Hi Ros, you must mean the Chemist lot? If so, I have a good bit of info on them (they lead back to George GEDDES and Catherine SUTHERLAND in Sandend, Fordyce parish, BAN around 1812), and so far despite living no more than a mile apart I cannot establish a connection with my lot who also originate from Fordyce parish, BAN, so you'd have thought there was a connection. But no! If not, tell me more! Happy to swop info off-list. Regards Howard Geddes PS: my interest in Bradford is because a BOTTOMLEY family (Cornelius BOTTOMLEY & Rebecca ARMITAGE) moved up to Glasgow in the 1860s, and their daughter Louisa BOTTOMLEY married a Banffie William WATSON - my maternal gdparents. Hence got more interested than usual seeing Grace MILLER coming in the opposite direction!

From: "Charles Greenhough" > Thank you for the useful information that one can get a free look up > on Ancestry from a library in London. > > Charles > Expatriot Yorkshireman > Suffolk UK I am quite certain that if you look locally you will find a library somewhere not far from you that has it. For instance, my local library in Watford, Herts, has access to Ancestry and it is increasingly being offered around the country. You simply need to ask someone! -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Thank you for the useful information that one can get a free look up on Ancestry from a library in London. Charles Expatriot Yorkshireman Suffolk UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up From: "Glenys Thornton" <[email protected]> > I really shouldn't read emails in the early hours (just after minight > here) especially NOT from Roy Stockdill whose attitude constntly winds > me up! For one who is allegedly so knowledgeable he has missed the > fact that Ancestry is currently providing free access to the 1901 > census on its uk site. It doesn't offer the complete transcript but > sufficient to give names. ages, places of birth and the vital > references to enable others to help.> Glenys But it doesn't enable you to get addresses for named people, which is what the OP was asking. In any cases, you know perfectly well that Ancestry doesn't give anything for nothing! In the old saying, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Eventually, whatever you may think you are getting gratis, they will want you to sign up for a year's subscription and it's my experience that they want your credit card number before you get even a so-called "free trial". I have been told by others that once they get your card number, you can have the devil's own problems in cancelling. That is why I much prefer to support British firms like 1837online, Origins, etc. Before too long, all the censuses will be online at a number of different sites and we won't need an American multinational like Ancestry. That is why, on the rare occasions I do need access to a census I can't get elsewhere, I prefer to buy a one-off voucher that affords you 10 downloads for £4.95. Despite their regular entreaties, I will not take out an annual subscription with them. I would also take a modest bet that somewhere in the Ancestry small print it states that a subscription is for the user of ONE user only and that multiple look-ups for others are specifically forbidden. In any case, libraries and record offices around the world now provide free access to Ancestry - the SoG and FRC in London do, for instance - so it is open to anyone to find a library that has this access and do the look-ups for themselves. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Perhaps I could just make it abslutely clear what I am prepared to help listers with? 1) General and more specific advice on how to research your family tree, find ancestors, check out the accuracy of the information, find sources, locate record offices, where parish registers for the whole of Yorkshire are held, etc - in other words, specialist advice that is not easily obtainable elsewhere. To this end I possess, for instance, reference books that list the whereabouts of registers and bishop's transcripts for every parish in Yorkshire, sources I wouldn't expect too many to have. 2) With regard to this list and Bradford, specifically, I was born in Bradford, have considerable knowledge of the city and possess a number of books and old maps concerning the city not easily accessible to others. I am always happy to do "look-ups" (personally I dislike that phrase as being somewhat juvenile but nobody seems to have yet thought of a better one) in these books, which also contain many photos of old Bradford. I can often find streets and places that no longer exist, for instance, and have a good working knowledge of the city's history and records. 3) I possess a complete set of the censuses on the S & N CDs for the whole of Yorkshire from 1841-1901 (with the exception of the 1881 which they haven't done) and a complete transcription (NOT an index) of the 1851 census for Bradford on CD (available from the Bradford FHS). I am willing to help with searching these in cases where someone can demonstrate that they have made serious efforts to help themselves and do their own homework first and failed to find something. What I am not prepared to do - and I have always been utterly consistent in my view on this - is look-ups in resources that are easily available on the Internet and that requesters to "SKS" could easily do for themselves but won't, possibly because they don't wish to incur the expense. I will happily tell them HOW to do it in the hope they may learn something, but in my view spoonfeeding newcomers with look-ups doesn't, in the long term, actually help them to learn how to research. Sorry, but those are my views and I won't be changing them. Anyone who wants to pick my brains with regard to specific advice about a particular problem, or discover some information that isn't easily available elsewhere, is warmly welcomed. I really don't think I can be fairer than that! -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: "Glenys Thornton" <[email protected]> > I really shouldn't read emails in the early hours (just after minight > here) especially NOT from Roy Stockdill whose attitude constntly winds > me up! For one who is allegedly so knowledgeable he has missed the > fact that Ancestry is currently providing free access to the 1901 > census on its uk site. It doesn't offer the complete transcript but > sufficient to give names. ages, places of birth and the vital > references to enable others to help.> Glenys But it doesn't enable you to get addresses for named people, which is what the OP was asking. In any cases, you know perfectly well that Ancestry doesn't give anything for nothing! In the old saying, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Eventually, whatever you may think you are getting gratis, they will want you to sign up for a year's subscription and it's my experience that they want your credit card number before you get even a so-called "free trial". I have been told by others that once they get your card number, you can have the devil's own problems in cancelling. That is why I much prefer to support British firms like 1837online, Origins, etc. Before too long, all the censuses will be online at a number of different sites and we won't need an American multinational like Ancestry. That is why, on the rare occasions I do need access to a census I can't get elsewhere, I prefer to buy a one-off voucher that affords you 10 downloads for £4.95. Despite their regular entreaties, I will not take out an annual subscription with them. I would also take a modest bet that somewhere in the Ancestry small print it states that a subscription is for the user of ONE user only and that multiple look-ups for others are specifically forbidden. In any case, libraries and record offices around the world now provide free access to Ancestry - the SoG and FRC in London do, for instance - so it is open to anyone to find a library that has this access and do the look-ups for themselves. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

I am not and cannot be positive that the two Graces are the same person but I would lay a small wager that they are. I cannot find an alternative Scotch Grace to fit the bill. Daughter Jane's details hold up. I can see a reason why Grace would fudge her age. It is possible of course that Ralph was the real father of Jane although Jane is not a family name with my BELLs. Are you going to develop that little story you wrote Roy? I'm already casting it in my mind for a TV miniseries. Called "Amazing Grace" of course. Thanks Norman G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] Eat your heart out Catherine Cookson! > From: "Brian Harrison" <[email protected]> > >> Excuse my stupidity but how can you be sure that Grace Miller on the >> 1851 census is Grace Bell on the 1861 census? There ages do not match.> > > Ages in census returns are notoriously unreliable but you have a point. > > We can but assume that Norman checked the possibility and could not > find anyone else who fits. I had a quick look at the 1861 census and, > without doing an exhaustive check trying lots of possibilities, I confess > I > couldn't find anyone else who fits, either. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006 > >

Yes Howard, I believe this is my Ralph in Upper Whitley in 1881 although how does one definitely prove it? And who is the lovely Fanny? Is Ralph at it again? And that is his "daughter" Jane in 1881 with Ralph's son Lazarus at 106 Mount Street and that is his other son Charles at 240 Mount Street. In 1871 Ralph and the boys were at 8 Warwick Street while "wife" Grace has died. See that Jane's ages hold up so that Grace looks like the right "wife". Thanks for your information, Norman G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Geddes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] Eat your heart out Catherine Cookson! > This him? Just a thought or two to stir it up. > 1881 Dwelling: Low Farm > Census Place: Whitley Upper, York Piece 4378 Folio 89 Page 11 > Fanny BOOTH U 57 F Tong, York, England Servant (Head) House Keeper (Dom) > Ralph BELL U 68 M ...mucky, Westmorland, England Widower Farm Labourer > Sh... HELLAS 20 M Tong, York, England Unm Farm Labourer > You'll find Lazarus Bell in the 1881, and maybe Jane MILLER who is regarded > as a 'mere' visitor. > 1881 Dwelling: 106 Mount St > Census Place: Bradford, York, England Piece 4443 Folio 62 Page 4 > Lazurus BELL M 26 M Bradford, York Head Carter > Alice BELL M 27 F Birkenshaw, York Wife > Ruth H. BELL 2 F Bradford, York Daur > Charles W. BELL 7 m M Bradford, York Son > Jane BELL U 29 F Bradford, York Boarder Worsted Spinner > In 1881 Charles BELL is probably living up the road at number 240. > > Plenty to chew over, I would say! > > Howard Geddes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006 > >

Don't often see a GEDDES - you wouldn't be anything to do with the family from aberchirder I suppose? Ros ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Geddes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] Eat your heart out Catherine Cookson! > This him? Just a thought or two to stir it up. > 1881 Dwelling: Low Farm > Census Place: Whitley Upper, York Piece 4378 Folio 89 Page 11 > Fanny BOOTH U 57 F Tong, York, England Servant (Head) House Keeper (Dom) > Ralph BELL U 68 M ...mucky, Westmorland, England Widower Farm Labourer > Sh... HELLAS 20 M Tong, York, England Unm Farm Labourer > You'll find Lazarus Bell in the 1881, and maybe Jane MILLER who is > regarded > as a 'mere' visitor. > 1881 Dwelling: 106 Mount St > Census Place: Bradford, York, England Piece 4443 Folio 62 Page 4 > Lazurus BELL M 26 M Bradford, York Head Carter > Alice BELL M 27 F Birkenshaw, York Wife > Ruth H. BELL 2 F Bradford, York Daur > Charles W. BELL 7 m M Bradford, York Son > Jane BELL U 29 F Bradford, York Boarder Worsted Spinner > In 1881 Charles BELL is probably living up the road at number 240. > > Plenty to chew over, I would say! > > Howard Geddes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sorry about this folks, also Roy. I wrote it last night when all the bickering was going on and then put it in my out file until I had cooled off. I often do this when someone annoys me and then never send them because it seems quite childish to do so. I just clicked on send & receive having forgotten that the email was in my out box. Please don't send masses of emails in reply - either for or against. Let's just let it die. Apologies. Kind regards Judith K ----- Original Message ----- From: "JUDITH KETTLEWELL" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up For crying out loud Roy - SHUT UP. You are like the child who throws histrionics when he doesn't get his own way. No one cares about what you can do or what you can't do. You really are the most boorish, arrogant man that I have never had the pleasure of meeting. And don't come back & say you are typical of the Yorkshire male species. I have too many in my family to know the real thing. Regards Judith K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> > Reading the comments from a few people on the list regarding your > e-mails to me :- > > I rest my case. > > Regards > Harry Harry, I am afraid that neither you nor they understand me or what I am talking about, You are obviously a beginner and I am an expert and a professional. These lists are mostly populated by beginners who have difficulty in understanding what those of us who have been in genealogy and family history a very long time are trying to do in endeavouring to show them how PROPER research is conducted. I do not see genealogy as simply hanging around on mailing lists and asking naïve questions or expecting others to do look-ups for them. That is the equivalent of being in a kindergarten class for 5-year-olds on their first day at school and those who do this are simply playing at it with no real understanding of what they are doing. To me genealogy is an academic discipline that needs to be undertaken seriously and requires training, knowledge and, above all, experience. This requires extensive knowledge of records, resources and where to find them, how to assemble, assess and analyse evidence, how to recognise the wheat from the chaff, how to know when something is right and when it's blatantly wrong, how to build a pedigree carefully and with evidence to back it. In brief, it's the difference between complete amateurs and seasoned professionals. I rest my case, and I can only hope that one day you may acquire the experience and intelligence to understand it. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sure, As far as I am concerned its dead and buried (excuse the pun) Harry

In a message dated 10/23/2006 5:35:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > > For crying out loud Roy - SHUT UP. You are like the child who throws > histrionics when he doesn't get his own way. > No one cares about what you can do or what you can't do. > > You really are the most boorish, arrogant man that I have never had the > pleasure of meeting. > Oh goodness, this is not at all productive! I am sure we can learn from and enjoy both Roy and Harry. This has grown far too much. Can we end it now and get on with the way things used to be? Some people post stories or information and others either ask for or give help. It was great. Lou

After many years searching, I have finally located some biographical information and the citation (in The London Gazette) for a Bradford man who was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal in 1915, and who died in 1918. He does not appear in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site, nor is he found on the West Riding Regiment's Honour Roll for reasons which now seem probable from the facts of the case. I am working with another researcher to have him recorded with the CWGC, at least. I have found him in the 1901 census in Bradford. I have also found some details which suggest that he served with the West Riding Regiment prior to World War One. That helps me to narrow down the time when I search for his emigration records. There is a brief record of him in Australian National Archives which show him embarking in 1914 to rejoin his regiment in England, indicating, of course, that he had immigrated here prior to that date. (Still looking for the shipping records.) I imagine that he enlisted somewhere in the Bradford area because his family was there from about the 1850s, according to census and other information I have found. My questions are: Where would army enlistment records be held? Where should I begin to look for them? Any pointers would be appreciated Trevor (Melbourne)

Greeting and Peace (being the operative word) Give over and lets get on with our family research Howard Australia

Hi Harry. I really shouldn't read emails in the early hours (just after minight here) especially NOT from Roy Stockdill whose attitude constntly winds me up! For one who is allegedly so knowledgeable he has missed the fact that Ancestry is currently providing free access to the 1901 census on its uk site. It doesn't offer the complete transcript but sufficient to give names. ages, places of birth and the vital references to enable others to help. If there are specific queries, I am willing to give what help I can. Regards. Glenys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up > Message received and understood SIR ! > > BTW please do not reply to my e-mails asking for assistance, I cannot do > with going through this everytime I make a mistake. > > Sorry to the rest of the list. > > Regards > Harry > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006

Hello Harry, I too had problems with Mr. Stockdill and as a result left the list, this was 2 years ago and it is not the first time he has had a go at people, so you are not alone. Good luck with your research Shirley

Hi all, My three-pennorth for what it's worth. So I've got an ancestry sub and a spare 5 minutes - why shouldn't I help someone if I can (there's lots of people out there who have helped me in the past). Sorry, Harry but Roy's boorish answer should not be taken as typical for a member of this or any other list, most of whom are only too ready to help. Regards John Green Roy Stockdill wrote: > From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> > > >> Dont worry youself Roy, some kind person has already done the look up >> and kindly forwarded it to me. As a reasonably new person on this site >> I wasn't aware that there wasn't a free look up site, however it >> didn't take them but 15 mins to get back to me. I would suggest in the >> future that you yourself just ignore my e-mail for look ups then it >> wouldn't be a problem for you. >> >> Regards >> Harry >> > > I won't worry myself about it! However, the SKS obviously has an > Ancestry subscription of which you are taking advantage. > > I am very sorry but I am afraid I have rather strong views about > freeloading off other people's kindness (and pocket) which I won't > change. Everyone who knows me knows that I am always happy to help > anyone with advice and the benefit of my very long and substantial > experience. The one thing I will not do is other people's research for > them, since they don't learn anything that way. > > You see, by my post you've learnt something - ie that there is no free > lookup site for the 1901 census. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

I'm sure we're all ready to help if we can and Harry did say he was new to this forum. I thought I had seen posts from Harry Blott over a period of several months, asking for genealogy help. Regards, Barry Emmott

For crying out loud Roy - SHUT UP. You are like the child who throws histrionics when he doesn't get his own way. No one cares about what you can do or what you can't do. You really are the most boorish, arrogant man that I have never had the pleasure of meeting. And don't come back & say you are typical of the Yorkshire male species. I have too many in my family to know the real thing. Regards Judith K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> > Reading the comments from a few people on the list regarding your > e-mails to me :- > > I rest my case. > > Regards > Harry Harry, I am afraid that neither you nor they understand me or what I am talking about, You are obviously a beginner and I am an expert and a professional. These lists are mostly populated by beginners who have difficulty in understanding what those of us who have been in genealogy and family history a very long time are trying to do in endeavouring to show them how PROPER research is conducted. I do not see genealogy as simply hanging around on mailing lists and asking naïve questions or expecting others to do look-ups for them. That is the equivalent of being in a kindergarten class for 5-year-olds on their first day at school and those who do this are simply playing at it with no real understanding of what they are doing. To me genealogy is an academic discipline that needs to be undertaken seriously and requires training, knowledge and, above all, experience. This requires extensive knowledge of records, resources and where to find them, how to assemble, assess and analyse evidence, how to recognise the wheat from the chaff, how to know when something is right and when it's blatantly wrong, how to build a pedigree carefully and with evidence to back it. In brief, it's the difference between complete amateurs and seasoned professionals. I rest my case, and I can only hope that one day you may acquire the experience and intelligence to understand it. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Please will you all stop bickering. Roy gives a lot of valuable help and advice, not just on this list, but West Riding as well. Subscription should come with a warning to newcomers that Roy may be a bit forthright, but what he says makes sense. I am quite happy to do look-ups on sites like 1837online, to which I have unlimited access on a years subscription, and I am happy to share any information I possess, but I would hesitate to pay for other people's look-ups on a pay-per-view site and I wouldn't expect anyone to do it for me. I am not criticising anyone for lack of experience. We can all learn from each other and Roy's Newbie's Guide is certainly worth a look. Can we have a bit of peace now, please? Jill

[email protected] wrote snip<I cannot do > with going through this everytime I make a mistake. Hi Harry YOU have NOT made any mistake at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I and others who are fortunate enought to have access to any of the census do lookups for others because we WANT TO. As far as I am concerned this is what being on the lists is all about, helping others who ,for whatever reason, dont have access to the census. Those who do NOT wish to do so simply do NOT. There is absolutely no reason for anyone no matter how knowledgeable they are to condem those who do the lookups or those who ask for help. Please do not be intimidated by any of this. Christine images on way to you! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb & Harry Blott" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]@rogers.comcom> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up > Message received and understood SIR ! > > BTW please do not reply to my e-mails asking for assistance, I cannot do > with going through this everytime I make a mistake. > > Sorry to the rest of the list. > > Regards > Harry > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 368 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now!