Hi Thanks to all for the hints. Finding who my mother's father was is very difficult and complicated. I don't know if she was ever baptised as she has never had a baptismal certificate. She followed her mother and stepfather to Canada when she was 4 or 5. When my grandmother died, my mother was told that her stepfather was not her real father. She was 19. Her stepfather's family told her that her mother had been married before and was killed in the war. He was supposed to have been a mate of her stepfather and her stepfather made a vow to look after her mother so supposedly adopted my mother. It, of course was all lies. When my mother went to the states at about age 30, she applied for her birth certificate in England and found out for the first time that she was illegitimate. She was quite enraged.My mother married 3 times, but not to my father, because her stepfather was my father. As I said, very complicated. I have used about 4 genealogy programs over the years and none of them can calculate what relation I am to myself. In fact one of them even crashed my computer. The way I see it is, my mother's half sisters are my aunts from her mothers side my grandmother) but are also my sisters from her stepfathers side, (my father). Sooo that makes me my own aunt, yes. LOL A bit like that old Homer & Jethro song. Any way that is why I was hoping to connect to some of the descendants of the Henry Keel family in England to see if there was any old information floating around. Like an old family bible or something. Well enough of the soaps. Robin

I have a William RANDALL but not married to an Elizabeth. His wife was Mary PARSLOE d/o John and Rachel (EDWARDS)PARSLOE ch 20 Sep 1749 Bagendon Glouc. they in turn had a William b c1809 Gt Somerford Wilt.ma Jane (). On Mon Insc. for Gt Somerford theres a Jane Maria RANDALL d 12 Jun 1834 a3y9ms. Mary RANDALL received a bequest from her fathers estate.Nothing concrete but hope this provides a clue, happy hunting. kind regards daphne of Papatoetoe New Zealand daphne.guthrie@xtra.co.nz Researching areas: Medway, Kent;Wiltshire;Hampshire:Dorset; Sussex;Essex & Norfolk England. Fyfe Scotland. names LAYZELL, HARDY;TRUEMAN;GUY;WILTSHIRE; MEXTED;PARSLOE;WILLIAMS;WILMSHURST ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beverley Smith" <jobev56@tiscali.co.uk> To: <eng-wiltshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 3:45 AM Subject: [ENG-WILTSHIRE] marriage circa 1800 > Good afternoon > I have a brickwall and its this; a WILLIAM RANDALL& ELIZABETH his > wife(surname unknown) > we believe WILLIAM RANDALL is the son of HUMPHREY RANDALL & SARAH (surname > GODDARD) b 1772 of Hungerford > This William Randall married Elizabeth (surname unknown) where unknown .

Good morning Daphne Thankyou for your e mail, I keep all Randalls as one never knows, I have found that William Randall is a bit like John Smith to research. Thought I would mention I was born and grew up in New Zealand so know your area well. Once again thankyou regards Beverley Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "daphne.guthrie" <daphne.guthrie@xtra.co.nz> To: <eng-wiltshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-WILTSHIRE] marriage circa 1800 >I have a William RANDALL but not married to an Elizabeth. His wife was >Mary > PARSLOE d/o John and Rachel (EDWARDS)PARSLOE ch 20 Sep 1749 Bagendon > Glouc. > they in turn had a William b c1809 Gt Somerford Wilt.ma Jane (). On Mon > Insc. for Gt Somerford theres a Jane Maria RANDALL d 12 Jun 1834 a3y9ms. > Mary RANDALL received a bequest from her fathers estate.Nothing concrete > but > hope this provides a clue, happy hunting. > kind regards > daphne of Papatoetoe New Zealand > daphne.guthrie@xtra.co.nz > Researching areas: Medway, Kent;Wiltshire;Hampshire:Dorset; Sussex;Essex & > Norfolk England. Fyfe Scotland. names LAYZELL, > HARDY;TRUEMAN;GUY;WILTSHIRE; > MEXTED;PARSLOE;WILLIAMS;WILMSHURST > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beverley Smith" <jobev56@tiscali.co.uk> > To: <eng-wiltshire@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 3:45 AM > Subject: [ENG-WILTSHIRE] marriage circa 1800 > > >> Good afternoon >> I have a brickwall and its this; a WILLIAM RANDALL& ELIZABETH his >> wife(surname unknown) >> we believe WILLIAM RANDALL is the son of HUMPHREY RANDALL & SARAH >> (surname >> GODDARD) b 1772 of Hungerford >> This William Randall married Elizabeth (surname unknown) where unknown . > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WILTSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 31/08/2006 > >

An absorbing topic and one that has made me think about my own ggg/parents. My ggm married in 1840 but when I got the 1851 census it indicated that she had a child in 1838. As the subsequent censuses were available the first born was still there at a birth year of 1838. I eventually obtained his birth certificate which indicated that he was born in Queen Charlotte's Lying in Hospital. He had no '1st name'except 'Boy' but had his mother's surname ....... no father stated. I have never found his mother's birth details although all the censuses indicated 1811 in Wiltshire but the actual place was indistinct except for the 1871 where,with the help of subscribers to this list, it turned out to be Penknap. With this information it was possible at least to form an opinion as to her situation. It turns out that the family were strict Baptists and I suspect that perhaps her parents were not too happy with her predicament and/or she was disillusioned with life as a Baptist. The fact that I have never found her birth detail is,as I understand it, that Baptists do not baptise until the child is more mature even adult ........ perhaps she was never baptised ..... who knows?. I do know this though ......... all her children had an upbringing in the Church of England as did most of her grandchildren. I choose to think that her 1st born was by the man she married in 1840 and that circumstances like poverty and similar were the main reason for the delay in that marriage. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janette Smith" <janette5@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-wiltshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:00 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-WILTSHIRE] unknown father > Hi Robin, > > I've found that in such cases some of my family had middle names, > especially > in Scotland, which turned out to be the father's name. Also on any poor > law > or parish claims that might have been made for the child. > > Also, My ggmother had an older sister christened in the mother's name, but > who appears in the 1871 census under the fathers name. > > Good luck > > > > Janette (looking for Carpenters and Presleys,) > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WILTSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 8/09/2006 > >

Hi Robin, I've found that in such cases some of my family had middle names, especially in Scotland, which turned out to be the father's name. Also on any poor law or parish claims that might have been made for the child. Also, My ggmother had an older sister christened in the mother's name, but who appears in the 1871 census under the fathers name. Good luck Janette (looking for Carpenters and Presleys,)

Good afternoon I have a brickwall and its this; a WILLIAM RANDALL& ELIZABETH his wife(surname unknown) we believe WILLIAM RANDALL is the son of HUMPHREY RANDALL & SARAH (surname GODDARD) b 1772 of Hungerford This William Randall married Elizabeth (surname unknown) where unknown .Not at Tilehurst where a son William bapt 1801, a son John 1803, another son my ancestor at Kintbury Berkshire 1807. I would like to find William & Elizabeth marriage, this William was in service and appears to be a Butler. Any help or advice appreciated. I have been told Hungerford and sometimes Kintbury came under Wiltshire. Any help or advice appreciated. Thankyou Beverley Smith

Robin: While I know who my biological maternal grandfather was, I also am researching in depth the family of my step-grandfather, the only grandfather I knew. He was the very-kind gentle Scot who loved my grandmother and my mother deeply (and me, too), as opposed to my "real" grandfather who was, unfortunately as it turned out, a mean drunk who also was deceased before I was born. There may be no answer to your question, as others have pointed out. But the one who helped rear your mother counts for a lot in making her the person she became, as it did in my family! Best wishes, Sally

Another place where you may find her biological father named is on her marriage certificate. Even if he is not named as her father (and sometimes this did happen), he might turn up as a witness. Sometimes if the mother had kept in touch with the father he was included in the marriage ceremony in this way, which is a rather nice gesture. I have seen a couple of instances of this in cases where I already knew who the father was. This may at least give you a hint even if you are never able to prove it. Tony Woodward in Ottawa, Canada tony.woodward@one-name.org Wiltshire Census Indexes

Hi All, My mother was born out of wedlock in Manchester in 1915. Her birth certificate does not record anything but a line under "Father". My mother did not realise that her stepfather was not her real father until she was 19 and never asked who her real father was. My mother and all the people who might have known are now passed away. Her unknown father would have been my maternal grandfather and needless to say, leaves a big gap in my family tree. Was there any regulation or anyplace, like a hospital where this might have been recorded? Lots of speculation in the family of course, but the most popular guess is that her father was a soldier and killed in the war before they could be married. My Grandmother was the youngest of 9 "Keel" children all born in Bulford Wiltshire, and the only one that I know of to immigrate. All of her siblings have been found on the 1901 census. I have tried for years to find someone researching this family in the hopes that a family bible or some old documents have survived. I will post the names in case they ring a bell with anyone. Children of Henry KEEL and Emma DIMER 1. Walter Harry KEEL, b. 1867 marr. 1895 in Bulford to Beatrice "WITCHEL" Goodman. Widow 2. Lucy Harriet KEEL, b. 1870 marr. 1899 in Wilton, Wilt. to Charles Henry Walker SLADE 3. William Charles KEEL, b. 1873. (Might have marr???) 1904 in Bath Avon, Somerset to Florence Martha ROSE. 4. Edwin John KEEL, b. 1877. marr 1903 Amesbury Reg. Dist. to Alice Louisa RYLAND 5. Ernest KEEL, b. 1881. marr ??? 6. Emily Jane KEEL, b. 1883 marr. 1903 Amesbury Reg. Dist. to William Albert BRIERLEY 7.Louis KEEL, b. 1886. died 1911 Amesbury Reg. Dist. (Can't find any marriage) 8. Percy Frank KEEL, b. 1888, marr ??? 9. Lydia Kate KEEL. (My Grandmother) b. 14 Mar. 1891. marr 1917 in Brixton, London to William Joseph DRULLETTE (Canadian Serviceman) Immigrated to Canada abt. 1819. Died 2 Oct. 1935 in Canada. My mother Cecily Kathleen KEEL b. 1915 Manchester. was sent over to Canada about a year or so later. I know this is a very long post but if there is anyone who is descended from this family, any help would be appreciated. Robin

Is any member researching Aaron Newman Taylor & Charles George Taylor born Hilmarton and worked in Swindon GWR. Please contact janice.buttriss@bigpond.com

Rob wrote: > My mother was born out of wedlock in Manchester in 1915. Her birth > certificate does not record anything but a line under "Father". My mother > did not realise that her stepfather was not her real father until she was 19 > and never asked who her real father was. My mother and all the people who > might have known are now passed away. Her unknown father would have been my > maternal grandfather and needless to say, leaves a big gap in my family > tree. Was there any regulation or anyplace, like a hospital where this might > have been recorded? Lots of speculation in the family of course, but the > most popular guess is that her father was a soldier and killed in the war > before they could be married. Unless the mother applied for maintenance of the child, there's unlikely to be any record anywhere of the father. Not what you want to hear, I know, but as far as your mother was concerned her stepfather, the man who helped raise and guide her to be the lady she because was her dad. That fact makes him more important in many ways than her biological father who may not even have known he was about to become a family man. Unless the father went with the mother to register an out of wedlock child, he couldn't be named on the birth certificate. The one place there *might* be mention of him is in the baptismal register if your mother was baptised. The minister concerned may have added "reputed father" or something similar if (a) he asked and/or (b) the information was volunteered. You may have to reconcile yourself to never knowing who your biological maternal grandfather was.

The other place you might get a clue is in your mother's given names on her birth certificate. For example; I have an ancestor who was named Richard Henton MORGAN. His given names were the name of his father, Richard HENTON. Sometimes you just get lucky; sometimes. Bob -----Original Message----- From: eng-wiltshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-wiltshire-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Firebird Sent: September 10, 2006 8:58 AM To: eng-wiltshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-WILTSHIRE] Unknown Father Rob wrote: > My mother was born out of wedlock in Manchester in 1915. Her birth > certificate does not record anything but a line under "Father". My mother > did not realise that her stepfather was not her real father until she was 19 > and never asked who her real father was. My mother and all the people who > might have known are now passed away. Her unknown father would have been my > maternal grandfather and needless to say, leaves a big gap in my family > tree. Was there any regulation or anyplace, like a hospital where this might > have been recorded? Lots of speculation in the family of course, but the > most popular guess is that her father was a soldier and killed in the war > before they could be married. Unless the mother applied for maintenance of the child, there's unlikely to be any record anywhere of the father. Not what you want to hear, I know, but as far as your mother was concerned her stepfather, the man who helped raise and guide her to be the lady she because was her dad. That fact makes him more important in many ways than her biological father who may not even have known he was about to become a family man. Unless the father went with the mother to register an out of wedlock child, he couldn't be named on the birth certificate. The one place there *might* be mention of him is in the baptismal register if your mother was baptised. The minister concerned may have added "reputed father" or something similar if (a) he asked and/or (b) the information was volunteered. You may have to reconcile yourself to never knowing who your biological maternal grandfather was. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WILTSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Have you checked out the Knightroots website? It has transcriptions for many Hampshire parishes. Do a Google for Knightroots, and check online parish records in the left hand column of their website Rita ----- Original Message ----- From: <eng-wiltshire-request@rootsweb.com> To: <eng-wiltshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:54 AM Subject: ENG-WILTSHIRE Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Need help with parentage. (Rob) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:04:05 +0800 > From: "Rob" <drullette@iinet.net.au> > Subject: [ENG-WILTSHIRE] Need help with parentage. > To: <ENG-WILTSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <003b01c6d314$f9081160$0401010a@yourc6b5e4eabc> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, > I need help to find out who the parent or parents are of a Sidney James > KEEL. He was registered in the March quarter of 1882. Registration > district Droxford, Hampshire. > On the 1891 & 1901 census he is living with his aunt & uncle. One census > says he was born in West Meon and the other says West Marsh. I can't tie > him in to any of the brothers who carry the name so he might have been > born out of wedlock to one of the sisters. Is there any one that can find > who his parents are. > Thanks > Robin > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the ENG-WILTSHIRE list administrator, send an email to > ENG-WILTSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the ENG-WILTSHIRE mailing list, send an email to > ENG-WILTSHIRE@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WILTSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of ENG-WILTSHIRE Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9 > ******************************************* > >

Hi, I need help to find out who the parent or parents are of a Sidney James KEEL. He was registered in the March quarter of 1882. Registration district Droxford, Hampshire. On the 1891 & 1901 census he is living with his aunt & uncle. One census says he was born in West Meon and the other says West Marsh. I can't tie him in to any of the brothers who carry the name so he might have been born out of wedlock to one of the sisters. Is there any one that can find who his parents are. Thanks Robin

Hello Please switch my Wiltshire digest from plain text back to the Mime format. Best wishes, Susan D. Young gneagnie@vaxxine.com www.ancestrysolutions.com

Send for his Birth Certificate. http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ Jim http://www.payman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk Rob <drullette@iinet.net.au> wrote: Hi, I need help to find out who the parent or parents are of a Sidney James KEEL. He was registered in the March quarter of 1882. Registration district Droxford, Hampshire. On the 1891 & 1901 census he is living with his aunt & uncle. One census says he was born in West Meon and the other says West Marsh. I can't tie him in to any of the brothers who carry the name so he might have been born out of wedlock to one of the sisters. Is there any one that can find who his parents are. Thanks Robin ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WILTSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal

Hi List, Thank you to one and all , who has given me advice and information on getting a Parish record marriage entry, it is very much appreciated, Thank You Marlene. --------------------------------- The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

Hi everyone, Does anyone have a more complete BMD (Births, Marriages & Deaths) parish records of Downton? I have a very large collection from 1599 to 1812 for births & deaths, and from 1600 up to 1834 for marriages; but I have some gaps missing on names and of certain years for deaths that are missing. I'm searching for my 6th great grandfather Jacob Gwyer's parents. He was born about 1691 and died in 1757 in Downton. >From Nicole Descottes ---------------------------------------- Upgrade your account today for increased storage; mail forwarding or POP enabled e-mail with automatic virus scanning. Visit our member benefits page at https://members.canada.com/benefits.aspx for more information. *************************************************** Ma base-a-donne en francais: http://gw.geneanet.org/ndescottes "Familles FOUILLARD & LAROCQUE families" ************************************************** In ENGLISH: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com Specific database: "ndescottes" ############################################### CRAVEN COUNTRY JAMBOREE: www.cravencountryjamboree.com

Hi All, I need a little help in tracking down Elizabeth. Edward and Elizabeth were both born in the early to mid 1790's, he in Wroughton and she in Calne. Between 1813 and 1836 they had 13 children that I know of, all baptised in Wroughton. Unfortunately Sophia was born just a little too soon for civil registration or I'd have found Elizabeth's surname. I've looked for the marriage on the IGI, Family History Online, Pallot's, and Boyd's; all without success. I used to have access to the Nimrod indexes but I seem to have lost that somehow. Anyway, I would be most appreciative if some kind soul who has access to the marriage registers for the area could please take a look for me and let me know who Elizabeth is. Thanks & Regards, Bob