I would be grateful if anyone has any additional details of the marriage of JOHN PARSONS to PENELOPE WOOLLEY at St Andrews, Worcester on 30/9/1805. I believe the couple may be the John and Penelope Parsons who lived in Tewkesbury, and I am seeking a link between the Parsons clan and Susannah Moorfield in an attempt to break down one of those brick walls! Any help appreciated! Angela

Kay, FWIW "The Pack Horse" is still standing - trading, too, but not under its old name which was changed perhaps 10 years ago. Around January 1962 it was closed for fairly major refurbishment, and reopened as Worcester's "Berni Inn" - probably the founder of today's ubiquitous 'Steak-Bars' - but retained its traditional name. Upstairs was The Steak Bar - with a very good wet bar, too, but sadly it meant that the previous Jazz Club no longer had a venue; on the ground floor was The Chicken Bar; - and down in the Cellar was The Plaice Bar. The latter was, in all probability, the former 'Vaults' - but I've no memory of that being in existence previusly. [My interest earlier interest being the upstairs room...] Worcester *did* though then still have a Hotel with a 'Vaults' - the Star Hotel in Foregate Street, roughly opposite the Railway Station. "The Star Vaults" was at the extreme rear of the Hotel, and its entrance was on Farrier Street - and catered for a very different clientele... The Hotel was 'posh' - the Vaults were 'rough' [but the beer was far better - probably because it moved faster - and cheaper, too!]. But it closed probably 35 years ago - while the Hotel still continues, but with its name changed to "The Whitehouse". HTH Gus

Thank you, Roy and Richard, for the information. Always able to find info from all you great people! Kay ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > It was very common in Victorian and earlier times but usually more associated with > pubs than hotels. > > Google on "pubs+vaults" and you will find many examples. It was often associated > with wine vaults. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html >

Hi, I suspect its probably a cellar of some kind sought . They could be used for wine, coal, or any other material which would be okay stored below street level (so possibly not for Worcester hops) You could have a look at 19th century Berrow's Worcester Journal (online from British Library to see if there is any further clarity - as typically vaults might be described in sale advertisement for the Hotel assuming it was Victorian or earlier and had passed through different owners) . Sometimes Vaults were let or sold one their own and examples probably survive under many high streets today. So in one of my newspapers (Bolton 1824) sandwiched between an ad for the Bridge Inn Manchester, and another for Elastic Steel Trusses I found for example " SPIRIT VAULTS. J. HARTLEY begs leave to inform his Friends and the Public, that he has opened Commodious VAULTS at his House, the Horse and Jockey Inn, in BRADSHAWGATE, for the Sale of FOREIGN and BRITISH SPIRITS, where they may be supplied with a Genuine Article, upon the following moderate prices :- P Gal." Best Regards Richard -------------------------------------------------- From: "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:06 PM To: <eng-worcester@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [WOR] ENG-WORCESTER Digest, Vol 6, Issue 17 > On 6 Feb 2011 at 13:35, Roy Stockdill wrote: > >> On 6 Feb 2011 at 8:14, Katherine Andrews wrote: >> >> > >> > Roger, thank you for the info. But what does "Vaults" refer to? >> > I've never heard this in relation to a hotel. Kay > >> >> It was very common in Victorian and earlier times but usually more >> associated with pubs than hotels. >> >> Google on "pubs+vaults" and you will find many examples. It was often >> associated with wine vaults. > > > The following definition is found in a glossary near the end of > "Researching Brewer > and Publican Ancestors" by Simon Fowler (pub. by the Family History > Partnership > 2009)..... > > VAULTS "A name given to one of the rooms often found in northern pubs. > This was > the place where women would sit while their menfolk were in the public > bar." > > So it was the place where women were banished to while their men drank > themselves > silly and talked football! In the days when my parents kept a pub in > Yorkshire they had > a room behind the bar called the "Snug" that served the same purpose. > > So "vaults" may not necessarily mean the literal sense of cellars. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WORCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 6 Feb 2011 at 13:35, Roy Stockdill wrote: > On 6 Feb 2011 at 8:14, Katherine Andrews wrote: > > > > > Roger, thank you for the info. But what does "Vaults" refer to? > > I've never heard this in relation to a hotel. Kay > > > It was very common in Victorian and earlier times but usually more > associated with pubs than hotels. > > Google on "pubs+vaults" and you will find many examples. It was often > associated with wine vaults. > The following definition is found in a glossary near the end of "Researching Brewer and Publican Ancestors" by Simon Fowler (pub. by the Family History Partnership 2009)..... VAULTS "A name given to one of the rooms often found in northern pubs. This was the place where women would sit while their menfolk were in the public bar." So it was the place where women were banished to while their men drank themselves silly and talked football! In the days when my parents kept a pub in Yorkshire they had a room behind the bar called the "Snug" that served the same purpose. So "vaults" may not necessarily mean the literal sense of cellars. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

On 6 Feb 2011 at 8:14, Katherine Andrews wrote: > > Roger, thank you for the info. But what does "Vaults" refer to? I've > never heard this in relation to a hotel. Kay > It was very common in Victorian and earlier times but usually more associated with pubs than hotels. Google on "pubs+vaults" and you will find many examples. It was often associated with wine vaults. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Roger, thank you for the info. But what does "Vaults" refer to? I've never heard this in relation to a hotel. Kay > > Kay, > The correct name is Pack Horse Hotel & Vaults. Proprietor in 1903/4 was > Joshua Elcox. > > Roger > > On 5 February 2011 20:27, Katherine Andrews <clancykla@msn.com> wrote: > > > > > I found a great aunt, Mary Frances Andrews, living and working as a bar > > maid in 1901 at the Park House Hotel (I think this is the name) on St. > > Nicholas street. > > > > can anyone give me any info about this hotel? Do I have the name correct? > > > > Thank you for any help, > > > > Kay Andrews > > Pittsburgh, PA > > > > >

Kay, The correct name is Pack Horse Hotel & Vaults. Proprietor in 1903/4 was Joshua Elcox. Roger On 5 February 2011 20:27, Katherine Andrews <clancykla@msn.com> wrote: > > I found a great aunt, Mary Frances Andrews, living and working as a bar > maid in 1901 at the Park House Hotel (I think this is the name) on St. > Nicholas street. > > can anyone give me any info about this hotel? Do I have the name correct? > > Thank you for any help, > > Kay Andrews > Pittsburgh, PA > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WORCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I found a great aunt, Mary Frances Andrews, living and working as a bar maid in 1901 at the Park House Hotel (I think this is the name) on St. Nicholas street. can anyone give me any info about this hotel? Do I have the name correct? Thank you for any help, Kay Andrews Pittsburgh, PA

Does anybody have PR's for St Nicholas that might give any extra information on the above marriage? Is it possible to get a certificate, and what might I see? Edmund and Mary have Ann 1826, James 1828, Elizabeth 1831 and William 1832, all at Ombersley. But I can't find a single one of the family in later census records. I do know Anne Davis married James Latham in 1847 in Worcester. But every variation of the others draws a blank. Peter in Sydney.

Ron, I think I've given you his grandparents. You might see if they were still living in 1841, although they'd be in their 60's. Remember to look in Lancashire. I'd also be asking how 1871 census shows a nine year old child when you say he married 1865. Have you tried for his marriage certificate which may show parents? You can apply online through GRO. Gus suggests an earlier marriage. While it may mean a separation, there should at least be an earlier marriage and possibly her death. I think there's still lots of areas for you to check. Peter

Ron, You may be looking only in Worcestershire. You need to look at all the census records that he should be in and cross check details for consistency. For example, in 1861 he is at Bilston, Staffs shown as a miner, nephew of widow Louisa Eldershaw & married. So he looks to be away from home. Perhaps his aunt was only recently widowed. In 1871, he is with wife Sarah. Their eldest child is 9, which suggests to me he only married just before 1861. Find his marriage and all his children on FreeBMD and confirm what you find in census records. You often find other children that perhaps died in infancy. Think about Louisa Eldershaw. She has to be his father's sister. Looking back at 1851, Louisa is with husband William Eldershaw. IGI has a marriage of William Eldershaw and Louisa Bridge in 1823. Further, Louisa was born 1803 and christened 1808 to parents Samuel and Ann. So by looking sideways, we find Andrew's grandparents. Unfortunately, there is no obvious record of other children to Samuel & Ann or of Andrew's birth. There are possible user submissions for a marriage of Samuel Bridge & Ann (Stott or Holt) in Bury Lancashire Who knows? I do know that there were lots of Lancashire records not given to LDS. You need to access these by parish on Lancashire OLPC. Try to locate Samuel's marriage under Bury and see what data it has. Then look for children born in Bury. Peter in Sydney

I wonder if anyone has any Hartwright research. IGI has two christenings at Dodderhill, Elizabeth 1805 and Mary 1806 to parents George and Ann. Submitted trees at Ancestry suggest parents as George Hartwright b1767 & Ann Goodere, but they married in 1793. It seems strange that there are no children for 12 years. An online Hartwright website suggests a second marriage to Hannah Bromage but no date is given. It attributes Elizabeth and Mary to the second marriage along with Judith 1810 and Caroline 1816 baptised at Upton. It ignores George 1818 and James 1822, both on the same Upton batch. Does anybody have access to any records that might prove a death for Ann or the marriage to Hannah? Peter

Hi, This is my first posting to this list and hope that sks will be able to help me. My wife's gr grandfather Andrew Bridge, according to census sheets, was born in Dudley, Worcestershire in approx. 1828. I can find quite a number of Bridge families for this area but none mention Andrew. If somebody has the parish registers for this village could they possibly see if Andrew is mentioned and who his parents are please. I have looked in the LDS IGI with no success. There was an Andrew Bridge who married an Ann Turley in 1817 in Dudley and wondered if they could be his parents. Regards Ron Weeks in Melbourne, Australia

Hello Ron, Unfortunately your request isn't quite as simple as it may sound, mainly because the "village" of Dudley had a population of over 23,000 in 1831, and was a strongly non-conformist area with *many* different chapels for which no registers survive. AFAIK, the CofE registers of St Thomas have been fully extracted to the IGI as have those non-conformist chapels who surrendered their registers to the PRO after 1837 - and there are no hits on IGI. Perhaps your only hope here to narrow-down the search for his parents is to trace his marriage and buy the certificate to find out his father's name - although I can see distinct difficulties here, too. It would seem that he had split from his first wife [name unknown, but possibly Mary or Martha] and that his 'relationship' with Sarah looks to've been without the blessing of church or state... [Divorce in 1860 *was* possible for Ordinary Folk without the expense of obtaining an Act of Parliament, but it was still beyond the reach of a coal miner such as Andrew.] Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Weeks" <rdweeks@bigpond.com> To: <ENG-WORCESTER@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:22 AM Subject: [WOR] Andrew Bridge > Hi, > > This is my first posting to this list and hope that sks will be able to > help > me. > > My wife's gr grandfather Andrew Bridge, according to census sheets, was > born > in Dudley, Worcestershire in approx. 1828. > > I can find quite a number of Bridge families for this area but none > mention > Andrew. If somebody has the parish registers for this village could they > possibly see if Andrew is mentioned and who his parents are please. I > have > looked in the LDS IGI with no success. > > There was an Andrew Bridge who married an Ann Turley in 1817 in Dudley and > wondered if they could be his parents. > > Regards > > Ron Weeks in Melbourne, Australia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WORCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Andrea, Polly has found their marriage, but before you rush off spending money on certificates, try working back through the census records. In 1891 and 1881 they should be with parents and any brothers and sisters. I presume you have access to census records as you found 1911. If not, try around your local libraries or family history centres for free access to Ancestry or FindMyPast. Using Census records and the FreeBMD site that Polly mentioned, you should be able to work back to early 1800's. Peter in Sydney

Hi All, I am new to the list, I am looking for Richard FRANKS (born Oxfordshire) married to Caroline/Kate Taylor? (born Oxfordshire) In the 1911 census they have a son named Tommy aged 7y, Richard and his family are living in Evesham. Can anyone help with this family. Regards Andrea Franks

Hi Andrea, BMSGH (Birmingham and Midland Society for Genealogy and Heraldry) have recently taken over the management of the Evesham Index, 20,000 card references to Evesham and it's environs. TAYLOR is listed as a name that occurs in that Index. For more information go to our website http://www.bromsgrovebmsgh.co.uk/ then go to Worcestershire Resources in the Resources box on the left. There is a link to the current holder of the Index who will tell you about the TAYLOR held. No promises that it's the correct family though. There also a Worcestershire Families forum board that you may wish to post to. It's free and you don't have to be a BMSGH member. Hope that helps. Cheers Mike Yegwart Branch Chairman Bromsgrove BMSGH The Family History Site for Worcestershire, now with a Forum board for your queries. http://www.bromsgrovebmsgh.co.uk/ On 31/01/2011 09:56, Polly Rubery wrote: > Hi Andrea > > Welcome to the List. > > > From FreeBMD (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/) this would appear to be > Richard's marriage: > > Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Boswell Elizabeth Evesham 6c 501 > Franks Richard Humphrey Evesham 6c 501 > FRANKS Richard William Evesham 6c 501 > Spragg Edward Evesham 6c 501 > TAYLOR Catherine Evesham 6c 501 > > Looking at the original scan, Richard William is the correct transcription, > Richard Himphrey is an error (the next entry is a William Humphrey). > > If you order this marriage certificate (which you can do online at > http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ ) this should give you > details of their ages, residence (at the time of the marriage) and > occupations, together with the names of their fathers and their occupations. > This should allow you to pin-point their birth certificates to order them... > Kind regards > Polly > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "andrea Franks"<andreafranks@pmcinst.co.za> > To:<ENG-WORCESTER@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:35 AM > Subject: [WOR] Looking for Richard FRANKS > > > Hi All, > > > > I am new to the list, > > I am looking for Richard FRANKS (born Oxfordshire) married to Caroline/Kate > Taylor? (born Oxfordshire) > > In the 1911 census they have a son named Tommy aged 7y, Richard and his > family are living in Evesham. > > Can anyone help with this family. > > > > Regards > > Andrea Franks > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WORCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WORCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Andrea Welcome to the List. >From FreeBMD (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/) this would appear to be Richard's marriage: Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Boswell Elizabeth Evesham 6c 501 Franks Richard Humphrey Evesham 6c 501 FRANKS Richard William Evesham 6c 501 Spragg Edward Evesham 6c 501 TAYLOR Catherine Evesham 6c 501 Looking at the original scan, Richard William is the correct transcription, Richard Himphrey is an error (the next entry is a William Humphrey). If you order this marriage certificate (which you can do online at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ ) this should give you details of their ages, residence (at the time of the marriage) and occupations, together with the names of their fathers and their occupations. This should allow you to pin-point their birth certificates to order them... Kind regards Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "andrea Franks" <andreafranks@pmcinst.co.za> To: <ENG-WORCESTER@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:35 AM Subject: [WOR] Looking for Richard FRANKS Hi All, I am new to the list, I am looking for Richard FRANKS (born Oxfordshire) married to Caroline/Kate Taylor? (born Oxfordshire) In the 1911 census they have a son named Tommy aged 7y, Richard and his family are living in Evesham. Can anyone help with this family. Regards Andrea Franks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WORCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Trevor, See this submitted tree at Rootsweb http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=cft2008&id=P-1132212160 The research seems to follow the line of Charles b1826 brother of your William Checketts. It all but confirms your assumptions, and gets back a bit earlier. The only differences I can see at a brief check are that Francis Checketts married Sarah Thornton (not Weston) and the husband of Mary Bushells was William John Checketts not John Checketts. Quite often we focus only on our own direct lines and forget that many other distant cousins are tracking back almost parallel to the same common ancestors. Peter