Moss, Sharon ENV:EX wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Sorry for posting on a county list, but I just wanted to know if anyone > uses & suscribes (via pay per view or other) to findmypast.com. I've > been on it a few times and wonder if it's worth it or not. The price > for pay per view seems reasonable, but wonder how much additional > information I'd really get than what I can get on freebmd/freecen and > other free resources on the 'net. Findmypast has the GRO indexes to 2005 but only the births and deaths for 2006. The UK Passport office which now controls the GRO has decided that the marriages for 2006 and BMDs for 2007 onwards will no longer be made available on the net. They'll only be available to personal callers at just five centres in England and Wales. Local register offices are apparently not allowing access either. FreeBMD only has the indexes to about 1920 at the moment. Findmypast has the 1841, 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 census (with superior indexing) with the 1851 and 1901 censuses to follow by the end of this year. You can take a tour of the site, free of charge, and that's the best way to see what they have. You are the only one who can really decide whether is is worthwhile or not since you are the one who'll be using it. None can make the decision for you beyond saying they love it or hate it.

Thank you everyone that tried to help find 37 Arthur St, St Helen's. It does indeed appear to be no longer there having been swallowed up by development of one sort of another. An old map site sent to me did find it in the late 1800's. Best wishes to you all May in West Oz

Hi everyone, Sorry for posting on a county list, but I just wanted to know if anyone uses & suscribes (via pay per view or other) to findmypast.com. I've been on it a few times and wonder if it's worth it or not. The price for pay per view seems reasonable, but wonder how much additional information I'd really get than what I can get on freebmd/freecen and other free resources on the 'net. Tia, Sharon In victoria, BC canada

Did I not say this subject is closed PLEASE lets get back to list business as before Dave On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 12:34 +0100, Bob New wrote: > I qualify to join this thread by being a Worcestershire man and the coordinator of the Surname NEW Y-DNA Testing Project. A William NEW was recorded in the 1327 Glos. Subsidy Roll in Northway, between Ashchurch and Tewkesbury, just 10 miles away from Evesham where I was born over 600 years later. The NEW family of Evesham are well documented from c.1600 and three of us, distant cousins, have been Y-DNA tested, and match. In total, 27 generations separate the three of us. Our most recent common ancestor, James NEW, was born c.1655 and died in 1725. We don't know for certain who his father was. It was soon after the English Civil War(s) and may be obscured by an association with the Quakers. One of James's properties exists today as one of those in the frontage of the Quaker Meeting House on Cowl Street, Evesham. > > However, a representative of a NEW family that came from Defford, just 8 miles from Evesham, and moved to Eldersfield 12 miles further away about 1749 has been Y-DNA tested and doesn't match us from Evesham. This is unexpected because of the geographical proximity and also because the I.G.I. (on www.familysearch.com) claims that the Richard NEW of Defford is the same as a Richard NEW who was the grandson of the James NEW, c.1655-1725, mentioned above. The IGI records were however "submitted by members of the LDS church". The mismatch remains to be explained, and we need another contributor from that family. > > I have genealogies for a NEW family of Ripple and a NEW family of Worcester, but need DNA contributors from both. > > A map of the distribution of the NEW name in England from the 1881 Census clearly indicates (but doesn't prove) that the name originated perhaps once only in the southern counties, Hampshire or Wiltshire, and spread from there. It was/is commonest in Portsmouth. Of the 17 contributors to the Surname NEW Y-DNA Testing Project the nearest to the three of us from Evesham is a 10/12 marker 'match' with a NEW who originates from the Isle of Wight. This 10/12 score is not good enough to claim a real match; 12 markers isn't enough, but it does raise hopes. > > Most of the other NEWs tested are from North American. Five of them match, and one of them has a good paper trail to (another) Richard NEW c.1620-c1681 a pioneer in Virginia. For none of these North American NEWs can we yet establish an English origin (or even continental if the name was originally NEU). Incidentally, one 'British' NEW who claimed a Huguenot origin 'matched' 10/12 a NEU in America who also had a family tradition of a Huguenot origin. As I said before 12 markers isn't enough to be certain. > > Another aspect of the Y-DNA testing is our "haplogroups". Most of the NEWs are R1b, as indeed are, say, 70% of the 'English' population. The Welsh are about 90% and the Irish more than 95%, with similar figures for the Iberian peninsula, with the Basques at nominally 100%. In direct male line we are descendants of the original Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers who repopulated these Isles after the end of the Ice Age 12,500 years ago. The reason I don't look Basque is because of all the women partners of my male-line ancestors. That's where the differences come from. My ancestors have also changed their language. From something originally shared with the Basques, and perhaps last spoken in this country by the Atecotti (in 'Scotland'), to Celtic and then to English. > > One of the NEWs and a NEU were E3b indicating an origin with the agriculturists from the Middle East, and another NEW was I1b1 from the Balkans, perhaps via a Roman mercenary. We can only speculate! > > DNA contributors of any and all surnames are needed. There may well be a Surname group who will snap up a result. > Try http://www.dnalist.net/ for your surname. Population and Migration route studies depend on a mass of results. Your DNA result will still be useful in 100 years or for much longer into the future. What else can you leave that will be so useful (besides descendants!)? The costs of tests has already appeared in this thread and I don't dare to repeat them (too commercial) but there are FREE tests offered by the Sorenson Foundation http://www.smgf.org/ . Select Y-database or mtDatabase at the bottom LHS of the page. Results take up to 2 years or more to appear in their databases; your identity (except surname) is concealed but you can recognise your result from the pedigree that you supply. The test involves a mouthwash or scrapping the inside of your cheek with a cotton bud. > > Bob New > coordinator of the Surname NEW Y-DNA Testing Project > coordinator of the SAYCE Y-DNA Testing Project > admin. of the [email protected] list > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I qualify to join this thread by being a Worcestershire man and the coordinator of the Surname NEW Y-DNA Testing Project. A William NEW was recorded in the 1327 Glos. Subsidy Roll in Northway, between Ashchurch and Tewkesbury, just 10 miles away from Evesham where I was born over 600 years later. The NEW family of Evesham are well documented from c.1600 and three of us, distant cousins, have been Y-DNA tested, and match. In total, 27 generations separate the three of us. Our most recent common ancestor, James NEW, was born c.1655 and died in 1725. We don't know for certain who his father was. It was soon after the English Civil War(s) and may be obscured by an association with the Quakers. One of James's properties exists today as one of those in the frontage of the Quaker Meeting House on Cowl Street, Evesham. However, a representative of a NEW family that came from Defford, just 8 miles from Evesham, and moved to Eldersfield 12 miles further away about 1749 has been Y-DNA tested and doesn't match us from Evesham. This is unexpected because of the geographical proximity and also because the I.G.I. (on www.familysearch.com) claims that the Richard NEW of Defford is the same as a Richard NEW who was the grandson of the James NEW, c.1655-1725, mentioned above. The IGI records were however "submitted by members of the LDS church". The mismatch remains to be explained, and we need another contributor from that family. I have genealogies for a NEW family of Ripple and a NEW family of Worcester, but need DNA contributors from both. A map of the distribution of the NEW name in England from the 1881 Census clearly indicates (but doesn't prove) that the name originated perhaps once only in the southern counties, Hampshire or Wiltshire, and spread from there. It was/is commonest in Portsmouth. Of the 17 contributors to the Surname NEW Y-DNA Testing Project the nearest to the three of us from Evesham is a 10/12 marker 'match' with a NEW who originates from the Isle of Wight. This 10/12 score is not good enough to claim a real match; 12 markers isn't enough, but it does raise hopes. Most of the other NEWs tested are from North American. Five of them match, and one of them has a good paper trail to (another) Richard NEW c.1620-c1681 a pioneer in Virginia. For none of these North American NEWs can we yet establish an English origin (or even continental if the name was originally NEU). Incidentally, one 'British' NEW who claimed a Huguenot origin 'matched' 10/12 a NEU in America who also had a family tradition of a Huguenot origin. As I said before 12 markers isn't enough to be certain. Another aspect of the Y-DNA testing is our "haplogroups". Most of the NEWs are R1b, as indeed are, say, 70% of the 'English' population. The Welsh are about 90% and the Irish more than 95%, with similar figures for the Iberian peninsula, with the Basques at nominally 100%. In direct male line we are descendants of the original Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers who repopulated these Isles after the end of the Ice Age 12,500 years ago. The reason I don't look Basque is because of all the women partners of my male-line ancestors. That's where the differences come from. My ancestors have also changed their language. >From something originally shared with the Basques, and perhaps last spoken in this country by the Atecotti (in 'Scotland'), to Celtic and then to English. One of the NEWs and a NEU were E3b indicating an origin with the agriculturists from the Middle East, and another NEW was I1b1 from the Balkans, perhaps via a Roman mercenary. We can only speculate! DNA contributors of any and all surnames are needed. There may well be a Surname group who will snap up a result. Try http://www.dnalist.net/ for your surname. Population and Migration route studies depend on a mass of results. Your DNA result will still be useful in 100 years or for much longer into the future. What else can you leave that will be so useful (besides descendants!)? The costs of tests has already appeared in this thread and I don't dare to repeat them (too commercial) but there are FREE tests offered by the Sorenson Foundation http://www.smgf.org/ . Select Y-database or mtDatabase at the bottom LHS of the page. Results take up to 2 years or more to appear in their databases; your identity (except surname) is concealed but you can recognise your result from the pedigree that you supply. The test involves a mouthwash or scrapping the inside of your cheek with a cotton bud. Bob New coordinator of the Surname NEW Y-DNA Testing Project coordinator of the SAYCE Y-DNA Testing Project admin. of the [email protected] list

During May we will be visiting the Gallipoli peninsula and would be very happy to take any photos of memorials or cemeteries - please send me any requests you may have. Regards Lyn _________________________________________________________________ Win 100’s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com http://www.bigsnapsearch.com

My 2x Gt.grandfather was WILLIAM LEATHAM - born circa 1808/09 and he lived and worked as a cordwainer in Dudley, Worcestershire. It was here he also raised his family, and they were virtually the only ones of that name in the whole county for some 40 odd years. Although he appears on several censuses [1841-1871] he put "Not known" when it came to his place of birth. He married Elizabeth LEECH at West Bromwich, Staffordshire in 1827, however the record erroneously gives his name as LATHAM. After 12 years I am no closer to tracing his origins. The only vague hint I have is that his son GEORGE JOSIAH b 1846 became a lay clerk at York Cathedral, and later at Durham. Other children were MARYANN b1829; GEORGE UNDERHILL b1832; ELIZABETH UNDERHILL b1834; WILLIAM b 1837; SARAH b 1839; RACHEL b 1841; LOUISA CATHERINE b 1848, and ELLEN b 1851. ANY help in making a connection would be greatly appreciated, I would dearly love this fruitless search to bear a crop. Keith Lloyd [ex Kidderminster, Worcs.] Adelaide. Sth. Australia Main family names:- GROOM. LLOYD. OWEN. TART. - Shrops/Staffs. DUDLEY. GREENFIELD. LEATHAM. LEECH. PEARSON. SILVERS. UNDERHILL. - Staffs/Worcs. OSBALDESTON. Anywhere in the Midlands.

Mike Tend to agree , not suitable subject for County specific lists - there are many Rootsweb Mail Lists for DNA subject, 166 in fact. at http://bigfile.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch Regards Helen New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Fisher Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WAR] Warks Gene Pool Hi All don't say this topic has got onto this list as well. Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree is at http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr Happy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [WAR] Warks Gene Pool > > Hi, > > For anyone who has, or is thinking of, getting their DNA tested there is a > project which may interest them. It is called the British Isles DNA > Project and its main aims are "to assemble a detailed haplogroup map of > the British Isles by county, corresponding to the DNA profile of the > region's early history and settlement." I interpret this as trying to > establish whether the "gene pools" of counties can be identified. > > Warks surnames listed are:- > > BURTON > DRURY > GOODALL > HAWKINS > HOLMES > JEFFCOAT > LAPWORTH > LEES > PERKINS > SEWALL/SEWELL > SNELL > STRINGER > WOODCHURCH > > The project's address is http://www.britishislesdna.com/index.htm > > I hope this is of interest and that some of you consider adding your > results to this study so that we can get a better picture of the county's > genes. > > :-) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap > http://www.bigsnapsearch.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would not be quite so dismissive - and while I agree that the DNA list is the place to go into details, it is not much use as an introduction to the subject. So may I just say I was also (very) sceptical about DNA testing in genealogy but that I've changed my mind about Y-DNA since reading Chris Pomery's book "DNA and Family History". This is the best read I have found on the subject, from a genealogist and/or one-namer point of view - it clarifies the science, and explains the uses. Disclaimer: I have no affiliation etc. etc. After following up further, I'm convinced Y-DNA is a genuine genealogical tool to use in conjunction with documentary evidence, though obviously of limited application as it's only good for the pure male line. While it's true that the results are statistical, they're still useful - a multi-point mismatch pretty much disproves a close connection, while a medium-to-high resolution full match is an extremely strong indication of a common male ancestor within the last few centuries (remember that many courts accept this as proof of paternity). It's illuminating to look at actual Y-DNA results alongside associated documentary research, which can be found on the web. And remember that documentary evidence is not proof either - just part of a weight of evidence. Yes Y-DNA is no magic wand, but it is a genuine tool, so why dismiss altogether? I plan to join my name study and be tested, as I come from an Australian branch of a particular English family (that I have researched in usual way), with the connection absolutely undocumented in England yet thoroughly documented in Australia (a tale of a remittance man*, abandonment of wife and children, bigamy, suicide, a chancery case, ...). Y-DNA testing is a tool for such a situation; and though this name database is still fairly small, I am in touch with an English branch of my family (female 5th cousin) and plan to sponsor a test if there is a willing male there. Regards Steve * remittance man = son of a "good" British family who disgraced them and was banished to the Colonies, where he was remitted funds as long as he stayed there. Firebird wrote: > Mal Platt-Grigg wrote: > >> They are actually testing male Y-DNA, which remains virtually unchanged >> through the male line. >> > > That rules out my participation then. I've no brothers and my > father's been dead 30 years. Not that I intended participating anyway. > > >> I, for one, think this is fascinating technology albeit in it's infancy. As >> the database grows, it will become a valuable tool in genealogy. >> > > I don't think it will be "a valuable tool in genealogy". It can't > prove anything. At best it can suggest that a link *might* be > possible and that it *might* be around a certain (vague) point in the > past. It can't tell me the name of an ancestor or where s/he was born > or when. It might be able to rule in, or out, another family of the > same name but without a paper trail, without hard proof, DNA testing > is worthless. Tracking back on the female line is an exercise in > futility since it can't name names or places or give dates and the > mother's name invariably changes generation on generation. > > As far as I'm concerned it's just an expensive gimmick, a new toy, a > wishful thinking short cut to a family tree without all the hard work > - and that's all. Good luck to those with money to waste. Personally, > I'd rather spend the hundreds of pounds these tests cost on the > volumes of the VCH I would like, or a fistful of certificates that > would provide links, or the fares and overnight accommodation to a > record office some distance from my home. > > DNA testing is not all it's cracked up to be. > > However, Rootsweb do have a DNA mailing list where this tedious > subject can be discussed with like minded people. > >

Ok Gang This stops here please, lets get back to what the list is for If need be I will moderate the list Dave http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=14

Mike Fry wrote: 8>< snipped for the sake of brevity > As the saying goes. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... Beautifully put :))

Steven Sims wrote: > After following up further, I'm convinced Y-DNA is a genuine > genealogical tool to use in conjunction with documentary evidence, > though obviously of limited application as it's only good for the > pure male line. And what happens when the documentary evidence doesn't exist? You're left with a fistful of airy fairy might bes, possibilities and perhapses that aren't worth the (modern) paper they're written on. Then there's the problem of there not being a living male on one particular branch of the family to test. Where do you go then? Into exhumation in the hope you might be able to get some DNA from the bones? What about cremations? No possible DNA there. Sorry, but I'm convinced that DNA testing is not a genuine genealogical tool at all. > While it's true that the results are statistical, they're still > useful - a multi-point mismatch pretty much disproves a close > connection, while a medium-to-high resolution full match is an > extremely strong indication of a common male ancestor within the > last few centuries "[A] common male ancestor within the last few centuries" Great!! Which century? Where? Date? Name? Place? DNA testing can't give that information, therefore, it is of no practical use. > (remember that many courts accept this as proof of paternity). That's DNA testing in connection with two living people, not between one living and one who died centuries ago. > It's illuminating to look at actual Y-DNA results alongside > associated documentary research, which can be found on the web. LOL Sorry but I don't see how it can possibly be "illuminating". > And remember that documentary evidence is not proof either - just > part of a weight of evidence. Yes Y-DNA is no magic wand, but it is > a genuine tool, so why dismiss altogether? Easy, because it is NOT a genuine tool, just a gimmick, a con that is supposed to have a magical answer to all those genealogical problems, a demolisher of brickwalls. If there is no documentary evidence to support a link between two dead individuals separated by a brickwall other than the possibility that there might be a link between them based on a DNA test, that brickwall still stands firm. Whilst documentary evidence may not be proof either, it's far more likely to be accepted in a court of law than some nebulous result from a DNA test involving long dead and undocumented alleged ancestor. I'm supposed to have connections to nobility (hasn't everyone?). Am I going to try to prove it? No. Why? Because I really don't care. There's no obvious documentary proof but some circumstantial evidence. What would it achieve if I could or did prove a descendency? Nothing. I've got better things to do with my time and money.

------ Forwarded Message From: John Sermon <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:41:14 +0100 To: <[email protected]> Conversation: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool Subject: FW: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool ------ Forwarded Message From: John Sermon <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:38:58 +0100 To: Mr Happy <[email protected]> Conversation: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool Subject: Re: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool The Sermon/Surman family which has its origins in Eldersfield in 1440 have carried out an extensive DNA study showing that we all have the same DNA, this has been so useful in as much as it shows that a family in America who are descended from an Edmund Sermon/Surman who was sent to Maryland aged 10 in about 1644 are all the same Severn Valley family We have also carried out a study of the Sirman/Surman family of the Thames Valley with its origins in 1500 and they have a totally differing DNA, as do the Surman family of Wiltshire origins 1650 and the Surman family of Buckinghamshire/Hertfordshire origins 1450 I have been involved in Family History for over fifty years and can vouch for the information above John S Sermon Chairman S*rm*n Family History Society On 7/4/08 14:43, "Mr Happy" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > For anyone who has, or is thinking of, getting their DNA tested there is a > project which may interest them. It is called the British Isles DNA Project > and its main aims are "to assemble a detailed haplogroup map of the British > Isles by county, corresponding to the DNA profile of the region's early > history and settlement." I interpret this as trying to establish whether the > "gene pools" of counties can be identified. > > Worcs surnames listed are:- > > BADSON > BLOUNT > GADD > HARRIS > MASON > > The project's address is http://www.britishislesdna.com/index.htm > > I hope this is of interest and that some of you consider adding your results > to this study so that we can get a better picture of the county's genes. > > :-) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Win 100¹s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com > http://www.bigsnapsearch.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------ End of Forwarded Message ------ End of Forwarded Message

Oops! No attachment intended the first time. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:00:40 +0200 From: Mike Fry <[email protected]> To: Mr Happy <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Mr Happy wrote: > Hi Mike, What you say is totally untrue and libellous. Please can you > give me your details so that my lawyers can initiate legal proceedings > against you. I should have added that he hides behind a pseudonym as well! I don't! Lets examine your statement shall we? According to my searching of the Rootsweb groups, the majority of your postings always seem to involve the use of DNA in one form or another. Okay! That might just be an indication that you're interested in DNA - why, I fail to understand unless you're trying to prove that your recorded ancestors aren't yours. To me, this is akin to those stupid Americans that try desperately hard to prove that they're related to royalty or their founding fathers. All DNA is ever going to prove beyond a couple of generations, is that your father is who your mother said he was and that the same is probably true for your grand-parents. Beyond that... who knows? To proceed. The recent set of threads that you started all seem to have the same pro-forma layout where you have simply filled-in the blanks of County, a few names that you're interested in and a plug for a website that is designed to make money by getting other fools to have their DNA tested. The obvious conclusion is that either you're concerned directly with the site, or that you're getting some kind of kick-back or reward from the owners of the site. Last, but not least. The blustering riposte of a found-out spammer along with the inevitable threat to go to law. As the saying goes. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg.

Sorry List. You must be quite puzzled as to what has been going on. Here's a sample. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg.

Hi All I am not happy with Mr Happy. I do not consider this a suitable subject for County specific lists - there are many Rootsweb Mail Lists for DNA discussion. Mike Fisher Wythall,WOR One-Place Genealogical Study http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wythallindex/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Sims" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool >I would not be quite so dismissive - and while I agree that the DNA list > is the place to go into details, it is not much use as an introduction > to the subject. > > So may I just say I was also (very) sceptical about DNA testing in > genealogy but that I've changed my mind about Y-DNA since reading Chris > Pomery's book "DNA and Family History". This is the best read I have > found on the subject, from a genealogist and/or one-namer point of view > - it clarifies the science, and explains the uses. Disclaimer: I have no > affiliation etc. etc. > > After following up further, I'm convinced Y-DNA is a genuine > genealogical tool to use in conjunction with documentary evidence, > though obviously of limited application as it's only good for the pure > male line. While it's true that the results are statistical, they're > still useful - a multi-point mismatch pretty much disproves a close > connection, while a medium-to-high resolution full match is an extremely > strong indication of a common male ancestor within the last few > centuries (remember that many courts accept this as proof of paternity). > It's illuminating to look at actual Y-DNA results alongside associated > documentary research, which can be found on the web. And remember that > documentary evidence is not proof either - just part of a weight of > evidence. Yes Y-DNA is no magic wand, but it is a genuine tool, so why > dismiss altogether? > > I plan to join my name study and be tested, as I come from an Australian > branch of a particular English family (that I have researched in usual > way), with the connection absolutely undocumented in England yet > thoroughly documented in Australia (a tale of a remittance man*, > abandonment of wife and children, bigamy, suicide, a chancery case, > ...). Y-DNA testing is a tool for such a situation; and though this name > database is still fairly small, I am in touch with an English branch of > my family (female 5th cousin) and plan to sponsor a test if there is a > willing male there. > > Regards > Steve > > * remittance man = son of a "good" British family who disgraced them and > was banished to the Colonies, where he was remitted funds as long as he > stayed there. > > Firebird wrote: >> Mal Platt-Grigg wrote: >> >>> They are actually testing male Y-DNA, which remains virtually unchanged >>> through the male line. >>> >> >> That rules out my participation then. I've no brothers and my >> father's been dead 30 years. Not that I intended participating anyway. >> >> >>> I, for one, think this is fascinating technology albeit in it's infancy. >>> As >>> the database grows, it will become a valuable tool in genealogy. >>> >> >> I don't think it will be "a valuable tool in genealogy". It can't >> prove anything. At best it can suggest that a link *might* be >> possible and that it *might* be around a certain (vague) point in the >> past. It can't tell me the name of an ancestor or where s/he was born >> or when. It might be able to rule in, or out, another family of the >> same name but without a paper trail, without hard proof, DNA testing >> is worthless. Tracking back on the female line is an exercise in >> futility since it can't name names or places or give dates and the >> mother's name invariably changes generation on generation. >> >> As far as I'm concerned it's just an expensive gimmick, a new toy, a >> wishful thinking short cut to a family tree without all the hard work >> - and that's all. Good luck to those with money to waste. Personally, >> I'd rather spend the hundreds of pounds these tests cost on the >> volumes of the VCH I would like, or a fistful of certificates that >> would provide links, or the fares and overnight accommodation to a >> record office some distance from my home. >> >> DNA testing is not all it's cracked up to be. >> >> However, Rootsweb do have a DNA mailing list where this tedious >> subject can be discussed with like minded people. >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

At the risk of being Off-Topic, "further to my last" I've now looked at the two sites involved in this, to find that it's not entirely as I'd believed... You have a choice of mitochondrial ["mtDNA" - female line only] or Y-chromosome ["Y-DNA" - male line, at 3 levels, of 12, 37 or 67 markers], or both. I'd (wrongly) assumed that it merely covered the basic mtDNA. But it'll cost you..... a) $129 for the basic mtDNA b) $149 for Y-DNA12 c) $189 for an enhanced mtDNA d) $259 for Y-DNA37 e) $349 for Y-DNA67 f) $229 for a + b g) $389 for c + d Which looks to be a Nice Business for the Testers although not exactly a cost-effective idea for a sole researcher... It doesn't tell you WHO your ancestors were (or even might have been) although if the database produces an exact match with someone already on it they will tell you both (if you've both given consent). The total database comprises 187,000 records - 122,000 Y-DNA; 65,000 mtDNA, accumulated over some 7 years. Which, to me, seems a pretty poor percentage of the 6,000,000,000 possible rellies Out There. As to the "County Gene Pool" theory, the whole thing seems to be based on very flimsy - not to say fuzzy - statistical analysis. The testers state that there's a 2 to 5% chance of 'irregularities' in every generation, which compounded over only 10 generations introduces a wide level of uncertainty once you get that far back. As a "valuable tool in genealogy" it's approaching the value of the motor-bike ashtray... Anyone who's done much serious research into Family History is only too well aware how prone our ancestors were to being Economical With The Truth to Census-takers, Registrars and the Clergy - and so knows that our Trees are likely to be as firm and rigid as balsa or bamboo. Nevertheless (if properly constructed) they are Legal Relationships, irrespective of the Genes involved.... There's a Big Difference here! Always remember the song whose last line is "Yo' Daddy ain' yo' Daddy, but yo' Daddy don' know"...... Gus

Hello, I have given this subject some thought over the past years, and come to the conclusion that whilst either test may assist those with a more unusual and possibly ethnically traceable name, it would not benefit persons such as myself with the very common Richardson surname. In this context, and as I consider that I am in a majority in the matter of a common surname;; I concur that this form of approach to help us find our ancestors is nothing more than a 'moneyspinner', Count me out John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erin Flory" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "'Gus Tysoe'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:56 AM Subject: Re: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool >I agree Malcolm. I've just sent off a kit to check my mitochondrial DNA >and > I've also ordered a kit for testing Y-DNA for one of the last direct male > descendents of our Izett family. One of the reasons I chose to test for > the > Y-DNA is that I've heard a variety of stories about the origin of the > Izett > name. Some claim a middle east origin and some claim that it is a form of > Isolda as of Tristan and Isolda. We've traced our branch back to 1800 in > Glasgow but would like to know if there is any truth to the middle east > origins. This seems the one way to see if it is true. > > DNA testing will not replace good old genealogical research, and who would > want it to, but it may give us more information and clues about our past > and > where to look next for more clues. > > My Worcs families are Pye, Crump, and Gowen/Gowan from the Bewdley region. > > Erin Flory > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mal Platt-Grigg > Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 1:23 PM > To: 'Gus Tysoe'; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool > > They are actually testing male Y-DNA, which remains virtually unchanged > through the male line. > I, for one, think this is fascinating technology albeit in it's infancy. > As > the database grows, it will become a valuable tool in genealogy. > I've had my DNA tested and added to the database and hope one day it will > help with my research. It may take 5,10 or 20 years but I can wait. > Just my 2 cents worth. > Malcolm. > > UK Transcriptions website: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~uktranscriptions/ > My personal website: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~plattgrigg/index.html > Researching GRIGG Halesowen, Dudley, Harborne, Birmingham. > PLATT Darlaston, Wednesbury, Birmingham. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:eng-worcester- >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Gus Tysoe >> Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 2:10 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool >> >> FWIW, as far as I can see all it actually determines (in exchange, of >> course, for Money) is that we all have Ancestors who could've come from >> anywhere.... >> >> Just what sort of DNA are they testing anyway? It looks to be > mitochondrial, >> which relates only to your direct female descent - something that's >> less-than-traditional in 'normal' Family History. >> >> Great if you've actually GOT your (warranted) 7G-gfthr's mummified corpse >> under your bed and can have it tested to get "real" Real Ancestral DNA to >> compare to yours. But who knows what 5G-gmthr might've got up to? >> >> Gus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

They are actually testing male Y-DNA, which remains virtually unchanged through the male line. I, for one, think this is fascinating technology albeit in it's infancy. As the database grows, it will become a valuable tool in genealogy. I've had my DNA tested and added to the database and hope one day it will help with my research. It may take 5,10 or 20 years but I can wait. Just my 2 cents worth. Malcolm. UK Transcriptions website: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~uktranscriptions/ My personal website: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~plattgrigg/index.html Researching GRIGG Halesowen, Dudley, Harborne, Birmingham. PLATT Darlaston, Wednesbury, Birmingham. > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:eng-worcester- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Gus Tysoe > Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 2:10 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WOR] Worcs Gene Pool > > FWIW, as far as I can see all it actually determines (in exchange, of > course, for Money) is that we all have Ancestors who could've come from > anywhere.... > > Just what sort of DNA are they testing anyway? It looks to be mitochondrial, > which relates only to your direct female descent - something that's > less-than-traditional in 'normal' Family History. > > Great if you've actually GOT your (warranted) 7G-gfthr's mummified corpse > under your bed and can have it tested to get "real" Real Ancestral DNA to > compare to yours. But who knows what 5G-gmthr might've got up to? > > Gus

Mal Platt-Grigg wrote: > They are actually testing male Y-DNA, which remains virtually unchanged > through the male line. That rules out my participation then. I've no brothers and my father's been dead 30 years. Not that I intended participating anyway. > I, for one, think this is fascinating technology albeit in it's infancy. As > the database grows, it will become a valuable tool in genealogy. I don't think it will be "a valuable tool in genealogy". It can't prove anything. At best it can suggest that a link *might* be possible and that it *might* be around a certain (vague) point in the past. It can't tell me the name of an ancestor or where s/he was born or when. It might be able to rule in, or out, another family of the same name but without a paper trail, without hard proof, DNA testing is worthless. Tracking back on the female line is an exercise in futility since it can't name names or places or give dates and the mother's name invariably changes generation on generation. As far as I'm concerned it's just an expensive gimmick, a new toy, a wishful thinking short cut to a family tree without all the hard work - and that's all. Good luck to those with money to waste. Personally, I'd rather spend the hundreds of pounds these tests cost on the volumes of the VCH I would like, or a fistful of certificates that would provide links, or the fares and overnight accommodation to a record office some distance from my home. DNA testing is not all it's cracked up to be. However, Rootsweb do have a DNA mailing list where this tedious subject can be discussed with like minded people.