----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH GOODWAY" <keith.goodway@btinternet.com> Subject: [Ess] Re. Details on Certificates I can see the point in witholding death certificate details if someone living would be unduly upset, but I had the reverse situation in my family. Family whispers had it that a member had "had money and property, but drank it all away" - no name ever mentioned. I received a copy of his death certificate quite out of the blue from a contact and found that he had in fact been run over by a train. There was an inquest and accidental death was recorded. Having researched his life as far as possible for the preceeding ten or so years, and the actions of his brothers in the couple of years after his death my understanding of his death is quite different. Instead of the drunken loser he had been portrayed as, in fact he was a man who had endured a lot of personal tragedy in the five or so years prior to his death. I was upset, in fact I cried, when I saw his death certficate and put all of the pieces together, but I was also happy that I had been able to remove the wrong image given to him by family gossip. Barbara

Lawrence wrote: One hypothetical situation where withholding the cause of death might be prudent is if a deceased ancestor's family have always been led to believe that he died of TB or something equally terrible but relatively innocuous, when in fact he died of a STD in rather unsavoury circumstances (shagging all and sundry in a whorehouse, for example). Or perhaps a great-grandmother was long believed to have passed away peacefully, whereas she was in fact attacked in the street, in one way or another, such as rape, and died of her injuries, perhaps in childbirth or after a failed attempt at abortion. Imagine the heartache that could be caused to her descendants if they were to encounter her actual cause of death without some preparation or prior warning. If nothing else, the discovery might lead to years of genealogical research up the wrong tree being binned. I agree, I had just this situation. I knew my grandfather had died relatively young, but I didn't know why or exactly where. My mother (who was only 12 when he died) only remembered that he had been in hospital "a long time" when he died. I sent for his death certificate and found that he died in a mental hospital of "General Paralysis". I discovered this was then a general term for Syphilis. I didn't tell my mother, who by them was a very old lady, as it would have distressed her. I later met, for the first time, my uncle, who had lived overseas since before I was born. Although he was by then 89. he had a very sharp and good memory. I asked him about various members of the family - and he was able to give me a lot of information. He just remembered his father's funeral (he was only 4), although he didn't remember ever seeing his father. He told me that the women of the family (his mother and his two sisters, who were overseas with him) never spoke of his father, and he had the impression that his father was not popular with them. I was electrified when he then added "I have wondered if he died of Syphilis" ! I didn't enlighten him, but just said something non-commital. After all, it might have cast doubt on his own paternity ! Keith

Thanks - that does help. Not sure there's a lot there for me - but we'll see. Anne On 2 Aug 2008, at 11:44, Andy Hedgcock wrote: > I just signed up and managed to see the freebie stuff. Bought > nothing from their store. > HTH > Andy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anne Peat > To: rootsweb essex > Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 10:52 AM > Subject: [Ess] Fwd: Free Genealogy Online > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: Anne Peat <anne.peat@bigwindows.demon.co.uk> > > Date: 2 August 2008 10:52:02 BST > > To: George Jones <englishsurnames@hotmail.co.uk> > > Subject: Re: [Ess] Free Genealogy Online > > > > But it's not free to see - you have to buy from their online store. > > Or have I missed something? > >

I just signed up and managed to see the freebie stuff. Bought nothing from their store. HTH Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: Anne Peat To: rootsweb essex Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 10:52 AM Subject: [Ess] Fwd: Free Genealogy Online Begin forwarded message: > From: Anne Peat <anne.peat@bigwindows.demon.co.uk> > Date: 2 August 2008 10:52:02 BST > To: George Jones <englishsurnames@hotmail.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [Ess] Free Genealogy Online > > But it's not free to see - you have to buy from their online store. > Or have I missed something? > > Anne > On 2 Aug 2008, at 07:27, George Jones wrote: > >> >> Free Genealogy Onlinehttp://www.free-genealogy-online.net >> What is available on FREE GENEALOGY ONLINE - ENGLANDmuch more to >> come in the very near future >> >> >> >> >> >> >> MIDDLESEX Marriages:ActonAll Hallows - >> TottenhamAshfordCowleyEalingEdmontonEnfieldFelthamFinchleyGreat >> StanmoreGreenfordHamptonHanwellHanworthHarfieldHarlingtonHestonHillingdonHayes >> HounslowIckenhamMonkton HadleyNew BrentfordNortholtPinnerSouth >> MimmsStanwellSunburyTeddingtonTwickenhamUxbridgeWest Drayton >> ESSEX MarriagesAshdonBoxtedGreat HorkesleyLittle >> HorkesleyNavestockWormingford >> KENT MarriagesCharlton in >> DoverEynsfordHalsteadLamberhurstNewingtonPenshurstStaplehurstWesterhamWestfarleighWichlingWillesborough >> BERKSHIRE MarriagesBradfield, 1559-1812Buscot, 1676-1812 Harwell, >> 1559-1837 Kingston Lisle, 1560-1837Purley, 1662-1840Sparsholt, >> 1559-1812Sulham, 1723-1837Wantage, 1538-1837West Hendred, >> 1558-1837West Woodhay, 1653-1812 West Hanney, 1564-1837 >> SUFFOLK Marriages AshbyCapel St MaryCombsDunwich St >> PeterExningFressingfieldGreat WenhamGrundisburghHoxneLittle >> WenhamMartleshamMendhamMetfield MickfieldRisbySomer >> LeytonSylehamThrandestonWeybridgeWithersdaleWoodbridge >> >> >> >> LONDONLondon Marriage Licences 1521-1869St Lawrence, JewryParish >> Registers 1538-1812St Mary Mounthaw 1568-1849All Hallows >> 1538-1837Honey Lane 1546-1837 >> GLOUCESTERSHIRE Burials IndexWills IndexPhillimores Marriages >> STAFFORDSHIREPedigrees >> BUCKINGHAMSHIRE Marriages Amersham 1561-1812, Chalfont St Giles >> 1584-1812, Chalfont St Peter 1538-1812,Chenies 1593-1836, Chicheley >> 1559-1812, Drayton Parslow 1559-1812,Grove 1711-1812, Hartwell >> 1553-1812, Hedgerley 1539-1812Linsdale 1575-1812, Sherington >> 1688-1812, St Leonards 1739-1754, Stoke Poges 1563-1812;Stone >> 1538-1812,Westbury 1558-1812Wing 1546-1812; >> CORNWALL Marriages Gwithian 1560-1812St Buryan 1654-1812St Just in >> Penwith 1599-1812St Levan 1694-1812St Sennen 1699-1812Towednack >> 1676-1812 >> NOTTINGHAMSHIRE MarriagesAwsworth 1756-1812Barton in Fabris >> 1558-1812Clifton 1573-1812Cossall 1663-1812Edwalton >> 1538-1812Greasley 1600-1812Keyworth 1657-1812Nuthall >> 1663-1812Ratcliffe on Soar 1624-1812Ruddington 1653-1813Stapleford >> 1656-1812Strelley 1665-1812Thrumpton 1679-1812Trowell 1570-1812West >> Bridgford 1559-1812Wilford 1657-1812Willoughby on the Woulds >> 1682-1812Wollaton 1576-1812Wysall 1654-1812 >> CHESHIREAlderley 169-1837Bosley 1729-1750Capesthorne >> 1722-1747Chelford 1674-1752Marton 1563-1769Siddington 1722-1783Pott >> Shrigley 1685-1751Taxal 1813-1837LEICESTERSHIREBarkston >> 1569-1837Plungar 195-1837Knipton 1562-1837Croxton Kerrial >> 1558-1837Harston 1707-1837Harston 1707-1837Branston 1591-1839Eaton >> 1724-1837Stathern 1567-1837Harby 1700-1837Hose 1688-1837Redmile >> 1653-1837 >> CAMBRIDGESHIRECambridge All Saints 1539-1837Croxton >> 1538-1837Eltisley 1599-1837Elsworth 1538-1837Graveley >> 1599-1837Papworth St Agnes 1558-1837Papworth Everard 1565-1837 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Begin forwarded message: > From: Anne Peat <anne.peat@bigwindows.demon.co.uk> > Date: 2 August 2008 10:52:02 BST > To: George Jones <englishsurnames@hotmail.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [Ess] Free Genealogy Online > > But it's not free to see - you have to buy from their online store. > Or have I missed something? > > Anne > On 2 Aug 2008, at 07:27, George Jones wrote: > >> >> Free Genealogy Onlinehttp://www.free-genealogy-online.net >> What is available on FREE GENEALOGY ONLINE - ENGLANDmuch more to >> come in the very near future >> >> >> >> >> >> >> MIDDLESEX Marriages:ActonAll Hallows - >> TottenhamAshfordCowleyEalingEdmontonEnfieldFelthamFinchleyGreat >> StanmoreGreenfordHamptonHanwellHanworthHarfieldHarlingtonHestonHillingdonHayes >> HounslowIckenhamMonkton HadleyNew BrentfordNortholtPinnerSouth >> MimmsStanwellSunburyTeddingtonTwickenhamUxbridgeWest Drayton >> ESSEX MarriagesAshdonBoxtedGreat HorkesleyLittle >> HorkesleyNavestockWormingford >> KENT MarriagesCharlton in >> DoverEynsfordHalsteadLamberhurstNewingtonPenshurstStaplehurstWesterhamWestfarleighWichlingWillesborough >> BERKSHIRE MarriagesBradfield, 1559-1812Buscot, 1676-1812 Harwell, >> 1559-1837 Kingston Lisle, 1560-1837Purley, 1662-1840Sparsholt, >> 1559-1812Sulham, 1723-1837Wantage, 1538-1837West Hendred, >> 1558-1837West Woodhay, 1653-1812 West Hanney, 1564-1837 >> SUFFOLK Marriages AshbyCapel St MaryCombsDunwich St >> PeterExningFressingfieldGreat WenhamGrundisburghHoxneLittle >> WenhamMartleshamMendhamMetfield MickfieldRisbySomer >> LeytonSylehamThrandestonWeybridgeWithersdaleWoodbridge >> >> >> >> LONDONLondon Marriage Licences 1521-1869St Lawrence, JewryParish >> Registers 1538-1812St Mary Mounthaw 1568-1849All Hallows >> 1538-1837Honey Lane 1546-1837 >> GLOUCESTERSHIRE Burials IndexWills IndexPhillimores Marriages >> STAFFORDSHIREPedigrees >> BUCKINGHAMSHIRE Marriages Amersham 1561-1812, Chalfont St Giles >> 1584-1812, Chalfont St Peter 1538-1812,Chenies 1593-1836, Chicheley >> 1559-1812, Drayton Parslow 1559-1812,Grove 1711-1812, Hartwell >> 1553-1812, Hedgerley 1539-1812Linsdale 1575-1812, Sherington >> 1688-1812, St Leonards 1739-1754, Stoke Poges 1563-1812;Stone >> 1538-1812,Westbury 1558-1812Wing 1546-1812; >> CORNWALL Marriages Gwithian 1560-1812St Buryan 1654-1812St Just in >> Penwith 1599-1812St Levan 1694-1812St Sennen 1699-1812Towednack >> 1676-1812 >> NOTTINGHAMSHIRE MarriagesAwsworth 1756-1812Barton in Fabris >> 1558-1812Clifton 1573-1812Cossall 1663-1812Edwalton >> 1538-1812Greasley 1600-1812Keyworth 1657-1812Nuthall >> 1663-1812Ratcliffe on Soar 1624-1812Ruddington 1653-1813Stapleford >> 1656-1812Strelley 1665-1812Thrumpton 1679-1812Trowell 1570-1812West >> Bridgford 1559-1812Wilford 1657-1812Willoughby on the Woulds >> 1682-1812Wollaton 1576-1812Wysall 1654-1812 >> CHESHIREAlderley 169-1837Bosley 1729-1750Capesthorne >> 1722-1747Chelford 1674-1752Marton 1563-1769Siddington 1722-1783Pott >> Shrigley 1685-1751Taxal 1813-1837LEICESTERSHIREBarkston >> 1569-1837Plungar 195-1837Knipton 1562-1837Croxton Kerrial >> 1558-1837Harston 1707-1837Harston 1707-1837Branston 1591-1839Eaton >> 1724-1837Stathern 1567-1837Harby 1700-1837Hose 1688-1837Redmile >> 1653-1837 >> CAMBRIDGESHIRECambridge All Saints 1539-1837Croxton >> 1538-1837Eltisley 1599-1837Elsworth 1538-1837Graveley >> 1599-1837Papworth St Agnes 1558-1837Papworth Everard 1565-1837

----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH GOODWAY" <keith.goodway@btinternet.com> Subject: [Ess] Re. Details on Certificates Well I have no idea what is on my great grandmother's death certificate. Perhaps I should buy it just to see. I made contact with someone in America who turned out to be a distant cousin (not sure how distant as I'm not clued up on ancestral titles) but her gt. grandfather was the brother of my great grandmother. Anyway, she wrote to me with details that she was aware of in her family and added this snippet: "Oh, and your great grandmother was done for murder". Well, that was a shock to say the least. My dad (now deceased), whose grandmother it was, always used to say there was 'madness' in the family but rarely spoke about the family. And this shocking detail was never spoken about by him or anyone else in the family. In fact I don't know if he ever knew about it - if he did he kept it a secret. Of course I wanted to know more about this story and went to the local library and found on my first hit a full front page report on the 'murder' way back in 1918. It was strange seeing all the names that I recognised as being on my tree, and also known as they were part of my dad's family. Apparently my great grandmother strangled her baby granddaughter. A tragic, sad case which makes horrific reading, must have been terrible for the whole family and the neighbourhood. But it does come over in the report that my gt. grandmother had just come out of the local mental hospital that day - after a period of 10 weeks - and that she seemed confused etc. She was of previous good character, a loving mother etc. I do believe at the age of 57 she was affected by her sons going to war, the poverty the family was enduring, she'd lost 2 babies herself late in life, and she was possibly going through the menopause which probably wasn't recognised or treated in those days. The case went to Essex Assizes and I found that she was declared unfit to stand, declared insane and sent to Warley Asylum. That was a grim place and she lived there until she was in her 80s. What a dreadful existence it must have been. Her daughter apparently ended up there too possibly unable to cope with what her mother had done. The daughter's sister never had children - I wonder if it was because of what had occurred? All in all a very sad case. Would I have been able to tell my dad about this? I have no idea. I view things differently to him and knowing all about this case is not a problem to me. It happened and she obviously was't well. Lots of events happened in families in the 'old' days which wouldn't happen now. Many things were kept under the carpet because of stigma etc. and many situations were controlled by the social services and other institutions e.g. children ending up in orphanges or sent far away overseas which wouldn't happen these days. So, in conclusion, I suppose cause of death could be withheld and provided only if asked for. What suits one, doesn't always suit another. Regards Diana

Carolyn Perkes wrote: > Perhaps there is a middle ground. > > I recently shared some information about causes of death of a common > ancestor with a cousin. . . whose mother had just died of the same > illness. The information came too late, certainly not at the right > time. Well, it confirmed things after the fact. I found the > information helpful, but I do realize that it is not helpful to every > one of my distant relations. > > Perhaps it would be easier, on these lists, if people establish a > connection, to share such information privately; at least it allows > people to make judgment calls. . . This is why I say there shouldn't be a blanket ban. If people want to give out CoD then fine, but if people don't, then that's fine too.

Free Genealogy Onlinehttp://www.free-genealogy-online.net What is available on FREE GENEALOGY ONLINE - ENGLANDmuch more to come in the very near future MIDDLESEX Marriages:ActonAll Hallows - TottenhamAshfordCowleyEalingEdmontonEnfieldFelthamFinchleyGreat StanmoreGreenfordHamptonHanwellHanworthHarfieldHarlingtonHestonHillingdonHayes HounslowIckenhamMonkton HadleyNew BrentfordNortholtPinnerSouth MimmsStanwellSunburyTeddingtonTwickenhamUxbridgeWest Drayton ESSEX MarriagesAshdonBoxtedGreat HorkesleyLittle HorkesleyNavestockWormingford KENT MarriagesCharlton in DoverEynsfordHalsteadLamberhurstNewingtonPenshurstStaplehurstWesterhamWestfarleighWichlingWillesborough BERKSHIRE MarriagesBradfield, 1559-1812Buscot, 1676-1812 Harwell, 1559-1837 Kingston Lisle, 1560-1837Purley, 1662-1840Sparsholt, 1559-1812Sulham, 1723-1837Wantage, 1538-1837West Hendred, 1558-1837West Woodhay, 1653-1812 West Hanney, 1564-1837 SUFFOLK Marriages AshbyCapel St MaryCombsDunwich St PeterExningFressingfieldGreat WenhamGrundisburghHoxneLittle WenhamMartleshamMendhamMetfield MickfieldRisbySomer LeytonSylehamThrandestonWeybridgeWithersdaleWoodbridge LONDONLondon Marriage Licences 1521-1869St Lawrence, JewryParish Registers 1538-1812St Mary Mounthaw 1568-1849All Hallows 1538-1837Honey Lane 1546-1837 GLOUCESTERSHIRE Burials IndexWills IndexPhillimores Marriages STAFFORDSHIREPedigrees BUCKINGHAMSHIRE Marriages Amersham 1561-1812, Chalfont St Giles 1584-1812, Chalfont St Peter 1538-1812,Chenies 1593-1836, Chicheley 1559-1812, Drayton Parslow 1559-1812,Grove 1711-1812, Hartwell 1553-1812, Hedgerley 1539-1812Linsdale 1575-1812, Sherington 1688-1812, St Leonards 1739-1754, Stoke Poges 1563-1812;Stone 1538-1812,Westbury 1558-1812Wing 1546-1812; CORNWALL Marriages Gwithian 1560-1812St Buryan 1654-1812St Just in Penwith 1599-1812St Levan 1694-1812St Sennen 1699-1812Towednack 1676-1812 NOTTINGHAMSHIRE MarriagesAwsworth 1756-1812Barton in Fabris 1558-1812Clifton 1573-1812Cossall 1663-1812Edwalton 1538-1812Greasley 1600-1812Keyworth 1657-1812Nuthall 1663-1812Ratcliffe on Soar 1624-1812Ruddington 1653-1813Stapleford 1656-1812Strelley 1665-1812Thrumpton 1679-1812Trowell 1570-1812West Bridgford 1559-1812Wilford 1657-1812Willoughby on the Woulds 1682-1812Wollaton 1576-1812Wysall 1654-1812 CHESHIREAlderley 169-1837Bosley 1729-1750Capesthorne 1722-1747Chelford 1674-1752Marton 1563-1769Siddington 1722-1783Pott Shrigley 1685-1751Taxal 1813-1837LEICESTERSHIREBarkston 1569-1837Plungar 195-1837Knipton 1562-1837Croxton Kerrial 1558-1837Harston 1707-1837Harston 1707-1837Branston 1591-1839Eaton 1724-1837Stathern 1567-1837Harby 1700-1837Hose 1688-1837Redmile 1653-1837 CAMBRIDGESHIRECambridge All Saints 1539-1837Croxton 1538-1837Eltisley 1599-1837Elsworth 1538-1837Graveley 1599-1837Papworth St Agnes 1558-1837Papworth Everard 1565-1837 _________________________________________________________________ Discover the new Windows Vista http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

Firebird wrote: > Martin Goose wrote: > >> Recognising the possible sensitivities of descendants/relations. > > Surely, if you've shared your research with your family they will > already know the causes of death for those ancestors. If you haven't > then it's irrelevant. I imagine everyone on the mailing list has come > across just about every possible cause of death there is. When I said descendants/relations I was not limiting it to my own. I was also covering one name studies where you do not know those involved. In general I support the line that it is public information and can have all the beneficial uses mentioned in other posts. However I think that some discretion may need to be exercised with cause of death. My own published researches are limited to names, dates and places of birth, marriage and death. See <http://www.thegoosefamily.plus.com/fh/>

-----Original Message----- >Sorry, but I can see no reason why family historians or genealogists should be coy about causes of death. Nor do I see any reason for a blanket ban on giving causes of death on list either. Martin wasn't stating that a blanket ban must be imposed upon the list; he merely suggested that there might be room for a little tact if we are to post details of Essex death certs onto the list. In other words, he was inviting discussion on the subject, not ramming it down anyone's throat. Neither should a policy of describing every gory detail across the board be imposed on the list unless that is what we all agree to in discussion, and then only with our moderator's approval. One hypothetical situation where withholding the cause of death might be prudent is if a deceased ancestor's family have always been led to believe that he died of TB or something equally terrible but relatively innocuous, when in fact he died of a STD in rather unsavoury circumstances (shagging all and sundry in a whorehouse, for example). Or perhaps a great-grandmother was long believed to have passed away peacefully, whereas she was in fact attacked in the street, in one way or another, such as rape, and died of her injuries, perhaps in childbirth or after a failed attempt at abortion. Imagine the heartache that could be caused to her descendants if they were to encounter her actual cause of death without some preparation or prior warning. If nothing else, the discovery might lead to years of genealogical research up the wrong tree being binned. If either of these people were my ancestor, I would want to know the truth, but I wouldn't want to find out via a message board! Ideally, I would be able to follow the story of what really happened piece by piece, step by step, rather than being hit in the face with a wet fish. And I would want to be able to control how, when, and in what way, my living relatives had the news broken to them. Perhaps one way forward might be to include causes of death only where the death occurred more than a century ago, in rough keeping with other forms of data filtering/control. But I'm not convinced that this would work. In the end, as this list is (IMHO - am I wrong?) primarily a channel of help and advice to point us in the right direction, then surely all we really need in the first instance is the date and place of the death, so that we can then go and check out the registers or buy the certificate and research the nitty-gritty stuff for ourselves. As well as the cause of death, this may well also include names of informants, any addresses stated, any relatives present, the doctor's name, and so on. Can we really expect to have ALL this very interesting but peripheral data posted as well, or should we make the postings as convenient and useful as possible by streamlining them down to the bare essentials? In other words, practicality may be another reason for excluding the cause of death, and that has nothing to do with coyness. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. On the whole, this is a great list, one of the best. Lawrence No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date: 01/08/2008 18:59

J. Buck wrote: > This thread is really interesting. > > Having had to have a mastoid operation at 10 months old, I wondered if > this was hereditary. I sent for a death certificate of a great Aunt and > was amazed to find that she died of a double mastoid in 1943. I'm now > having trouble with my *good* ear, but thankfully modern medication is > dealing with it. This is precisely my point. Although there's nothing to suggest it's a genetic (inheritable) condition, it would seem to be something that may run in your family. If you weren't a family historian, you'd be none the wiser. I'm very pleased that modern medication is helping you :)) I recently discovered that both my paternal grandmother's parents died as a result of diabetes. There was a potential risk factor involved because it was both of them, so I had a talk with my doctor. He told me that it was probably Type 1 and that the risk to my sister and to me was very likely low. A simple test has put us in the clear. My father died young as a result of a heart attack so I don't know whether he might have developed diabetes later on. I have a cousin who's an haemophiliac. His sister is a carrier as was their mother. This is what people know and understand about haemophilia but did you know that it can also occur spontaneously as well? I didn't and was very puzzled when I discovered that was the cause of death for another cousin. It didn't appear in his parents or in any of the previous generations and it didn't appear in his children or in his siblings or their children. The two cousins in question are on different lines and there's no known connection between them.

This thread is really interesting. Having had to have a mastoid operation at 10 months old, I wondered if this was hereditary. I sent for a death certificate of a great Aunt and was amazed to find that she died of a double mastoid in 1943. I'm now having trouble with my *good* ear, but thankfully modern medication is dealing with it. Jan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Firebird" <sparrer@gmail.com> To: <ESSEX-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [Ess] Details from Certificates > Martin Goose wrote: > >> Recognising the possible sensitivities of descendants/relations. > > Surely, if you've shared your research with your family they will already > know the causes of death for those ancestors. If you haven't then it's > irrelevant. I imagine everyone on the mailing list has come across just > about every possible cause of death there is. > > Another consideration is that if you give the cause of death, it can > actually help someone with the same condition. For instance, my husband > didn't know his father's cause of death until I told him. When I did, it > made sense of a condition he has. > > Amongst the causes of death given for some of my ancestors and sundry > other relatives include hanging (did kill himself), carbon monoxide > poisoning, drowning, syphilis, TB, consumption, heart disease, Act of God, > coronory thrombosis, brain tumour, cancer, nephritis, murder (by > strangulation), diabetes, anasarca, epilepsy, haemophilia, RTA and drug > overdose. > > Being sensitive is one thing. Being hypersensitive or over-sensitive is > another. It's better to let your relations and descendents decide for > themselves what they want to know, rather than decide for them. If given a > chance, they might just be interested. > > Sorry, but I can see no reason why family historians or genealogists > should be coy about causes of death. Nor do I see any reason for a > blanket ban on giving causes of death on list either. > >

Martin Goose wrote: > Recognising the possible sensitivities of descendants/relations. Surely, if you've shared your research with your family they will already know the causes of death for those ancestors. If you haven't then it's irrelevant. I imagine everyone on the mailing list has come across just about every possible cause of death there is. Another consideration is that if you give the cause of death, it can actually help someone with the same condition. For instance, my husband didn't know his father's cause of death until I told him. When I did, it made sense of a condition he has. Amongst the causes of death given for some of my ancestors and sundry other relatives include hanging (did kill himself), carbon monoxide poisoning, drowning, syphilis, TB, consumption, heart disease, Act of God, coronory thrombosis, brain tumour, cancer, nephritis, murder (by strangulation), diabetes, anasarca, epilepsy, haemophilia, RTA and drug overdose. Being sensitive is one thing. Being hypersensitive or over-sensitive is another. It's better to let your relations and descendents decide for themselves what they want to know, rather than decide for them. If given a chance, they might just be interested. Sorry, but I can see no reason why family historians or genealogists should be coy about causes of death. Nor do I see any reason for a blanket ban on giving causes of death on list either.

On 1-Aug-08, at 4:15 PM, Firebird wrote: > Martin Goose wrote: > >> Recognising the possible sensitivities of descendants/relations. > > Surely, if you've shared your research with your family they will > already know the causes of death for those ancestors. If you haven't > then it's irrelevant. I imagine everyone on the mailing list has come > across just about every possible cause of death there is. > > Another consideration is that if you give the cause of death, it can > actually help someone with the same condition. For instance, my > husband didn't know his father's cause of death until I told him. > When I did, it made sense of a condition he has. > > Amongst the causes of death given for some of my ancestors and sundry > other relatives include hanging (did kill himself), carbon monoxide > poisoning, drowning, syphilis, TB, consumption, heart disease, Act of > God, coronory thrombosis, brain tumour, cancer, nephritis, murder (by > strangulation), diabetes, anasarca, epilepsy, haemophilia, RTA and > drug overdose. > > Being sensitive is one thing. Being hypersensitive or over-sensitive > is another. It's better to let your relations and descendents decide > for themselves what they want to know, rather than decide for them. > If given a chance, they might just be interested. > > Sorry, but I can see no reason why family historians or genealogists > should be coy about causes of death. Nor do I see any reason for a > blanket ban on giving causes of death on list either. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Perhaps there is a middle ground. I recently shared some information about causes of death of a common ancestor with a cousin. . . whose mother had just died of the same illness. The information came too late, certainly not at the right time. Well, it confirmed things after the fact. I found the information helpful, but I do realize that it is not helpful to every one of my distant relations. Perhaps it would be easier, on these lists, if people establish a connection, to share such information privately; at least it allows people to make judgment calls. . . fwiw Carolyn

----- Original Message ----- From: "Celia Renshaw" <celia@morganhold.com> Subject: [Ess] TYLER death certs If you go to http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ and put Cann Hall in search, it will give you a rough idea of where Manby Road would have been. Although there is a Cann Hall Road, Cann Hall was also a district. Barbara

Thanks Elmo, I had not realised that was an option. I cannot recall seeing the envelopes but will have a look now. Great idea. Pam in Brisbane Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Elmo Eldridge" <Elmo@aphelia.co.uk> To: <Essex-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [Ess] Details from Certificates If you are very lucky and look at the entry in the FreeBMD index you may find a "Postem" with the details or a contact for someone who has a copy of the certificate. The existence of a Postem is indicated by an Envelope icon after the Info and Scan (spectacles) icons. The more Postems that are there the more likely it is you will find the details before having to purchase the certificate. So I strongly suggest that everyone who has used FreeBMD and then purchased the certificate adds the additional details to the database as a Postem (for Marriage Certificates there will two entries to add them.) Leaving your contact details on the entries for your ancestors is a good way of alerting potential cousins who are quite likely to be related if they are searching for the same people. Posting the details of any Essex-related certificates to the mailing list is also encouraged. Regards Elmo.

Hi Celia, Manbey Road is in Stratford, originally in the West Ham parish - see : http://historyofstratford.co.uk/StratfordHistory/Stratford-1902.shtml ; for example. There are a range of old maps to be found here: http://londonpublichouse.com/MapsofLondon.shtml But you should be able to locate Manbey Road in a modern map. Best Kevan -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Celia Renshaw Sent: 01 August 2008 16:52 To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [Ess] TYLER death certs On invitation to post certificate details, here are the sad stories of my great-grandparents. I would be deeply grateful for advice on location of Manby Road, where Phillippe died and where his oldest son, my grandfather, Walter Henry TYLER, first met his future wife Alice Maud BONHAM (they lived next door to each other), though they didn't marry until 10 years and a world war later. I can't locate a Manby Road on a modern map and haven't yet stretched to buying an older one. As always, would love to hear from anyone with TYLER or MORRIS interests in West Ham. Cheers Celia Renshaw in Chesterfield UK Registration District West Ham 1803 Death in the Sub-district of South Leyton in the County of Essex No. 146 Thirtieth January 1903 at 37 Manby Road, Cann Hall, Leyton U.D. Phillipe William TYLER Male age 39 years Occupation Commercial Clerk Cause of death: Pneumonia, Certified by W Francis MRCS Informant: M.E. TYLER, widow of deceased present at the death of 37 Manby Road, Cann Hall Reg Thirty-first January 1903 Registrar: E M Hall Copy date 10 Apr 2003 Poor Mary Eliza (nee MORRIS) was pregnant with her 8th child and had 6 other youngsters to worry about when Phillippe died so young, and just 3 and a half months later... REGISTRATION DISTRICT: West Ham 1903 DEATH in the Sub-district of South Leyton in the County of Essex No. 55 When & Where: Nineteenth May 1903, Union Workhouse Leytonstone, Leyton, U.D. Name: Mary TYLER Sex: Female Age: 39 years Occupation: Widow of Philippe William TYLER, Shipping Clerk of 37 Manby Road, Cann Hall Cause of death: Pregnancy; Eclampsia; Childbirth - 2 hours. Certified by H. Hall, L.R.C.P. Informant: J F MORRIS, Brother, 22 Brent Road, Custom House Registered: Twentieth May 1903 Registrar: Edw. Hall Copy dated: 27 Mar 2007 Presumably she was in the Workhouse infirmary but archives tell me documents for that date haven't survived :( Prior to this double tragedy the TYLER family had been fairly comfortably placed - never so again!! The young children left behind were farmed out among Mary Eliza's MORRIS relatives who were also living nearby in West Ham and Stratford, dock workers and leather workers/farriers mostly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On invitation to post certificate details, here are the sad stories of my great-grandparents. I would be deeply grateful for advice on location of Manby Road, where Phillippe died and where his oldest son, my grandfather, Walter Henry TYLER, first met his future wife Alice Maud BONHAM (they lived next door to each other), though they didn't marry until 10 years and a world war later. I can't locate a Manby Road on a modern map and haven't yet stretched to buying an older one. As always, would love to hear from anyone with TYLER or MORRIS interests in West Ham. Cheers Celia Renshaw in Chesterfield UK Registration District West Ham 1803 Death in the Sub-district of South Leyton in the County of Essex No. 146 Thirtieth January 1903 at 37 Manby Road, Cann Hall, Leyton U.D. Phillipe William TYLER Male age 39 years Occupation Commercial Clerk Cause of death: Pneumonia, Certified by W Francis MRCS Informant: M.E. TYLER, widow of deceased present at the death of 37 Manby Road, Cann Hall Reg Thirty-first January 1903 Registrar: E M Hall Copy date 10 Apr 2003 Poor Mary Eliza (nee MORRIS) was pregnant with her 8th child and had 6 other youngsters to worry about when Phillippe died so young, and just 3 and a half months later... REGISTRATION DISTRICT: West Ham 1903 DEATH in the Sub-district of South Leyton in the County of Essex No. 55 When & Where: Nineteenth May 1903, Union Workhouse Leytonstone, Leyton, U.D. Name: Mary TYLER Sex: Female Age: 39 years Occupation: Widow of Philippe William TYLER, Shipping Clerk of 37 Manby Road, Cann Hall Cause of death: Pregnancy; Eclampsia; Childbirth - 2 hours. Certified by H. Hall, L.R.C.P. Informant: J F MORRIS, Brother, 22 Brent Road, Custom House Registered: Twentieth May 1903 Registrar: Edw. Hall Copy dated: 27 Mar 2007 Presumably she was in the Workhouse infirmary but archives tell me documents for that date haven't survived :( Prior to this double tragedy the TYLER family had been fairly comfortably placed - never so again!! The young children left behind were farmed out among Mary Eliza's MORRIS relatives who were also living nearby in West Ham and Stratford, dock workers and leather workers/farriers mostly.

Posted with permission from Keith Taken from the Leaflet "Welcome to The Essex Reord Office 2008" ==== Many of the following events need to be booked in advance. Where a discount is shown for concessions it is only available to those with an ES40 or a NUS card. Family Day A day for children to bring their mums and dads (and grandparents, aunts, uncles…) to the Record Office and discover just how much fun history can be. This family day has calligraphy as its theme, so prepare for an illuminating experience! Friday 15th August, 10.30am - 3.00pm. Searchroom Tours This thirty minute tour will show you how to get the very best from the Record Office’s Searchroom – it’s ideal if you are just starting your research or perhaps want to go beyond using microfiche and microfilm. Tours start at 9.30am on Wednesday 17th September, Saturday 11th October, Wednesday 12th November, and Saturday 6th December. Family History for Beginners Are you keen to trace the history of your family, but don’t know where to begin? Then this short course is for you. From civil registration to parish registers, via the census and other specialist records, these sessions will explain where to begin, and how to continue, with your family history. Three consecutive weekly sessions, starting on Monday 22nd September, 10.30am - 12.00 noon. Treasures of the Record Office Our collection, which covers over six miles of shelves, includes many thousands of fascinating items. Join one of our Archivists for this opportunity to see some of the most interesting, beautiful and precious items in our care. Friday 26th September, 10.30am - 12.00 noon. Discover: House History Have you ever wondered about the history of your home? This session will enable you to begin to discover the history of your house, or other buildings, using the Record Office’s vast resources. Tuesday 7th October, 2.00pm - 4.00pm. In the Footsteps of a Witchfinder: A Manningtree Walk Join this walk and discover Manningtree as it would have been seen by the Matthew Hopkins, infamous Witchfinder General. Thursday 30th October at 2.30pm. Sad Shires and Bugles: A One Day Conference Considering the First World War As the ninetieth anniversary of the Armistice approaches, it is an appropriate time to review the history and effects of the First World War. Saturday 1st November, 10.00am - 4.30pm. Discover: Guardians’ Records Ideal for family historians and other researchers, this session will guide you through what Guardian’s records are, the information that they contain and how to access them. Tuesday 18th November, 2.00pm - 4.00pm. ==== To download the leaflet, check prices, make bookings or contact the ERO http://www.essexcc.gov.uk/vip8/ecc/ECCWebsite/dis/gui.jsp?channelOid=13813&guideOid=18311 If the link is too long, http://www.essex.gov.uk/ Using the "A-Z of Council Services", select E Scroll down to "Essex Record Office" Finally choose "What's On at the Record Office" the link to download is on the right Hope someone finds something of interest :-) Heather

Try using http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/places/ then Download the Place Name Index In your case, Claybury asylum was in Woodford Bridge, Essex so it was covered by West Ham from 1837-1935 and then Essex South Western until 1965. After that, it came under Redbridge. Woodford ESS 1837 1935 West Ham Woodford ESS 1935 1965 Essex South Western after 1965 see Redbridge (GTL) Hope this helps Heather PS I have the page bookmarked it is so useful :-) Anndriscoll@aol.com wrote: > Hi list, can someone please tell me in which registration district a death > would have been recorded if the death occurred in Claybury Asylum c 1925? > Also, where would the burial likely to have taken place? > > Are there any records surviving of the patients who were at the Asylum? > > Thanks > > Ann >