Terry, How sure are you of your facts? I for one have never heard of that explanation before and the parish registers I have read certainly don't seem to indicate it. I also don't understand where the date of 1800 comes into the picture. Civil registration started July 1837. I understand that most Catholics would chose their children's names by family tradition which also played a part in the choice of names. Many being given a Saints name as their middle name. Don't forget that Catholics by Law would have had their children baptised at the local Anglican church in 1800. In my husbands family his mothers Catholic family circa 1890's all the girls were called Mary with them being known by their middle names of Gertrude,Lucy,Clara, etc. The use of given name I thought was a recent invention as it covered our non Christian neighbours. Would be interested to hear your comments. Elaine in Ottawa. -----Original Message----- From: TERRY HOPKIN- SUNDBY Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:39 AM To: yorkshire list Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? hi for many of us when we were baptized, the church refused to accept the name given by the parent so we finished up with a name given to registrar and another when baptized;-- you will note that on a full birth certificate there is a section for additional baptismal names. Church names have always been seen as Christian names and those given by parents and registered at the registrar as the given name. (most often Catholics and high church) as you know before 1800 it was the church who registered by baptism but after 1800 there are censuses and names "first names" on the census may well be the given name and not the Church or Christian name regards Terry > From: ovington1@sky.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:59:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Hi Terry > > I would be interested to know what your definition of Christian name , > Given > name or any other variety is > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with > > Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad when > > it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can > > find > > that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in the > > early censuses because the family given name is used and not the > > Christian > > name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something > > new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its > > consequences in our hobby > > Terry > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3220 - Release Date: 10/26/10 02:34:00
MY GIVEN NAME IS Terry my church name is Peter and there are quite a few of my age who also regardless of whether the given name was first second or third the church would not baptize with the given name included. There were priests who would, great if you live in a city were one could always go to another parish, but it is only in recent times that adding a Peter, Paul, or Mary etc lets the whole be baptized. There was also a prejudice against Celtic and Gaelic first names, not mention the languages, so again one was very dependent on the priest, or vicar, as to whether they would be accepted. I used 1800 but as you say 1837 regards Terry National day here in Greece tomorrow, flags everywhere and my Greek grandchildren busy getting ready for the parades > From: trayford@rogers.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:15:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Terry, > > How sure are you of your facts? I for one have never heard of that > explanation before and the parish registers I have read certainly don't seem > to indicate it. > > I also don't understand where the date of 1800 comes into the picture. Civil > registration started July 1837. > > I understand that most Catholics would chose their children's names by > family tradition which also played a part in the choice of names. Many being > given a Saints name as their middle name. > Don't forget that Catholics by Law would have had their children baptised at > the local Anglican church in 1800. > > In my husbands family his mothers Catholic family circa 1890's all the girls > were called Mary with them being known by their middle names of > Gertrude,Lucy,Clara, etc. > > The use of given name I thought was a recent invention as it covered our non > Christian neighbours. > > > Would be interested to hear your comments. > > > Elaine in Ottawa. > > -----Original Message----- > From: TERRY HOPKIN- SUNDBY > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:39 AM > To: yorkshire list > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > hi > for many of us when we were baptized, the church refused to accept the name > given by the parent so we finished up with a name given to registrar and > another when baptized;-- you will note that on a full birth certificate > there is a section for additional baptismal names. Church names have always > been seen as Christian names and those given by parents and registered at > the registrar as the given name. (most often Catholics and high church) as > you know before 1800 it was the church who registered by baptism but after > 1800 there are censuses and names "first names" on the census may well be > the given name and not the Church or Christian name > regards > Terry > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:59:20 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > Hi Terry > > > > I would be interested to know what your definition of Christian name , > > Given > > name or any other variety is > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with > > > Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad when > > > it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can > > > find > > > that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in the > > > early censuses because the family given name is used and not the > > > Christian > > > name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something > > > new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its > > > consequences in our hobby > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3220 - Release Date: 10/26/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
On 27 Oct 2010 at 11:15, Elaine Pickard wrote: > Don't forget that Catholics by Law would have had their children baptised at the local > Anglican church in 1800.< I think you may be slightly confused, Elaine, with respect. Certainly, Catholics had to marry in the Church of England, under Hardwicke's Marriage Act, from 1754-1837, but they still carried out their own baptisms and burials in 1800. I don't believe it was compulsory for them by law by then to baptise their offspring in the Anglican Church. It may well be that many did, in fact, baptise their children in the C of E because there weren't that many Catholic churches and chapels around at the time - the number of Catholics was no more than 250,000 in 1811 - and those that were were often private chapels on the estates of the older aristocratic Catholic families. These chapels were mostly used by the family and their servants (who probably had little choice). Catholics had to marry in the C of E under Hardwicke's Act, the only exceptions allowed being Quakers and Jews - but they could still perform baptisms in their own religion. There were Catholic marriage ceremonies as well, but they weren't valid in civil law and a couple had to marry as well in the parish church, often on the same day or within a couple of days. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE