Hi all, I've recently come across a Will for a chap called John Lucas from 1700. It caught my eye because one of the witness was a Thomas Pottrell. The surname Lucas pops up in another Will for Thomas Pottrell from the 1760's. The problem I have is that in 1700, Thomas would have only been around 13. Would that have been old enough to act as a Witness? Tony

Thank you to all who replied to my post on the Royal Family. I am greatful for all the help. Shelley

Hi Shelley, Their names were Adolphus, Francis and Alexander. Queen Mary was originally Mary of Teck so if you google that you should be able to find out their titles. I've got a book which should give it but can I find it?? I'll post later if I do. Cheers Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: Shelley Cameron To: Essex-UK-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [Ess] The Royal Family: It was the name of Queen Mary's brother I am searching for, not her half brother, and apparently she had three brothers. Would anyone know what their names were. I did Google it but did not find much. Shelley ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My "Heritage" cd gives the following brothers Adolphus Duke of Teck, Marquess of Cambridge b13 Aug 1868, d24 Oct1927 Francis Joseph Prince of Teck b 9 Jan 1870, d22 Oct1910 Alexander of Teck, 1st Earl of Athlone b14 Apr 1874, d16 Jan 1957 -- Mike Stone - Peterborough, England For the strength of the hills we bless thee, Our God, our fathers' God. Thou hast made thy children mighty, By the touch of the mountain sod. Thou hast led thy chosen Israel To freedom's last abode. For the strength of the hills we bless thee, Our God, our fathers' God. (Hymns of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, No 35)

It was the name of Queen Mary's brother I am searching for, not her half brother, and apparently she had three brothers. Would anyone know what their names were. I did Google it but did not find much. Shelley

Would anyone happen to know Who Queen Elizabeth Grandmother ( Queen Mary ) half brother was ? I have just learned that a distant cousin was his Valet. Shelley

I have a family where three of the children were given the same first name but had different middle names. All were known (on censuses at least) by their middle names. Don't know where the first name came from - nothing unusual but not a long standing family name either. Why they weren't just given different first names, I don't know. Heather Tony Pottrell wrote: > Although the suggestion from Brad and Firebird is the most likely, > there's also a small chance that the older sarah did die and was either > buried in another church or the burial records for Harwich may not be > complete. > > T > > Diane wynne wrote: > >> I've been trawling through the parish registers of Harwich and have found >> the baptisms of the following children: >> >> Sarah daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised November 5 1764 >> Sarah Maria daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised December 3 1766 >> >> There is no burial record for the first Sarah and the family didn't move >> away from Harwich. >> Also there was only one set of parents called Henry and Sarah at the time. >> >> The question is, how likely is it that parents would have two living >> children, one called Sarah and one called Sarah Maria? >> >> Thanks >> Diane

Hi David, Take a look at this website: _http://members.aol.com/Jillchmbrs/homepages.html_ (http://members.aol.com/Jillchmbrs/homepages.html) Click on 'Swing Rioters in Esssex'. Apparently the book by Jill Chambers is good to get as she gives a full account of the riots and names a lot of the rioters in there and details their 'crimes' and sentences. Regards Diana Re: I am reading an account of the struggles of Essex Farm workers during the period 1750 to 1914. In the early chapters it talks of a fire in 1822 at Great Clacton causing £1,200 damage and at Dovercourt. Incendiarism was used as a protest in an effort to avoid identification. In reference of the Swing Riots, some eight years later, it mentions a fire at Ramsey, with the arrest of several prisoners, and then continues "Besides Ramsey eleven other villages were affected, particularly Great and Little Clacton, Great Holland, Kirby, Tendring Thorpe-le-Soken, and Walton. An eye witness reported "Kirby and Clacton are in a complete state of insurrection, some of the labourers declaring that they could help themselves and they would do so.' This exaggeration was probably occasioned by the sight of the whole labouring population parading without hindrance through their villages: at least a hundred marched at Great Holland, 140 at Little Clacton, 150 at Tendring, 200 at Ramsey and 300 at Walton" This is the area in which my wife's ancestors were living and working and maybe rioting. I can find no record of any of them being arrested, charged, tried or sentenced for any riotous behaviour, but bearing in mind the living and working conditions, the passions and the numbers involved I would be surprised if they had not been included at least in the marching. Can anyone suggest where I can search to learn if any were more active. Thank you David.

Although the suggestion from Brad and Firebird is the most likely, there's also a small chance that the older sarah did die and was either buried in another church or the burial records for Harwich may not be complete. T Diane wynne wrote: > I've been trawling through the parish registers of Harwich and have found > the baptisms of the following children: > > Sarah daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised November 5 1764 > Sarah Maria daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised December 3 1766 > > There is no burial record for the first Sarah and the family didn't move > away from Harwich. > Also there was only one set of parents called Henry and Sarah at the time. > > The question is, how likely is it that parents would have two living > children, one called Sarah and one called Sarah Maria? > > Thanks > Diane > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

If you're her most directly related surviving relative, and can prove it using run-of-the-mill paperwork, then you should be able to make some sort of special request for access to her records. It might be prudent to lean on the close family angle rather than announce yourself as a gene hunter. I would also check out the burial plot anyway - they could merely be assuming that it's unmarked. It probably is, but you never know! Good luck. Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of WENTINKE@aol.com Sent: 08 August 2008 09:49 Snip> I contacted the hospital, who informed me that as the information that she was a patient there they could tell me some information, but as it was less than 100 years ago this information would be limited. <snip>... I will have to wait until 2022 to ask for her medical records. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1589 - Release Date: 03/08/2008 13:00

I've been trawling through the parish registers of Harwich and have found the baptisms of the following children: Sarah daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised November 5 1764 Sarah Maria daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised December 3 1766 There is no burial record for the first Sarah and the family didn't move away from Harwich. Also there was only one set of parents called Henry and Sarah at the time. The question is, how likely is it that parents would have two living children, one called Sarah and one called Sarah Maria? Thanks Diane

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 16:42:56 +0200 "Diane wynne" <thewynnes@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Diane, > The question is, how likely is it that parents would have two living > children, one called Sarah and one called Sarah Maria? I have similar sorts of things. It's possible, but I have no way of knowing for sure, that the elder of the two was very ill, and not expected to live, at the time of the birth of the second. Consequently, the name was "handed on". Subsequent to that, the elder made a recovery, so a second name was given the the younger sibling so the two could be differentiated. I'm sure others can come up with other equally plausible explanations. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" It's not your heart, it's your bank I want to break It's Yer Money - Wonder Stuff

Diane wynne wrote: > I've been trawling through the parish registers of Harwich and have found > the baptisms of the following children: > > Sarah daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised November 5 1764 > Sarah Maria daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised December 3 1766 > > There is no burial record for the first Sarah and the family didn't move > away from Harwich. > Also there was only one set of parents called Henry and Sarah at the time. > > The question is, how likely is it that parents would have two living > children, one called Sarah and one called Sarah Maria? It could be that the elder Sarah was very ill and not expected to survive at the time her mum had her next child who was also a daughter so the new baby was baptised Sarah Maria. If the elder Sarah then surprised everyone and survived, the family would have two children with the same name living. It's fairly unusual but not all that unusual.

I am reading an account of the struggles of Essex Farm workers during the period 1750 to 1914. In the early chapters it talks of a fire in 1822 at Great Clacton causing £1,200 damage and at Dovercourt. Incendiarism was used as a protest in an effort to avoid identification. In reference of the Swing Riots, some eight years later, it mentions a fire at Ramsey, with the arrest of several prisoners, and then continues "Besides Ramsey eleven other villages were affected, particularly Great and Little Clacton, Great Holland, Kirby, Tendring Thorpe-le-Soken, and Walton. An eye witness reported "Kirby and Clacton are in a complete state of insurrection, some of the labourers declaring that they could help themselves and they would do so.' This exaggeration was probably occasioned by the sight of the whole labouring population parading without hindrance through their villages: at least a hundred marched at Great Holland, 140 at Little Clacton, 150 at Tendring, 200 at Ramsey and 300 at Walton" This is the area in which my wife's ancestors were living and working and maybe rioting. I can find no record of any of them being arrested, charged, tried or sentenced for any riotous behaviour, but bearing in mind the living and working conditions, the passions and the numbers involved I would be surprised if they had not been included at least in the marching. Can anyone suggest where I can search to learn if any were more active. Thank you David.

Does anyone know if an equivalent document to this 1381 Suffolk Poll Tax Surname Listing exists for Essex? http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/suffolk1381.pdf David Vesey

Hi Malcolm,   Another possible reason !   Earlier surveys for the OS had been for the one inch to the mile maps.  Between 1862 and 1876, a survey was being carried out in Essex for the first edition of the large scale maps, published at the 25 inch to the mile scale.   This meant that a new survey was needed, at the larger scale, with a great deal more detail, so it required more time and more manpower than the earlier revisions of the one inch maps.   Some towns were also surveyed and published at an even larger scale, 125 inches to the mile.  The two nearest such towns near High Ongar were Chelmsford and Brentwood, and both were being surveyed in 1871.   This information comes from an invaluable book "Ordnance Survey Maps; a concise guide for historians" by Richard Oliver.  My edition is 1994.   It might be worth checking when the OS was carrying out this new survey in relation to the places your ancestor was living at different times.   The detail included in the 125 inches to the mile maps is incredible.  Yesterday evening we were looking at our local small railway station, with a photocopy of this map in hand.  It not only shows all the individual lines, but labels the rooms in the station "Gentlemen's waiting room", "Ladies waiting room", Booking Office", "Stationmaster's House", "parcels office" and "wash house".  It shows individual houses, their garden boundaries, trees and garden pathes, and the pump.   Some may be found in the County Record Office.  There is a complete set in the British Library.  If your ancestor lived in one of these towns, you are in luck !   Keith     Roger and Listers Thanks for that useful info. My gggrandfather was accompanied by his family on his various tours of duty (as a Surveyor with the OS) elsewhere in the British Isles (ie Ireland, Scotland and England). Each appears to have been of 3-5 years duration. When living in High Ongar in 1871, his immediate neighbour (an Asst OS Surveyor) also lived with his family. There were others elsewhere in the village recorded as 'lodgers' and shown working as 'OS draughtsmen' and 'OS labourers'. From Essex records, I now notice that the the Loughton railway was being extended beyond Woodford to High Ongar in 1865. So he might have been involved with railway surveying and mapping for that project in some way. And I had always assumed he worked with the Army because one of his daughters married into the Royal Artillery whilst the family lived in High Ongar. Now I'm not so sure!! Thanks again. Any further thoughts you might have would be very welcome, Malcolm On 6 Aug 2008, at 23:06, Roger Partridge wrote: > Hi Malcolm & Listers ! > > I would suggest that either (a) they were the "local" Ordnance > Survey team > who produced / revised the maps of that area on a regular basis ?; > or (b) > that they were in the area on a temporary basis to carry out a > revision ? > > Is there any suggestion that they are listed as "Lodgers" which might > mean that the latter is the case ? - or did they have their > families with them > which might make the former, more permanent suggestion more likely ? > > I hope this helps ! Best Wishes ! Roger. > -------------------- > On 6 Aug 2008, at 16:41, Malcolm Mills wrote: > >> Dear Listers >> My gggrandfather William Anthony Lennox was a Land/Ordnance Surveyor. >> The 1871 census shows him living in High Ongar. The census also shows >> others, listed as Surveyor assistants, living close by to him in the >> village. >> I wonder if any one on the list has a theory or opinion as to why a >> clutch of people working for the Ordnance Survey should be living in >> High Ongar around 1871, >> With many thanks >> Malcolm H Mills

Diane, Although it is rare, I have seen it before with the name Elizabeth used for two daughters with a double name for one of them. I'm sorry - that doesn't help much. Margo -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Diane wynne Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 8:43 AM To: Essex Subject: [Ess] Children's names I've been trawling through the parish registers of Harwich and have found the baptisms of the following children: Sarah daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised November 5 1764 Sarah Maria daughter of Henry and Sarah Deane baptised December 3 1766 There is no burial record for the first Sarah and the family didn't move away from Harwich. Also there was only one set of parents called Henry and Sarah at the time. The question is, how likely is it that parents would have two living children, one called Sarah and one called Sarah Maria? Thanks Diane ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.

In my recent post, the first para should read 'error in thre death records'. thanks

Hi If you have had dealings with the GRO could please comment on what I am presuming to be an error in the marriage records. Frederick N COPPIN married Catherine BARKER in the first qtr 1899 in the Hitchin Registration District. Vol 3a page 603. He was a newly appointed station master aged 31 years at Birdbrook on the Colne Valley Railway Line. I don't know about her past. Catherine died in the registration district of Chesterton in the first qtr of 1901. Her age is given as 79 years. Vol 3b page 291. I have looked at the original scan. Fred never remarried and in 1902 was appointed Station Master at Halsted, a position he held until retirement. Any comments gratefully received. Norm Simcock on a sunny winters day in Queensland.

Hi Norm, Your Catherine died aged 38 in 4th quarter 1899 - Reg district Risbridge Ref 4a 488. Hope this helps Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm Simcock" <normejs@live.com.au> To: "Essex List" <essex-uk-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 10:45 PM Subject: [Ess] GRO Death Records - COPPIN/BARKER > In my recent post, the first para should read 'error in thre death > records'. > > thanks > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >