'You are obviously a beginner and I am an expert and a professional. These lists are mostly populated by beginners who have difficulty in understanding what those of us who have been in genealogy and family history a very long time are trying to do in endeavouring to show them how PROPER research is conducted.' Good Heavens Roy, were you never a beginner? I am, and value all the help I can get. I find it very insulting of you to say that we beginners do not understand how you 'experts' try to help us. Of course we understand!! And we are grateful should we get the assistance. Jo

I don't usually get involved in these silly minor sqabbles but Roy is out of order. I agree with John below in that I thought we were all here to help each other. Most of us have carried out research the 'old way' and do not need to be preached to about the old days. We have all got to move with the times. I didn't answer to make the above points necessarily, but mainly to point out to Roy that the list IS NOT full of "untrained and uneducated people", a comment which I feel was insulting to many on this, and other lists. I respect your arguments Roy and they do hold water concerning accuracy, but please do not put everyone in the same boat, and resort to what may be considered insults. Never be afraid to ask for help Harry!! We all need it some times and don't let one person put you off. Regards from David. -------Original Message------- From: John Green Date: 22/10/2006 22:40:35 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up Hi all, My three-pennorth for what it's worth. So I've got an ancestry sub and a spare 5 minutes - why shouldn't I help someone if I can (there's lots of people out there who have helped me in the past). Sorry, Harry but Roy's boorish answer should not be taken as typical for a member of this or any other list, most of whom are only too ready to help. Regards John Green Roy Stockdill wrote: > From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> > > >> Dont worry youself Roy, some kind person has already done the look up >> and kindly forwarded it to me. As a reasonably new person on this site >> I wasn't aware that there wasn't a free look up site, however it >> didn't take them but 15 mins to get back to me. I would suggest in the >> future that you yourself just ignore my e-mail for look ups then it >> wouldn't be a problem for you. >> >> Regards >> Harry >> > > I won't worry myself about it! However, the SKS obviously has an > Ancestry subscription of which you are taking advantage. > > I am very sorry but I am afraid I have rather strong views about > freeloading off other people's kindness (and pocket) which I won't > change. Everyone who knows me knows that I am always happy to help > anyone with advice and the benefit of my very long and substantial > experience. The one thing I will not do is other people's research for > them, since they don't learn anything that way. > > You see, by my post you've learnt something - ie that there is no free > lookup site for the 1901 census. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> > Reading the comments from a few people on the list regarding your > e-mails to me :- > > I rest my case. > > Regards > Harry Harry, I am afraid that neither you nor they understand me or what I am talking about, You are obviously a beginner and I am an expert and a professional. These lists are mostly populated by beginners who have difficulty in understanding what those of us who have been in genealogy and family history a very long time are trying to do in endeavouring to show them how PROPER research is conducted. I do not see genealogy as simply hanging around on mailing lists and asking naïve questions or expecting others to do look-ups for them. That is the equivalent of being in a kindergarten class for 5-year-olds on their first day at school and those who do this are simply playing at it with no real understanding of what they are doing. To me genealogy is an academic discipline that needs to be undertaken seriously and requires training, knowledge and, above all, experience. This requires extensive knowledge of records, resources and where to find them, how to assemble, assess and analyse evidence, how to recognise the wheat from the chaff, how to know when something is right and when it's blatantly wrong, how to build a pedigree carefully and with evidence to back it. In brief, it's the difference between complete amateurs and seasoned professionals. I rest my case, and I can only hope that one day you may acquire the experience and intelligence to understand it. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hello Harry I'll help you anytime don't be afraid to ask because of ONE person. Regards Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up > Message received and understood SIR ! > > BTW please do not reply to my e-mails asking for assistance, I cannot do > with going through this everytime I make a mistake. > > Sorry to the rest of the list. > > Regards > Harry > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

From: "Gill Smith" <[email protected]> > I don't object to doing look-ups for anyone who is just starting out. > It's not seen as taking advantage if you can help someone. > > Rootschat UK is a free site where help and look ups are freely given > and it's a pity that ethos isn't more widespread. What a ridiculous > fuss about an innocent request. Gill> We will have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid. You seem to miss my point. I do not object to helping newcomers - far from it, that's what my 8,500-word Newbies' Guide is for - but I will not do other people's research for them. That way they never learn anything! I am a firm believer that everyone should at least read one decent book on how to research properly before being let loose on the Internet. The only way you can use the vast Internet genealogical resources is if you have had a proper grounding in the principles of PROPER research first. That means knowing the basics and, even better, actually going to record offices. Unfortunately, so many newcomers to genealogy have never done that, thus they flail around in the dark not knowing what they are doing. The end result is usually a totally inaccurate family tree which will be inflicted upon others - none of this helps genealogy in the long term. But, then, what do I know? I'm just a boring old fart to most, I expect, except that I am a professional and have been involved in genealogy and family history for 30 years. I am an old-fashioned genealogist and the whole thing seems to be going in a direction I don't much care for. It is full of untrained, uneducated people who have very little idea of what they are doing but think they can build a family tree without too much effort. Sorry - but it's not possible! -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

I don't object to doing look-ups for anyone who is just starting out. It's not seen as taking advantage if you can help someone. Rootschat UK is a free site where help and look ups are freely given and it's a pity that ethos isn't more widespread. What a ridiculous fuss about an innocent request. Gill ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up > Boys, boys, boys....let's not squabble! It was an innocent mistake I am > sure. I don't mean to take advantage ever, but I must say there are > several > wonderful people on this list who have stepped up and offered to help me > several > times. I am, as I am sure others are too, very grateful for their > assistance. > > This is a wonderful group of people and I enjoy reading all of the posts. > Roy, you are a valuable member and I am sure Harry did not mean to "take > advantage". > > Let me just mention that I would be very happy to look up things on the US > census for anyone. I can't begin to thank many on this list, especially > Christine and Keith. > > With best regards to all, > Lou Toms > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> > Then all you had to do was kindly inform me that there was no free > look up for the 1901 census ( a short but to the point answer ) that > would have sufficed, instead you spend your time typing sentences > insulting me. Again as I said please ignore all my future e-mails on > the list asking for help. > > Harry < Harry, Could I respectfully suggest you read my Newbies' Guide URL below)? Either that or borrow a decent book on how to trace your family history from a library? I was not insulting you, merely point out that asking for lookups and, in effect, asking for others to do your research for you, is not the right way to go about it. I was actually trying to help you, if you think about it. Unfortunately, newcomers (and I have been in this business since long before the Internet existed) seem to think all they have to do is ask and somebody will do it for them. I reiterate - I am very happy to show you HOW to do something but not to do it for you. I possess very substantial knowledge that you will need one of these days and will be here to give it if you ask. I trust that is clear? -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

This him? Just a thought or two to stir it up. 1881 Dwelling: Low Farm Census Place: Whitley Upper, York Piece 4378 Folio 89 Page 11 Fanny BOOTH U 57 F Tong, York, England Servant (Head) House Keeper (Dom) Ralph BELL U 68 M ...mucky, Westmorland, England Widower Farm Labourer Sh... HELLAS 20 M Tong, York, England Unm Farm Labourer You'll find Lazarus Bell in the 1881, and maybe Jane MILLER who is regarded as a 'mere' visitor. 1881 Dwelling: 106 Mount St Census Place: Bradford, York, England Piece 4443 Folio 62 Page 4 Lazurus BELL M 26 M Bradford, York Head Carter Alice BELL M 27 F Birkenshaw, York Wife Ruth H. BELL 2 F Bradford, York Daur Charles W. BELL 7 m M Bradford, York Son Jane BELL U 29 F Bradford, York Boarder Worsted Spinner In 1881 Charles BELL is probably living up the road at number 240. Plenty to chew over, I would say! Howard Geddes

From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> > Dont worry youself Roy, some kind person has already done the look up > and kindly forwarded it to me. As a reasonably new person on this site > I wasn't aware that there wasn't a free look up site, however it > didn't take them but 15 mins to get back to me. I would suggest in the > future that you yourself just ignore my e-mail for look ups then it > wouldn't be a problem for you. > > Regards > Harry I won't worry myself about it! However, the SKS obviously has an Ancestry subscription of which you are taking advantage. I am very sorry but I am afraid I have rather strong views about freeloading off other people's kindness (and pocket) which I won't change. Everyone who knows me knows that I am always happy to help anyone with advice and the benefit of my very long and substantial experience. The one thing I will not do is other people's research for them, since they don't learn anything that way. You see, by my post you've learnt something - ie that there is no free lookup site for the 1901 census. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> > Hi Listers, > Would SKS be able to look up the 1901 census in Bradford Yorks for the > addresses of a Rebecca Midgley born 1867/8 with son John Midgley and > her family, also for Arthur Shackleton b1877 with wife Sarah E > Shackleton and family. > > Regards > Harry (Canada)> Please forgive me, but what prevents you from doing this for yourself? Both the 1901 census websites, at Ancestry and TNA site run by Genes Reunited, are pay-per-view sites, so anyone doing this will have to spend money on your behalf. Surely you can buy some units and do the lookups for yourself? Ancestry is the better value for a one-off purchase, since £4.95 will buy you 10 image downloads, so it's best to draw up a list before you start and get others as well. As far as I am aware, there is no FREE surname index to the 1901. I have the 1901 census for Bradford on CD but it's street-indexed, not surname indexed. And to go through the whole of Bradford looking for Rebecca Midgley would take me about a month, since Midgley is probably the most common surname in Bradford! I have Bradford Midgleys in my own ancestry but Rebecca wasn't one of mine. Sorry to be rather blunt but I do feel this is one of those occasions when a little personal expenditure and effort is required, rather than expecting others to do it for you out of their own pocket. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

[email protected] wrote snip<Arthur Shackleton b1877 with wife Sarah E Shackleton and family. Hi Living it could looks like 12 Wellington St Christine 1901 England Census about Arthur Shackleton Name:Arthur Shackleton Age:25 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1876 Relation:Head Spouse's name:Sarah E Gender:Male Where born:Bradford, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish:Bradford Ecclesiastical parish:Laister Dyke St Mary County/Island:Yorkshire Country:England Registration district:Bradford Sub-registration district:Bowling ED, institution, or vessel:42 Neighbors:View others on page Household schedule number:54 Household Members:NameAge Arthur Shackleton25 David Shackleton10 months Sarah E Shackleton29 Uriah Shackleton3 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 368 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now!

[email protected] wrote snip<Would SKS be able to look up the 1901 census in Bradford Yorks for the addresses of a Rebecca Midgley born 1867/8 Hi Living 37 Quill Street Christine 1901 England Census about Rebecca Midgley Name:Rebecca Midgley Age:33 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1868 Relation:Head Gender:Female Where born:Bradford, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish:Bradford Ecclesiastical parish:Bowling St Bartholomew County/Island:Yorkshire Registration district:Bradford Sub-registration district:Bradford East ED, institution, or vessel:18 Neighbors:View others on page Household schedule number:41 Household Members:NameAge Fred Midgley9 John W Midgley11 Rebecca Midgley33 Eva Shackleton12 Margaret Shackleton58 Uriah Shackleton60 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 368 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now!

Yes you did Barry but I didn't know I was doing something wrong by asking for help. All I say is that when I ask for help then the ones that don't wish to help me then don't waste your time thats all and the ones that do then I appreciate very much. Regards Harry

Hi List, First let me apologize for what you all had to read on the list, if I would have had Roys e-mail address believe me I would have answered him off line. To Roy, I value guidance from people like yourself who are obviously very experienced when searching for their ancestors and maybe its a full time project for you I don't know, I just know that I spend very little time on the subject and rely on peoples good nature to help me anyway possible, if I can get from A to B faster then all well and good, and if I can help people also I feel very good about myself if I do, this maybe is not the way you preach that it should be done but it is my way. You should also accept other peoples ways in which to acheive their goals which may be different from yours, having said that I have already told you that you needn't reply to any requests I may have for help from the list in the future, this should prevent any further rhetoric between our two selves. And lastly I would like to thank the list members who aired their views regarding this subject. Regards Harry

Reading the comments from a few people on the list regarding your e-mails to me :- I rest my case. Regards Harry

Message received and understood SIR ! BTW please do not reply to my e-mails asking for assistance, I cannot do with going through this everytime I make a mistake. Sorry to the rest of the list. Regards Harry

Boys, boys, boys....let's not squabble! It was an innocent mistake I am sure. I don't mean to take advantage ever, but I must say there are several wonderful people on this list who have stepped up and offered to help me several times. I am, as I am sure others are too, very grateful for their assistance. This is a wonderful group of people and I enjoy reading all of the posts. Roy, you are a valuable member and I am sure Harry did not mean to "take advantage". Let me just mention that I would be very happy to look up things on the US census for anyone. I can't begin to thank many on this list, especially Christine and Keith. With best regards to all, Lou Toms

Then all you had to do was kindly inform me that there was no free look up for the 1901 census ( a short but to the point answer ) that would have sufficed, instead you spend your time typing sentences insulting me. Again as I said please ignore all my future e-mails on the list asking for help. Harry

My apologies to all list members for asking for a 1901 census look-up. Regards Harry

Dont worry youself Roy, some kind person has already done the look up and kindly forwarded it to me. As a reasonably new person on this site I wasn't aware that there wasn't a free look up site, however it didn't take them but 15 mins to get back to me. I would suggest in the future that you yourself just ignore my e-mail for look ups then it wouldn't be a problem for you. Regards Harry