Hi Roy, Never confused Roy just not 100% sure how the Law was put into practice... I have certainly seen in the Anglican registers with the event listed as by popeish rights. There is also a Catholic chapel in Sheffield's Anglican Cathedral I believe it was the private chapel of the Earl of Shrewsbury so I suppose any RC Ceremony could have taken place there with the records being placed in the Anglican records. The RC 's had used the Duke of Norfolk's town house in Sheffield as a place of worship not sure what happened when St Marie's was built on the same site in 1848ish......Probably went round the corner to the Anglican Parish church. I am sure that the RC's were also buried in Anglican churchyards by necessity. As I said different areas probably dealt with the Law in many different ways....... But you comments taken on board. Regards. Elaine Pickard, Ottawa. Canada Sheffield Indexers. http//www.sheffieldindexers.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Roy Stockdill Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 7:43 AM To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? On 27 Oct 2010 at 11:15, Elaine Pickard wrote: > Don't forget that Catholics by Law would have had their children baptised > at the local > Anglican church in 1800.< I think you may be slightly confused, Elaine, with respect. Certainly, Catholics had to marry in the Church of England, under Hardwicke's Marriage Act, from 1754-1837, but they still carried out their own baptisms and burials in 1800. I don't believe it was compulsory for them by law by then to baptise their offspring in the Anglican Church. It may well be that many did, in fact, baptise their children in the C of E because there weren't that many Catholic churches and chapels around at the time - the number of Catholics was no more than 250,000 in 1811 - and those that were were often private chapels on the estates of the older aristocratic Catholic families. These chapels were mostly used by the family and their servants (who probably had little choice). Catholics had to marry in the C of E under Hardwicke's Act, the only exceptions allowed being Quakers and Jews - but they could still perform baptisms in their own religion. There were Catholic marriage ceremonies as well, but they weren't valid in civil law and a couple had to marry as well in the parish church, often on the same day or within a couple of days. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3222 - Release Date: 10/27/10 02:34:00

Hi Terry I confess I have never heard of any Church or their representative refusing to baptise a child with the name given to them by their parents, except for the rare attempted use of a Pagan or blasphemous one I would suggest that everyone knows exactly what is meant by Christian name regardless of their religion, if you check the various definitions you will find they generally give :- ================= Christian name n. 1. A name given at baptism. Also called baptismal name. 2. A name that precedes a person's family name, especially the first name. Christian name n a personal name formally given to Christians at christening. The term is loosely used to mean any person's first name as distinct from his or her surname Also called first name forename given name ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms Noun 1. Christian name - the first name given to Christians at birth or christening baptismal name first name, forename, given name - the name that precedes the surname =================== The name we are baptized with OR registered with (which may be the same or not) *is* our given name (the name we were given as opposed to the name we inherit , the surname) The name someone is recorded as in a census, life event or anywhere else is just that , the name as used or known by the informant , that may be the same as or different to their given/Christian name The addition of another or different name in any subsequent record does not change your given name, its just a name you are known by I was born, Baptized and raised a Catholic and am also a Peter I was baptised and registered with four forenames but for much of my life was known by a completely different forename Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > hi > for many of us when we were baptized, the church refused to accept the > name given by the parent so we finished up with a name given to registrar > and another when baptized;-- you will note that on a full birth > certificate there is a section for additional baptismal names. Church > names have always been seen as Christian names and those given by parents > and registered at the registrar as the given name. (most often Catholics > and high church) as you know before 1800 it was the church who registered > by baptism but after 1800 there are censuses and names "first names" on > the census may well be the given name and not the Church or Christian > name > regards > Terry

MY GIVEN NAME IS Terry my church name is Peter and there are quite a few of my age who also regardless of whether the given name was first second or third the church would not baptize with the given name included. There were priests who would, great if you live in a city were one could always go to another parish, but it is only in recent times that adding a Peter, Paul, or Mary etc lets the whole be baptized. There was also a prejudice against Celtic and Gaelic first names, not mention the languages, so again one was very dependent on the priest, or vicar, as to whether they would be accepted. I used 1800 but as you say 1837 regards Terry National day here in Greece tomorrow, flags everywhere and my Greek grandchildren busy getting ready for the parades > From: trayford@rogers.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:15:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Terry, > > How sure are you of your facts? I for one have never heard of that > explanation before and the parish registers I have read certainly don't seem > to indicate it. > > I also don't understand where the date of 1800 comes into the picture. Civil > registration started July 1837. > > I understand that most Catholics would chose their children's names by > family tradition which also played a part in the choice of names. Many being > given a Saints name as their middle name. > Don't forget that Catholics by Law would have had their children baptised at > the local Anglican church in 1800. > > In my husbands family his mothers Catholic family circa 1890's all the girls > were called Mary with them being known by their middle names of > Gertrude,Lucy,Clara, etc. > > The use of given name I thought was a recent invention as it covered our non > Christian neighbours. > > > Would be interested to hear your comments. > > > Elaine in Ottawa. > > -----Original Message----- > From: TERRY HOPKIN- SUNDBY > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:39 AM > To: yorkshire list > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > hi > for many of us when we were baptized, the church refused to accept the name > given by the parent so we finished up with a name given to registrar and > another when baptized;-- you will note that on a full birth certificate > there is a section for additional baptismal names. Church names have always > been seen as Christian names and those given by parents and registered at > the registrar as the given name. (most often Catholics and high church) as > you know before 1800 it was the church who registered by baptism but after > 1800 there are censuses and names "first names" on the census may well be > the given name and not the Church or Christian name > regards > Terry > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:59:20 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > Hi Terry > > > > I would be interested to know what your definition of Christian name , > > Given > > name or any other variety is > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with > > > Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad when > > > it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can > > > find > > > that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in the > > > early censuses because the family given name is used and not the > > > Christian > > > name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something > > > new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its > > > consequences in our hobby > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3220 - Release Date: 10/26/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Terry, Can I say first that we can't generalize on why things were done a certain way in a certain area. What I can say after being a transcriber of Parish registers for years and we are currently transcribing St Marie RC Cathedral in Sheffield and these are the findings from their registers. We started in 1840 with a small number of entries being in English but very quickly being changed to "Latin". Our findings when a child was presented for baptism the christian names would be translated into Latin causing all kinds of problems. If the name has been given as John William it would be Latinized as Joannes Gulielmus so nothing would change other than the priest lack of knowledge on a true spelling as we have found. I wish I had a Dollar for every different spelling of William we have found. The Celtic example you have given I can see a priest being presented with a child called Liam Patrick he would have been entered in the register as Guilielmus Patricius(sic) with no mention of Liam Patrick so that could be where the misunderstanding has occurred. The Latin registers continued right through to the 1970's when the language of the church ceased to be Latin. I would suspect that your baptismal entry is Terenius Petrus unless priest couldn't spelt it and came up with another spelling. I just wish I could show you what we are transcribing and you would see what we are dealing with. Dont forget that most of the priest were Irish so no discrimination should have been there. All non conformist marriages which includes Catholics had to have a registrar present by Law until the priests became registrars as the Anglicans were. I believe that was about 1870ish. So a number of years after Civil Registration started. There were so few Catholic Churches prior to about 1840 that there was very little choice. Folks were so used to hiding the fact that they were Catholic that the practice carried on for years after they were given the rights to worship as they chose. I believe that Catholics were only 10% of the population at that time and as they are today. I hope this gives you further insight into what was happening in the church. Elaine Pickard Sheffield Indexers List Adm http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/ -----Original Message----- From: TERRY HOPKIN- SUNDBY Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:50 PM To: yorkshire list Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? MY GIVEN NAME IS Terry my church name is Peter and there are quite a few of my age who also regardless of whether the given name was first second or third the church would not baptize with the given name included. There were priests who would, great if you live in a city were one could always go to another parish, but it is only in recent times that adding a Peter, Paul, or Mary etc lets the whole be baptized. There was also a prejudice against Celtic and Gaelic first names, not mention the languages, so again one was very dependent on the priest, or vicar, as to whether they would be accepted. I used 1800 but as you say 1837 regards Terry National day here in Greece tomorrow, flags everywhere and my Greek grandchildren busy getting ready for the parades > From: trayford@rogers.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:15:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Terry, > > How sure are you of your facts? I for one have never heard of that > explanation before and the parish registers I have read certainly don't > seem > to indicate it. > > I also don't understand where the date of 1800 comes into the picture. > Civil > registration started July 1837. > > I understand that most Catholics would chose their children's names by > family tradition which also played a part in the choice of names. Many > being > given a Saints name as their middle name. > Don't forget that Catholics by Law would have had their children baptised > at > the local Anglican church in 1800. > > In my husbands family his mothers Catholic family circa 1890's all the > girls > were called Mary with them being known by their middle names of > Gertrude,Lucy,Clara, etc. > > The use of given name I thought was a recent invention as it covered our > non > Christian neighbours. > > > Would be interested to hear your comments. > > > Elaine in Ottawa. > > -----Original Message----- > From: TERRY HOPKIN- SUNDBY > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:39 AM > To: yorkshire list > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > hi > for many of us when we were baptized, the church refused to accept the > name > given by the parent so we finished up with a name given to registrar and > another when baptized;-- you will note that on a full birth certificate > there is a section for additional baptismal names. Church names have > always > been seen as Christian names and those given by parents and registered at > the registrar as the given name. (most often Catholics and high church) as > you know before 1800 it was the church who registered by baptism but > after > 1800 there are censuses and names "first names" on the census may well > be > the given name and not the Church or Christian name > regards > Terry > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:59:20 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > Hi Terry > > > > I would be interested to know what your definition of Christian name , > > Given > > name or any other variety is > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with > > > Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad > > > when > > > it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can > > > find > > > that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in > > > the > > > early censuses because the family given name is used and not the > > > Christian > > > name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something > > > new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its > > > consequences in our hobby > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3220 - Release Date: 10/26/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3222 - Release Date: 10/27/10 02:34:00

hi for many of us when we were baptized, the church refused to accept the name given by the parent so we finished up with a name given to registrar and another when baptized;-- you will note that on a full birth certificate there is a section for additional baptismal names. Church names have always been seen as Christian names and those given by parents and registered at the registrar as the given name. (most often Catholics and high church) as you know before 1800 it was the church who registered by baptism but after 1800 there are censuses and names "first names" on the census may well be the given name and not the Church or Christian name regards Terry > From: ovington1@sky.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:59:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Hi Terry > > I would be interested to know what your definition of Christian name , Given > name or any other variety is > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with > > Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad when > > it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can find > > that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in the > > early censuses because the family given name is used and not the Christian > > name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something > > new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its > > consequences in our hobby > > Terry > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: simonespin Surnames: Roberts Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.yks.general/15670/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Has anyone any information On a Nora Roberts who Lived at 94 Blythe Street, Denaby Main, Doncsater between 1945 and 1946 on the 1945 electrol roll there was James and Gladys Cooper and on the 1946 electrol roll there was James and Gladys Cooper and Walter and Lillian Prince. Nora gave birth to a son on 17/04/1946 Springwell House Hamilton annex to Michael David Roberts. If anyone has any information please contact me thankyou. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Terry, How sure are you of your facts? I for one have never heard of that explanation before and the parish registers I have read certainly don't seem to indicate it. I also don't understand where the date of 1800 comes into the picture. Civil registration started July 1837. I understand that most Catholics would chose their children's names by family tradition which also played a part in the choice of names. Many being given a Saints name as their middle name. Don't forget that Catholics by Law would have had their children baptised at the local Anglican church in 1800. In my husbands family his mothers Catholic family circa 1890's all the girls were called Mary with them being known by their middle names of Gertrude,Lucy,Clara, etc. The use of given name I thought was a recent invention as it covered our non Christian neighbours. Would be interested to hear your comments. Elaine in Ottawa. -----Original Message----- From: TERRY HOPKIN- SUNDBY Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:39 AM To: yorkshire list Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? hi for many of us when we were baptized, the church refused to accept the name given by the parent so we finished up with a name given to registrar and another when baptized;-- you will note that on a full birth certificate there is a section for additional baptismal names. Church names have always been seen as Christian names and those given by parents and registered at the registrar as the given name. (most often Catholics and high church) as you know before 1800 it was the church who registered by baptism but after 1800 there are censuses and names "first names" on the census may well be the given name and not the Church or Christian name regards Terry > From: ovington1@sky.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:59:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Hi Terry > > I would be interested to know what your definition of Christian name , > Given > name or any other variety is > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with > > Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad when > > it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can > > find > > that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in the > > early censuses because the family given name is used and not the > > Christian > > name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something > > new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its > > consequences in our hobby > > Terry > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3220 - Release Date: 10/26/10 02:34:00

Hi all I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of this family which is from Wilberfoss. I am researching this family as a favour for someone else and yes, they do need to order several certificates, especially to do with this branch but I am doing a quick reckon to see which certs they need. This involves a John G Brown born c1847 in Wilberfoss - his wife Mary Brown (1842) was born Newton on Derwent. He seems to have married in the district of Pocklington in 1869 and going by the marriage index it would seem that John is John Gaul Brown and married Mary Brown (there are 2 Mary's on the page but going by her dob and place of birth it seems to be Mary Brown that he married). On looking in the birth index and in earlier census, I havent found a John Gaul Brown - but I have found a John Brown Gaul, born 1847 in Wilberfoss. My initial thoughts were that there has been some sort of mix up in the registration - but the censuses clearly show Gaul to be the surname in earlier censuses - and Brown is defintely the surname later on, John's daughter Sarah E Brown is this guys G Grandmother. To make things even wierder - this John Brown Gauls parents appear to be John Gaul and yes, Mary Brown! Am I going mad lol? I hope I havent confused you all. By the way, this is the same family that has the King/Robert name change and indeed this guys own grandfather went by 2 names (he does have the death certificate which says Thomas Smith, also known as William Stevenson Smith) - No wonder he wanted someone else to look it all up lol. Heather

Hi Terry I would be interested to know what your definition of Christian name , Given name or any other variety is Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with > Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad when > it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can find > that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in the > early censuses because the family given name is used and not the Christian > name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something > new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its > consequences in our hobby > Terry

I didnt mean that the difference between christian and given names isnt important - I was referring to the fact that Gary had thought I was insulted in some way. It seems that I may have been rather irritable last night (just come in from work) and I apologise if people feel I was wrong to comment - the discussion between christian names and given names is an interesting point - although as I said, I think everyone knew what I meant by christian name :) I actually have another question re name changes if people dont mind, but will make another thread as its completely different :)) kind regards to all Heather > From: terrysundbya0felan3@hotmail.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:07:37 +0200 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad when it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can find that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in the early censuses because the family given name is used and not the Christian name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its consequences in our hobby > Terry > >

In a message dated 26/10/2010 17:31:49 GMT Daylight Time, garymarian@comcast.net writes: Perhaps it's time to change the subject heading to a broader and more accurate term, such as 'Given-name' instead of 'Christian name' which is out of date in today's expanded lexicon. Hi Gary, I use the word Forename for my headings an d it seems to work. JUDY ELKINGTON [North Derbyshire] _www.elkingtonfamily.com_ (http://www.elkingtonfamily.com/) Elkington@rootsweb.com _www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html_ (http://www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html)

It actually is Heather because there are plenty of ancestors with Christian names that aren't their every day given name. Not so bad when it is the state registering the name but earlier before 1800 you can find that the name given when baptized is not the name you find given in the early censuses because the family given name is used and not the Christian name. Was a bit surprised that people thought given name was something new, even worse that some people didn't know the difference and its consequences in our hobby Terry > From: deanh61@hotmail.co.uk > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:49:54 +0100 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > Not insulted or thin skinned, merely mildly irritated. It really isnt important. > > best wishes to you too. > > Heather > > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:40:29 +0000 > > From: garymarian@comcast.net > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > "Oh for goodness sake", who would know that you were the last word on the subject? We are all here to trade comment and data in a friendly manner, even those with thin skin. No insult intended. > > Best wishes, > > Gary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 12:05:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > > > Oh for goodness sake what difference does it make? - everyone knows what I meant by christian name - and since the subject seemed to be finished anyway then I really dont see the point of you making your 'correction'. > > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:31:07 +0000 > > > From: garymarian@comcast.net > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > > > Hi, > > > Perhaps it's time to change the subject heading to a broader and more accurate term, such as 'Given-name' instead of 'Christian name' which is out of date in today's expanded lexicon. > > > Cheers, > > > Gary, (of Owlcotes West Riding descent) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:04:23 AM > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Mel, I'll check Yorkshire BMD for my own Yorkshire relatives. > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:07:09 -0400 > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > > > No, probably not doing anything wrong. > > > > > > > > I have found that for many of my Yorkshire ancestors which were in the > > > > Yeadon & Otley areas the GRO Index (FreeBMD) gives the registration district > > > > - typically Wharfedale or Otley but the Yorkshire BMD indexes give me > > > > Yeadon, Rawdon, etc which are the villages themselves. Perhaps for Kirkstall > > > > they didn't break it down. > > > > > > > > Mel > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > > Sent: October 24, 2010 6:32 AM > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mel, thanks for the reply. > > > > > > > > I found the birth index on FreeBMD yes. Actually the Robert from 1891 and > > > > King from the earlier censuses were both marked as being born the same place > > > > anyway so it wouldnt matter - but I did look up Yorkshire BMD as you > > > > suggested but couldnt see where it specified a village, just reg district of > > > > Kirkstall as on FreeBMD - am I doing something wrong? > > > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:26:23 -0400 > > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Heather: > > > > > > > > > > You don't say where you found the birth registration info. I am assuming > > > > > FreeBMD. You should cross reference with Yorkshire BMD if you haven't > > > > > already. > > > > > It will specify the village in each case but not the quarter as FreeBMD > > > > > does. > > > > > Confirming the village may add further confidence in your decision. > > > > > > > > > > Mel Smith > > > > > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > > > Sent: October 22, 2010 2:53 PM > > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi thanks Nivard I agree with what you say, I was interested to hear if > > > > > people thought the same as me - I dont think its likely that he would have > > > > > bothered with deed poll either. > > > > > > > > > > As for the marriage certificate, I dont know, I've just started > > > > researching > > > > > this family online tonight and its for someone else as a favour, but its > > > > an > > > > > interesting point, although the Thomas on the census with Robert and with > > > > > King have the same occupation anyway. > > > > > > > > > > I think since there is a birth but no suitable marriage or death for King > > > > > Harrison that I will take him to be Robert. > > > > > > > > > > thanks again > > > > > > > > > > Heather. > > > > > > > > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:15:02 +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > There would be nothing to stop him using Robert as a forename (you can > > > > > > perhaps understand him not wanting to use King <g>) > > > > > > > > > > > > Although there were change of name by deed poll, it is highly unlikely > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > average person would bother with the expense of it > > > > > > > > > > > > It has always been the case that as long as you are not doing it to > > > > > defraud > > > > > > or evade the law, you can call yourself whatever you want to > > > > > > > > > > > > If he gave Robert as his name, that is what would be recorded, no proof > > > > > was > > > > > > asked for until quite recent > > > > > > > > > > > > On the marriage certificate, does the fathers name and occupation match > > > > > that > > > > > > you know for King ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am researching a family called Harrison, the mother Elizabeth is > > > > from > > > > > > > Kirkstall and the father Thomas is from Masham. It's their son Robert > > > > > > > Harrison that is the cause of my query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert was born c1869 in Burley, Leeds. I believe I have found the > > > > > family > > > > > > > in Middlesbrough in 1891 (Burley mistranscribed as Baster). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On trying to trace this family back, Robert isnt there although his > > > > > > > siblings are the same. In Roberts place however, born the same year > > > > > there > > > > > > > is a boy named King Harrison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have found a birth in the index of King Harrison of the right year > > > > > > > (1869) in the district of Kirkstall - but no birth for Robert Harrison > > > > > > > > > > > sticks out (there is one in 1870 but there is another Robert Harrison > > > > > born > > > > > > > Leeds at that time). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it likely that Robert changed his name from King to Robert? (on the > > > > > > > > > > > first census that has him as Robert he is 22). If so, is there likely > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > be any documentation of this? He married as Robert by the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for any help and opinions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

both Christian and given name have always been used, there is also a Church name which was the name the church accepted and christened with, and a given name that was used outside, my church (Christian name) is Peter but my given name is TERRY the next time my Christian name will be used is when they bury me lol Terry > From: deanh61@hotmail.co.uk > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:05:50 +0100 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > Oh for goodness sake what difference does it make? - everyone knows what I meant by christian name - and since the subject seemed to be finished anyway then I really dont see the point of you making your 'correction'. > > > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:31:07 +0000 > > From: garymarian@comcast.net > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > Hi, > > Perhaps it's time to change the subject heading to a broader and more accurate term, such as 'Given-name' instead of 'Christian name' which is out of date in today's expanded lexicon. > > Cheers, > > Gary, (of Owlcotes West Riding descent) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:04:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Ok thanks Mel, I'll check Yorkshire BMD for my own Yorkshire relatives. > > > > Heather > > > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:07:09 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > No, probably not doing anything wrong. > > > > > > I have found that for many of my Yorkshire ancestors which were in the > > > Yeadon & Otley areas the GRO Index (FreeBMD) gives the registration district > > > - typically Wharfedale or Otley but the Yorkshire BMD indexes give me > > > Yeadon, Rawdon, etc which are the villages themselves. Perhaps for Kirkstall > > > they didn't break it down. > > > > > > Mel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > Sent: October 24, 2010 6:32 AM > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > Hi Mel, thanks for the reply. > > > > > > I found the birth index on FreeBMD yes. Actually the Robert from 1891 and > > > King from the earlier censuses were both marked as being born the same place > > > anyway so it wouldnt matter - but I did look up Yorkshire BMD as you > > > suggested but couldnt see where it specified a village, just reg district of > > > Kirkstall as on FreeBMD - am I doing something wrong? > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:26:23 -0400 > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > Hi Heather: > > > > > > > > You don't say where you found the birth registration info. I am assuming > > > > FreeBMD. You should cross reference with Yorkshire BMD if you haven't > > > > already. > > > > It will specify the village in each case but not the quarter as FreeBMD > > > > does. > > > > Confirming the village may add further confidence in your decision. > > > > > > > > Mel Smith > > > > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > > Sent: October 22, 2010 2:53 PM > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi thanks Nivard I agree with what you say, I was interested to hear if > > > > people thought the same as me - I dont think its likely that he would have > > > > bothered with deed poll either. > > > > > > > > As for the marriage certificate, I dont know, I've just started > > > researching > > > > this family online tonight and its for someone else as a favour, but its > > > an > > > > interesting point, although the Thomas on the census with Robert and with > > > > King have the same occupation anyway. > > > > > > > > I think since there is a birth but no suitable marriage or death for King > > > > Harrison that I will take him to be Robert. > > > > > > > > thanks again > > > > > > > > Heather. > > > > > > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:15:02 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > > > > > There would be nothing to stop him using Robert as a forename (you can > > > > > perhaps understand him not wanting to use King <g>) > > > > > > > > > > Although there were change of name by deed poll, it is highly unlikely > > > the > > > > > > > > > average person would bother with the expense of it > > > > > > > > > > It has always been the case that as long as you are not doing it to > > > > defraud > > > > > or evade the law, you can call yourself whatever you want to > > > > > > > > > > If he gave Robert as his name, that is what would be recorded, no proof > > > > was > > > > > asked for until quite recent > > > > > > > > > > On the marriage certificate, does the fathers name and occupation match > > > > that > > > > > you know for King ? > > > > > > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > > > > > > > > > I am researching a family called Harrison, the mother Elizabeth is > > > from > > > > > > Kirkstall and the father Thomas is from Masham. It's their son Robert > > > > > > Harrison that is the cause of my query. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert was born c1869 in Burley, Leeds. I believe I have found the > > > > family > > > > > > in Middlesbrough in 1891 (Burley mistranscribed as Baster). > > > > > > > > > > > > On trying to trace this family back, Robert isnt there although his > > > > > > siblings are the same. In Roberts place however, born the same year > > > > there > > > > > > is a boy named King Harrison. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have found a birth in the index of King Harrison of the right year > > > > > > (1869) in the district of Kirkstall - but no birth for Robert Harrison > > > > > > > > > sticks out (there is one in 1870 but there is another Robert Harrison > > > > born > > > > > > Leeds at that time). > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it likely that Robert changed his name from King to Robert? (on the > > > > > > > > > first census that has him as Robert he is 22). If so, is there likely > > > to > > > > > > > > > > be any documentation of this? He married as Robert by the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for any help and opinions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not insulted or thin skinned, merely mildly irritated. It really isnt important. best wishes to you too. Heather > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:40:29 +0000 > From: garymarian@comcast.net > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > "Oh for goodness sake", who would know that you were the last word on the subject? We are all here to trade comment and data in a friendly manner, even those with thin skin. No insult intended. > Best wishes, > Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 12:05:50 PM > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > Oh for goodness sake what difference does it make? - everyone knows what I meant by christian name - and since the subject seemed to be finished anyway then I really dont see the point of you making your 'correction'. > > > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:31:07 +0000 > > From: garymarian@comcast.net > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > Hi, > > Perhaps it's time to change the subject heading to a broader and more accurate term, such as 'Given-name' instead of 'Christian name' which is out of date in today's expanded lexicon. > > Cheers, > > Gary, (of Owlcotes West Riding descent) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:04:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Ok thanks Mel, I'll check Yorkshire BMD for my own Yorkshire relatives. > > > > Heather > > > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:07:09 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > No, probably not doing anything wrong. > > > > > > I have found that for many of my Yorkshire ancestors which were in the > > > Yeadon & Otley areas the GRO Index (FreeBMD) gives the registration district > > > - typically Wharfedale or Otley but the Yorkshire BMD indexes give me > > > Yeadon, Rawdon, etc which are the villages themselves. Perhaps for Kirkstall > > > they didn't break it down. > > > > > > Mel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > Sent: October 24, 2010 6:32 AM > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > Hi Mel, thanks for the reply. > > > > > > I found the birth index on FreeBMD yes. Actually the Robert from 1891 and > > > King from the earlier censuses were both marked as being born the same place > > > anyway so it wouldnt matter - but I did look up Yorkshire BMD as you > > > suggested but couldnt see where it specified a village, just reg district of > > > Kirkstall as on FreeBMD - am I doing something wrong? > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:26:23 -0400 > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > Hi Heather: > > > > > > > > You don't say where you found the birth registration info. I am assuming > > > > FreeBMD. You should cross reference with Yorkshire BMD if you haven't > > > > already. > > > > It will specify the village in each case but not the quarter as FreeBMD > > > > does. > > > > Confirming the village may add further confidence in your decision. > > > > > > > > Mel Smith > > > > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > > Sent: October 22, 2010 2:53 PM > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi thanks Nivard I agree with what you say, I was interested to hear if > > > > people thought the same as me - I dont think its likely that he would have > > > > bothered with deed poll either. > > > > > > > > As for the marriage certificate, I dont know, I've just started > > > researching > > > > this family online tonight and its for someone else as a favour, but its > > > an > > > > interesting point, although the Thomas on the census with Robert and with > > > > King have the same occupation anyway. > > > > > > > > I think since there is a birth but no suitable marriage or death for King > > > > Harrison that I will take him to be Robert. > > > > > > > > thanks again > > > > > > > > Heather. > > > > > > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:15:02 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > > > > > There would be nothing to stop him using Robert as a forename (you can > > > > > perhaps understand him not wanting to use King <g>) > > > > > > > > > > Although there were change of name by deed poll, it is highly unlikely > > > the > > > > > > > > > average person would bother with the expense of it > > > > > > > > > > It has always been the case that as long as you are not doing it to > > > > defraud > > > > > or evade the law, you can call yourself whatever you want to > > > > > > > > > > If he gave Robert as his name, that is what would be recorded, no proof > > > > was > > > > > asked for until quite recent > > > > > > > > > > On the marriage certificate, does the fathers name and occupation match > > > > that > > > > > you know for King ? > > > > > > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > > > > > > > > > I am researching a family called Harrison, the mother Elizabeth is > > > from > > > > > > Kirkstall and the father Thomas is from Masham. It's their son Robert > > > > > > Harrison that is the cause of my query. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert was born c1869 in Burley, Leeds. I believe I have found the > > > > family > > > > > > in Middlesbrough in 1891 (Burley mistranscribed as Baster). > > > > > > > > > > > > On trying to trace this family back, Robert isnt there although his > > > > > > siblings are the same. In Roberts place however, born the same year > > > > there > > > > > > is a boy named King Harrison. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have found a birth in the index of King Harrison of the right year > > > > > > (1869) in the district of Kirkstall - but no birth for Robert Harrison > > > > > > > > > sticks out (there is one in 1870 but there is another Robert Harrison > > > > born > > > > > > Leeds at that time). > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it likely that Robert changed his name from King to Robert? (on the > > > > > > > > > first census that has him as Robert he is 22). If so, is there likely > > > to > > > > > > > > > > be any documentation of this? He married as Robert by the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for any help and opinions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

"Oh for goodness sake", who would know that you were the last word on the subject? We are all here to trade comment and data in a friendly manner, even those with thin skin. No insult intended. Best wishes, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 12:05:50 PM Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? Oh for goodness sake what difference does it make? - everyone knows what I meant by christian name - and since the subject seemed to be finished anyway then I really dont see the point of you making your 'correction'. > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:31:07 +0000 > From: garymarian@comcast.net > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Hi, > Perhaps it's time to change the subject heading to a broader and more accurate term, such as 'Given-name' instead of 'Christian name' which is out of date in today's expanded lexicon. > Cheers, > Gary, (of Owlcotes West Riding descent) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:04:23 AM > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > Ok thanks Mel, I'll check Yorkshire BMD for my own Yorkshire relatives. > > Heather > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:07:09 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > Hi Heather > > > > No, probably not doing anything wrong. > > > > I have found that for many of my Yorkshire ancestors which were in the > > Yeadon & Otley areas the GRO Index (FreeBMD) gives the registration district > > - typically Wharfedale or Otley but the Yorkshire BMD indexes give me > > Yeadon, Rawdon, etc which are the villages themselves. Perhaps for Kirkstall > > they didn't break it down. > > > > Mel > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > Sent: October 24, 2010 6:32 AM > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Hi Mel, thanks for the reply. > > > > I found the birth index on FreeBMD yes. Actually the Robert from 1891 and > > King from the earlier censuses were both marked as being born the same place > > anyway so it wouldnt matter - but I did look up Yorkshire BMD as you > > suggested but couldnt see where it specified a village, just reg district of > > Kirkstall as on FreeBMD - am I doing something wrong? > > > > Heather > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:26:23 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Hi Heather: > > > > > > You don't say where you found the birth registration info. I am assuming > > > FreeBMD. You should cross reference with Yorkshire BMD if you haven't > > > already. > > > It will specify the village in each case but not the quarter as FreeBMD > > > does. > > > Confirming the village may add further confidence in your decision. > > > > > > Mel Smith > > > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > Sent: October 22, 2010 2:53 PM > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > Hi thanks Nivard I agree with what you say, I was interested to hear if > > > people thought the same as me - I dont think its likely that he would have > > > bothered with deed poll either. > > > > > > As for the marriage certificate, I dont know, I've just started > > researching > > > this family online tonight and its for someone else as a favour, but its > > an > > > interesting point, although the Thomas on the census with Robert and with > > > King have the same occupation anyway. > > > > > > I think since there is a birth but no suitable marriage or death for King > > > Harrison that I will take him to be Robert. > > > > > > thanks again > > > > > > Heather. > > > > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:15:02 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > > > There would be nothing to stop him using Robert as a forename (you can > > > > perhaps understand him not wanting to use King <g>) > > > > > > > > Although there were change of name by deed poll, it is highly unlikely > > the > > > > > > > average person would bother with the expense of it > > > > > > > > It has always been the case that as long as you are not doing it to > > > defraud > > > > or evade the law, you can call yourself whatever you want to > > > > > > > > If he gave Robert as his name, that is what would be recorded, no proof > > > was > > > > asked for until quite recent > > > > > > > > On the marriage certificate, does the fathers name and occupation match > > > that > > > > you know for King ? > > > > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > > > > > > > I am researching a family called Harrison, the mother Elizabeth is > > from > > > > > Kirkstall and the father Thomas is from Masham. It's their son Robert > > > > > Harrison that is the cause of my query. > > > > > > > > > > Robert was born c1869 in Burley, Leeds. I believe I have found the > > > family > > > > > in Middlesbrough in 1891 (Burley mistranscribed as Baster). > > > > > > > > > > On trying to trace this family back, Robert isnt there although his > > > > > siblings are the same. In Roberts place however, born the same year > > > there > > > > > is a boy named King Harrison. > > > > > > > > > > I have found a birth in the index of King Harrison of the right year > > > > > (1869) in the district of Kirkstall - but no birth for Robert Harrison > > > > > > > sticks out (there is one in 1870 but there is another Robert Harrison > > > born > > > > > Leeds at that time). > > > > > > > > > > Is it likely that Robert changed his name from King to Robert? (on the > > > > > > > first census that has him as Robert he is 22). If so, is there likely > > to > > > > > > > > be any documentation of this? He married as Robert by the way. > > > > > > > > > > thanks for any help and opinions. > > > > > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry Nivard - posted at the same time. > From: ovington1@sky.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:11:28 +0100 > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Try > > http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/ > > For all local registrars indexes (and more besides) > > Select the County from the drop down menu on the left and click "County" > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > Could you post a website for Yorkshire BMD's? > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/ there you go. > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:08:21 -0700 > From: carolandjoemarlo@yahoo.com > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Could you post a website for Yorkshire BMD's? > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: h dean <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 2:05:50 PM > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > Oh for goodness sake what difference does it make? - everyone knows what I meant > by christian name - and since the subject seemed to be finished anyway then I > really dont see the point of you making your 'correction'. > > > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:31:07 +0000 > > From: garymarian@comcast.net > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > > > Hi, > > Perhaps it's time to change the subject heading to a broader and more accurate > >term, such as 'Given-name' instead of 'Christian name' which is out of date in > >today's expanded lexicon. > > > > Cheers, > > Gary, (of Owlcotes West Riding descent) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:04:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Ok thanks Mel, I'll check Yorkshire BMD for my own Yorkshire relatives. > > > > Heather > > > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:07:09 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > No, probably not doing anything wrong. > > > > > > I have found that for many of my Yorkshire ancestors which were in the > > > Yeadon & Otley areas the GRO Index (FreeBMD) gives the registration district > > > > - typically Wharfedale or Otley but the Yorkshire BMD indexes give me > > > Yeadon, Rawdon, etc which are the villages themselves. Perhaps for Kirkstall > > > > they didn't break it down. > > > > > > Mel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > Sent: October 24, 2010 6:32 AM > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > Hi Mel, thanks for the reply. > > > > > > I found the birth index on FreeBMD yes. Actually the Robert from 1891 and > > > King from the earlier censuses were both marked as being born the same place > > > > anyway so it wouldnt matter - but I did look up Yorkshire BMD as you > > > suggested but couldnt see where it specified a village, just reg district of > > > > Kirkstall as on FreeBMD - am I doing something wrong? > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:26:23 -0400 > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > Hi Heather: > > > > > > > > You don't say where you found the birth registration info. I am assuming > > > > FreeBMD. You should cross reference with Yorkshire BMD if you haven't > > > > already. > > > > It will specify the village in each case but not the quarter as FreeBMD > > > > does. > > > > Confirming the village may add further confidence in your decision. > > > > > > > > Mel Smith > > > > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > > Sent: October 22, 2010 2:53 PM > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi thanks Nivard I agree with what you say, I was interested to hear if > > > > people thought the same as me - I dont think its likely that he would have > > > > > bothered with deed poll either. > > > > > > > > As for the marriage certificate, I dont know, I've just started > > > researching > > > > this family online tonight and its for someone else as a favour, but its > > > an > > > > interesting point, although the Thomas on the census with Robert and with > > > > King have the same occupation anyway. > > > > > > > > I think since there is a birth but no suitable marriage or death for King > > > > Harrison that I will take him to be Robert. > > > > > > > > thanks again > > > > > > > > Heather. > > > > > > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:15:02 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > > > > > There would be nothing to stop him using Robert as a forename (you can > > > > > perhaps understand him not wanting to use King <g>) > > > > > > > > > > Although there were change of name by deed poll, it is highly unlikely > > > the > > > > > > > > > average person would bother with the expense of it > > > > > > > > > > It has always been the case that as long as you are not doing it to > > > > defraud > > > > > or evade the law, you can call yourself whatever you want to > > > > > > > > > > If he gave Robert as his name, that is what would be recorded, no proof > > > > was > > > > > asked for until quite recent > > > > > > > > > > On the marriage certificate, does the fathers name and occupation match > > > > that > > > > > you know for King ? > > > > > > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > > > > > > > > > I am researching a family called Harrison, the mother Elizabeth is > > > from > > > > > > Kirkstall and the father Thomas is from Masham. It's their son Robert > > > > > > Harrison that is the cause of my query. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert was born c1869 in Burley, Leeds. I believe I have found the > > > > family > > > > > > in Middlesbrough in 1891 (Burley mistranscribed as Baster). > > > > > > > > > > > > On trying to trace this family back, Robert isnt there although his > > > > > > siblings are the same. In Roberts place however, born the same year > > > > there > > > > > > is a boy named King Harrison. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have found a birth in the index of King Harrison of the right year > > > > > > (1869) in the district of Kirkstall - but no birth for Robert Harrison > > > > > > > > > > sticks out (there is one in 1870 but there is another Robert Harrison > > > > born > > > > > > Leeds at that time). > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it likely that Robert changed his name from King to Robert? (on the > > > > > > > > > > first census that has him as Robert he is 22). If so, is there likely > > > to > > > > > > > > > > be any documentation of this? He married as Robert by the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for any help and opinions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Try http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/ For all local registrars indexes (and more besides) Select the County from the drop down menu on the left and click "County" Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Could you post a website for Yorkshire BMD's?

Oh for goodness sake what difference does it make? - everyone knows what I meant by christian name - and since the subject seemed to be finished anyway then I really dont see the point of you making your 'correction'. > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:31:07 +0000 > From: garymarian@comcast.net > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Given-Name Change? > > Hi, > Perhaps it's time to change the subject heading to a broader and more accurate term, such as 'Given-name' instead of 'Christian name' which is out of date in today's expanded lexicon. > Cheers, > Gary, (of Owlcotes West Riding descent) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "h dean" <deanh61@hotmail.co.uk> > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:04:23 AM > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > Ok thanks Mel, I'll check Yorkshire BMD for my own Yorkshire relatives. > > Heather > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:07:09 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > Hi Heather > > > > No, probably not doing anything wrong. > > > > I have found that for many of my Yorkshire ancestors which were in the > > Yeadon & Otley areas the GRO Index (FreeBMD) gives the registration district > > - typically Wharfedale or Otley but the Yorkshire BMD indexes give me > > Yeadon, Rawdon, etc which are the villages themselves. Perhaps for Kirkstall > > they didn't break it down. > > > > Mel > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > Sent: October 24, 2010 6:32 AM > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Hi Mel, thanks for the reply. > > > > I found the birth index on FreeBMD yes. Actually the Robert from 1891 and > > King from the earlier censuses were both marked as being born the same place > > anyway so it wouldnt matter - but I did look up Yorkshire BMD as you > > suggested but couldnt see where it specified a village, just reg district of > > Kirkstall as on FreeBMD - am I doing something wrong? > > > > Heather > > > > > From: melvynsmith@gmail.com > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:26:23 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > Hi Heather: > > > > > > You don't say where you found the birth registration info. I am assuming > > > FreeBMD. You should cross reference with Yorkshire BMD if you haven't > > > already. > > > It will specify the village in each case but not the quarter as FreeBMD > > > does. > > > Confirming the village may add further confidence in your decision. > > > > > > Mel Smith > > > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > [mailto:eng-yorkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of h dean > > > Sent: October 22, 2010 2:53 PM > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > > Hi thanks Nivard I agree with what you say, I was interested to hear if > > > people thought the same as me - I dont think its likely that he would have > > > bothered with deed poll either. > > > > > > As for the marriage certificate, I dont know, I've just started > > researching > > > this family online tonight and its for someone else as a favour, but its > > an > > > interesting point, although the Thomas on the census with Robert and with > > > King have the same occupation anyway. > > > > > > I think since there is a birth but no suitable marriage or death for King > > > Harrison that I will take him to be Robert. > > > > > > thanks again > > > > > > Heather. > > > > > > > From: ovington1@sky.com > > > > To: eng-yorkshire@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:15:02 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [YORKSHIRE] Christian Name Change? > > > > > > > > Hi Heather > > > > > > > > There would be nothing to stop him using Robert as a forename (you can > > > > perhaps understand him not wanting to use King <g>) > > > > > > > > Although there were change of name by deed poll, it is highly unlikely > > the > > > > > > > average person would bother with the expense of it > > > > > > > > It has always been the case that as long as you are not doing it to > > > defraud > > > > or evade the law, you can call yourself whatever you want to > > > > > > > > If he gave Robert as his name, that is what would be recorded, no proof > > > was > > > > asked for until quite recent > > > > > > > > On the marriage certificate, does the fathers name and occupation match > > > that > > > > you know for King ? > > > > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > > > > > > > I am researching a family called Harrison, the mother Elizabeth is > > from > > > > > Kirkstall and the father Thomas is from Masham. It's their son Robert > > > > > Harrison that is the cause of my query. > > > > > > > > > > Robert was born c1869 in Burley, Leeds. I believe I have found the > > > family > > > > > in Middlesbrough in 1891 (Burley mistranscribed as Baster). > > > > > > > > > > On trying to trace this family back, Robert isnt there although his > > > > > siblings are the same. In Roberts place however, born the same year > > > there > > > > > is a boy named King Harrison. > > > > > > > > > > I have found a birth in the index of King Harrison of the right year > > > > > (1869) in the district of Kirkstall - but no birth for Robert Harrison > > > > > > > sticks out (there is one in 1870 but there is another Robert Harrison > > > born > > > > > Leeds at that time). > > > > > > > > > > Is it likely that Robert changed his name from King to Robert? (on the > > > > > > > first census that has him as Robert he is 22). If so, is there likely > > to > > > > > > > > be any documentation of this? He married as Robert by the way. > > > > > > > > > > thanks for any help and opinions. > > > > > > > > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ > > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-YORKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Perhaps it's time to change the subject heading to a broader and more accurate term, such as 'Given-name' instead of 'Christian name' which is out of date in today's expanded lexicon. Cheers, Gary, (of Owlcotes West Riding descent) Gary I always use the title CHRISTIAN NAME and point out when running courses that pre 1837 we are looking mainly at Church records, in particular Baptism or Christening records, this makes the Christian name title the only correct one. Regards Patrick Williams