Hi Jan, dates are on Genuki at: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Census.html Hope this helps. Neil > I seem to have mislaid my list of dates when the census was taken. Can > anyone oblige please? > > Many thanks > > Jan > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Jan ! Yes this question cropped up on the Lincolnshire List a while back and the answer given was as follows:- Census dates as follows 1841 6 June 1851 30 March 1861 7 April 1871 2 April 1881 3 April 1891 5 April Best Wishes ! Roger. ---------------------- On 27 Aug 2008, at 16:49, J. Buck wrote: > I seem to have mislaid my list of dates when > the census was taken. Can anyone oblige > please? > > Many thanks > > Jan >

Hi, Searching for David Turban c1823 possibly Toppesfield son of William ( David had 1 brother Ephraim c1821). I wondered if any Tarbin researchers had come across them? Would also like to hear from any Tarbin or Ruggles (Toppesfield) researchers. Carl

I seem to have mislaid my list of dates when the census was taken. Can anyone oblige please? Many thanks Jan

Good old GOOGLE always works - just GOOGLE census dates UK - and there they are - take your pick! Shirley O'Donnell ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Buck" <jan@jb15339.force9.co.uk> To: <essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:49 AM Subject: [Ess] CENSUS DATES >I seem to have mislaid my list of dates when the census was taken. Can > anyone oblige please? > > Many thanks > > Jan > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a friend who has worked at Warley Hospital so I forwarded your question to her - this is her reply: >Hmmm, well there isn't a graveyard on the site...well >not that I have seen when I have been there...though >there was a church, as there is at Runwell and chances >are the service would have taken place on-site. Burial >would more than likely have been at the nearest >cemetary...and there is a church (whether it's the old >hospital one...) right next to the hospital...well a >few yards away and it's quite old....My betting would >be to check the graveyard there. >Hope that helps a little<G>. The Runwell residents always >ended up at the Wickford cemetary down Runwell Road if >families did not express alternative wishes. Nothing definite, but hope that helps in some way. Donna Essex, UK -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Roma Chatt Sent: 25 August 2008 11:22 To: Essex-UK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Ess] Essex County Lunatic Asylum cemetery Hello All, Whilst on the subject of burials/cemeteries, does anyone know if the Essex County Lunatic Asylum (which later became Warley hospital) definitely had its own cemetery within the grounds? I have been looking at Burial books on line which suggests it did, the words ‘Parish of' have been crossed out on the pages & 'Cemetery of'' has been inserted. I expect it is a silly question but is there likely to have been any gravestones? (I'm looking at a burial which took place in 1906). I wonder what happened to the burial area when it was developed recently. Regards Roma (Essex, UK)

Hi Jenny, ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Tutty" <johntutty@unwired.com.au>. >SNIP< > I will reply to you all off List. Sometimes it is better to hit the reply button on your email programme, and snip the inessential parts of the earleir messages, so that listers can follow what's happening. Otherwise, for, as you say, this list is very helpful, several listers may go over the same ground. > > To update, I have all the bones of William Hyde KNAPP > born Hoxton 17 Aug 1816; baptised 2 Oct 1816 > St Leonard's Shoreditch; died 13 Aug 1892 Hackney > Union Infirmary. I have his marriage to Susannah Wilson > 14 Dec 1836 St John Eltham Kent and a list of his nine > children. When the third child Arthur Wilson KNAPP was > born the family was in 17Gloucester Row Gloucester Street > Hoxton. > SNIP<> > Thank you so much List > Jenny (Australia) and, from your other message today: > As far as bones go I am only missing where he > is buried, did the infirmary bury their dead in a > graveyard attached to the institution? Unlikly, I think. Would have used the parish churchyard until closure around 1854 [metropolitan workhouses] then location would vary from workhouse to workhouse. But remember, William was in as a patient, not necessarily an inmate, and family may have arranged funeral themselves. Hackney Union records will probably be at the LMA: Peter Higginbotham's workhouses site: http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ will help you here. > > As I mentioned in my last message to the List, I > have not looked, in detail, at any other generation > for fear of becoming muddled. The census list > for William KNAPP that you sent to me, I > have now ascertained, that we are looking at > William Hyde's first born child William born c 1838. > Not William Hyde the father. On the evidence you have posted, I am not convinced that William Hyde KNAPP dying in 1892 in the Infirmary is the father. Although I am keeping an open mind, I think it may well be the son. These are the William KNAPPs around in Middlesex in 1841, besides "your" Will KNAPP: [posted off-list].> > You have now opened a Jack in the Box as I have > not gone this far with my research. My line comes > from his brother Arthur who you mention in the 1841 > census. So I now know that hard times have fallen on > William Hyde's son William and that he followed in his father's > footsteps. > > William Hyde KNAPP married Susannah WILSON in > Kent and so William born c 1838 stating his birth place > as Kent would seem correct. Another son George > was born c1839 Finsbury and then the next born > Arthur Wilson KNAPP was born 24 Aug 1840 Hoxton. > > I found very puzzling, your following information , > "However, the William KNAPP in the Infirmary appears to be > also there as a patient in 1891, a House Decorator age 53, > giving a birth of 1838, born Hackney." This seems to be a > mixture of William HYDE and William Jr. The Infirmary records, if they have survived, will throw light on the William KNAPP theer during the 1891 census and the one dying there in 1892. > > John I can't imagine how you managed to obtain so much > information I will send separately off list the details of the the Hoxton family through the censuses. But you really need to look at the images. 1881 ttranscription is free at Familysearch; you reaally need to subscribe to one of the online sites to aid your research, especially from Australia. FreeBMD, of course, will get you index details of BMDs, which you can use to order certificates online from the GRO. Tracking the information on the London/Middlesex KNAPPs through the censuses will enable you to built up a picture of how the various KNAPP families do [or don't!] fit together, and hopefully resolve your confusions :-) As Hoxton/Haggerston [areas of Shoreditch on the borders with Hackney] are in the London/Middlesex area, it might be good for you to join the Middlesex and/or the London lists. HTH John

Good morning John Henley I have misplaced your email address so responding via the List Thank you so much for all the work that you have done in helping me with William Hyde KNAPP. I took your advice and wrote to the List with what information I now have for William Hyde KNAPP. As far as bones go I am only missing where he is buried, did the infirmary bury their dead in a graveyard attached to the institution? As I mentioned in my last message to the List, I have not looked, in detail, at any other generation for fear of becoming muddled. The census list for William KNAPP that you sent to me, I have now ascertained, that we are looking at William Hyde's first born child William born c 1838. Not William Hyde the father. You have now opened a Jack in the Box as I have not gone this far with my research. My line comes from his brother Arthur who you mention in the 1841 census. So I now know that hard times have fallen on William Hyde's son William and that he followed in his father's footsteps. William Hyde KNAPP married Susannah WILSON in Kent and so William born c 1838 stating his birth place as Kent would seem correct. Another son George was born c1839 Finsbury and then the next born Arthur Wilson KNAPP was born 24 Aug 1840 Hoxton. I found very puzzling, your following information , "However, the William KNAPP in the Infirmary appears to be also there as a patient in 1891, a House Decorator age 53, giving a birth of 1838, born Hackney." This seems to be a mixture of William HYDE and William Jr. John I can't imagine how you managed to obtain so much information however thank you so much. I hope that I can refer back to you as I press on to the next generation. Please let me know if you can think of ways for me to further my research. Warm wishes.........Jenny

HO107/1946 Winford, Somerset CENSUS 2 Page 6/F111 Joseph HENSLEY, 34, Carpenter, b. Wetherfield, Essex Kezia, 35, b. Brentwood Elizabeth, 9, do Henry, 8, do Thomas, 6, do Samuel, 4, do George, 2, b. Yeovil George, brother, 18, Labourer, b. Springfield Robert Cox, lodger, widower, 41, Carpenter, b. Bruton Samuel Williams, lodger, 27, do b. Ilminster John Walter, lodger, 15, Labourer, b. Mark, Som. HO107/1937 Winscombe, Som. CENSUS 3 Page 12/F85 Sidcot Thomas DOEWRA, 14, Scholar, b. Kelvedon, Essex Page 15/F86 Ellen DOEWRA, 12, Scholar, do Mary DOEWRA, 12, do do Head: John Frank, Schoolmaster Page 31/F94 Alexander LEIGHTON, 49, Gardener, b. Scotland Jane ? wife, 40, Embroiderer, b. Enfield Frances, 12, scholar, b. Hackney, Mddx Jane, 6, do b. St.Georges, Mddx Louisa, 4, b. Walthamstow, Essex

HO107/1920 West Quantoxhead, Somerset Page 8/F581 Louisa HARRINGTON, svt, 27, Cook, b. Sible Hedingham, Essex head: Isabella Acland Hood, Baronet's wife. HO107/1931 Wincanton, Somerset CENSUS 1 Page 4/F513 Margaret YOUNG, visitor, 40, Governess, b. Stratford, Essex head: George Wyndham, Landed Prop. CENSUS 3 Page 36/F557 John CHALMERS, widower, 79, Pauper Carpenter, b. Woodford, Essex Cornelius White, lodger, 22, Tailor, b. Castle Cary, Som. CENSUS 4 Page 32/F581 High Street Benjamin FESTING, 56, Comm.R.N. Ret'd., b. Andover Caroline, 44, b. Paulton Mary, 12, scholar at home, b. Southend, Essex Caroline, 10, do b. Bath Frederick, 7, do b. Bruton, Som. Edmund, 5, do b. Wincanton, Som. Elizabeth, 4, do do Anne Walcot, 19, Teacher, b. Clifton Mary yke, svt, 22, Cook, b. North Cadbury, Som. Eliza Dyke, 21, Housemaid, b. Queen Carmel

Found her in 1891 with Arthur as GILSON 1891 England Census about Thomasine Gilson Name: Thomasine Gilson Age: 53 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Hastings, Sussex, England Civil Parish: St Pancras Ecclesiastical parish: St John County/Island: London Country: England Street address: 128 Cleveland St Occupation: dressmaker Condition as to marriage: widow Registration district: Pancras Sub registration district: Tottenham Court ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Arthur Gilson 22 single, occupation carman, born London Hackney Thomasine Gilson 53 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 120; Folio 117; Page 21; Can't find Frederick. HTH AnneOn 26 Aug 2008, at 08:57, Helen Gulson wrote: > Hello Listers, > > I am trying to find in the 1891 census, Thomazine Gulson, wife of > Frederick Gulson, born in Great Totham, Essex in 1833. I can find > Frederick Gulson in the 1841 return in Great Totham, 1851 in > Messing, 1861 in Dover and 1871 in London with his wife Thomazine. > Frederick died in 1880 and his wife Thomazine and sons Arthur & > Frederick appear on the 1881 census in Marylebone. On the 1901 > census, by a piece of luck I finally found Thomazine & son Frederick > in St Pancras indexed as Thomazine Julson. For the life of me I > cannot find Thomazine, Arthur or Frederick on any 1891 census > return. I have tried all combinations of spelling without any luck > and was wondering if someone on the list might have some suggestions > of how I might find her. > > As well, Thomazine & Frederick had a daughter - Thomazine Frederica > Sarah - who died in 1886. However, I have not managed to find her > on the 1881 census. She would have been 20 or 21 then and may well > have been married but I cannot todate find a marriage for her either. > > I would appreciate any suggestions. > > Helen > Sydney, Australia > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Dear List You are indeed a dear list. The amount of information that is flowing in is amazing and thank you all so much. I will reply to you all off List. To update, I have all the bones of William Hyde KNAPP born Hoxton 17 Aug 1816; baptised 2 Oct 1816 St Leonard's Shoreditch; died 13 Aug 1892 Hackney Union Infirmary. I have his marriage to Susannah Wilson 14 Dec 1836 St John Eltham Kent and a list of his nine children. When the third child Arthur Wilson KNAPP was born the family was in 17Gloucester Row Gloucester Street Hoxton. I am reserving all suggested information for his son Arthur Wilson KNAPP until I am happy that I have done all the research that I can for William Hyde KNAPP otherwise I become confused and dizzy and then make mistakes. Thank you so much List Jenny (Australia)

Hello Listers, I am trying to find in the 1891 census, Thomazine Gulson, wife of Frederick Gulson, born in Great Totham, Essex in 1833. I can find Frederick Gulson in the 1841 return in Great Totham, 1851 in Messing, 1861 in Dover and 1871 in London with his wife Thomazine. Frederick died in 1880 and his wife Thomazine and sons Arthur & Frederick appear on the 1881 census in Marylebone. On the 1901 census, by a piece of luck I finally found Thomazine & son Frederick in St Pancras indexed as Thomazine Julson. For the life of me I cannot find Thomazine, Arthur or Frederick on any 1891 census return. I have tried all combinations of spelling without any luck and was wondering if someone on the list might have some suggestions of how I might find her. As well, Thomazine & Frederick had a daughter - Thomazine Frederica Sarah - who died in 1886. However, I have not managed to find her on the 1881 census. She would have been 20 or 21 then and may well have been married but I cannot todate find a marriage for her either. I would appreciate any suggestions. Helen Sydney, Australia

----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Perkes" <cperkes@videotron.ca> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: [Ess] Great and Little Hallingbury I think you've rather answered your own question by stating that it is a rural area! Like everything else, farming was becoming much more industrialised in the 19th century and machines were taking the places of many agricultural labourers. Rural life (for the labouring classes) was as bad, if not worse than life in the poorest area of the cities. Many farm workers lived in tied accomodation, so as soon as they were too old or infirm to work, they were thrown out and usually ended up in the workhouse. Families were large by today's standards, so there were more and more people chasing few and fewer jobs. The cities and/or emigration offered work and a chance of betterment. Many of my ancestors from the Essex/Hertfordshire borders ended up as bricklayers in London, which was then a city in rapid construction. I haven't actually added it up but I would say that a good 90% of my ancestors who had been born into a rural/agricultural labourer background ended up in London by 1890. Although I have only a couple of connections in Great and Little Hallingbury, my main SEARLE line came from Bishop's Stortford, a few miles to the west in Hertfordshire. My 3xgt. grandfather died in Hertford prison after being arrested whilst carrying out a burglary and three of his sons were transported to Australia for quite (by today's standards) minor crimes. So, rural living conditions were pretty harsh and so was the punishment handed out for crime. If you google "rural life 1800s", you will find quite a few websites that will give you some idea of what life was like in the countryside in that period. Barbara

P.S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RAYMOND BISHOP" <raybishop.uk@btopenworld.com> > The New Poor Law of 1834 meant that able bodied poor could only receive > assistance in workhouses. Parishes generally formed unions to build > new workhouses. > The following site is very useful for workhouse information: > http://www.workhouses.org.uk > Hackney Union Workhouse, including its infirmary, is covered at: > http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Hackney/Hackney.shtml > Ray > > > John Tutty <johntutty@unwired.com.au> wrote: Hi All! > > I am looking for some ideas on how to locate the birth, baptism and marriage for William Hyde > > KNAPP. I do have his death certificate which states that he died 13 Aug 1892 at the Infirmary > > Hackney Union aged 50 years. The problem with his age is that it would indicate that he was born > > c 1842 however his third child Arthur Wilson KNAPP was born 24 Aug 1840 Ilford. The death > > certificate is typewritten and so the age of 50 years stands out clearly. I was wondering if the > > person who typed the certificate could not clearly see the writing on the register and that > > maybe the age should have read 80 years this would have then made his birth 1812 which fits in > > quite well. I am also wondering about his death in Infirmary Hackney Union. Would this have been > > the local hospital also what does the word UNION mean? > > Yours in hope > Jenny in Oz > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FreeBMD shows Births Dec 1840 (>99%) KNAPP Arthur Wilson Shoreditch 2383 which seems to indicate that your 22.Aug 1840 Ilford information is either wrong or that he was indeed born there but not registered until the December quarter in Shoreditch and a later date and place of birth given to avoid the penalties for late registration - only the certificate will tell you more. It would also seem to point towards the possibility I mentioned earlier of confusion between the two Williams, and that may have the death certificate for Arthur's brother rather than father. you might also like to know about Marriages Jun 1870 (>99%) Eagle Alice Jessie F Sudbury 4a627 Faiers Catherine Sudbury 4a627 Knapp Arthur Wilson Sudbury 4a627 and Deaths Sep 1890 (>99%) Knapp Arthur Wilson 50 Romford 4a178 also Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%) Brown Anne Brentford 3a91 Cogger Sarah Brentford 3a91 CREW William Henry Brentford 3a91 Knapp William Hyde Brentford 3a91 Births Sep 1875 (>99%) Knapp William Hyde Mile End 1c544 Deaths Sep 1892 (>99%) Knapp William Hyde _0 Hackney 1b291 (curiously, no birth for this one??) There are too many plain William KNAPPs to sort out without a lot of census cross-referncing - e.g. 3 Williams married in Hackney/Shoreditcvh 1862-3! This might be William senior, but lots of other possibilities: Deaths Sep 1882 (>99%) Knapp William 66 Shoreditch 1c104 John

I am still trying to find out who Dorinda Chatfield's parents are; She married William Moss b 11 Dec 1798 in East Ham, Essex, England and he died 15 Jan 1837 being buried at St. Mary Magdalene, East Ham, Essex. Anglican's age 39 No idea where Dorinda was born but she was born in 1808 and buried 4 Aug 1833 St. Dunston, Cheam Surrey??? I have a copy of thier marriage certificate and they were married in 1821 at Whitechapel St. Mary's church in Middlesex Any and all help in finding Dorinda's parents will be greatly appreciated. Dot in NH USA

Hello Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "RAYMOND BISHOP" <raybishop.uk@btopenworld.com> > The New Poor Law of 1834 meant that able bodied poor could only receive > assistance in workhouses. Parishes generally formed unions to build > new workhouses. > The following site is very useful for workhouse information: > http://www.workhouses.org.uk > Hackney Union Workhouse, including its infirmary, is covered at: > http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Hackney/Hackney.shtml > Ray > > John Tutty <johntutty@unwired.com.au> wrote: Hi All! > > I am looking for some ideas on how to locate the birth, baptism and marriage for William Hyde > > KNAPP. I do have his death certificate which states that he died 13 Aug 1892 at the Infirmary > > Hackney Union aged 50 years. The problem with his age is that it would indicate that he was born > > c 1842 however his third child Arthur Wilson KNAPP was born 24 Aug 1840 Ilford. The death > > certificate is typewritten and so the age of 50 years stands out clearly. I was wondering if the > > person who typed the certificate could not clearly see the writing on the register and that > > maybe the age should have read 80 years this would have then made his birth 1812 which fits in > > quite well. I am also wondering about his death in Infirmary Hackney Union. Would this have been > > the local hospital also what does the word UNION mean? > > Yours in hope > Jenny in Oz > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In addition to what Ray has written it is worth noting that by 1892 the workhouse infirmaries were indeed serving as the local hospitals. However, the William KNAPP in the Infirmary appears to be also there as a patient in 1891, a House Decorator age 53, giving a birth of 1838, born Hackney. This would be consonant with William H KNAPP in 1881 in Hackney, age 44, Painter, but this time his birthplace is Kent. [He may have thought he couldn't get treatment in the Infirmary unless he was born in Hackney]. In 1871 this William is in Stepney, a Bricklayer aged 35, born Hawkhurst, Kent. In 1861 he is in Stepney, a Dock labourer, aged 25 born Hawkhurst, with earlier wife Alice. 1n1851 a possibility is in Shoreditch, scholar age 13, born Woolwich Kent. This one has a brother Arthur. This last is in Shoreditch in 1841 age 3, with brother Arthur. In view of the numbers of William & Arthur KNAPPs appearing in the various censuses, much more work is needed to disentangle them. It might be helpful if you were to share with the list what you know about the KNAPPs -certificates, census and so on, and what is certain and what is assumed. [Without more work it is not possible to be certain about the continuity of the above Williams, for example]. Is it possible that you have brothers Arthur and William, both sons of William, and there is some confusion between the two Williams? Cheers John Henley researching (and not finding much time for - but always very glad to hear of any) HENLEY, PARKER, RAPER, [London/Middlesex] DURDEN, PRENTICE [Essex/London/ Woolwich] , SECKER, [Suffolk, London/Middlesex] ROLFE, (O)RAFFERTY, EVANS, PARSONS, SYMONDS [ Berks/Hants/Wilts] HILL [IN Staffs/Cambs/Berks]

Colleen wrote: > I'm a level headed person, yet on a recent visit to Stanway church I was > slightly taken aback to hear a ghostly voice - a young man's - very quietly, > yet unmistakably, singing a very sad hymn. Beautiful voice he had, but it > sounded so sad and far away. Yikes!!! I hope it wasn't dark with thunder, lightning, rain lashing against the stained glass windows and the wind howling around the church as well!! <G> Pleased to hear you managed to enjoy your visit despite the spooky start ;))

The New Poor Law of 1834 meant that able bodied poor could only receive assistance in workhouses. Parishes generally formed unions to build new workhouses. The following site is very useful for workhouse information: http://www.workhouses.org.uk Hackney Union Workhouse, including its infirmary, is covered at: http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Hackney/Hackney.shtml Ray John Tutty <johntutty@unwired.com.au> wrote: Hi All! I am looking for some ideas on how to locate the birth, baptism and marriage for William Hyde KNAPP. I do have his death certificate which states that he died 13 Aug 1892 at the Infirmary Hackney Union aged 50 years. The problem with his age is that it would indicate that he was born c 1842 however his third child Arthur Wilson KNAPP was born 24 Aug 1840 Ilford. The death certificate is typewritten and so the age of 50 years stands out clearly. I was wondering if the person who typed the certificate could not clearly see the writing on the register and that maybe the age should have read 80 years this would have then made his birth 1812 which fits in quite well. I am also wondering about his death in Infirmary Hackney Union. Would this have been the local hospital also what does the word UNION mean? Yours in hope Jenny in Oz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks Caroline and also Kevan. Caroline I had looked at this person and dismissed her because of the name. Now I think you may be right. If the family story is correct she must have moved to Prittlewell after this. Definitely no 'Burgess' in the Kensington house. With regard to the missing pages. There are definitely some on both the sites I go to. I tried going through Prittlewell page by page and found quite a few missing. Different ones on each site. That's why I asked if there was a full 'paper' copy anywhere. Anyway, as she wasn't working in Prittlewell in 1891, I probably will never really know who fathered the child. Just one of those family mysteries. Many thanks Maisie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline Bradford" <caroline.bradford@btinternet.com> To: "'Tony & Maisie Vince'" <avince6@bigpond.com>; "'Essex List'" <Essex-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:59 AM Subject: RE: [Ess] 1891 Census for Essex > Hi Maisie > > The extra middle name may very well be a clue to the identity of Mabel's > father. Adding a putative father's surname in the Christian name column > was > a common enough practice. Nevertheless, you should not exclude other > possibilities - it could have been a distant family name, or even the name > of someone who had been kind to her during her "trouble". > > I'm a little puzzled by what you mean by "the actual census records". If > you think that Mary Ann has been so horribly mistranscribed as to be > unfindable through either of the online indexes to which you have access > or > that both of those indexes have missed her, you can work your way through > the census images for Prittlewell yourself. Most online providers have > this > facility - let us know if you are unsure how to do it. If you take this > route, make sure you check that the schedule numbers (left most column) > are > continuous from one page to the next. If they are not, it suggests a > missing page. > > The other possibility is that Mary Ann was not in Prittlewell at all. If > this is the case, you are going to have a very tough search on your hands > if > you want to do it "manually"! > > Is your Mary Ann SUTTON the one living with her grandfather Charles in > Orsett in 1881? If so, she also seems to have a third Christian name of > Eliza. Might she therefore be the Eliza SUTTON, born Orsett c1873 who is > a > domestic servant in North Kensington in 1891? Servants quite often had > their names adapted by their masters, and I can find no other evidence of > an > Eliza SUTTON being born or living in Orsett prior to this time. > > Hope this helps > > Caroline > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk- >> bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tony & Maisie Vince >> Sent: 25 August 2008 00:43 >> To: Essex List >> Subject: [Ess] 1891 Census for Essex >> >> I am looking for a Mary Ann Sutton who would have been 17 when the 1891 >> census was taken. I subscribe to two sites where this census is on >> line, and find that they are both different in many respects. I have >> found people on one that are not on the other, and vice versa. One >> site seems to definitely have several pages missing for Prittlewell. >> >> Anyway, Mary Ann was supposed to have been working in this area in >> 1891. In 1893 she gave birth to an illegitimate child who was >> registered as Mabel Dorothy Burgess Sutton. To my mind the Burgess part >> would have been an indication as to who the father was. Family lore has >> it that she was made pregnant by the son of the people who she was >> working for, and that they were the Prittlewell's squire's family. >> >> Mary eventually married Ernest Vince(who was apparently illiterate, but >> better than nothing in those days), when Mabel Dorothy was 3 years old, >> and from then on the child was known as Dorothy Mabel Vince, under >> which name she married. Only to die 2 months later of consumption. >> >> Ernest and Mary Ann are my husband's paternal grandparents, and whilst >> Dorothy really has no bearing on our family genealogy, my curiosity >> needs to know who she was working for, and if there was a Burgess in >> the household. On one site I have found a Robert Burgess, born >> Norwich.Norfolk aged 32, working as a farm servant at Chalkwell Hall, >> along with 2 other female servants - neither of which are remotely like >> Mary Ann. She may have arrived there after the census of curse. He does >> not appear on the other on-line site. >> >> So, is there anyone out there who has access to the actual census >> records that could look up Mary Ann Sutton aged 17, working in >> Prittlewell in 1891? >> >> MTIA >> >> Maisie Vince >> Australia >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK- >> admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message > >