royalist prisoners, it should be much easier to find the primary sources she consulted for them Thanks again for your help Peter Moll Tortola, BVI formerly living in Mile End, Colchester On 12 March 2013 17:18, Peter Moll <bviabe@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, Chris > > Andrew Phillips repeats the claim that Royalist prisoners were sent to > the West Indies as slaves in 'Colchester: a history" (2004), but > Donagan casts doubt on the plan being effected > [snip] > > I expect the passages concerned are fairly short, but such a > distinctive topic might still be indexed; perhaps under "slavery" > > I shall certainly pick up this book in Colchester later this year, if > I have not already bought a copy online. > > Peter Moll > > On 12 March 2013 15:14, Chris Graves <chris@thegraves.co.uk> wrote: >> I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I do have Barbara >> Donagan's book, which is very much a study of war and civil war, >> rather than its causes. In the last section of the book she provides >> an account of two sieges, Boarstall House (1645-1646) and a much >> longer account of Colchester (1648). She describes the "major >> outbreaks of the second war were geographically dispersed and >> episodic; it was less a planned and co-ordinated war than, as John >> Kenyon has said, 'a series of scattered uprisings'. >> >> Both she and Phil Jones ('The Siege of Colchester 1648') describe the >> chaotic attempts by royalists to foment uprisings in different parts >> of the country, with a series uprising in Kent led by the Earl of >> Norwich (whom we in Colchester know by his lesser title of Lord >> Goring) which started well, and then fizzled out, and then, following >> a vain attempt to foment an uprising in London, found it countered by >> Fairfax' much smaller but better organised army. The royalists fled >> into Essex, principally to escape Fairfax, but fondly believing they would receive support there. >> >> That support wasn't enough to resist Fairfax, and so they ended up at >> Colchester in the belief that Sir Charles Lucas' home there would be >> a sufficient base to hold out, and draw reinforcements from Suffolk >> and the Royalist Navy. >> >> That's the main theme in the books I've read. >> >> That said, Barbara Donagan's bibliography is impressive, with 26 >> pages of largely primary sources. They relate to the whole book, not >> just the last four chapters. >> >> Chris Graves >> Colchester >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of Peter Moll >> Sent: 12 March 2013 11:23 >> To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ >> >> Is there any evidence that a Parliamentary threat before the >> Colchester campaign to enslave captured Royalists, mentioned in >> several secondary resources, was ever carried out? >> >> Barbara Donagan claims to be "drawing extensively on primary sources" >> for *War in England 1642-1649" (2008). She uses the Siege of >> Colchester as a case history in her research into the actual >> experience of living through the War, trying to answer such questions >> as "What were the rules that were supposed to govern conduct in war, and how were they enforced?" >> >> She seems to have drawn on a Royalist source for the Parliamentary >> threat at the outset of the Colchester campaign to "transport and >> sell them [captured royalists] beyond Sea for slaves" and a >> Parliamentary one for her statement that the plan was later dropped >> (the minutes of the Essex Committee?) >> >> I have read only extracts from Donagan's book,so must apologise for >> the absence of page references, but would be very grateful if someone >> with access to her book would check to see if she quotes her primary >> sources in each case.

Many thanks, Chris On 13 March 2013 14:39, Chris Graves <chris@thegraves.co.uk> wrote: > I've looked at it again, because I may have misunderstood. I was looking at > reprisals against Royalists as the cause of the Second Civil War, rather > than as its aftermath. Donagan does deal with this, in particular to say > that the allegations of soldier prisoners being sold into slavery was a > common accusation, not just about those from Colchester. She cites Mercurius > Pragmaticus, Mercurius Elencticus in particular as the sources, also John > Rushworth, who was writing in 1680 and may have retailed the Royalist > propaganda as fact. > > However there is a more contemporaneous source for allegations of soldiers > sold as slaves to the galleys, to which she does also refer several times > and that is Matthew Carter : 'A Most True and Exact Relation of That as > Honourable Expedition of Kent, Essex and Colchester '(1650) > > Er, I bought my copy through abebooks ! > > Chris Graves, Colchester > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Moll [mailto:bviabe@gmail.com] > Sent: 13 March 2013 14:47 > To: Chris Graves > Cc: essex-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ > > Chris > > I noted from some sample pages of Donagan's book online that the numbering > of her footnotes restarted for each chapter, so I assume that her > bibliography is correspondingly sequenced. > > If I could ascertain the page(s) referring to the threat to enslave Royalist > prisoners, it should be much easier to find the primary sources she > consulted for them > > Thanks again for your help > > Peter Moll > Tortola, BVI > formerly living in Mile End, Colchester > > On 12 March 2013 17:18, Peter Moll <bviabe@gmail.com> wrote: >> Thanks, Chris >> >> Andrew Phillips repeats the claim that Royalist prisoners were sent to >> the West Indies as slaves in 'Colchester: a history" (2004), but >> Donagan casts doubt on the plan being effected >> > [snip] >> >> I expect the passages concerned are fairly short, but such a >> distinctive topic might still be indexed; perhaps under "slavery" >> >> I shall certainly pick up this book in Colchester later this year, if >> I have not already bought a copy online. >> >> Peter Moll >> >> On 12 March 2013 15:14, Chris Graves <chris@thegraves.co.uk> wrote: >>> I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I do have Barbara >>> Donagan's book, which is very much a study of war and civil war, >>> rather than its causes. In the last section of the book she provides >>> an account of two sieges, Boarstall House (1645-1646) and a much >>> longer account of Colchester (1648). She describes the "major >>> outbreaks of the second war were geographically dispersed and >>> episodic; it was less a planned and co-ordinated war than, as John >>> Kenyon has said, 'a series of scattered uprisings'. >>> >>> Both she and Phil Jones ('The Siege of Colchester 1648') describe the >>> chaotic attempts by royalists to foment uprisings in different parts >>> of the country, with a series uprising in Kent led by the Earl of >>> Norwich (whom we in Colchester know by his lesser title of Lord >>> Goring) which started well, and then fizzled out, and then, following >>> a vain attempt to foment an uprising in London, found it countered by >>> Fairfax' much smaller but better organised army. The royalists fled >>> into Essex, principally to escape Fairfax, but fondly believing they > would receive support there. >>> >>> That support wasn't enough to resist Fairfax, and so they ended up at >>> Colchester in the belief that Sir Charles Lucas' home there would be >>> a sufficient base to hold out, and draw reinforcements from Suffolk >>> and the Royalist Navy. >>> >>> That's the main theme in the books I've read. >>> >>> That said, Barbara Donagan's bibliography is impressive, with 26 >>> pages of largely primary sources. They relate to the whole book, not >>> just the last four chapters. >>> >>> Chris Graves >>> Colchester >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] >>> On Behalf Of Peter Moll >>> Sent: 12 March 2013 11:23 >>> To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ >>> >>> Is there any evidence that a Parliamentary threat before the >>> Colchester campaign to enslave captured Royalists, mentioned in >>> several secondary resources, was ever carried out? >>> >>> Barbara Donagan claims to be "drawing extensively on primary sources" >>> for *War in England 1642-1649" (2008). She uses the Siege of >>> Colchester as a case history in her research into the actual >>> experience of living through the War, trying to answer such questions >>> as "What were the rules that were supposed to govern conduct in war, and > how were they enforced?" >>> >>> She seems to have drawn on a Royalist source for the Parliamentary >>> threat at the outset of the Colchester campaign to "transport and >>> sell them [captured royalists] beyond Sea for slaves" and a >>> Parliamentary one for her statement that the plan was later dropped >>> (the minutes of the Essex Committee?) >>> >>> I have read only extracts from Donagan's book,so must apologise for >>> the absence of page references, but would be very grateful if someone >>> with access to her book would check to see if she quotes her primary >>> sources in each case. >

Chris I noted from some sample pages of Donagan's book online that the numbering of her footnotes restarted for each chapter, so I assume that her bibliography is correspondingly sequenced. If I could ascertain the page(s) referring to the threat to enslave Royalist prisoners, it should be much easier to find the primary sources she consulted for them Thanks again for your help Peter Moll Tortola, BVI formerly living in Mile End, Colchester On 12 March 2013 17:18, Peter Moll <bviabe@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, Chris > > Andrew Phillips repeats the claim that Royalist prisoners were sent to > the West Indies as slaves in 'Colchester: a history" (2004), but > Donagan casts doubt on the plan being effected > [snip] > > I expect the passages concerned are fairly short, but such a > distinctive topic might still be indexed; perhaps under "slavery" > > I shall certainly pick up this book in Colchester later this year, if > I have not already bought a copy online. > > Peter Moll > > On 12 March 2013 15:14, Chris Graves <chris@thegraves.co.uk> wrote: >> I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I do have Barbara >> Donagan's book, which is very much a study of war and civil war, rather than >> its causes. In the last section of the book she provides an account of two >> sieges, Boarstall House (1645-1646) and a much longer account of Colchester >> (1648). She describes the "major outbreaks of the second war were >> geographically dispersed and episodic; it was less a planned and >> co-ordinated war than, as John Kenyon has said, 'a series of scattered >> uprisings'. >> >> Both she and Phil Jones ('The Siege of Colchester 1648') describe the >> chaotic attempts by royalists to foment uprisings in different parts of the >> country, with a series uprising in Kent led by the Earl of Norwich (whom we >> in Colchester know by his lesser title of Lord Goring) which started well, >> and then fizzled out, and then, following a vain attempt to foment an >> uprising in London, found it countered by Fairfax' much smaller but better >> organised army. The royalists fled into Essex, principally to escape >> Fairfax, but fondly believing they would receive support there. >> >> That support wasn't enough to resist Fairfax, and so they ended up at >> Colchester in the belief that Sir Charles Lucas' home there would be a >> sufficient base to hold out, and draw reinforcements from Suffolk and the >> Royalist Navy. >> >> That's the main theme in the books I've read. >> >> That said, Barbara Donagan's bibliography is impressive, with 26 pages of >> largely primary sources. They relate to the whole book, not just the last >> four chapters. >> >> Chris Graves >> Colchester >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of Peter Moll >> Sent: 12 March 2013 11:23 >> To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ >> >> Is there any evidence that a Parliamentary threat before the Colchester >> campaign to enslave captured Royalists, mentioned in several secondary >> resources, was ever carried out? >> >> Barbara Donagan claims to be "drawing extensively on primary sources" >> for *War in England 1642-1649" (2008). She uses the Siege of Colchester as a >> case history in her research into the actual experience of living through >> the War, trying to answer such questions as "What were the rules that were >> supposed to govern conduct in war, and how were they enforced?" >> >> She seems to have drawn on a Royalist source for the Parliamentary threat at >> the outset of the Colchester campaign to "transport and sell them [captured >> royalists] beyond Sea for slaves" and a Parliamentary one for her statement >> that the plan was later dropped (the minutes of the Essex Committee?) >> >> I have read only extracts from Donagan's book,so must apologise for the >> absence of page references, but would be very grateful if someone with >> access to her book would check to see if she quotes her primary sources in >> each case.

I am a Freeman of the City of Colchester (though not associated with The Siege). Some of the Freemanship is supposed to go back to this date so it would be interesting if anyone can confirm this Regards Graham Taylor -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Graves Sent: 12 March 2013 19:15 To: 'Peter Moll'; essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I do have Barbara Donagan's book, which is very much a study of war and civil war, rather than its causes. In the last section of the book she provides an account of two sieges, Boarstall House (1645-1646) and a much longer account of Colchester (1648). She describes the "major outbreaks of the second war were geographically dispersed and episodic; it was less a planned and co-ordinated war than, as John Kenyon has said, 'a series of scattered uprisings'. Both she and Phil Jones ('The Siege of Colchester 1648') describe the chaotic attempts by royalists to foment uprisings in different parts of the country, with a series uprising in Kent led by the Earl of Norwich (whom we in Colchester know by his lesser title of Lord Goring) which started well, and then fizzled out, and then, following a vain attempt to foment an uprising in London, found it countered by Fairfax' much smaller but better organised army. The royalists fled into Essex, principally to escape Fairfax, but fondly believing they would receive support there. That support wasn't enough to resist Fairfax, and so they ended up at Colchester in the belief that Sir Charles Lucas' home there would be a sufficient base to hold out, and draw reinforcements from Suffolk and the Royalist Navy. That's the main theme in the books I've read. That said, Barbara Donagan's bibliography is impressive, with 26 pages of largely primary sources. They relate to the whole book, not just the last four chapters. Chris Graves Colchester -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Moll Sent: 12 March 2013 11:23 To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ Is there any evidence that a Parliamentary threat before the Colchester campaign to enslave captured Royalists, mentioned in several secondary resources, was ever carried out? Barbara Donagan claims to be "drawing extensively on primary sources" for *War in England 1642-1649" (2008). She uses the Siege of Colchester as a case history in her research into the actual experience of living through the War, trying to answer such questions as "What were the rules that were supposed to govern conduct in war, and how were they enforced?" She seems to have drawn on a Royalist source for the Parliamentary threat at the outset of the Colchester campaign to "transport and sell them [captured royalists] beyond Sea for slaves" and a Parliamentary one for her statement that the plan was later dropped (the minutes of the Essex Committee?) I have read only extracts from Donagan's book,so must apologise for the absence of page references, but would be very grateful if someone with access to her book would check to see if she quotes her primary sources in each case. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Chris, Is there any reference in this book to either of the John Ayletts that were in the siege of Colchester? One lived in the town and was a Master, the other fought with Sir Charles Lucas but was said to have escaped the siege before the end. Ruth -- Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Chris Graves" <chris@thegraves.co.uk> To: "'Peter Moll'" <bviabe@gmail.com>, <essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ Date: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 19:14 I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I do have Barbara Donagan's book, which is very much a study of war and civil war, rather than its causes. In the last section of the book she provides an account of two sieges, Boarstall House (1645-1646) and a much longer account of Colchester (1648). She describes the "major outbreaks of the second war were geographically dispersed and episodic; it was less a planned and co-ordinated war than, as John Kenyon has said, 'a series of scattered uprisings'. Both she and Phil Jones ('The Siege of Colchester 1648') describe the chaotic attempts by royalists to foment uprisings in different parts of the country, with a series uprising in Kent led by the Earl of Norwich (whom we in Colchester know by his lesser title of Lord Goring) which started well, and then fizzled out, and then, following a vain attempt to foment an uprising in London, found it countered by Fairfax' much smaller but better organised army. The royalists fled into Essex, principally to escape Fairfax, but fondly believing they would receive support there. That support wasn't enough to resist Fairfax, and so they ended up at Colchester in the belief that Sir Charles Lucas' home there would be a sufficient base to hold out, and draw reinforcements from Suffolk and the Royalist Navy. That's the main theme in the books I've read. That said, Barbara Donagan's bibliography is impressive, with 26 pages of largely primary sources. They relate to the whole book, not just the last four chapters. Chris Graves Colchester -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Moll Sent: 12 March 2013 11:23 To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ Is there any evidence that a Parliamentary threat before the Colchester campaign to enslave captured Royalists, mentioned in several secondary resources, was ever carried out? Barbara Donagan claims to be "drawing extensively on primary sources" for *War in England 1642-1649" (2008). She uses the Siege of Colchester as a case history in her research into the actual experience of living through the War, trying to answer such questions as "What were the rules that were supposed to govern conduct in war, and how were they enforced?" She seems to have drawn on a Royalist source for the Parliamentary threat at the outset of the Colchester campaign to "transport and sell them [captured royalists] beyond Sea for slaves" and a Parliamentary one for her statement that the plan was later dropped (the minutes of the Essex Committee?) I have read only extracts from Donagan's book,so must apologise for the absence of page references, but would be very grateful if someone with access to her book would check to see if she quotes her primary sources in each case. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I do have Barbara Donagan's book, which is very much a study of war and civil war, rather than its causes. In the last section of the book she provides an account of two sieges, Boarstall House (1645-1646) and a much longer account of Colchester (1648). She describes the "major outbreaks of the second war were geographically dispersed and episodic; it was less a planned and co-ordinated war than, as John Kenyon has said, 'a series of scattered uprisings'. Both she and Phil Jones ('The Siege of Colchester 1648') describe the chaotic attempts by royalists to foment uprisings in different parts of the country, with a series uprising in Kent led by the Earl of Norwich (whom we in Colchester know by his lesser title of Lord Goring) which started well, and then fizzled out, and then, following a vain attempt to foment an uprising in London, found it countered by Fairfax' much smaller but better organised army. The royalists fled into Essex, principally to escape Fairfax, but fondly believing they would receive support there. That support wasn't enough to resist Fairfax, and so they ended up at Colchester in the belief that Sir Charles Lucas' home there would be a sufficient base to hold out, and draw reinforcements from Suffolk and the Royalist Navy. That's the main theme in the books I've read. That said, Barbara Donagan's bibliography is impressive, with 26 pages of largely primary sources. They relate to the whole book, not just the last four chapters. Chris Graves Colchester -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Moll Sent: 12 March 2013 11:23 To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [Ess] Siege of Colchester/ Is there any evidence that a Parliamentary threat before the Colchester campaign to enslave captured Royalists, mentioned in several secondary resources, was ever carried out? Barbara Donagan claims to be "drawing extensively on primary sources" for *War in England 1642-1649" (2008). She uses the Siege of Colchester as a case history in her research into the actual experience of living through the War, trying to answer such questions as "What were the rules that were supposed to govern conduct in war, and how were they enforced?" She seems to have drawn on a Royalist source for the Parliamentary threat at the outset of the Colchester campaign to "transport and sell them [captured royalists] beyond Sea for slaves" and a Parliamentary one for her statement that the plan was later dropped (the minutes of the Essex Committee?) I have read only extracts from Donagan's book,so must apologise for the absence of page references, but would be very grateful if someone with access to her book would check to see if she quotes her primary sources in each case. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Lawrence. It's satisfying to solve little puzzles like that. Not Essex but not far away. Dudley -------------------------------------------------- From: "La Greenall" <eldeworth@googlemail.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:23 AM To: <essex-uk@rootsweb.com>; "Muriel" <muriel.hornby@sympatico.ca>; "Mike Fry" <fredbonzo@iafrica.com>; "johnfhhgen" <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> Subject: Re: [Ess] FW: Help needed identifying church > Hi all. > > Just to say, briefly, that ChurchCrawler > (http://www.churchcrawler.co.uk/) has identified this church. It is St. > John of Jerusalem, South Hackney. > > http://www.sjoj.co.uk/gallery/album.php?s=inside-the-church > > Many listers (including me) thought that the church was very late 19th > century due to its unfussiness; Steve thought otherwise, that it was > earlier Victorian. He turns out to be correct - it was finished in 1848. > Its plainness is because it was built before High Gothic had taken off, > not after it had gone out of fashion. > > Best wishes, > Lawrence > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Is there any evidence that a Parliamentary threat before the Colchester campaign to enslave captured Royalists, mentioned in several secondary resources, was ever carried out? Barbara Donagan claims to be "drawing extensively on primary sources" for *War in England 1642-1649" (2008). She uses the Siege of Colchester as a case history in her research into the actual experience of living through the War, trying to answer such questions as "What were the rules that were supposed to govern conduct in war, and how were they enforced?" She seems to have drawn on a Royalist source for the Parliamentary threat at the outset of the Colchester campaign to "transport and sell them [captured royalists] beyond Sea for slaves" and a Parliamentary one for her statement that the plan was later dropped (the minutes of the Essex Committee?) I have read only extracts from Donagan's book,so must apologise for the absence of page references, but would be very grateful if someone with access to her book would check to see if she quotes her primary sources in each case.