Jan R wrote: > Firebird, I think you're probably right that she was lying about being > "of full age" to avoid having to get her father's consent -- they had > a baby about 7 months later. They did get married in the village where > both of them appear to have been born, so you'd think someone would have > known she wasn't really over 21! None of the witnesses had either of the > family surnames, so I guess their families weren't at the wedding. There was no obligation for family members to be witnesses. They could have been friends of the couple or one of them could be the parish clerk or other church official but you'd only be able to tell if one witness was the parish clerk by looking at the parish register. There's no way of telling who was or was not at the wedding now - which is a shame. I image it could be quite interesting to know who'd been there. If she was only a bit under 21, then it may well have been forgotten that she was, plus with a baby on the way (nothing unusual in that by the way) it might have been deemed expedient to allow the marriage to go ahead before it was obvious. If they'd been made to wait then the girl could have ended up with a bad reputation and the marriage stopped completely because she wasn't "good enough" for the boy. Better a blind eye than a bad reputation :)) > For the 1841 census, about 18 months after the marriage, they both gave > their ages as 20 years (which would make them both about 18 when they > married). Don't forget the ages were rounded down for the 1841 census which would put both of them between 20 and 24. It's the only census that does that.

I don't consider anyone in the age range of 18- 21 to be minors. My rule of thumb is 16. I have several marriage certificates from my lot and the minors really were minors i.e. 14 & 15 with parents consent. Interestingly enough both marriages were with banns so it might be interesting to check the pr's and see if they in fact posted banns. The marriage certificate should tell you that. Shirley O'Donnell Essex OPC Coordinator ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan R" <tartania99@hotmail.co.uk> To: "Rootsweb Essex" <essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [Ess] Ages on marriage certificates > "Minor" means under 21 and therefore requiring parental consent to the > marriage. > > "Full Age" means any age over 21 and therefore not requiring parental > consent to the marriage. Most people have at least one instance of a > party to the marriage declaring themselves of full age when they were > actually under age, the reasons for which could range from their not > knowing how old they actually were to lying perhaps because the father > of one or both of them didn't approve of their choice of marital partner. Thanks to Dave, Alan and Firebird for your replies. Firebird, I think you're probably right that she was lying about being "of full age" to avoid having to get her father's consent -- they had a baby about 7 months later. They did get married in the village where both of them appear to have been born, so you'd think someone would have known she wasn't really over 21! None of the witnesses had either of the family surnames, so I guess their families weren't at the wedding. For the 1841 census, about 18 months after the marriage, they both gave their ages as 20 years (which would make them both about 18 when they married). Best regards, Jan Beaconsfield, UK _________________________________________________________________ Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/117442309/direct/01/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Hardwicke Act of 1753 set the age of consent by parents at 21 but English Common Law managed quite well without any statutory age of consent until 1885. Under ancient Common Law, in line with Canon Law - which was observed throughout Europe - a girl could marry at 12 and a boy at 14. source: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19980724/ai_n14162600 Not exactly sure what this means and don't always believe what is on the internet! Howard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan R" <tartania99@hotmail.co.uk> To: "Rootsweb Essex" <essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:20 PM Subject: [Ess] Ages on marriage certificates > > Hi all, > > On a marriage certificate from October 1839, if the man's age is given as > "Minor" > and the woman's age is given as "of full age", what ages would this > indicate? > > Thanks, > > Jan > > Beaconsfield, UK > _________________________________________________________________ > See the most popular videos on the web > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> unless they were lying, as was very often the case ;) > > Anne > South Australia Ooops... Thanks for your reply too, Anne! :o) Jan Beaconsfield, UK _________________________________________________________________ See the most popular videos on the web http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/

> "Minor" means under 21 and therefore requiring parental consent to the > marriage. > > "Full Age" means any age over 21 and therefore not requiring parental > consent to the marriage. Most people have at least one instance of a > party to the marriage declaring themselves of full age when they were > actually under age, the reasons for which could range from their not > knowing how old they actually were to lying perhaps because the father > of one or both of them didn't approve of their choice of marital partner. Thanks to Dave, Alan and Firebird for your replies. Firebird, I think you're probably right that she was lying about being "of full age" to avoid having to get her father's consent -- they had a baby about 7 months later. They did get married in the village where both of them appear to have been born, so you'd think someone would have known she wasn't really over 21! None of the witnesses had either of the family surnames, so I guess their families weren't at the wedding. For the 1841 census, about 18 months after the marriage, they both gave their ages as 20 years (which would make them both about 18 when they married). Best regards, Jan Beaconsfield, UK _________________________________________________________________ Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/117442309/direct/01/

Good afternoon, In recognition of the 90th Anniversary of The Armestice, Ancestry are allowing free access on line to all WW1 records for November. Regards Mick.( in France today is a National Holiday )

Jan R wrote: > On a marriage certificate from October 1839, if the man's age is given as "Minor" > and the woman's age is given as "of full age", what ages would this indicate? "Minor" means under 21 and therefore requiring parental consent to the marriage. "Full Age" means any age over 21 and therefore not requiring parental consent to the marriage. Most people have at least one instance of a party to the marriage declaring themselves of full age when they were actually under age, the reasons for which could range from their not knowing how old they actually were to lying perhaps because the father of one or both of them didn't approve of their choice of marital partner.

under 21 is a minor over 21 is full age ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan R" <tartania99@hotmail.co.uk> To: "Rootsweb Essex" <> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:20 PM Subject: [Ess] Ages on marriage certificates > > > Hi all, > > On a marriage certificate from October 1839, if the man's age is given as > "Minor" > and the woman's age is given as "of full age", what ages would this > indicate? > > Thanks, > > Jan > > Beaconsfield, UK > _________________________________________________________________ > See the most popular videos on the web > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi all, On a marriage certificate from October 1839, if the man's age is given as "Minor" and the woman's age is given as "of full age", what ages would this indicate? Thanks, Jan Beaconsfield, UK _________________________________________________________________ See the most popular videos on the web http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/

Hello, Could SKS please help, I am trying to find the baptism of Thomas Jarvis around 1810 in Finchingfield. From an entry for a marriage in Haverhill in 1839 he states that his father is John Jarvis. Also on the entry is a W, which could mean he was widow, is there anything in Finchingfield about this first marriage? Thanks and regards Valerie

Have you tried looking for suitable directories on http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/ Search by county first, then sort the results into date/decade order, then choose the most suitable directory. You can then search by keyword/string. Hope this helps Heather Tony Brown wrote: > A trip to the local library to look at the relevant Kelly's Directory may > help as house names are often listed in the years before houses were > numbered. They may also have (depending on your library) large scale > Ordnance Survey maps which may help pinpoint the position of the house > relative to roads etc so that you can then map the information on the 1901 > census to it. > > Regards > > Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Dianadiluca@aol.com > Sent: 09 November 2008 22:56 > To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley > > > Hi all, > > My ex neighbours have just moved into a new house on Kiln Road, > Thundersley. > It is just over a 100 years old and apparently it was called 'Rushmere'. > > Can anyone find any information on the house? Was it listed in the 1901 > census? > > Would appreciate any help at all as it would be nice to have some > background > to the history of the house. > > Thanks in advance, > > Diana

A trip to the local library to look at the relevant Kelly's Directory may help as house names are often listed in the years before houses were numbered. They may also have (depending on your library) large scale Ordnance Survey maps which may help pinpoint the position of the house relative to roads etc so that you can then map the information on the 1901 census to it. Regards Tony -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dianadiluca@aol.com Sent: 09 November 2008 22:56 To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley Hi all, My ex neighbours have just moved into a new house on Kiln Road, Thundersley. It is just over a 100 years old and apparently it was called 'Rushmere'. Can anyone find any information on the house? Was it listed in the 1901 census? Would appreciate any help at all as it would be nice to have some background to the history of the house. Thanks in advance, Diana ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

nothing to do with me Sorry Did suggest original enquirer consult the house deeds for both the date house built as well as previous owners ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna" <donna@dlf.me.uk> To: <> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley > > I've found Kiln Road on the 1901 census, but unfortunately the houses > aren't > named or numbered so no sign of "Rushmere" - sorry! > > Donna > Essex, UK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On > Behalf Of Alan Nelson > Sent: 10 November 2008 09:02 > To: Dianadiluca@aol.com > Cc: essex-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley > > > 100 years ago would make it built in 1908 which is 7 years after the 1901 > census > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Dianadiluca@aol.com> > To: <> > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:55 PM > Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley > > >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> My ex neighbours have just moved into a new house on Kiln Road, >> Thundersley. >> It is just over a 100 years old and apparently it was called 'Rushmere'. >> >> Can anyone find any information on the house? Was it listed in the 1901 >> census? >> >> Would appreciate any help at all as it would be nice to have some >> background >> to the history of the house. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Diana >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I've found Kiln Road on the 1901 census, but unfortunately the houses aren't named or numbered so no sign of "Rushmere" - sorry! Donna Essex, UK -----Original Message----- From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Alan Nelson Sent: 10 November 2008 09:02 To: Dianadiluca@aol.com Cc: essex-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley 100 years ago would make it built in 1908 which is 7 years after the 1901 census ----- Original Message ----- From: <Dianadiluca@aol.com> To: <> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley > > > Hi all, > > My ex neighbours have just moved into a new house on Kiln Road, > Thundersley. > It is just over a 100 years old and apparently it was called 'Rushmere'. > > Can anyone find any information on the house? Was it listed in the 1901 > census? > > Would appreciate any help at all as it would be nice to have some > background > to the history of the house. > > Thanks in advance, > > Diana >

And the grandfather I never knew, Harry Charles Price, 7th Battalion The Buffs (East Kent Regiment), died of disease 14 Feb 1917; resting at Varennes. Born 29 Aug 1876, Great Burstead. Jane in Canberra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Brown" <walkingmom@hotmail.com> To: <essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:18 AM Subject: Re: [Ess] Remembrance Weekend > > And my Great Uncle George Thomas Thurstans, 1st Battalion, Essex Regiment, > 35765 > died of wounds in France 31 Oct 1918, laid to rest Etaples Military > Cemetery. > > Although we never met......he is the ancestor who set me on this wonderful > journey to discover my roots...may he and all his comrades rest in peace, > we will never forget............ > > Lori and Family >> From: Cathy@edgefamily.freeserve.co.uk> To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Date: >> Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:18:42 +0000> Subject: Re: [Ess] Remembrance Weekend> > >> > And > > Frederick Cyril Broyd, born Fordham 1897, died Villers >> Bretonneux 24 April 1918> > my husband's great uncle> > Cath >> Edge> -----Original Message-----> From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com> >> [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of RAYMOND BISHOP> Sent: >> 08 November 2008 22:57> To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com; Margaret Usmar> >> Subject: Re: [Ess] Remembrance Weekend> > > And my great-uncles:> > >> Samuel Joseph Wright, born Wenden Lofts 1882, died Thiepval 27th July >> 1916> Albert George Wright, born Wenden Lofts 1890, died Arras 3rd May >> 1917> Walter James Wright, born Littlebury 1898, died Arras 21st March >> 1918> > Ray Bishop> > --- On Sat, 8/11/08, Margaret Usmar >> <margaretusmar@gmail.com> wrote:> > From: Margaret Usmar >> <margaretusmar@gmail.com>> Subject: [Ess] Remembrance Weekend> To: >> essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, 8 ! > November, 2008, 1:01 PM> > Remembering two Essex boys in my family tree > this weekend and always:> > Frank William Ecott died WWI at Arras> > > Kenneth Charles Bunyan died WWII on D-Day> > Also especially my son's > friend and army comrade Joe Whittacker, who was> killed in Afghanistan in > June 2008.> > LEST WE FORGET.> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> Any problems, please > contact the List Admin: > Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> -------------------------------> To > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to> > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> Any problems, please > contact the List Admin: > Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> -------------------------------> To > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message! > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://ww > w.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release > Date: 08/11/2008 09:56> > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> Any problems, please > contact the List Admin: > Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> -------------------------------> To > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _________________________________________________________________ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

100 years ago would make it built in 1908 which is 7 years after the 1901 census ----- Original Message ----- From: <Dianadiluca@aol.com> To: <> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley > > > Hi all, > > My ex neighbours have just moved into a new house on Kiln Road, > Thundersley. > It is just over a 100 years old and apparently it was called 'Rushmere'. > > Can anyone find any information on the house? Was it listed in the 1901 > census? > > Would appreciate any help at all as it would be nice to have some > background > to the history of the house. > > Thanks in advance, > > Diana > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Tony, Yes, that's a good suggestion. The local history books might have something and also old maps of Thundersley might have something on there as I know the house used to have a large orchard attached to it. The land has been sold off now and there is a private road of houses there. My daughter who lives in Thundersley will know where the library is so a trip there will be on the cards on a future visit. It will be interesting to read about the local history in any case. Thanks for your reply. Regards Diana Re: A trip to the local library to look at the relevant Kelly's Directory may help as house names are often listed in the years before houses were numbered. They may also have (depending on your library) large scale Ordnance Survey maps which may help pinpoint the position of the house relative to roads etc so that you can then map the information on the 1901 census to it. Regards Tony

Hi, I did say just over the 100 years - I wasn't sure of the exact date it was built. But they think it could have been 1898 or thereabouts so Rushmere could well feature in the 1901 census. I think there is a way to find out about who lived at a certain address in the census but I don't know how to do it. Diana Re: 100 years ago would make it built in 1908 which is 7 years after the 1901 census ----- Original Message ----- From: <Dianadiluca@aol.com> To: <> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [Ess] Rushmere - Kiln Road - Thundersley

Also Pvt Leonel Pottrell, died at Gallipoli aged 23. Served with the Hampshire Regiment Pvt Parker Pottrell, died in Cambridge shortly after being sent home following a shrapnel wound age 27 and Sgt Leonard Pottrell who died at Arras aged 22 after surviving the Battle of the Somme. ( http://www.curme.co.uk/arras2.htm ) Tony Lori Brown wrote: > And my Great Uncle George Thomas Thurstans, 1st Battalion, Essex Regiment, 35765 > died of wounds in France 31 Oct 1918, laid to rest Etaples Military Cemetery. > > Although we never met......he is the ancestor who set me on this wonderful journey to discover my roots...may he and all his comrades rest in peace, we will never forget............ > > Lori and Family > >> From: Cathy@edgefamily.freeserve.co.uk> To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:18:42 +0000> Subject: Re: [Ess] Remembrance Weekend> > > And > > Frederick Cyril Broyd, born Fordham 1897, died Villers Bretonneux 24 April 1918> > my husband's great uncle> > Cath Edge> -----Original Message-----> From: essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com> [mailto:essex-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of RAYMOND BISHOP> Sent: 08 November 2008 22:57> To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com; Margaret Usmar> Subject: Re: [Ess] Remembrance Weekend> > > And my great-uncles:> > Samuel Joseph Wright, born Wenden Lofts 1882, died Thiepval 27th July 1916> Albert George Wright, bornWenden Lofts 1890, died Arras 3rd May 1917> Walter James Wright, born Littlebury 1898, died Arras 21st March 1918> > Ray Bishop> > --- On Sat, 8/11/08, Margaret Usmar <margaretusmar@gmail.com> wrote:> > From: Margaret Usmar <margaretusmar@gmail.com>> Subject: [Ess] Remembrance Weekend> To: essex-uk@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, 8 ! >> > November, 2008, 1:01 PM> > Remembering two Essex boys in my family tree this weekend and always:> > Frank William Ecott died WWI at Arras> > Kenneth Charles Bunyan died WWII on D-Day> > Also especially my son's friend and army comrade Joe Whittacker, who was> killed in Afghanistan in June2008.> > LEST WE FORGET.> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to> ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the> quotes in the subject and the body of the message> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the messag e! > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://ww > w.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release Date: 08/11/2008 09:56> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com> -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _________________________________________________________________ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: Essex-UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ESSEX-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

For: Edward John -Johnnie - Dice killed in action in France 27.05.1918 aged 19. William Harold Dice. Killed in action in France 17.6.1917 aged 21. And for the millions of other young men and women who died for our freedom. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-MShbKCXPr4 Well, how do you do, Private William McBride, Do you mind if I sit down here by your graveside? And rest for awhile in the warm summer sun, I've been walking all day, and I'm nearly done. And I see by your gravestone you were only 19 When you joined the glorious fallen in 1916, Well, I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean Or, Willie McBride, was it slow and obscene? Did they Beat the drum slowly, did the play the pipes lowly? Did the rifles fir o'er you as they lowered you down? Did the bugles sound The Last Post in chorus? Did the pipes play the Flowers of the Forest? And did you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind In some loyal heart is your memory enshrined? And, though you died back in 1916, To that loyal heart are you forever 19? Or are you a stranger without even a name, Forever enshrined behind some glass pane, In an old photograph, torn and tattered and stained, And fading to yellow in a brown leather frame? The sun's shining down on these green fields of France; The warm wind blows gently, and the red poppies dance. The trenches have vanished long under the plow; No gas and no barbed wire, no guns firing now. But here in this graveyard that's still No Man's Land The countless white crosses in mute witness stand To man's blind indifference to his fellow man. And a whole generation who were butchered and damned. And I can't help but wonder, no Willie McBride, Do all those who lie here know why they died? Did you really believe them when they told you "The Cause?" Did you really believe that this war would end wars? Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain, For Willie McBride, it all happened again, And again, and again, and again, and again. Colleen