From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> .....long snip from earlier message..... I then > note from the 1851 Bradford census the following..... > > Bradford East End, Piece No. 2307, folio 380 > At 16 Temperance Terrace... > Dennis CREEDON, head, mar, 50, labourer, b Ireland > Hannah CREEDON, wife, mar, 40, b Ireland > Mary CREEDON, dau, 15, piecer worsted, b Ireland > Michael CREEDON, son, 5, scholar, b Ireland > + three female lodgers all born in Ireland > > Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it! It seems unlikely they could > have had a daughter called Abina born in Bradford in 1845 and also a > son Michael born in Ireland in 1845/6. I suspect an enumerator's error > in 1851 and that he simply put them all down as born in Ireland. > Unless there was another family of the same, or similar, name. > However, I cannot find another family in Bradford in 1851. > > I suppose it's just possible that in between the birth of Abina and > James they nipped back to Ireland where Michael was born and then > returned to Bradford. In 1861 the family comprised father Dennis, aged 59, outdoor labourer, born Ireland, wife Hannah aged 50, born Ireland, daughter Mary aged 26, born Ireland, and son Michael, aged 16, now shown as born "Yorkshire Bradford". This surely has to be the Michael who was aged 5 in the 1851 census - no mention at all in either census of the Dennis born in 1842. FreeBMD also has the death of Dennis Creedon at Bradford in the Dec quarter of 1865. Unfortunately, death ages weren't given until 1866 but this was presumably the father. It becomes mysteriouser and mysteriouser (Alice in Wonderland!). Was Dennis whose birth certificate you have, Valerie, and who was definitely born in 1842 in fact Michael whose age in 1851 was 5 and in 1861was 16? I am beginning to suspect not, frankly. However, despite what the 1861 census says, I am unable to find a Michael Creadon or Creedon born at Bradford in 1844/5. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi all I am interested in finding info on The Woolen and cloth mills around Rawdon, Idle and Shipley Anyone with any info on were to look ie websites books etc. Maybe the whereabouts of websites on unusual mill jobs Worsted weavers/spinners, Warp dresser, mule spinner etc All my ancestors from various lines are all involved in Mill life, I am curious on the standard of life these people had around the 1850s Any info at all would be grand J Proctor J Proctor

For a long time now (nearly 2 years) I've been using every facility I can think of to trace my maternal grandfather, John Greenwood. According to such records and family hearsay that I've been able to harvest he was born around Todmorden on May 8th 1875. The first proof I have of his existence is his marriage certificate in 1898 when he was in barracks at Aberdeen with the Gordon Highlanders. On his certificate he gives his age as 23 and his father's name is John Samuel Greenwood and his mother as Mary Jane Greenwood M.S. (nee) Butterfield, deceased. I have been to the FRC in Clerkenwell and been unable to find the birth recorded as Greenwood or Butterfield for up to 5 years either side of 1875, nor can I find any record of a marriage in those years for John Samuel Greenwood and Mary Jane Butterfield. None of them appear in the 1881 or 1891 censuses but grandpa is in the 1901 census, still in Aberdeen with my grandma and 2 children, both of whom died soon after. Another child who did survive (my aunt) was born in 1903 but that is the last record I have of my grandfather. He was awarded a long-service medal during the reign of EdwardVII but I don't know when he left the army. I have twice sent messages to the Gordon Highlanders asking for any help they can give but so far have had no acknowledgment. In the 1800s the Todmorden area was awash with John Greenwoods, most of whom were nonconformists, but none had the details I needed with the possible exception of John and Mary J Greenwood who I discovered in the 1891 and 1901 censuses in Haworth. However, grandpa's marriage certificate says his mother was dead by 1898 and his father was a groom whereas John Greenwood in Haworth was a Stone Quarryman. Also, in 1881 these Greenwoods were in Leeds but with no children. My grandparents and all their offspring are long gone and even my cousins who still live in Yorkshire know nothing so I need people with experience to suggest where I might look next and I hope the listers can help. Regards, Barry Emmott

From: "Graham" <[email protected]> > oxenhope,,top shaw > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:35 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up > > > > From: "Graham" <[email protected]> > > > >> Roy..anything you can find of Normingtons in Oxenhope..please > >> also my other side was Rushtons...good luck ----- < > > > > I am sorry but could you please be a little more specific? > > Graham Are you trying to wind me up or something? If you seriously believe that when I said I was always willing to try and help people with specific queries I meant that I had time to spend looking for "Anything you can find of Normingtons in Oxenhope...also my other side was Rushtons", then I am afraid you are mistaken. What I meant was I am willing to look for someone in a particular census whom you have tried, and failed, to find - that sort of thing. I really do not have the time to go searching through every census and do your entire family tree for you! Why don't you look for your Normingtons and Rushtons at Ancestry? -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Barry Have you tried asking Barbara & Linda of the Todmorden site - I think they must be THE experts in that area (and both are very very helpful) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~todmordenandwalsden/ Other than that, I can't offer any help or bright ideas, sorry! Best wishes Janet C >From: "Barry Emmott" <[email protected]> >For a long time now (nearly 2 years) I've been using every facility I can >think of to trace my maternal grandfather, John Greenwood. According to >such >records and family hearsay that I've been able to harvest he was born >around >Todmorden on May 8th 1875. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb

From: "Valerie Gilbert" <[email protected]> > Roy > The birth certificate I have for Dennis CREEDON born 1842 came from > Bradford Register office.Bradford East Div. I had been enquiring after > Michael and they phoned to say no Michael was found but another child > near the date I suggested and a couple of others later they felt were > the same family. I now have them all. I agree that they would not all > know how to write the name, indeed I first found the senior Dennis as > Denis Credon and later Creadon.After 1864 it has been CREEDON > consistently and Michael was signing his own name by his marriage in > 1867. The child Dennis was born 21st Nov 1842 at Philadelphia Street, > Wapping and the registrar was Richard Spencer giving the date of 29th > Nov. I am trying to check for a baptism for this boy. Not until 1897 > does the name Michael Dennis appear, on marriage of his daughter.There > were 12 more children , all with father Michael. > Michael's death certificate states death of Michael Dennis CREEDON > aged 77yrs in Dec 1919. > I cannot think of another way of verifying my theorybut feel the > absence of any more information about Dennis is yet another pointer to > the child being one and the same. I realise I may never prove this.< Valerie I note that FreeBMD has four birth entries in Bradford, all with the spelling CREADON, as follows..... Sep 1840 Hannah CREADON Bradford 23 97 Dec 1842 Dennis CREADON Bradford 23 101 Sep 1845 Abina CREADON Bradford 23 105 Jun 1848 James CREADON Bradford 23 145 FreeBMD also has the following deaths in Bradford..... Sep 1841 Catherine CREADON Bradford 23 69 HANNAH CREADON Bradford 23 69 June 1848 James CREADON Bradford 23 93 Jun 1849 Abinah CREADON Bradford 23 98 I would say this was your family who lost 4 children between 1841 and 1849. There are no other entries for the spelling of Creadon after 1849, so the name must have become CREEDON after that date. I then note from the 1851 Bradford census the following..... Bradford East End, Piece No. 2307, folio 380 At 16 Temperance Terrace... Dennis CREEDON, head, mar, 50, labourer, b Ireland Hannah CREEDON, wife, mar, 40, b Ireland Mary CREEDON, dau, 15, piecer worsted, b Ireland Michael CREEDON, son, 5, scholar, b Ireland + three female lodgers all born in Ireland Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it! It seems unlikely they could have had a daughter called Abina born in Bradford in 1845 and also a son Michael born in Ireland in 1845/6. I suspect an enumerator's error in 1851 and that he simply put them all down as born in Ireland. Unless there was another family of the same, or similar, name. However, I cannot find another family in Bradford in 1851. I suppose it's just possible that in between the birth of Abina and James they nipped back to Ireland where Michael was born and then returned to Bradford. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Graham If you were trying to iwnd Roy up, then Ok, but if you weren't and are seriously looking for NORMINGTONs, these are indexed on Ancestry in 1901 as being born in Oxenhope:- Albert Normington abt 1858 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Head Oxenhope Yorkshire Betty Normington Joseph abt 1825 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Wife Oxenhope Yorkshire Blanche Normington Albert abt 1886 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Daughter Oxenhope Yorkshire Emma Normington Albert abt 1889 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Daughter Oxenhope Yorkshire Harry Normington Albert abt 1891 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Son Oxenhope Yorkshire Hetty Normington Albert abt 1888 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Daughter Oxenhope Yorkshire Joseph Normington Betty abt 1822 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Head Oxenhope Yorkshire Joshua Normington Jane abt 1842 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Head Keighley Yorkshire Teresa Normington Albert abt 1896 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Daughter Oxenhope Yorkshire Thomas Normington Ann abt 1851 Cablin Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Head Oxenhope Yorkshire Willm Normington Albert abt 1885 Oxenhope, Yorkshire, England Son Oxenhope Yorkshire also, these living in Oxenhope:- Albert Normington abt 1884 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Son Oxenhope Yorkshire Ann Normington abt 1843 Ogden, Yorkshire, England Wife Oxenhope Yorkshire Martha Normington abt 1873 Thornton, Yorkshire, England Daughter Oxenhope Yorkshire Mary Normington abt 1878 Haworth, Yorkshire, England Daughter Oxenhope Yorkshire Mary Ann Normington abt 1873 Shipley, Yorkshire, England Daughter Oxenhope Yorkshire Sarah Normington abt 1875 Haworth, Yorkshire, England Daughter Oxenhope Yorkshire Thomas Normington abt 1847 Thornton, Yorkshire, England Head Oxenhope Yorkshire Wm Normington abt 1831 Haworth, Yorkshire, England Father Oxenhope Yorkshire If you would like any further details of any of them, please reply to the list and I'll do my best to help. Regards Janet C >From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > > oxenhope,,top shaw > > >> Roy..anything you can find of Normingtons in Oxenhope..please > > >> also my other side was Rushtons...good luck ----- < > > > >Are you trying to wind me up or something? _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb

The Family History Centres all seem to have free access to Ancestry now Patricia Page BC Canada

Roy The birth certificate I have for Dennis CREEDON born 1842 came from Bradford Register office.Bradford East Div. I had been enquiring after Michael and they phoned to say no Michael was found but another child near the date I suggested and a couple of others later they felt were the same family. I now have them all. I agree that they would not all know how to write the name, indeed I first found the senior Dennis as Denis Credon and later Creadon.After 1864 it has been CREEDON consistently and Michael was signing his own name by his marriage in 1867. The child Dennis was born 21st Nov 1842 at Philadelphia Street, Wapping and the registrar was Richard Spencer giving the date of 29th Nov. I am trying to check for a baptism for this boy. Not until 1897 does the name Michael Dennis appear, on marriage of his daughter.There were 12 more children , all with father Michael. Michael's death certificate states death of Michael Dennis CREEDON aged 77yrs in Dec 1919. I cannot think of another way of verifying my theorybut feel the absence of any more information about Dennis is yet another pointer to the child being one and the same. I realise I may never prove this. Valerie

Hi Trevor I think your best bet would be to have a look at the PRO, now the NRA records at Kew, some of which have now come on line, like the medal roll index for soldiers of WW1 and some of the war diaries for various regiments. (documents online web pages) If his service record prior to WW1 survives, you would need the services of a researcher to have a look at Kew for you. These can be a goldmine of information. Emigration records - I seem to recall that some of these were going to be put on line soon, possibly via the 1837.com site, but perhaps I've dreamed that. Again, there are records held at Kew - nothing local in Bradford for either as far as I know, but happy to be proved wrong. Regards Ellen Spence Trevor <[email protected]> wrote: After many years searching, I have finally located some biographical information and the citation (in The London Gazette) for a Bradford man who was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal in 1915, and who died in 1918. He does not appear in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site, nor is he found on the West Riding Regiment's Honour Roll for reasons which now seem probable from the facts of the case. I am working with another researcher to have him recorded with the CWGC, at least. I have found him in the 1901 census in Bradford. I have also found some details which suggest that he served with the West Riding Regiment prior to World War One. That helps me to narrow down the time when I search for his emigration records. There is a brief record of him in Australian National Archives which show him embarking in 1914 to rejoin his regiment in England, indicating, of course, that he had immigrated here prior to that date. (Still looking for the shipping records.) I imagine that he enlisted somewhere in the Bradford area because his family was there from about the 1850s, according to census and other information I have found. My questions are: Where would army enlistment records be held? Where should I begin to look for them? Any pointers would be appreciated Trevor (Melbourne) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I might be in the minority but I could not agree more with Roy and his views. I seem to have been seeing "Barb & Harry Blott" after 'begging' submissions on the list for wuite some time now so I cannot understand how Harry can say he is a newcomer to the list. I will not ask for advice until I have exhausted all other avenues of research. I've got some problems at the moment, like who was the mother-in-laws father, his birth certificate is a mess, all reference to the father is deleted (officially) and all I've got to go on is a few scraps of information from Mother in Law who is virtually 90 but still lucid, as was her mother, and consistent. Until I've finished checking with the Danish, Belgian and French 'authorities' , may be that will be the time to ask Roy for help. As far as I am concerned (and I've both heard him speak and met him personally) he is the most knowledgeable and helpful person on this list. Please leave out the criticism and sniping at him, he doesn't deserve it and when Harry and his kind have got Roy's experience then, and only then, they can criricise all they want. David ====================================== == Message Received: Oct 23 2006, 03:10 PM From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: ENG-YKS-BRADFORD Digest, Vol 1, Issue 43 Today's Topics: 1. Re: 1901 census look up (JUDITH KETTLEWELL) 2. Re: 1901 census look up (JUDITH KETTLEWELL) 3. Re: Eat your heart out Catherine Cookson! (Ros Jarvis) 4. Re: 1901 census look up (Roy Stockdill) 5. Re: 1901 census look up (Roy Stockdill) 6. Re: 1901 census look up (Charles Greenhough) 7. Re: 1901 census look up (Roy Stockdill) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:17:54 +0100 From: "JUDITH KETTLEWELL" Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up To: Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original For crying out loud Roy - SHUT UP. You are like the child who throws histrionics when he doesn't get his own way. No one cares about what you can do or what you can't do. You really are the most boorish, arrogant man that I have never had the pleasure of meeting. And don't come back & say you are typical of the Yorkshire male species. I have too many in my family to know the real thing. Regards Judith K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up From: "Barb & Harry Blott" > Reading the comments from a few people on the list regarding your > e-mails to me :- > > I rest my case. > > Regards > Harry Harry, I am afraid that neither you nor they understand me or what I am talking about, You are obviously a beginner and I am an expert and a professional. These lists are mostly populated by beginners who have difficulty in understanding what those of us who have been in genealogy and family history a very long time are trying to do in endeavouring to show them how PROPER research is conducted. I do not see genealogy as simply hanging around on mailing lists and asking na?ve questions or expecting others to do look-ups for them. That is the equivalent of being in a kindergarten class for 5-year-olds on their first day at school and those who do this are simply playing at it with no real understanding of what they are doing. To me genealogy is an academic discipline that needs to be undertaken seriously and requires training, knowledge and, above all, experience. This requires extensive knowledge of records, resources and where to find them, how to assemble, assess and analyse evidence, how to recognise the wheat from the chaff, how to know when something is right and when it's blatantly wrong, how to build a pedigree carefully and with evidence to back it. In brief, it's the difference between complete amateurs and seasoned professionals. I rest my case, and I can only hope that one day you may acquire the experience and intelligence to understand it. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:43:16 +0100 From: "JUDITH KETTLEWELL" Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up To: Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Sorry about this folks, also Roy. I wrote it last night when all the bickering was going on and then put it in my out file until I had cooled off. I often do this when someone annoys me and then never send them because it seems quite childish to do so. I just clicked on send & receive having forgotten that the email was in my out box. Please don't send masses of emails in reply - either for or against. Let's just let it die. Apologies. Kind regards Judith K ----- Original Message ----- From: "JUDITH KETTLEWELL" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up For crying out loud Roy - SHUT UP. You are like the child who throws histrionics when he doesn't get his own way. No one cares about what you can do or what you can't do. You really are the most boorish, arrogant man that I have never had the pleasure of meeting. And don't come back & say you are typical of the Yorkshire male species. I have too many in my family to know the real thing. Regards Judith K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up From: "Barb & Harry Blott" > Reading the comments from a few people on the list regarding your > e-mails to me :- > > I rest my case. > > Regards > Harry Harry, I am afraid that neither you nor they understand me or what I am talking about, You are obviously a beginner and I am an expert and a professional. These lists are mostly populated by beginners who have difficulty in understanding what those of us who have been in genealogy and family history a very long time are trying to do in endeavouring to show them how PROPER research is conducted. I do not see genealogy as simply hanging around on mailing lists and asking na?ve questions or expecting others to do look-ups for them. That is the equivalent of being in a kindergarten class for 5-year-olds on their first day at school and those who do this are simply playing at it with no real understanding of what they are doing. To me genealogy is an academic discipline that needs to be undertaken seriously and requires training, knowledge and, above all, experience. This requires extensive knowledge of records, resources and where to find them, how to assemble, assess and analyse evidence, how to recognise the wheat from the chaff, how to know when something is right and when it's blatantly wrong, how to build a pedigree carefully and with evidence to back it. In brief, it's the difference between complete amateurs and seasoned professionals. I rest my case, and I can only hope that one day you may acquire the experience and intelligence to understand it. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:33:09 +0100 From: "Ros Jarvis" Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] Eat your heart out Catherine Cookson! To: "Howard Geddes" , Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Don't often see a GEDDES - you wouldn't be anything to do with the family from aberchirder I suppose? Ros ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Geddes" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] Eat your heart out Catherine Cookson! > This him? Just a thought or two to stir it up. > 1881 Dwelling: Low Farm > Census Place: Whitley Upper, York Piece 4378 Folio 89 Page 11 > Fanny BOOTH U 57 F Tong, York, England Servant (Head) House Keeper (Dom) > Ralph BELL U 68 M ...mucky, Westmorland, England Widower Farm Labourer > Sh... HELLAS 20 M Tong, York, England Unm Farm Labourer > You'll find Lazarus Bell in the 1881, and maybe Jane MILLER who is > regarded > as a 'mere' visitor. > 1881 Dwelling: 106 Mount St > Census Place: Bradford, York, England Piece 4443 Folio 62 Page 4 > Lazurus BELL M 26 M Bradford, York Head Carter > Alice BELL M 27 F Birkenshaw, York Wife > Ruth H. BELL 2 F Bradford, York Daur > Charles W. BELL 7 m M Bradford, York Son > Jane BELL U 29 F Bradford, York Boarder Worsted Spinner > In 1881 Charles BELL is probably living up the road at number 240. > > Plenty to chew over, I would say! > > Howard Geddes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:37:11 +0100 From: "Roy Stockdill" Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up To: Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 From: "Glenys Thornton" > I really shouldn't read emails in the early hours (just after minight > here) especially NOT from Roy Stockdill whose attitude constntly winds > me up! For one who is allegedly so knowledgeable he has missed the > fact that Ancestry is currently providing free access to the 1901 > census on its uk site. It doesn't offer the complete transcript but > sufficient to give names. ages, places of birth and the vital > references to enable others to help.> Glenys But it doesn't enable you to get addresses for named people, which is what the OP was asking. In any cases, you know perfectly well that Ancestry doesn't give anything for nothing! In the old saying, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Eventually, whatever you may think you are getting gratis, they will want you to sign up for a year's subscription and it's my experience that they want your credit card number before you get even a so-called "free trial". I have been told by others that once they get your card number, you can have the devil's own problems in cancelling. That is why I much prefer to support British firms like 1837online, Origins, etc. Before too long, all the censuses will be online at a number of different sites and we won't need an American multinational like Ancestry. That is why, on the rare occasions I do need access to a census I can't get elsewhere, I prefer to buy a one-off voucher that affords you 10 downloads for ?4.95. Despite their regular entreaties, I will not take out an annual subscription with them. I would also take a modest bet that somewhere in the Ancestry small print it states that a subscription is for the user of ONE user only and that multiple look-ups for others are specifically forbidden. In any case, libraries and record offices around the world now provide free access to Ancestry - the SoG and FRC in London do, for instance - so it is open to anyone to find a library that has this access and do the look-ups for themselves. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:57:04 +0100 From: "Roy Stockdill" Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up To: Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Perhaps I could just make it abslutely clear what I am prepared to help listers with? 1) General and more specific advice on how to research your family tree, find ancestors, check out the accuracy of the information, find sources, locate record offices, where parish registers for the whole of Yorkshire are held, etc - in other words, specialist advice that is not easily obtainable elsewhere. To this end I possess, for instance, reference books that list the whereabouts of registers and bishop's transcripts for every parish in Yorkshire, sources I wouldn't expect too many to have. 2) With regard to this list and Bradford, specifically, I was born in Bradford, have considerable knowledge of the city and possess a number of books and old maps concerning the city not easily accessible to others. I am always happy to do "look-ups" (personally I dislike that phrase as being somewhat juvenile but nobody seems to have yet thought of a better one) in these books, which also contain many photos of old Bradford. I can often find streets and places that no longer exist, for instance, and have a good working knowledge of the city's history and records. 3) I possess a complete set of the censuses on the S & N CDs for the whole of Yorkshire from 1841-1901 (with the exception of the 1881 which they haven't done) and a complete transcription (NOT an index) of the 1851 census for Bradford on CD (available from the Bradford FHS). I am willing to help with searching these in cases where someone can demonstrate that they have made serious efforts to help themselves and do their own homework first and failed to find something. What I am not prepared to do - and I have always been utterly consistent in my view on this - is look-ups in resources that are easily available on the Internet and that requesters to "SKS" could easily do for themselves but won't, possibly because they don't wish to incur the expense. I will happily tell them HOW to do it in the hope they may learn something, but in my view spoonfeeding newcomers with look-ups doesn't, in the long term, actually help them to learn how to research. Sorry, but those are my views and I won't be changing them. Anyone who wants to pick my brains with regard to specific advice about a particular problem, or discover some information that isn't easily available elsewhere, is warmly welcomed. I really don't think I can be fairer than that! -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:39:42 +0100 From: "Charles Greenhough" Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up To: Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Thank you for the useful information that one can get a free look up on Ancestry from a library in London. Charles Expatriot Yorkshireman Suffolk UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up From: "Glenys Thornton" > I really shouldn't read emails in the early hours (just after minight > here) especially NOT from Roy Stockdill whose attitude constntly winds > me up! For one who is allegedly so knowledgeable he has missed the > fact that Ancestry is currently providing free access to the 1901 > census on its uk site. It doesn't offer the complete transcript but > sufficient to give names. ages, places of birth and the vital > references to enable others to help.> Glenys But it doesn't enable you to get addresses for named people, which is what the OP was asking. In any cases, you know perfectly well that Ancestry doesn't give anything for nothing! In the old saying, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Eventually, whatever you may think you are getting gratis, they will want you to sign up for a year's subscription and it's my experience that they want your credit card number before you get even a so-called "free trial". I have been told by others that once they get your card number, you can have the devil's own problems in cancelling. That is why I much prefer to support British firms like 1837online, Origins, etc. Before too long, all the censuses will be online at a number of different sites and we won't need an American multinational like Ancestry. That is why, on the rare occasions I do need access to a census I can't get elsewhere, I prefer to buy a one-off voucher that affords you 10 downloads for ?4.95. Despite their regular entreaties, I will not take out an annual subscription with them. I would also take a modest bet that somewhere in the Ancestry small print it states that a subscription is for the user of ONE user only and that multiple look-ups for others are specifically forbidden. In any case, libraries and record offices around the world now provide free access to Ancestry - the SoG and FRC in London do, for instance - so it is open to anyone to find a library that has this access and do the look-ups for themselves. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:08:03 +0100 From: "Roy Stockdill" Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up To: Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: "Charles Greenhough" > Thank you for the useful information that one can get a free look up > on Ancestry from a library in London. > > Charles > Expatriot Yorkshireman > Suffolk UK I am quite certain that if you look locally you will find a library somewhere not far from you that has it. For instance, my local library in Watford, Herts, has access to Ancestry and it is increasingly being offered around the country. You simply need to ask someone! -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------ To contact the ENG-YKS-BRADFORD list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the ENG-YKS-BRADFORD mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ENG-YKS-BRADFORD Digest, Vol 1, Issue 43 ***********************************************

oxenhope,,top shaw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up > From: "Graham" <[email protected]> > >> Roy..anything you can find of Normingtons in Oxenhope..please also >> my other side was Rushtons...good luck ----- < > > I am sorry but could you please be a little more specific? > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

From: "pamela simmons" <[email protected]> > I don't know about libraries but I was in the County Records Office in > Bury St Edmonds last week. They don't have it . Pamela > I don't think too many CROs do have it - some probably don't have the space. I believe it is much more likely to be in libraries. Certainly, my local library in Watford has it, though I believe they restrict you to an hour's booking. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: "Valerie Gilbert" <[email protected]> > I am hoping someone else will have experienced something similar to > my search for my G G grandfathers birth.Ideas on the likelihood of my > conclusion welcome. My CREEDON family came from Ireland to > Bradford before 1840. Two daughters had been born in Ireland and > another was baptised in July 1840 in Bradford.My G G Grandfather > Michael Creedon > was my starting point and I search through the years 1842-1845 on > the film indexes. He married in 1867 aged 24 and several census > entries seem to support this age. I found several siblings, some short > lived.Dennis, James , William were the sons found .Bradford Register > office were very helpful with a thorough search. I began to think > somehow he had not been registered. However on Michael's first > daughters marriage certificate in 1897 as the father he is down as > Michael Dennis. I now have his death certificate too with Michael > Dennis CREEDON. I wonder if the birth certificate I have for Dennis > born 1842, registered a week after birth is really what I have been > looking for. I am hoping finding a baptism for the child may show > Dennis to be Michael Dennis. > I believe at that time a Registrar went to homes of newborns to get > the details. The father of this 1842 week old, child was himself > Denis so if a name had not yet been chosen perhaps this was almost an > assumption Irish family -first son call him after the father. > My searching has shown that other siblings births and deaths seem to > have been registered correctly. Maybe the baptism will prove my > theory. Any advice on what else might prove that Dennis born Nov 1842 > is the child who became known as Michael (Dennis) ? By the way there > was only the one family named CREEDON in Bradford for a good many > years. If anyone has read this far what do you think?< It is certainly true that in the early days of civil registration the Registrar or his assistants had to "trawl" for births, literally knocking on doors asking if there were any newly-borns recently in the household. Though technically registration was compulsory from the start, it didn't become compulsory in the sense that people could be fined for non-registration until 1875. It's been estimated that in some areas in the early days of civil registration as many as 15-20 per cent of children weren't registered. There is also the thought that as the family were Irish and relatively recently arrived (presumably) they might well have been wary of authority of any kind - a lot of people (and not just the Irish) were in those days. A further factor is that he might have used two names - again many did in those days. He might have been known as Michael Dennis and/or Michael Creedon and used both frequently. And forgive me, but the whole family may well have been illiterate, so wouldn't necessarily know which to use when confronted with having to give their names. A quick search of FreeBMD and the GRO Indexes at 1838online reveals no-one of either name registered in 1842. However, you say you have a birth certificate for Dennis in 1842 - could be be more precise as to where that came from and what it actually says? GRO or local Register Office? -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi I don't know about libraries but I was in the County Records Office in Bury St Edmonds last week. They don't have it . Pamela -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.10/491 - Release Date: 23/10/2006

I am hoping someone else will have experienced something similar to my search for my G G grandfathers birth.Ideas on the likelihood of my conclusion welcome. My CREEDON family came from Ireland to Bradford before 1840. Two daughters had been born in Ireland and another was baptised in July 1840 in Bradford.My G G Grandfather Michael Creedon was my starting point and I search through the years 1842-1845 on the film indexes. He married in 1867 aged 24 and several census entries seem to support this age. I found several siblings, some short lived.Dennis, James , William were the sons found .Bradford Register office were very helpful with a thorough search. I began to think somehow he had not been registered. However on Michael's first daughters marriage certificate in 1897 as the father he is down as Michael Dennis. I now have his death certificate too with Michael Dennis CREEDON. I wonder if the birth certificate I have for Dennis born 1842, registered a week after birth is really what I have been looking for. I am hoping finding a baptism for the child may show Dennis to be Michael Dennis. I believe at that time a Registrar went to homes of newborns to get the details. The father of this 1842 week old, child was himself Denis so if a name had not yet been chosen perhaps this was almost an assumption Irish family -first son call him after the father. My searching has shown that other siblings births and deaths seem to have been registered correctly. Maybe the baptism will prove my theory. Any advice on what else might prove that Dennis born Nov 1842 is the child who became known as Michael (Dennis) ? By the way there was only the one family named CREEDON in Bradford for a good many years. If anyone has read this far what do you think? Valerie nee CREEDON

Valerie Please may I preface these thoughts by the comment that I am quite new to family history research, so these few ideas might not be good research, but perhaps reasonable..... It seems to me that your reasoning is good, and that your grandfather may well have been registered as Michael Dennis. Perhaps the Registrar asked the father "What's tha' name, lad?" and receiving the reply "Michael Dennis" without the "CREEDON" ever being mentioned, the Registrar then asked "And tha' son's name is to be?", with the informant anaswering "Michael, of course!!" I have a similar situation in my ancestors (I think!) with my illegitimate g-g-grandfather having his father detailed as Nathaniel MOORHOUSE on his Marriage Certificate - MOORHOUSE was his widowed mother's name (her husband having died six years earler), but his father's name actually was, I think, Nathaniel GREAVES. Hope this helps - but perhaps more logically check the original Michael DENNIS Birth Certificate to ascertain if the father was the informant, and if he was Michael DENNIS, and the name of the mother to see if this is correct; and perhaps also the Parish / Non-Conformist Records Best Regards Geoff (in a very wet Sevilla) >From: "Valerie Gilbert" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] Possible solution? >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:24:29 +0100 > >I am hoping someone else will have experienced something similar to my >search for my G G grandfathers birth.Ideas on the likelihood of my >conclusion welcome. >My CREEDON family came from Ireland to Bradford before 1840. Two daughters >had been born in Ireland and another was baptised in July 1840 in >Bradford.My G G Grandfather Michael Creedon was my starting point and I >search through the years 1842-1845 on the film indexes. He married in 1867 >aged 24 and several census entries seem to support this age. I found >several siblings, some short lived.Dennis, James , William were the sons >found .Bradford Register office were very helpful with a thorough search. I >began to think somehow he had not been registered. >However on Michael's first daughters marriage certificate in 1897 as the >father he is down as Michael Dennis. >I now have his death certificate too with Michael Dennis CREEDON. >I wonder if the birth certificate I have for Dennis born 1842, registered a >week after birth is really what I have been looking for. I am hoping >finding a baptism for the child may show Dennis to be Michael Dennis. > I believe at that time a Registrar went to homes of newborns to get the >details. The father of this 1842 week old, child was himself Denis so if a >name had not yet been chosen perhaps this was almost an assumption Irish >family -first son call him after the father. >My searching has shown that other siblings births and deaths seem to have >been registered correctly. >Maybe the baptism will prove my theory. Any advice on what else might prove >that Dennis born Nov 1842 is the child who became known as Michael (Dennis) >? By the way there was only the one family named CREEDON in Bradford for a >good many years. >If anyone has read this far what do you think? > Valerie nee CREEDON > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > From: "Charles Greenhough" > > > Thank you for the useful information that one can get a free look up > > on Ancestry from a library in London. > > > > Charles > > Expatriot Yorkshireman > > Suffolk UK > > I am quite certain that if you look locally you will find a library > somewhere not far from you that has it. For instance, my local library > in Watford, Herts, has access to Ancestry and it is increasingly being > offered around the country. You simply need to ask someone!> I have e-mailed the Suffolk County Libraries Service on your behalf and asked them how many of their branches offer free access to Ancestry. I will let you know when I receive an answer. However, if you wish to ask for yourself you can easily find their e-mail address with Google. -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: "Graham" <[email protected]> > Roy..anything you can find of Normingtons in Oxenhope..please also > my other side was Rushtons...good luck ----- < I am sorry but could you please be a little more specific? -- Roy Stockdill Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Roy..anything you can find of Normingtons in Oxenhope..please also my other side was Rushtons...good luck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-YKS-BRADFORD] 1901 census look up > Perhaps I could just make it abslutely clear what I am prepared to help > listers with? > > 1) General and more specific advice on how to research your family tree, > find ancestors, check out the accuracy of the information, find sources, > locate record offices, where parish registers for the whole of Yorkshire > are held, etc - in other words, specialist advice that is not easily > obtainable elsewhere. To this end I possess, for instance, reference > books that list the whereabouts of registers and bishop's transcripts for > every parish in Yorkshire, sources I wouldn't expect too many to have. > > 2) With regard to this list and Bradford, specifically, I was born in > Bradford, have considerable knowledge of the city and possess a > number of books and old maps concerning the city not easily accessible > to others. I am always happy to do "look-ups" (personally I dislike that > phrase as being somewhat juvenile but nobody seems to have yet > thought of a better one) in these books, which also contain many photos > of old Bradford. I can often find streets and places that no longer exist, > for instance, and have a good working knowledge of the city's history and > records. > > 3) I possess a complete set of the censuses on the S & N CDs for the > whole of Yorkshire from 1841-1901 (with the exception of the 1881 which > they haven't done) and a complete transcription (NOT an index) of the > 1851 census for Bradford on CD (available from the Bradford FHS). I am > willing to help with searching these in cases where someone can > demonstrate that they have made serious efforts to help themselves and > do their own homework first and failed to find something. > > What I am not prepared to do - and I have always been utterly consistent > in my view on this - is look-ups in resources that are easily available on > the Internet and that requesters to "SKS" could easily do for themselves > but won't, possibly because they don't wish to incur the expense. I will > happily tell them HOW to do it in the hope they may learn something, but > in my view spoonfeeding newcomers with look-ups doesn't, in the long > term, actually help them to learn how to research. > > Sorry, but those are my views and I won't be changing them. Anyone who > wants to pick my brains with regard to specific advice about a particular > problem, or discover some information that isn't easily available > elsewhere, is warmly welcomed. I really don't think I can be fairer than > that! > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >