Hi Roy, Thanks for your quick reply. Yes, I didn't think there were any useful census before 1841, but thought I'd double check. As far as finding Nicholas living with Mary & John Hagues, I'm not trying to find out if John was Nicholas' father, but trying to verify that it was Nicholas' mother that married John Hagues. I realize that I'll probably never know who his father is, but would like to go back further on his mother's ancestry if possible. I was hoping that I could find her on a census that would give a bit of information on her (age, birth year, birth place, etc). I'll have to get someone with a sub to ancestry to look up the early census records in hopes of finding her (provided she was still alive in 1841). Take care, Dorothy > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:35:00 -0000 > From: "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Nicholas Kirbyson > To: <ENG-YORKSHIRE@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <4D3C74D4.31299.22D28D@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On 22 Jan 2011 at 20:56, Dorothy wrote: > >> Hi, >> I have hit a brick wall with my ancestor, Nicholas Kirbyson. I have >> found his baptism record from Jan. 1, 1803, Settrington, Yorkshire. It >> gives his mother's name as Mary Kirbyson, but does not name a father. >> I have searched the LDS film on Bastardy Records for the area, with no >> luck. Does anyone have any idea where else to look in hopes of finding >> Nicholas' father's name? I do not have access to a local family >> history centre, so it's inconvenient to order films. I believe his >> mother, Mary Kirbyson, was born about 1780, and may have married John >> Hagues in 1805. Does anyone have access to early census records that >> may show if Nicholas is living with John & Mary? Are there any such >> census records available? I know that Nicholas married Ann Dobson in >> 1828, so any census records would have to be before that time period. >> The earliest I have found is 1841. I would also be interested in >> finding out when Mary Kirbyson (Hagues?) died, and where. Any >> suggestions? Thanks, Dorothy Quebec dquebec@sasktel.net > > > There are no official censuses that give names and addresses before 1841. > The first > national census was in 1801 but that census and those of 1811, 1821 and > 1831 were > taken for statistical purposes only. I rather thought everyone knew this, > as it's one of > the best-known facts in family history. > > There were, in fact, a substantial number of unofficial censuses before > 1841 - church > censuses and militia lists, etc - before this date but their survival rate > is not high and > they are thinly spread. > > There is a book called "Local Census Listings 1522-1930: Holdings in the > British Isles" > by Jeremy Gibson and Mervyn Medlycott (one of the well-known Gibson > Guides) that > lists all known local censuses county by county. However, I do not see > anything listsed > for Settrington. > > In any case, even if there was a record that showed Nicholas was living > with John and > Mary Hagues, it wouldn't prove that John was his father. > > Obviously Nicholas was illegitimate, so you may have to accept the fact > that you will > never know who the father was. > > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html >