St. James, Great Saling   Thomas Dyer born April 1st and baptised April 14th, 1799, son of George and Mary. ________________________________ From: Adrian <adrianp7@talktalk.net> To: Essex-UK@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 10 June 2013, 7:31 Subject: [Ess] THOMAS DYER OF GREAT SALING I am continuing to try to help a friend with her family history research. According to various census returns, Thomas DYER was born in Great Saling sometime between 1798 and 1802. He married a Charlotte sometime before 1827/28 when their son George was born. As yet I have been unable to locate details of either his baptism or his marriage. Can anyone help, please? Adrian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am continuing to try to help a friend with her family history research. According to various census returns, Thomas DYER was born in Great Saling sometime between 1798 and 1802. He married a Charlotte sometime before 1827/28 when their son George was born. As yet I have been unable to locate details of either his baptism or his marriage. Can anyone help, please? Adrian

A little geographical help: Gt Parndon is now part of Harlow newtown; it is in the south-western part of that town and is virtually next door to Roydon. As Dick says, Roydon is only just within Essex, being on the eastern bank of the river Lea (or Lee), which forms the county boundary with Hertfordshire. Just above Roydon, a large tributary river flows from the east into the Lea; it is called the Stort (Bishops Stortford a few more miles north is named after it). South of the Stort and to the east of Roydon is the new town of Harlow, which was formed out of several ancient parishes just after WW2. All the parishes still exist as 'suburbs' or housing estates within the newtown, and one of these is Great Parndon. It lies in the south-west part of Harlow and is virtually next door to Roydon. If you go to these sites and click on the 'Find Us' tab in each, you'll find maps of the modern parish boundaries which (at least for Roydon) haven't changed very much over time: http://www.achurchnearyou.com/roydon-st-peter/ http://www.achurchnearyou.com/great-parndon-st-mary/ A few miles down the Lea from Roydon, on its western banks, is Edmonton, then and now a big suburb of metropolitan London, and in the county of Middlesex which is to the south of Herts. In contrast, Roydon was and still is a remote agricultural parish. Travelling to Edmonton would have taken a few hours back then but would have been a very ordinary journey to make. Another mapping resource is http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html. It looks like you have to pay to see the maps, and they try to get you to buy nice glossy prints of them, but viewing is free. Simply type Roydon Essex (etc.) into the search box. At first you'll see a modern map, but in the right-hand menu box you'll find links to older maps of the same locality. Familysearch produces 72 results on a search for a Thomas Ward married to a Mary during 1820-1831 in England. I would think many of them could be eliminated by identifying them in the 1841 census. This would be a very shaky way to try to find him I admit, but it would be a start. Jack Baxter's Marriage Index mentioned by Dick would be very useful if he married in Essex; for Hertfordshire the equivalent would be the Allen Index here: http://www.hertsdirect.org/services/leisculture/heritage1/hals/indexes/indexes/marriages/ Good luck, Lawrence in Waltham Abbey (on the eastern banks of the Lea between Roydon and Edmonton). On 08/06/2013 10:25, Norman Full wrote: > Good evening, > > I am seeking help in finding the parents & date of birth of my ancestor, > Thomas Ward alias Brown. He was convicted at the Essex Lent Assize in 1831, > age 17, of stealing two calves at Great Parndon. He was sentenced to be > hung but was reprieved & sentenced to be transported to Tasmania for life. > The public Records Office indictment " Thomas Brown late of the parish of > Romford in the county of Essex, labourer, otherwise called Thomas Ward, on > the 26th day of January did steal two heifers value 8 Pounds of John > Holmes." He arrived in Hobart, Tasmania on the :"William Bentinck" on 29 > August 1832. Thomas Brown was listed as a native of Roydon/ Royton Hamlet, > Essex. > > His convict record states" Married- proper name Ward, Wife Mary Ward at > Edmonton. > > His death registration in 1901 shows his age as 97 ( suggesting a date of > birth as 1894?) His father was shown as John. > > I would be grateful for any help in resolving his date of birth, his parents > & where he lived in Essex. As he married Ann Crosland at Hobart in 1838, > Iwould also be interested in his previous marriage. > > Thank you > > Norman Full Sydney, Australia > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Norman A death registration in 1901 aged 97 (a very great age indeed at that period) implies a birthdate of 1804, which would give an age at trial of 27 rather than 17. If Thomas was married by the date of his trial that lends weight to his having been 27 rather than 17. Although a male could marry as young as 14 at that time it would be extremely unusual. I would hope a fellow lister might be able to identify a marriage in the late 1820s. If no one does so come back to me and I'll explain about Jack Baxter's marriage index. And although Roydon is in Essex it's only just so - the border with Hertfordshire is very close. Dick Mathews On 08/06/2013 10:25, Norman Full wrote: > Good evening, > > I am seeking help in finding the parents & date of birth of my ancestor, > Thomas Ward alias Brown. He was convicted at the Essex Lent Assize in 1831, > age 17, of stealing two calves at Great Parndon. He was sentenced to be > hung but was reprieved & sentenced to be transported to Tasmania for life. > The public Records Office indictment " Thomas Brown late of the parish of > Romford in the county of Essex, labourer, otherwise called Thomas Ward, on > the 26th day of January did steal two heifers value 8 Pounds of John > Holmes." He arrived in Hobart, Tasmania on the :"William Bentinck" on 29 > August 1832. Thomas Brown was listed as a native of Roydon/ Royton Hamlet, > Essex. > > His convict record states" Married- proper name Ward, Wife Mary Ward at > Edmonton. > > His death registration in 1901 shows his age as 97 ( suggesting a date of > birth as 1894?) His father was shown as John. > > I would be grateful for any help in resolving his date of birth, his parents > & where he lived in Essex. As he married Ann Crosland at Hobart in 1838, > Iwould also be interested in his previous marriage. > > Thank you > > Norman Full Sydney, Australia > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good evening, I am seeking help in finding the parents & date of birth of my ancestor, Thomas Ward alias Brown. He was convicted at the Essex Lent Assize in 1831, age 17, of stealing two calves at Great Parndon. He was sentenced to be hung but was reprieved & sentenced to be transported to Tasmania for life. The public Records Office indictment " Thomas Brown late of the parish of Romford in the county of Essex, labourer, otherwise called Thomas Ward, on the 26th day of January did steal two heifers value 8 Pounds of John Holmes." He arrived in Hobart, Tasmania on the :"William Bentinck" on 29 August 1832. Thomas Brown was listed as a native of Roydon/ Royton Hamlet, Essex. His convict record states" Married- proper name Ward, Wife Mary Ward at Edmonton. His death registration in 1901 shows his age as 97 ( suggesting a date of birth as 1894?) His father was shown as John. I would be grateful for any help in resolving his date of birth, his parents & where he lived in Essex. As he married Ann Crosland at Hobart in 1838, Iwould also be interested in his previous marriage. Thank you Norman Full Sydney, Australia

Royston, Essex? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Full" <nfull@bigpond.com> To: <Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 2:25 AM Subject: [Ess] Thomas Ward alias Brown > Good evening, > > I am seeking help in finding the parents & date of birth of my ancestor, > Thomas Ward alias Brown. He was convicted at the Essex Lent Assize in > 1831, > age 17, of stealing two calves at Great Parndon. He was sentenced to be > hung but was reprieved & sentenced to be transported to Tasmania for > life. > The public Records Office indictment " Thomas Brown late of the parish of > Romford in the county of Essex, labourer, otherwise called Thomas Ward, on > the 26th day of January did steal two heifers value 8 Pounds of John > Holmes." He arrived in Hobart, Tasmania on the :"William Bentinck" on 29 > August 1832. Thomas Brown was listed as a native of Roydon/ Royton Hamlet, > Essex. > > His convict record states" Married- proper name Ward, Wife Mary Ward at > Edmonton. > > His death registration in 1901 shows his age as 97 ( suggesting a date of > birth as 1894?) His father was shown as John. > > I would be grateful for any help in resolving his date of birth, his > parents > & where he lived in Essex. As he married Ann Crosland at Hobart in 1838, > Iwould also be interested in his previous marriage. > > Thank you > > Norman Full Sydney, Australia > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Dorothy, If you Google Cheam, there are masses of sites including maps etc Regards, Mick

Hi Dorothy, Cheam is part of the London Borough of Sutton which is more or less South-South-West from central London and about 10 miles from that centre. IF you have access to a good Road Atlas that shows London in reasonable detail this should help you to find it, but if you are still out of luck then email me direct, rather than on the List, and I will try to help further. I think you will find that the church is named after St, Dunstan (with an "a" - and NOT an "o"). Good Hunting and Best Wishes ! Roger. --------------------- On 5 Jun 2013, at 14:30, Jan R wrote: > This landed in my inbox but I think it was intended for the list. > Can anyone help Dorothy? > > ________________________________ >> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 12:49:11 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [Ess] East London Cemetery Memorial Inscriptions >> From: rankin@tds.net >> >> I have a Dorinda Chatfield Moss that was born in 1808 unk but is >> buried >> 4 ug 1833 age 25 in St. Dunston, Cheam and I have no idea where >> that is >> except near London???? She and my ggrandfather were married in >> Whitechapel, Mdlsx, England 28 Aug 1821 >> I have searced for Dorinda Chatfield's parentage for over 60+ years, >> even my cousin in England can't find her. >> I am not asking for a look up as I do know that a lot of births back >> then were not recorded and some only in the churches. >> I just want to know where Cheam is?? >> TIA >> Dorothy Moss Smith >> All of my Moss come the East Ham area in Essex and were farriers with >> the exception of my gggrandfather who was a veternarian. >>

This landed in my inbox but I think it was intended for the list. Can anyone help Dorothy? ________________________________ > Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 12:49:11 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Ess] East London Cemetery Memorial Inscriptions > From: rankin@tds.net > > I have a Dorinda Chatfield Moss that was born in 1808 unk but is buried > 4 ug 1833 age 25 in St. Dunston, Cheam and I have no idea where that is > except near London???? She and my ggrandfather were married in > Whitechapel, Mdlsx, England 28 Aug 1821 > I have searced for Dorinda Chatfield's parentage for over 60+ years, > even my cousin in England can't find her. > I am not asking for a look up as I do know that a lot of births back > then were not recorded and some only in the churches. > I just want to know where Cheam is?? > TIA > Dorothy Moss Smith > All of my Moss come the East Ham area in Essex and were farriers with > the exception of my gggrandfather who was a veternarian. > >  > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Jan R  wrote: > Hi Michelle, > > East London Cemetery & Crematorium appears to be owned/managed by a > company called Dignity Funerals nowadays. > > If you don't want to divulge any information at all (even just the > approximate year of death might help someone here to help you), perhaps > it would be best to contact Dignity Funerals or the crematorium itself > to find out what information is available and where. Contact details > for both on the page below. > > www.eastlondoncemetery.co.uk<http://www.eastlondoncemetery.co.uk/> > > Regards, > > Jan > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 17:47:24 +0100 >> From: > historygirl2001-genealogylists@yahoo.co.uk<mailto:historygirl2001-genealogylists@yahoo.co.uk> >> To: Essex-UK@rootsweb.com<mailto:Essex-UK@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: [Ess] East London Cemetery Memorial Inscriptions >> >> Hi all >> >> Thank you for your advice regarding searching for my ancestors in the > East London Cemetery. >> >> I would prefer not to mention personal details of my ancestors on a > public mailing list but I would appreciate it very much if anyone with > access to memorial inscriptions for the East London Cemetery could > please search for information on my ancestors for me. I can email you > further information offlist. >> >> Kind regards. >> >> Michelle >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com<mailto:Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com<mailto:Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message >

Hi Michelle, East London Cemetery & Crematorium appears to be owned/managed by a company called Dignity Funerals nowadays. If you don't want to divulge any information at all (even just the approximate year of death might help someone here to help you), perhaps it would be best to contact Dignity Funerals or the crematorium itself to find out what information is available and where. Contact details for both on the page below. www.eastlondoncemetery.co.uk Regards, Jan ---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 17:47:24 +0100 > From: historygirl2001-genealogylists@yahoo.co.uk > To: Essex-UK@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Ess] East London Cemetery Memorial Inscriptions > > Hi all > > Thank you for your advice regarding searching for my ancestors in the East London Cemetery. > > I would prefer not to mention personal details of my ancestors on a public mailing list but I would appreciate it very much if anyone with access to memorial inscriptions for the East London Cemetery could please search for information on my ancestors for me. I can email you further information offlist. > > Kind regards. > > Michelle > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all Thank you for your advice regarding searching for my ancestors in the East London Cemetery. I would prefer not to mention personal details of my ancestors on a public mailing list but I would appreciate it very much if anyone with access to memorial inscriptions for the East London Cemetery could please search for information on my ancestors for me.  I can email you further information offlist. Kind regards. Michelle

For the records for the City of London Cemetery in Manor Park, the Corporation website appear to be only offering a research service of the early registers. I certainly have searched the register online for a relative but a link doesn't seem to be on the website anymore. Here is a link anyway - https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/burialRegisters/ - it is images only, there is no index. You should be able to 'visit' your relative still but even if there was a gravestone, it may have been removed with newer graves above. Regards June

On 2013/06/01 17:54, M. Connolly wrote: > This is my first posting to the list so please bear with me! I am > researching my family history and I would be grateful if you could please let > me know if there are any books or lists of memorial inscriptions for East > London Cemetery which have been recorded for the 1900s as I have found out > that my ancestors were buried at East London Cemetery from their burial > records but apparently no headstone exists there so I would like to trace the > original memorial inscription. Unlike other parts of the world, headstones and memorial inscriptions are the exception rather than the rule in England. Class and affluence tended to dictate whether or not a headstone ever existed. Most poorer people from the East End tended to be buried in communal plots, and the only records would be the cemetery records giving the burial date and indicating where the location of the plot. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

On 2013/06/01 17:54, M. Connolly wrote: > This is my first posting to the list so please bear with me! I am > researching my family history and I would be grateful if you could please let > me know if there are any books or lists of memorial inscriptions for East > London Cemetery which have been recorded for the 1900s as I have found out > that my ancestors were buried at East London Cemetery from their burial > records but apparently no headstone exists there so I would like to trace the > original memorial inscription. There are three main cemeteries used by residents of the east of London. There's Manor Park Cemetery and Crematorium, City of London Cemetery and Crematorium, and there's Abney Park. If you Google 'London cemeteries', you'll get a lot of information and web sites that you can search. Abney Park records are online at <freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~abneypark/abneyy.html> as are some of the Manor Park records at <www.deceasedonline.com> -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Hi Michelle, and welcome. It would be very helpful if you could tell us (at least) your ancestor's name and date of death (more would be better), and give details of how you know where s/he was buried - i.e. what exactly do you mean by "their burial record" and where did you get it from? How do you know that no headstone is there? Spill the beans! Like all hungry bloodhounds, we rootsweb bods need some real breadcrumbs to sniff. As Joe Walsh's song says, 'we're just looking for clues at the scene of the crime' - i.e. clueless - unless you can tell us where to look? Also, follow Mike's tips for yourself, via Google or Yahoo etc. Good luck, Lawrence On 01/06/2013 16:54, M. Connolly wrote: > Hi all, > > > This is my first posting to the list so please bear with me! I am researching my family history and I would be grateful if you could please let me know if there are any books or lists of memorial inscriptions for East London Cemetery which have been recorded for the 1900s as I have found out that my ancestors were buried at East London Cemetery from their burial records but apparently no headstone exists there so I would like to trace the original memorial inscription. > > Kind regards > > Michelle > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi all, This is my first posting to the list so please bear with me!  I am researching my family history and I would be grateful if you could please let me know if there are any books or lists of memorial inscriptions for East London Cemetery which have been recorded for the 1900s as I have found out that my ancestors were buried at East London Cemetery from their burial records but apparently no headstone exists there so I would like to trace the original memorial inscription. Kind regards Michelle

Found in Romford parish register, D/P 346/1/3 Baptism; Sarah baptised Daughter of Thomas and Mary PARKS of Much Baddow January 1737. Glyn

A big thank you to all who helped me with my query. I now have Thomas's baptism, names of family members and much more information on Thomas and Robert. Rod

Both may be named after Gaddesden in HRT? Lawrence. On 27 May 2013 23:14, "Diane MARGRIE-Sowden" <dpkms20042000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I live in Gadsden Close Cranham Upminster Essex. I was watching the > television channel QUEST last night the FBI CASE FILES and they mentioned > the place Called GADSDEN in America. > > I have checked on the Internet some of the other road names round here ie > Waycross Road and Brunswick Avenue both Waycross and Brunswick are in > America. > > Please does anyone know of the connection between our housing estate and > America please? I would love to know the answer please. > > Diane > > Sent from my iPad > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I should like to thank those who responded to my query on this: Anne, Howard and John. I have been studying the various references, which delayed my reply. Thanks particularly to Howard who was able to point me to a sign on the wall of a house close to the Church, not easy to distinguish on the Google map, which did in fact bear the name "Church Farm". It is now divided into two separate dwellings. I suspect that there is no longer a farm associated with either of the dwellings or if there is it is much smaller than the 210 acres (5 men and two boys) farmed by my ancestor. There is a "Church House" on the maps and on Google but it is much grander than the Church Farm building; it may well be the former vicarage or rectory. Antony