Hello from Massachsuetts, Frances Margaret Rawlins was born 1880 in Leamington Spa. and her sister Isabel Rawlins was born 1879 in Leamington Spa. After their father died, their mother remarried the boys were kept at home and the two girls were sent to: 1891 Census County: Worcestershire Civil Parish: Belbroughton Eccl. Parish: St. Leonard's Reg. Dist: Bromsgrove Sub-Reg. Dist: Belbroughton Address: Home for Waifs & Strays (*18 girls between the ages of 4 and 15 at this home) SMITH, Emily; matron; S; 28; matron of childrens' home; born: Worcestershire, Halesowen RAWLINS, Isabel; 11; scholar; born: Warwickshire, Leamington RAWLINS, Frances M.; 10; scholar; born: Warwickshire, Leamington I cannot locate them after this date................I would dearly like to know what happened to these relatives. Any Suggestions? Regards, Carol

Hello eveyone, I would like to order a death certificate from the Public Records Office for an ancestor found. Could someone tell me if there is sufficient information in the B M D entry shown below to make an application Deaths Sep 1850 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- JARVIS Richard Shipston on Stour 11 273 Thanks, Colin Jarvis.

Hi Colin, That information,with the year (1850)and quarter(Sept) is enough,this is of course,I presume,volume 11,page 273. you can order online,I have done this for sometime. Joyce http://www.col.statistics.gov.uk/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "colin jarvis" <colcon2@bigpond.com> To: <ENG-WORCESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 2:57 AM Subject: [WOR] Information required to order a death certificate. > Hello eveyone, > I would like to order a death certificate from the Public Records Office for an ancestor found. > Could someone tell me if there is sufficient information in the B M D entry shown below to make an application > Deaths Sep 1850 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > JARVIS Richard Shipston on Stour 11 273 > > Thanks, > > Colin Jarvis. > > > ==== ENG-WORCESTER Mailing List ==== > For Worcestershire information see > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WOR/ > UK Census on-line > http://freecen.rootsweb.com/ > http://www.worcestershiresurnames.co.uk/ > >

Hello Joan et al, Yes. Worcester has an excellent Park n'ride system. It's on the A38 just to the north of the city. Take a look at their website: http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/home/cs-transport-park-ride/cs-transport-park-ride-cost.htm Regards David Pearsall does the city have a park-and-ride scheme ? > > Kind regards > Joan > > > ==== ENG-WORCESTER Mailing List ==== > Transcribers wanted for Worcestershire FreeREG > for more information see http://freereg.rootsweb.com > UK Census on-line > http://freecen.rootsweb.com/ > http://www.worcestershiresurnames.co.uk/ > > >

<From: Jennifer Penner <jennifer_penner@alumni.sfu.ca> <Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 07:35:24 -0700 <To: ENG-WORCESTER-L@rootsweb.com <Subject: Popwick lunatic assylum <Does anyone know the correct definition for idiot? Beside her occupation <it also said Ref, could be Rel. some of the other inmates had that on their <line as well. Any ideas what this means? Thanks Jenn ______________________________ Hi Jen, Linking it with the term "Village idiot" I have always assumed it meant Down's Syndrome, which has always been present in local populations with a high incidence in the children of older women. The babies had a much shorter lifespan before surgical intervention. The label seemed to indicate someone relatively harmless (rather than maniac of lunatic) but it carried a social stigma which meant that many who survived infancy were put into the workhouse out of sight of the local community. I wonder whether the term imbecile was linked with other condition such as cerebral palsy. Someone else may know this! Best wishes Lin Watterson On the sunny Isle of Wight. Current interests include CLIFFORD (Lichfield Staffs and Birmingham) THOMAS (Dudley) and PEARSON (Dudley)

Hi Jenn, just a thought to add to the debate. Weren't most children described as Scholar's whether they attended School or not? The description does seem uniformly used to describe the status of a child, probably to keep the authorities at bay. Best Wishes from Linda.

Hi All Can some one look up a marriage for me in St marys oldswinford it took place on the 16 oct 1850 Between Samuel Fletcher and Matilda Griffiths I need to know the names of the fathers and also if they were single or widows, and the name of the witnesses. thanks all Steve --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos

Hi Joan Yes there is a card index at the Worcester Family History Centre for all parish apprentices. Regards Jacquie

After a long break I am once again on the trail of my HOLDEN's. in 1844 John HOLDEN was born in Albany Terrace, Worcester North, Worcester. His parents are named as John HOLDEN (farmer)? and Emma HOLDEN formerly HOLDEN? I believe from a book he wrote later in life that he was baptised on the Easter Sunday of that year - can anyone advise how I can find this information? I have tried searching the 1861 census for the family to no avail and wonder if sks could find them on the 1851 census. On John Jnr's later marriage he gave his father's occupation as member of parliament, but I have not been able to find any evidence to support this as yet. Many thanks in advance. Susan

I would appreciate a lookup for William and Matilda COOK in 1871 census. Their son John, age 10, is with his grandmother, Mary WATERS, 52, widow, in Redditch in the 1871 census. In 1861 the family appears as WALTERS in STS (thanks for this to Denise): 1861 UK Census Staffordshire Parish of Sedgley, Borough of Wolverhampton, Village of Woodsetton #167 Swan Village WATERS William head M 41 lab in ironwork b. WAR Alcester Mary wife M 40 needle maker b.WOR Redditch Jane dau 11 scholar b. WOR Headless Cross Thomas son 6 scholar b. WOR Redditch COOK William son-in-law M 21 lab in ironwork WOR Kiddeminster Matilda dau M 21 needle maker b. WOR Headless Cross John son ? mos b. STS Sedgley It would appear that William WATERS died before 1871 and grandson John is with his grandmother, daughter Jane 21 and son Thomas 16 in Redditch. Have found a Matilda in the 1881 census but need to confirm the son Albert. Hoping the 1871 will answer this question. 1881 Census UK Dudley Worcester Matilda COOK Head W Female 46 Rowley, Stafford, England Laundress Albert COOK Son U Male 15 Netherton, Worcester, England Iron Worker Dwelling Hampton Street Census Place Dudley, Worcester, England Family History Library Film 1341691 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 2881 / 102 Page Number 65 Thanks in advance to very helpful members of this list. Dawn -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - Release Date: 5/9/05

Hi, I'm trying to find out about John and Emma Maund. John was born either 1812 or 1823 in Worcester and was a baker. He married Emma who was born about 1819 in Bath Somerset. They had at least four children, John Maund born 1850 Birkenhead, Cheshire, Elizabeth Maund born 1852 Birmingham, Warwickshire, George Maund born 1854 Manchester, Lancashire and Edward Maund born 1857 Manchester, Lancashire. From 1861 onwards they were living in Liverpool. Does anyone know anything about this family? Thanks Claire

Hi Elaine Today was your lucky day! I saw your note just before leaving for Worcester - I was going to pop into the record office today, and strangely wanted to look at some Hanbury records myself! Anyway, details below of what I found :- ALL ENTRIES ARE FOR HANBURY. Marriage 12 Nov 1816 Thomas Barber (of this parish) m. Mary Powel (of this parish). Both made their mark, witnesses were Joseph Powel (made his mark) and Thomas Grazier (signed). Checked Baptisms and Burials from 1813 - 1840 Baptisms - in every case the address given was Hanbury and the occupation labourer Date Name 7 Sep 1817 Thomas 13 Feb 1820 William 11 Feb 1821 James 23 Feb 1823 Timothy 21 Aug 1825 George 9 Mar 1828 John 1 Jul 1832 Sally 10 Sep 1835 Samuel 17 Sep 1837 Eliza One burial - 23 Feb 1820, an 8 day old William Finally, the 1841 census as follows :- HO107/1201/42 Hanbury Thomas 45 Ag Lab Yes Mary 40 (Unreadable) Yes Thomas 20 Lab Yes James 20 Ag labour Yes Samuel 6 Yes Eliza 4 Yes Hope this helps, I never found the entries I originally went for! Best wishes Ian Preece PREECE FAMILY HISTORY & ONE NAME STUDY www.preece67.fsnet.co.uk Now over 100,000 entries , but have you sent YOUR Preece links to me yet..... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06/05/2005

Hello Gus, Many thanks for the information on apprenticeship records. I'll check with the Record Office but will be prepared to draw a blank. Kind regards Joan

Jennifer: In the 19th century the terms "idiot", "imbecile" and "moron" were regarded as proper and distinct medical terms, with precise descriptions. If I recall correctly (and I may not) an idiot was more intelligent than an imbecile or a moron. In the 20th century these terms were given definitions based on IQ. I don't remember the exact numbers, but an idiot would have been defined as having an IQ of (say) 50-70. Times have changed. Best wishes Paul Prescott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Penner" <jennifer_penner@alumni.sfu.ca> To: <ENG-WORCESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: [WOR] Popwick lunatic assylum > Does anyone know the correct definition for idiot? Beside her occupation > it also said Ref, could be Rel. some of the other inmates had that on > their line as well. Any ideas what this means? Thanks Jenn > > > ==== ENG-WORCESTER Mailing List ==== > Transcribers wanted for Worcestershire FreeREG > for more information see http://freereg.rootsweb.com > UK Census on-line > http://freecen.rootsweb.com/ > http://www.worcestershiresurnames.co.uk/ > >

This girl seems to have been fine at 12, was listed as a scholar, could she have had an accident or illness? Or would that have been listed differently? Jenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "John B Davies" <jbdavies@maxitec.co.za> To: "'Jennifer Penner'" <jennifer_penner@alumni.sfu.ca>; <ENG-WORCESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: RE: [WOR] Popwick lunatic assylum > Hello Jenn > > First. I think that Powick was the correct name for the asylum. > > Second. The various terms used for mental defect 100 and more years ago > were mainly based upon the individual's mental and social capacity as > perceived by others. Medical terms in use today usually have more exact > and narrow definitions based upon cause or pathological change. The > meaning of words also changes over time. One must not interpret words on > old documents in today's sense. > > People described mental defect in those times largely by external > appearances rather than a discrete recognition of cause. > > Thus - a downward scale of mental defect would run from "simple minded", > through "moron" and "imbecile" to the severest which was "idiot". The > important point is that these were FROM BIRTH. A simple minded person > could just cope with life's problems. An idiot was quite incapable of > personal care. Of course a rural society with large families could cope > with simple minded members. Today in a complex urban society with small > families this is not possible. There were and are many possible causes > of these mental defects - Birth injury - Congenital syphilis - Maternal > malnutrition are only a few. "Mongolian Idiocy" now called Down's > syndrome was and is the commonest genetically caused type of idiocy, but > even here there are degrees of severity from almost complete > independence to complete incapacity for personal care. > > All this is quite separate from "lunacy", "madness" and so on which was > acquired after a normal start in life and is not relevant to your > question. > The whole subject is very large and cannot and should not be examined in > this venue. > > In these mawkish and "politically correct" days all this is dangerous > ground and no doubt some people might be offended. We are all historians > however, and can regard the past dispassionately. If some people are > upset, I can only apologise. Only clarity and not offence is intended. > > John B Davies > Hermanus, South Africa > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Penner [mailto:jennifer_penner@alumni.sfu.ca] > > Subject: [WOR] Popwick lunatic assylum > > Does anyone know the correct definition for idiot. >

I wonder if anyone on the List has any Parish records for Hanbury & Shrawley? I am looking for Thomas BARBER who is quoted on 1851 Census as being born in Shrawley and it would have been circa 1793. I believe he married a Mary ? born in Hanbury, circa 1792. I believe he had at least 4 children, Thomas, circa 1818, Timothy, Circa 1821, George 1824 and Eliza 1838, although there are some gaps in those years and there may well have been more children. The above information I have been given from the 1851 Census and I wonder if anyone on the list has the 1841 Census and if they appear on that? I regret I do not know if it is indexed. I would appreciate any help at all with this family. Thank you very much Elaine McLean

Hi, On the 1901 census my gg grandfather John Panting was at Park Farm, Great and Little Hampton - On the 1861 census John was at a farm in Ashton under Hill but some of his children were farming Four Pools Farm, Evesham - I think this may have later been named as Park Farm as an earlier ancestor (another John Panting) had a farm at Great and Little Hampton and this was probably passed on to them. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEREK NELSON" <derekn@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-WORCESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 5:25 PM Subject: FIRKINS at Great & Little Hampton > Hello Listers > > My research brings me to Worcestershire > > In the 1871 census an address is given as what looks like : > > > Parish of Little Hampton > Park Farm, Great Hampton > Worcestershire > > It must have been quite a large farm for those days as it covers an area of 306 acres. > > My problem is............. i cannot find Great Hampton, Little Hampton or Park Farm on any maps on the web. > > Does anyone know of Park Farm? Does it exist today? > > The family name of the farmer is FIRKINS > > Any help wouold be much appreciated. > Regards > Derek the Man from Kent > > ______________________________

Would be grateful if SKS is able to trace John and Lucy Pumfrey(born Bewdley abt 1824) for me in the 1851 census. They have 2 children John Hillman( b abt 1844) and Mary Ann (b abt 1843). The children were born in Droitwich but by 1861 they are in Edgbaston Birmingham. Many thanks Julie

Does anyone know the correct definition for idiot? Beside her occupation it also said Ref, could be Rel. some of the other inmates had that on their line as well. Any ideas what this means? Thanks Jenn

Hello Listers, I have no experience of researching family history in Worcs. and would appreciate some advice, please. My great grandfather, William TAYLOR, was living in Great Hampton at the time of the 1851 census, aged 14 and working as an Ag Lab. When he married in 1860 in Bordesley, Birmingham, he gave his occupation as 'wheelwright'. I assume that he would have had to serve an apprenticeship -- most probably in Worcs. Can someone please tell me if there are accessible apprenticeship records for Worcs. for the mid- 1800s and if so, where they are held. Kind regards Joan Rotorua New Zealand