Derek, maybe I'm the lucky one today, maybe, maybe not My John SUTCLIFFE born Mountain around 1841 I just got the marriage certificate and his father was William Sutcliffe. Seems worth checking out to me . I now show my ignorance.What exactly is a 'knurr and spell match'? So many people there too.! This is fascinating stuff and in the right area. Of course with SUTCLIFFE so common it could be any William, or one related or even John's father. They could have been there anyway. So who can tell me about 'knurr and spell' and the scoring for it ? Very interesting. Valerie N Yorks Maybe I should add the SUTCLIFFE name to my list for 1841 references .Mountain is the place I'm looking for.