No need to hesitate, Dick. You are absolutely right that earlyish registrations of illegitimate births varied in how they were dealt with by registrars and the GRO. My statement that the GRO index would have shown the father's surname "not" the mother's was a silly error, and I am sure Jennifer is right that , by the 1880s, there would have been a dual indexing, in the rare event that a father was named. It is, theoretically, possible that Frances may have gone to court to pursue maintenance from William's father, but such actions were very tough on mothers, and only entered into when the mother was desperate or their families vindictive. In most such cases - I am sure you will agree - the identity of fathers went to the grave with the mother. Best wishes Caroline Sent from my iPad On 30 May 2011, at 21:07, Dick Mathews <[email protected]> wrote: > While I hesitate to take issue with Caroline (whose posts to this list > are a regular source of sensible advice) or wth Jennifer (likewise), > what happens when a single mother registers a birth has changed over the > years. Prior to the Birth and Death Act 1874 the mother could name > anyone as the father wihout him being present or agreeing. I have a > certificate from the mid 1850s found via FreeBMD using the unmarried > mother's surname which (to my surprise when I first saw it) named > someone I'd never heard of as the father. And I have another very early > one (1838) for Hannah Boden where the informant is identified as > "Elizabeth Dolmans, Occupier, and present at the birth" - so neither > parent was involved in the registration. > > So, sadly, John Galley's birth registration is unlikely to identify his > father - but the Quarter Sessions records for bastardy might provide a > clue!. > > Dick Mathews > > On 30/05/2011 15:59, [email protected] wrote: >> >> In a message dated 30/05/2011 15:44:45 GMT Daylight Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Although it was, theoretically, >> possible for the fathers of illegitimate children to be named, this would >> only happen if they fessed up and agreed to attend the child's >> registration. >> On the rare occasion that this happened, the child would be listed in the >> GRO index under the father's surname, not the mother's >> >> >> I would like to add a small correction to this. If the father attended >> registration and is named on the birth certificate, the child is indexed under >> both the mother and the father's names. >> >> Regards, >> Jennifer >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>

While I hesitate to take issue with Caroline (whose posts to this list are a regular source of sensible advice) or wth Jennifer (likewise), what happens when a single mother registers a birth has changed over the years. Prior to the Birth and Death Act 1874 the mother could name anyone as the father wihout him being present or agreeing. I have a certificate from the mid 1850s found via FreeBMD using the unmarried mother's surname which (to my surprise when I first saw it) named someone I'd never heard of as the father. And I have another very early one (1838) for Hannah Boden where the informant is identified as "Elizabeth Dolmans, Occupier, and present at the birth" - so neither parent was involved in the registration. So, sadly, John Galley's birth registration is unlikely to identify his father - but the Quarter Sessions records for bastardy might provide a clue!. Dick Mathews On 30/05/2011 15:59, [email protected] wrote: > > In a message dated 30/05/2011 15:44:45 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Although it was, theoretically, > possible for the fathers of illegitimate children to be named, this would > only happen if they fessed up and agreed to attend the child's > registration. > On the rare occasion that this happened, the child would be listed in the > GRO index under the father's surname, not the mother's > > > I would like to add a small correction to this. If the father attended > registration and is named on the birth certificate, the child is indexed under > both the mother and the father's names. > > Regards, > Jennifer > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 2011/05/30 17:27, Tony Pottrell wrote: > Thanks for taking a look, I think you're right looking at it again - I > didn't compare the entries to the dates on the right:) The other clue was in the slight difference in the handwriting. Indicative of being written at different times, probably with different batches of ink and maybe a different quill :-) -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

On 2011/05/30 16:49, Margaret Taylor wrote: > Personally I don't think the " ?? child of Hon: POTTOROLL" entry ( buried > October) is connected to the Elizabeth who was killed accidentally and ( > bur in June). These are 2 separate burial dates so I think they are 2 > separate entries. > Just my opinion of course. Not only your opinion! Mine too! Definitely two entries a) Elizabeth LANGLEY shot accidentally at the falcon June 2, and b) The child of Hen: POTTERELL Octob: 23 Was there a pub called The Falcon in the area? -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Hi guys, Thanks for taking a look, I think you're right looking at it again - I didn't compare the entries to the dates on the right :) Tony On 30/05/2011 16:14, Mike Fry wrote: > On 2011/05/30 16:49, Margaret Taylor wrote: > >> Personally I don't think the " ?? child of Hon: POTTOROLL" entry ( buried >> October) is connected to the Elizabeth who was killed accidentally and ( >> bur in June). These are 2 separate burial dates so I think they are 2 >> separate entries. >> Just my opinion of course. > Not only your opinion! Mine too! Definitely two entries > > a) Elizabeth LANGLEY shot accidentally at the falcon June 2, and > b) The child of Hen: POTTERELL Octob: 23 > > Was there a pub called The Falcon in the area? >

Hi Dennis I think John's name is ETHERTON, not Everington. There is a marriage between a Frances Amelia GALLEY and John ETHERTON in Chelmsford district in Q3 1883. In 1891, your William is with John and Frances at 51 Monks Road, Romford (mistranscribed by Ancestry as "William Gorlley Etherton") The census reference is RG12 Piece 1367 Folio 153. He is listed as John's son and there is also a 4 year old daughter, Florence. It looks like your William was illegitimate. Frances Amelia was born a GALLEY, in 1858, to William GALLEY and Caroline. Young William was with this pair of grandparents in 1881 in Great Leighs. I think his birth is probably the one in Chelmsford RD in Q4 1877, but you won't find the father's name on the certificate, alas. Although it was, theoretically, possible for the fathers of illegitimate children to be named, this would only happen if they fessed up and agreed to attend the child's registration. On the rare occasion that this happened, the child would be listed in the GRO index under the father's surname, not the mother's. Hope this helps Caroline > > Please disregard my previous post. I have found the marriage record, > but it > gives the father's name as John EVERINGTON, Step-Father. I'm trying to > find > the name of William's birth father. > Sorry for the inconvenience...... > Previous message: I am looking for the marriage record of William John > GALLEY and Annie MUNDY, who were married at Romford, Essex on October > 24, > 1896. Specifically, I'm looking for the names of William's parents. I > believe that his mother was Frances Amelia, but I don't have his > father's > first name. > > Any assistance would be most appreciated.. > > Dennis Galley > Port Elgin, Ontario

Hi all, I was checking up on some old research material and I came across a burial entry for an "Unknown Potterell" in the Langley PRs, I thought I'd look into it again and I've found the entry but I'm having trouble reading it. I was hoping someone could help transcribe it for me. It's on page 64 of the Langley PR available on SEAX: http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/Images.Net/default.aspx?ID=945438 Left hand page, right column, near the bottom starting with the words: "Elizabeth Langey shot accidentally...". It looks like "at the falcon [something] of Henry Potterell". Clearly not a burial entry for Henry, but I am curious none-the-less! Thanks in advance, Tony

Hi Dennis There is a birth of a William John Galley Births Dec 1877 GALLEY William John Chelmsford 4a 269 In 1881 there is a William Galley age 3 with grandparents in Gt Leighs. & Frances A Gally age 23 b Terling is a servant in Braintree. Could his mother have been unmarried. Could you check the 1871 & 61 census for the area? Marriages Sep 1883 Etherton John Chelmsford 4a 439 GALLEY Frances Amelia Chelmsford 4a 439 This could be them. Cheers Jo

In a message dated 30/05/2011 15:44:45 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Although it was, theoretically, possible for the fathers of illegitimate children to be named, this would only happen if they fessed up and agreed to attend the child's registration. On the rare occasion that this happened, the child would be listed in the GRO index under the father's surname, not the mother's I would like to add a small correction to this. If the father attended registration and is named on the birth certificate, the child is indexed under both the mother and the father's names. Regards, Jennifer

Personally I don't think the " ?? child of Hon: POTTOROLL" entry ( buried October) is connected to the Elizabeth who was killed accidentally and ( bur in June). These are 2 separate burial dates so I think they are 2 separate entries. Just my opinion of course. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Pottrell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 10:34 AM Subject: [Ess] Langley PR entry decypher > Hi all, > > I was checking up on some old research material and I came across a > burial entry for an "Unknown Potterell" in the Langley PRs, I thought > I'd look into it again and I've found the entry but I'm having trouble > reading it. I was hoping someone could help transcribe it for me. > It's on page 64 of the Langley PR available on SEAX: > > http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/Images.Net/default.aspx?ID=945438 > > Left hand page, right column, near the bottom starting with the words: > "Elizabeth Langey shot accidentally...". It looks like "at the falcon > [something] of Henry Potterell". > Clearly not a burial entry for Henry, but I am curious none-the-less! Thanks in advance, > Tony

Please disregard my previous post. I have found the marriage record, but it gives the father's name as John EVERINGTON, Step-Father. I'm trying to find the name of William's birth father. Sorry for the inconvenience...... Previous message: I am looking for the marriage record of William John GALLEY and Annie MUNDY, who were married at Romford, Essex on October 24, 1896. Specifically, I'm looking for the names of William's parents. I believe that his mother was Frances Amelia, but I don't have his father's first name. Any assistance would be most appreciated.. Dennis Galley Port Elgin, Ontario Canada

I am looking for the marriage record of William John GALLEY and Annie MUNDY, who were married at Romford, Essex on October 24, 1896. Specifically, I'm looking for the names of William's parents. I believe that his mother was Frances Amelia, but I don't have his father's first name. Any assistance would be most appreciated.. Dennis Galley Port Elgin, Ontario Canada

Chris and John, great to have a prompt response for once, it's often 5 years before anyone replies to such posts. Your pictures should be on their way, I've sent them both at the same time, which can be risky with me as I'm unsure whether I've the knack for sending two emails at once. Let me know if they don't arrive and I'll try again Colleen ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Manning Oh, don't wait, Colleen! My wife's Gant family from Boxted married Petticans, so we'd love a copy! Kind regards, Chris Manning Colchester On 29 May 2011 23:42, colleen <[email protected]> wrote: I have a photo of lovely 15th century Great Horksley Lodge, dated 1937. A Mrs Pettican is standing in the doorway. If anyone is researching this family I'll scan you a copy. The note I have on the Petticans is that "Mr and Mrs Pettican have lived at the lodge for very many years". I am not researching this family so, if you find this note some years after I've posted it, please help me to locate the photo by telling me to look in my photographs files under 'H'. So often, I post this sort of note here and someone asks me for further information years later when I can no longer recall where I found the original photo or data. That means a long search through my many books and photos. Colleen

I have a photo of lovely 15th century Great Horksley Lodge, dated 1937. A Mrs Pettican is standing in the doorway. If anyone is researching this family I'll scan you a copy. The note I have on the Petticans is that "Mr and Mrs Pettican have lived at the lodge for very many years". I am not researching this family so, if you find this note some years after I've posted it, please help me to locate the photo by telling me to look in my photographs files under 'H'. So often, I post this sort of note here and someone asks me for further information years later when I can no longer recall where I found the original photo or data. That means a long search through my many books and photos. Colleen

My great great grandfather was Thomas Howard, a wheelwright and post master who lived in Inworth and Tiptree, not far from Tollesbury. He was born on the Isle of Sheppy sometime between 1808 and 1819 - he claimed to be different ages at different times. I've always suspected that Thomas was related to John Howard, a Maldon shipbuilder, though I've never been able to prove this. Colleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian" <[email protected]> > Looking for the following surnames of the wives who married into by > various > great grandfather's family: > Elizabeth HOY married Robert SURRY 1779 Tollesbury (died 1785) > Mary Ann ALDEN married Samuel SURRY 1818 Tollesbury (died 1819) > Ann HOWARD married Samuel SURRY 1821 Tollesbury > Rebecca LEMON married Robert SURRY 1785 Tollesbury > ..Rebecca was widowed in 1818; she then married to James SHEARCROFT > > I have had little (or no) success trying to research these names from this > area of Essex. > > Brian

My great great grandfather was Thomas Howard, a wheelwright and post master who lived in Inworth and Tiptree, not far from Tollesbury. He was born on the Isle of Sheppy sometime between 1808 and 1819 - he claimed to be different ages at different times. I've always suspected that Thomas was related to John Howard, a Maldon shipbuilder, though I've never been able to prove this. Colleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian" <[email protected]> > Looking for the following surnames of the wives who married into by > various > great grandfather's family: > Elizabeth HOY married Robert SURRY 1779 Tollesbury (died 1785) > Mary Ann ALDEN married Samuel SURRY 1818 Tollesbury (died 1819) > Ann HOWARD married Samuel SURRY 1821 Tollesbury > Rebecca LEMON married Robert SURRY 1785 Tollesbury > ..Rebecca was widowed in 1818; she then married to James SHEARCROFT > > I have had little (or no) success trying to research these names from this > area of Essex. > > Brian

I've traced my SURRYs back to a marriage in Tollesbury between Robert Surry and Elizabeth HOY in 1779. Elizabeth died in childbirth, and Robert remarried in 1785 in Tollesbury to Rebecca Lemon. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find Robert's birthdate or place, other than a "guess" that he may have been the child of Robert and Judith (Fuller) Surry in 1757 in Tolleshunt Major. However, that remains speculation. My Robert, preventive services, died in Tollesbury in 1818; his son Robert, also coastguard, was born there in 1785. Any suggestions" Brian

> > My gggg grandmother was Phebe FENNING who married John PEWTER in 1793 in > Tollesbury, Essex. We pretty much have established that Phebe had a son > Thomas out of wedlock in Dec 1792 in Tollesbury - 6 months before she > married John Pewter. > John and Phebe children were Sarah (chr. 1796 in Tollesbury - my line) and > Phebe (chr. 1801 Tollesbury). John died in West Mersea in Feb 1806. > > Sarah married Robert Surry in Tollesbury in 1816 and Phebe married John POND > c. 1825 in Upminster. > > Would very much like to track down Phebe Fenning's parents. Any advice. > > Brian > Edmonton, AB >

Looking for the following surnames of the wives who married into by various great grandfather's family: Elizabeth HOY married Robert SURRY 1779 Tollesbury (died 1785) Mary Ann ALDEN married Samuel SURRY 1818 Tollesbury (died 1819) Ann HOWARD married Samuel SURRY 1821 Tollesbury Rebecca LEMON married Robert SURRY 1785 Tollesbury ..Rebecca was widowed in 1818; she then married to James SHEARCROFT I have had little (or no) success trying to research these names from this area of Essex. Brian

I have been on this list some time ago looking for mother's ancestors with some success. I have been recently told of a Thomas MADDOCKS marrying in Navestock parish in 1764 and he is my new target. I almost match this person's decendant on my DNA test. Any help would be gratefully received Philip Maddocks