PENRITH HERALD AND EAST CUMBERLAND AND WESTMORLAND NEWS. No. 439. - Seventh Week in Quarter. Registered for Transmission Abroad. SATURDAY , FEBRUARY 14, 1874. PRICE 1D. EAST CUMBERLAND ELECTION 1874. The fight is o'er, the battle's won, Go tell it to each sire and son, The Royal Lion shakes his mane, East Cumbria is herself again. Again a Howard heads the poll, With strength sufficient for the whole, Each soldier sheaths his battle blade, For Howard's won the Blue eyed maid. It was a hard contested field, 'Twas said the Musgrave would not yield, But Howard beat their squadrons fair, And had three hundred men to spare. The field was fought, sir, inch by inch, But who e'er saw a Liberal flinch; The generals stood there undismayed, Till Howard won the Blue eyed maid. Who comes ? (they're asking) who comes now? With a broad pennant at the bow; Westmeria's fleet now leads the van, And Admiral Elliot is the man. Fetherstonhaugh all in his might, And Capt. James the Barrock knight, The great commander Crackanthorpe, And Salkeld too, all full of hope. And last came Lawson to the field, And called East Cumbria ne'er to yield; He found where Hodgson made a stand, And fought him in East Cumberland. West Cumberland sent to our aid, Her conquered chiefs still undismayed; Truth may be worsted, never dead, If ever falsehood rears its head. The fight began on Tuesday morn, And closed with the setting sun, The eastern fell turned out its men And carried every vale and glen. Cumwhitton marshalled on the plain, And Brampton fought with might and main, And Alston lads were stern and true, And steady backed the bonny Blue. And Corby's knight, and Lonsdale came, And marshalled up their dauntless men, And many more I cannot name, Fought in that fight now known to fame. But Naworth's Lady brave and true, Came forth a champion of the Blue; 'Twas then the Yellow ranks gave way, And owned a lady's powerful sway. The fight is o'er, the battle's won, Got tell it to each sire and son; The Royal Lion shakes his mane, East Cumbria is herself again. ~~~~T. J. DRYDEN.~~~~ Renwick, Feb. 12th, 1874.

PENRITH HERALD AND EAST CUMBERLAND AND WESTMORLAND NEWS. No. 439. - Seventh Week in Quarter. Registered for Transmission Abroad. SATURDAY , FEBRUARY 14, 1874. PRICE 1D. MARRIAGES. ATKINSON - PATTERSON. On the 12th inst. at St. Bride's Church, London, by the REV. G. LAWLESS, M.A., the REV. G. W. ATKINSON, M.A., Culgaith, Cumberland, to JANE, eldest daughter of the late MR. THOMAS PATTERSON, Westoe. DEATHS. BENSON - At Briggle House, Hunsonby, on the 4th inst., ROBERT BENSON, aged 53 years. HALL - At Duke Street, Penrith, on the 7th inst., WM. HALL, aged 14 days. MCDONALD - At Greenwich Hospital, on the 2nd inst., of ulcerated throat and fever, ALLEN MCDONALD, seaman, second son of ANTHONY MCDONALD, of Appleby, aged 23 years. ROUTLEDGE - At Graham Street, Penrith, on the 8th inst., REBECCA ROUTLEDGE, age 17 years. SANDERSON - At Birrell Hill, Skirwith, on the 6th inst., SARAH SANDERSON, aged 50 years. SISSON - At South-end-road, Penrith, on the 6th inst., ANN SISSON, aged 24 years. TAYLOR - At Culgaith, on the 7th inst., ELIZABETH TAYLOR, aged 17 years.

PENRITH HERALD AND EAST CUMBERLAND AND WESTMORLAND NEWS. No. 439. - Seventh Week in Quarter. Registered for Transmission Abroad. SATURDAY , FEBRUARY 14, 1874. PRICE 1D. GREAT MUSGRAVE. - A grand choral concert was given in the Reading-room, on Monday evening last, in aid of the library, when the MISSES FRYER (who are on a visit to Appleby from Durham), gave their valuable services, which were duly appreciated by a large and respectable audience. MR. ALDERSON gave his solos in his usual masterly manner, and the duetts he sung with MISS JENNIE FRYER pleased the audience immensely. MR. MORLAND supplied the comic element, and completely brought down the house, this being his first appearance in public, and he deserves the highest praise. Several encores were given and freely responded to by the performers. MISS POLLIE ALDERSON presided at the piano, and accompanied the different pieces with very good taste, and in an efficient style. MR. FRANKLAND, in a very appropriate speech, proposed three cheers for the performers, which were given with enthusiasm. Appended is the programme: Song and chorus..................Mill May......................COMPANY. Duett........I heard a voice in the tranquil night........MISSES FRYER. Song.............Nil Desperaudum...............................MR. ALDERSON. Song.....Come where roses blush and bloom.........MISS JENNIE FRYER. Comic song.....I couldn't help laughing, it tickled me so.......MR. MORLAND. Duett......Echo.................MISS JENNIE FRYER and MR. ALDERSON. Song...........................Excelsior.............................MISS FRYER. Duet......Hunting tower...MISS JENNIE FRYER and MR. ALDERSON. Song....................Bid the discourse.......................MISS JENNIE FRYER. Song....................The stirrup cup...........................MR. ALDERSON. Duett...........................After the rain.......................MISSES FRYER. Comic song.............Billy Johnson's ball.................MR. MORLAND. Song.............Give me the man of honest heart......MR. ALDERSON. Duett........................Keel Row................................MISSES FRYER. Comic song............The bold fisherman..................MR. MORLAND. Duett...When a little farm we keep.........................MISS J. FRYER. and MR. ALDERSON. Finale..................God save the Queen...........................COMPANY.

PENRITH HERALD AND EAST CUMBERLAND AND WESTMORLAND NEWS. No. 439. - Seventh Week in Quarter. Registered for Transmission Abroad. SATURDAY , FEBRUARY 14, 1874. PRICE 1D. RAVENSTONEDALE. - The annual missionary meeting in connection with the London Missionary Society, was held in the Independent Chapel, on Tuesday evening last. The deputation was the REV. J. LEES, a missionary recently returned from China, who gave some most interesting information on the characteristics of that country, and the manners and customs of its people. Their religion he showed to be very dark and imperfect, furnishing no bright or comforting hope beyond the grave. Some interesting cases of conversion was dwelt upon in detail, in which the faith of the converts was shown to be of an earnest and intelligent type. The speech was illustrated by the exhibition of several Chinese pictures, and the missionary sang one of our well-known hymns in the Chinese language. The congregation listened with great interest to the address throughout. The REV. W. TAYLOR, of Kendal, and the REV. J. CHARTER, of Brough, also addressed the meeting. The REV. W. NICHOLLS was in the chair. The contributions and collection, which included an extra donation, amounted to £20 1s. 10-1/2d. KIRKBYTHORE SCHOOL BOARD. - At the ordinary monthly meeting of this Board, held on Thursday evening, Feb. 5th, a resolution was unanimously passed to the effect that the school hitherto known by the name of the KIRKBYTHORE BRITISH SCHOOL, be taken under the management of the School Board, and conducted according to the provisions of the Education Act, with respect to Board Schools. The rival public Elementary schools at Kirkbythore are consequently both things of the past; and the enterprising managers of the survivor have the satisfaction of seeing their trust transferred to a body of men freely elected by the ratepayers, who are bound to conduct the school on the broad principles of religious equality, in furtherance of which they have so energetically laboured. MR. F. E. BROWN has been appointed to the mastership of the KIRKBYTHORE U.D. BOARD SCHOOL; and the owner of the British School-room has kindly consented to permit the Board to use the room during school hours, free of charge, until better accommodation is provided.

PENRITH HERALD AND EAST CUMBERLAND AND WESTMORLAND NEWS. No. 439. - Seventh Week in Quarter. Registered for Transmission Abroad. SATURDAY , FEBRUARY 14, 1874. PRICE 1D. SIR R. C. MUSGRAVE, Bart., of Eden Hall, left for the south yesterday morning. THE GENERAL ELECTIONS. - The declaration of the Polling for East Kent was made known on Thursday as follows: HON. G. W. MILLES, C, 5,424; MR. E. L. PEMBERTON, C, 5,405; SIR H. TURTON, L, 4,308. The former members re-elected. STOCK SALE AT CULGAITH. - The celebrated shorthorn stock of MR. JOHN RICHARDSON, of Culgaith, was brought to the hammer on Thursday, by MR. COPLEY. The cattle, numbering about 50 head, sold for about £1300, the cows realizing from £26 to £46 per head. The prize heifer, which recently competed in a private match with the celebrated "Errant Girl", reached the figure of 95 guineas, at which she was bought in, and her calf fetched 18 guineas. There was a large attendance of agriculturists from all parts, and the stock were much admired. MR. KIDD efficiently fulfilled the duties of sale clerk. WESTMORLAND ASSIZES. - The Commission of Assize and general gaol delivery will be opened at the Shire Hall, Appleby, this evening (Saturday). The business is, as usual, of very trifling importance, there being but two cases for trial, - a young girl from Ambleside, for child murder, and a navvy, charged with stealing a ham. SIR HENRY TUFTON, Bart., of Appleby Castle, is High Sheriff, and MR. EDWARD HEELIS, Under Sheriff. The business will commence on Monday morning, at the Shire Hall, when all jurors and witnesses are required to be in attendance. We have not heard of any civil causes.

Same here. I have been entertaining my DRAKE cousin from Cumbria, who is travelling around OZ for 6 weeks. They are off to Tasmania today. It was a very interesting sleuth Petra but being in OZ I have very little info to have joined in with it. You do a wonderful job in researching. Best Wishes, Leonie.

Sorry Petra - I was/am lurking: very busy with researches here in SW France, and no time to go sleuthing. It's a wonderful story and great that people got so involved from the Cumberland list Liz O ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb Baker" <bbaker48@sympatico.ca> To: <eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com>; "Genealogy-Cumberland" <Genealogy-Cumberland@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary Quiz - Update 1 >>>>>>>gone down like a lead balloon on the Googlies and Westmorland lists > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk<<<<<<<<< > > Not at all Petra; just personally involved in sleuthing my BAKER clan in > Sussex OR Kent OR Jamaica OR other West Indies OR EVEN in the U.S.A. !!, > and following up leads on my SIMPSONs in Morland, Westmorland with three > other Simpson-Searchers. > > Barb, Ontario, Canada. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WESTMORLAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Craig, Well, it just goes to show that we all depend on each other in our research - your note on Rootsweb helped Rob to find the right abode of the diary writer. Thank you for the obituary of Gibson Warwick. It is nice to put some more details to a mere name that appears in the diary! And while I am at it, many thanks to everybody who has made comments about the diary or its writer. It is nice to get responses and feedback! I am still wondering whether anyone related to the THOMPSON family will come forward? It looks as if neither Richard Bovil nor his siblings had any descendants, but he must have had cousins who procreated! Petra ----- Original Message ----- From: "craig simpson" <simpson_489@hotmail.com> To: <eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com>; <genealogy-cumberland@googlegroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary Update 2 - Rob isthe Cumbrian Master Sleuth of the Month! > > Hi Petra, > > I have been looking at your quiz with interest and read the diary the other day. I cannot lay claim to being a Master Sleuth but yeserday before going to work I noticed in the Diary reference to both Warwick & Gibson having something to do with what sounded like joinery repair work. I felt it could have been a reference to my ancestors who I knew worked on the Stobars Estate for many years but I did not know who lived at the house in 1889.............guess I should have had a stab at it. > > Congratulations Rob for doing such a good piece of investigation !!!!!!!!!!!! > > I was the researcher who posted the note about Gibson Warwick having worked at Stobars Hall, Gibsons father Thomas Warwick was my 3rd Great Grand Uncle. > > Just to confirm the family worked at Stobars Hall here is the obituary for Gibson Warwick 1876-1934 as reported in the Westmorland Gazette on Friday March 17th 1934. > > "Death of Mr. Gibson Warwick-Kirkby Stephen people received a shock on Tuesday on hearing of the sudden death that morning of Mr.Gibson Warwick, Market Street, a much respected inhabitant. The cause of death was heart failure. Mr. Warwick had been employed as joiner on the Stobars Hall estate all his working life-over 40 years. > > He was a regular attender at the Fletcher Hill Methodist Church, being a devoted member and faithful official. He was Senior Trustee of Kirkby Stephen branch of Rechabites. In sport he was a keen cricketer, and during his long association with the Club was one of the opening batsmen. He leaves a widow and married daughter. The funeral takes place at Kirkby Stephen today (Friday)." > > > > Gibson Warwick who died Tuesday 14th March 1934 at Kirkby Stephen. >

Hi Petra, I have been looking at your quiz with interest and read the diary the other day. I cannot lay claim to being a Master Sleuth but yeserday before going to work I noticed in the Diary reference to both Warwick & Gibson having something to do with what sounded like joinery repair work. I felt it could have been a reference to my ancestors who I knew worked on the Stobars Estate for many years but I did not know who lived at the house in 1889.............guess I should have had a stab at it. Congratulations Rob for doing such a good piece of investigation !!!!!!!!!!!! I was the researcher who posted the note about Gibson Warwick having worked at Stobars Hall, Gibsons father Thomas Warwick was my 3rd Great Grand Uncle. Just to confirm the family worked at Stobars Hall here is the obituary for Gibson Warwick 1876-1934 as reported in the Westmorland Gazette on Friday March 17th 1934. "Death of Mr. Gibson Warwick-Kirkby Stephen people received a shock on Tuesday on hearing of the sudden death that morning of Mr.Gibson Warwick, Market Street, a much respected inhabitant. The cause of death was heart failure. Mr. Warwick had been employed as joiner on the Stobars Hall estate all his working life-over 40 years. He was a regular attender at the Fletcher Hill Methodist Church, being a devoted member and faithful official. He was Senior Trustee of Kirkby Stephen branch of Rechabites. In sport he was a keen cricketer, and during his long association with the Club was one of the opening batsmen. He leaves a widow and married daughter. The funeral takes place at Kirkby Stephen today (Friday)." Gibson Warwick who died Tuesday 14th March 1934 at Kirkby Stephen. > From: Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk > To: ENG-WESTMORLAND@rootsweb.com; Genealogy-Cumberland@googlegroups.com > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:32:37 +0100 > Subject: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary Update 2 - Rob is the Cumbrian Master Sleuth of the Month! > > Rob sent this message to the Cumberland list: > > >>> Well, it's certainly got me hooked! > > I think I have found two more of his men - > James Furness, Stobars Lodge, Kirkby Stephen, 42, Gardner. > Thomas Warwick, & his son Gibson, Main Street, 52, Joiner. > > I found another note somewhere on Rootsweb from a fellow researcher, that Gibson Warwick had worked on the Stobars Estate all of his life - so I wonder if the author of your diary also lived there? > > In the 1891 census, the residents of Stobars Hall were: > Richard B Thompson, single, head, 29, living on own means. > Annie Thompson, mother, widow, 56. > Gerard E Thompson, brother, 27, living on own means, > and four domestic servants. > > The fact that Furness lives next door in the Lodge might also be a good pointer. > > There is also a Thompson family down the road in Greenriggs: > Joseph Thompson, 52, Yeoman Farmer > Ann Thompson, 59, wife > and a large adult family: > Isabella, 34 > John, 32, farmers son > Joseph, 30, farmers son > Agnes, 29 > Ann, 27 > Margaret, 21, student of teaching > Arthur, 20, student of Literae Humanities. > > Perhaps the authour is from this family? And the Aunt, he refers to (his benefactor) is Annie Thompson? <<< > > I responded: > > >>> Rob, you've got it! > > I only found him by chance because I came across James FURNESS living at Stobars Lodge. > > It is Richard Bovil THOMPSON, who I think is the writer of the diary. > > The aunts he refers to are very likely Maria and Agnes Elyetson THOMPSON, sisters of his father (they erected a memorial at Crosby Garrett Church to Richard's father Matthew), and Richard inherited the "Lordship or Manor of Crosby Garrett" for life from aunt Agnes when she died in 1909. The aunts lived in Main Street in Kirkby Stephen in 1881, although Maria appears to have died in 1885 so could not have been mentioned in the diary. > > Google "Richard Bovil Thompson" to see a document regarding the ownership of Crosby Garrett Common - last page of the document. > > I shall post my write-up on the family in a minute. > > Congratulations, Rob!!! You are the CUMBRIAN MASTER SLEUTH OF THE MONTH! >>> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WESTMORLAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Did you know you can get Messenger on your mobile? http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/

Thank you Petra for allowing us all to enjoy the most interesting diary. We have thought for some time that Rev. Joseph Pearson was the brother of Mary (Pearson) Adamthwaite.(b.1750) Her sons seem to have become Anglican Ministers in (a) East Stockwith and (b) Bowes because of the influence of their "uncle". We cannot,however, find a Pearson father who had both a Mary and a Joseph around the 1750's. Now we are wondering whether they really were siblings.Does anyone know details of this Pearson family? Mary married Thomas Adamthwaite in 1774 at Kirkby Stephen.

Thank you for that link, Terry - very interesting. I note there are other Misses THOMPSON living in Kirkby Stephen - could they qualify as the "Aunts" as well? They are not Richard's father's sisters, perhaps Matthew's cousins though. They were Catharine Anna THOMPSON (bap. 15 Feb 1822 in Kirkby Stephen) and Emma Elizabeth THOMPSON (bap. 23 Jun 1824 Kirkby Stephen), daughters of a Thomas & Catherine THOMPSON; the same couple also had a son Harrison bap. 24 May 1820 and in fact a whole quiver full of children starting in 1807; mother's name in the earlier baptisms was given as Catharine Wayne HARRISON. It seems Catherine Anna and Emma Elizabeth were the youngest in a long row of children. Catherine and Emma lived together as unmarried sisters, both Annuitants, in 1881 in Main Street, Kirkby Stephen. Catharine Anna THOMPSON died aged 61 (a slight understatement!) in March Quarter 1890 in East Ward District (which covers Kirkby Stephen). Emma is on her own in 1891. Harrison in 1881 was a 61-year-old Silk Merchant living with wife Anne (born LAN) at "Eden Lodge" in Greenwich and appeared to be very well off as well. There was a marriage (patron submission) on the IGI for 04 Sep 1805 in Kirkby Stephen: Thomas THOMPSON married Catherine Wayne HARRISON. This couple has a tombstone in Kirkby Stephen. Thomas was a surgeon and died 25 March 1851 in his 57th year (i.e. born around 1774), and Catherine Wayne died 01 Nov 1852 age 68 (i.e. born around 1784). Strangely the only deaths I could find for a Cat* THOMPSON in December Quarter 1852 were in Gateshead and Bridgwater, but she certainly does not appear to have lived in Westmorland. There was a possible one in London in 1841 or 51. However, this Thomas THOMPSON (b c.1774) was much older than Richard Bovil's father Matthew (b 1815), and the only possible baptism for Thomas on the IGI was a patron submission for Thomas son of Edward in 1773. Matthew's father was a Richard and Richard's father another Matthew (all according to patron submissions), so it does not look as if the Misses Catharine and Emma THOMPSON were in any way close relatives to our Richard Bovil THOMPSON (although there may well have been a relationship even further back). Ah well, another morning spent on a wild goose chase... Petra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Alderson" <rabbitcatcher@live.ca> To: <eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 6:01 AM Subject: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] FW: Richard Bovil Thompson > Hi Petra. > > Subject is listed as a 'gent' (gentleman) in Bulmers Historical Directory 1885 http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/c.asp?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=Test+Web+Site&Index=Historical%20Directories&UseQField=Decade&QField=Decade^1880s&Query=&File=E%3A%5CZYIMAGE%5CDATA%5CHISTDIR%5CTXT%5C00000000%5C0000ADFO.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=f%3Ah%2F&MaximumDocuments=10&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r80g5/r80g5/x150y150g5/i500&Display=hpfr&DefSeekPage=f&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&SeekPage=f&id=0000ADFO.txt > > as indicated on the URL.below. > > http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/pageviewer.asp?fn=0000adll.tif&dn=CAL16005tif&zoom=s > > If you are interested in this site, might I suggest you search by using the pdf method where one searches by 'image numbers' rather than by the page numbers as indicated in the index. > > http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/howto1.asp > > Regards Terry Alderson, Toronto

Hi Bev, Thanks for your input. Regarding your notes on the diary: It definitely said carriers aprons, not farrier. His hand writing was pretty bad, but this initial letter was very clear. The Scar in this case would have been Orton Scar as the hunt met at Orton on that day. I think there are scars all over the place! I agree with Barnard Castle - that was the only one I could think of which makes sense. Regarding your Thomas KNIPE dilemma - if you have already explored every avenue yourself, then there is probably little I can do to help just using the internet. There are one KNIPE will and one administration at Carlisle Record Office as well up to 1750 (I don't have a later index) which are in the general area you are looking: KNIPE, Jas., servant, Crosscanonby (Netherhall). 1746 AI [169r] KNIPE, Tho., yeo, Greystoke (Matterdale, Wallthwaite). 1732 WI 184 [104] Is it possible that Thomas was illegitimate and not baptised under the name KNIPE but under his mother's maiden name, and later used his father's surname KNIPE? Carlisle Record Office have indexed Recognizances for Cumberland Quarter Sessions for around that period which are basically summonses for fathers of illegitimate children to appear at the Quarter Sessions so that a bastardy bond could be issued compelling them to pay for the upkeep of their illegitimate offspring. There is an index for mothers' names and one for father's names. However, it looks as if you are not looking at the Carlisle area but rather at the Whitehaven area? May still be worth asking Whitehaven Record Office whether they have something equivalent and if so, to look up the surname KNIPE. Another approach (which you may already have tried) might be to research the families of the John and William who left the wills and try to link back to your Thomas from that family. Sorry, can't think of anything else! Petra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bev Kirby" <bev@inkmatehillcrest.co.za> To: <eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:16 AM Subject: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] Petra'a sleuthing! >I read through all the diary pages and am amazed that you could put all the pieces together- with input from some other very sharp people! Well done! All that I can contribute are the following- and knowing my luck at the moment, I am probably wrong! > Thursday 31 [31=334] bought 3 farrier aprons > Saturday 30 [89-276] tried the Scar [Knipes' Scar near Shap] > Saturday 8 [159-206] is Barnard Castle near enough? > Don't you want to take on my dilemma? Thomas Knipe born about 1780 married Frances Ritson in 1815 Plumbland and died Maryport 1842. When and where was he born? [He was a husbandman/farmer/yeoman] He is not the Thomas born in Uldale, Baildon etc and his father's name was probably John. He might have had a sister Eleanor. I have all the documentation of his, and his decendants- and have turned the Cumbrian Archives inside out- what am I missing? > The KNIPE name is found in both West and Lancs. but I do have wills of a John and William around 1715 St Bees and Whitehaven and a half-brother Thomas Knipe is mentioned. On the 1841 census Thomas was enumerated as having been born in Cumberland. Maybe I will have to accept that we will never know! [ Just as another piece of probably useless info we still have a very strong genetic streak running through- very tall, very fair skin, strawberry blond through to auburn, which is a useless combination if you live in South Africa!!!!] > Thanks for a very entertaining few days! > Bev Kirby

I read through all the diary pages and am amazed that you could put all the pieces together- with input from some other very sharp people! Well done! All that I can contribute are the following- and knowing my luck at the moment, I am probably wrong! Thursday 31 [31=334] bought 3 farrier aprons Saturday 30 [89-276] tried the Scar [Knipes' Scar near Shap] Saturday 8 [159-206] is Barnard Castle near enough? Don't you want to take on my dilemma? Thomas Knipe born about 1780 married Frances Ritson in 1815 Plumbland and died Maryport 1842. When and where was he born? [He was a husbandman/farmer/yeoman] He is not the Thomas born in Uldale, Baildon etc and his father's name was probably John. He might have had a sister Eleanor. I have all the documentation of his, and his decendants- and have turned the Cumbrian Archives inside out- what am I missing? The KNIPE name is found in both West and Lancs. but I do have wills of a John and William around 1715 St Bees and Whitehaven and a half-brother Thomas Knipe is mentioned. On the 1841 census Thomas was enumerated as having been born in Cumberland. Maybe I will have to accept that we will never know! [ Just as another piece of probably useless info we still have a very strong genetic streak running through- very tall, very fair skin, strawberry blond through to auburn, which is a useless combination if you live in South Africa!!!!] Thanks for a very entertaining few days! Bev Kirby

Hi Petra. Subject is listed as a 'gent' (gentleman) in Bulmers Historical Directory 1885 http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/c.asp?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=Test+Web+Site&Index=Historical%20Directories&UseQField=Decade&QField=Decade^1880s&Query=&File=E%3A%5CZYIMAGE%5CDATA%5CHISTDIR%5CTXT%5C00000000%5C0000ADFO.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=f%3Ah%2F&MaximumDocuments=10&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r80g5/r80g5/x150y150g5/i500&Display=hpfr&DefSeekPage=f&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&SeekPage=f&id=0000ADFO.txt as indicated on the URL.below. http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/pageviewer.asp?fn=0000adll.tif&dn=CAL16005tif&zoom=s If you are interested in this site, might I suggest you search by using the pdf method where one searches by 'image numbers' rather than by the page numbers as indicated in the index. http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/howto1.asp Regards Terry Alderson, Toronto Faster Hotmail access now on the new MSN homepage. Less clicking: Hotmail access on the new MSN homepage. Faster Hotmail access now on the new MSN homepage. _________________________________________________________________ New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403

Thank you, This made such interesting reading. Thank you for your time and trouble. Jane in Redcar -----Original Message----- From: eng-westmorland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-westmorland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Petra Mitchinson Sent: 14 October 2009 18:40 To: eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary Quiz - Update 1 Hi Barb, I'm glad to see that there is some sign of life on this list! Petra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb Baker" <bbaker48@sympatico.ca> To: <eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com>; "Genealogy-Cumberland" <Genealogy-Cumberland@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary Quiz - Update 1 >>>>>>>gone down like a lead balloon on the Googlies and Westmorland lists > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk<<<<<<<<< > > Not at all Petra; just personally involved in sleuthing my BAKER clan in > Sussex OR Kent OR Jamaica OR other West Indies OR EVEN in the U.S.A. !!, > and following up leads on my SIMPSONs in Morland, Westmorland with three > other Simpson-Searchers. > > Barb, Ontario, Canada. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WESTMORLAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 06:35:00

This has been really interesting and although I didn't come near to solving it I have looked through all the info and wondered who it could be. I even had a bright idea it could have been HRH Prince Edward but then decided it wasn't such a bright idea after all! Judy -----Original Message----- From: eng-westmorland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-westmorland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Petra Mitchinson Sent: 14 October 2009 15:51 To: Westmorland List; Cumberland Mailing List; CUL Google Group Subject: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary - Richard Bovil THOMPSON Hi folks, Now that Margaret and Rob have solved the mystery of the diary writer, here are the bits that I gathered. I have a few more details like individual census returns, but this is the gist of it: My research suggests that the writer of the diary was Richard Bovil THOMPSON of Stobars Hall, Kirkby Stephen. In 1889 he was a 27-year-old single man, living at Stobars with his mother Annie and younger brother Gerard Elyetson THOMPSON. Richard was the son of Matthew THOMPSON, a landowner (450 acres in 1851), Justice of the Peace and Deputy Lieutenant of the County of Westmorland. Matthew was born on 15 Jun 1815 in Kirkby Stephen, son of Richard THOMPSON and Mary née ELYETSON, who were married on 26 Oct 1812 at Ravenstonedale. Matthew THOMPSON married twice: Firstly, on 27 May 1845 at Ravenstonedale he married Mary DAWSON. With her he had three children: Mary bap. 27 Aug 1847 at Kirkby Stephen (she must be the "M." repeatedly mentioned in the diary), Sybil bap. 20 Oct 1848 and Richard bap. 30 Oct 1855, both of whom died at the age of a few days. The 1851 census showed Matthew THOMPSON, married and aged 35, in Kirkby Stephen (no address given) with daughter Mary aged 3 and three servants, but no sign of wife Mary. Matthew's wife Mary died on 19 Apr 1857. He married his second wife Anne HEWETSON (later always known as Annie), who had been bap. 02 Jan 1834 in Ravenstonedale. Their marriage produced three children: Richard Bovil (the writer of the diary) born December Quarter 1861, Gerard Elyetson ("G." in the diary) born March Quarter 1864, and Edith Annie ("E." or "Edie" in the diary) born March Quarter 1866. Matthew THOMPSON died on 09 May 1871 aged 55, but his widow Annie survived until March Quarter 1919, when she died aged 85. Richard and Gerard were at Stobars in every census between 1871 and 1901. It appears Richard never married. Gerard was still unmarried in 1901; there is a possible marriage to a Letitia E. IRVING in June Quarter 1918. However, in his will he left all his property to a HEWETSON cousin, so does not appear to have had any surviving dependants. I could not find Edith Annie in 1891, but she was still unmarried and living with her mother and brothers at Stobars in 1901. In 1889 Mary and Edith appeared to be living at Waterfoot in Dacre parish in Cumberland. I eventually found Mary on the 1891 census when she was staying with (her aunt) Agnes E. THOMPSON in a boarding house in Holdenhurst, Hampshire, and in 1901 aunt and niece were living together in Market Street, Kirkby Stephen, both single and living on their own means. In 1881 and 1891, a James FURNESS, a gardener, was living at the Lodge or Gardener's House at Stobars, and a labourer by the name of FURNESS is frequently mentioned in the diary. This man got me onto the right trail in the first place! The GANDYs lived at Skirsgill Park in Dacre parish. Henry and John (mentioned as Harry and Johnny GANDY in the diary) were aged 28 and 26 in 1889. The family was "living on their own means", and John and another brother were working as solicitors. Their father Henry Gandy, a retired Captain of the 83rd Regiment and Magistrate and Deputy Lieutenant of Westmorland, had died in June Quarter 1888 (his horse was being sold in Penrith the following February, according to the diary). The family had six servants including a butler and a coachman in the 1891 census. The CHAMLEYs lived in Warcop on their own means. "C. CHAMLEY" was their son Charles Braithwaite, aged 18 in 1889. The WYBERGHs also lived in Warcop; their son Hilton was born in 1866 - he died in August 1889. Francis WYBERGH, father of this family, was a farmer, but by 1881 had retired and in 1891 was also said to be living on his own means. F. CHATFIELD, mentioned in July 1889, lived on his own means in Long Marton in 1891 with a wife, 3 children and 3 servants. So the THOMPSONs had plenty of equally privileged associates. I hope everybody enjoyed this little exercise! Petra ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WESTMORLAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2428 - Release Date: 10/13/09 19:11:00

Hi Barb, I'm glad to see that there is some sign of life on this list! Petra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb Baker" <bbaker48@sympatico.ca> To: <eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com>; "Genealogy-Cumberland" <Genealogy-Cumberland@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary Quiz - Update 1 >>>>>>>gone down like a lead balloon on the Googlies and Westmorland lists > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk<<<<<<<<< > > Not at all Petra; just personally involved in sleuthing my BAKER clan in > Sussex OR Kent OR Jamaica OR other West Indies OR EVEN in the U.S.A. !!, > and following up leads on my SIMPSONs in Morland, Westmorland with three > other Simpson-Searchers. > > Barb, Ontario, Canada.

Hi, I too found it very interesting reading but one thing that really struck home to me was the vast difference between the 'haves' and the have nots'. Not that I am blaming Richard - clearly his background was such that the ruling classes never seem to have given much thought to those less fortunate, but concentrated on the more important things such as hunting dining etc. Ruth -----Original Message----- From: John Wells <wellsga@bellsouth.net> To: eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:18 Subject: Re: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary - Richard Bovil THOMPSON I echo the other comments. I rarely post since my primary interest is the Wells fa! mily of Westmorland. However, I read every post and I am quickly falling in love with the beautiful place called Cumbria and its wonderful and hardy people. I am very proud to be a descendant of those tough, independent people of the Northwest. John B. Wells III "Way Down South In Dixie" Newnan, Georgia wellsga@bellsouth.net --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Kathy Smith <foodssmith@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kathy Smith <foodssmith@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary - Richard Bovil THOMPSON To: eng-westmorland@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 3:59 PM Petra, Thanks for sharing that Diary. Even though I could not take the time to try ! and solve it, I did read all that you posted an d it was really great to read in his own shorthand some of what his life was like. It was also fun to hear the facts you presented at the end. Itenhanced the picture I had imagined from his words.  I really enjoyed it. As for the rest of the list I always read all the posts but never comment and I really should. I really appreciate all the articles that are transcribed and posted and I also find it interesting reading about others searches even if they are not mine. So Thanks to everyone who posts and like me just reads on the list. Kathy Smith ________________________________ From: Petra Mitchinson <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk! > To: Westmorland List <ENG-WESTMORLAND@rootsweb.com>; Cumberland Mailing List <CUMBERLAND@rootsweb.com>; CUL Google Group <Genealogy-Cumberland@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:50:42 AM Subject: [ENG-WESTMORLAND] 1889 Cumbrian Diary - Richard Bovil THOMPSON Hi folks, Now that Margaret and Rob have solved the mystery of the diary writer, here are the bits that I gathered. I have a few more details like individual census returns, but this is the gist of it: My research suggests that the writer of the diary was Richard Bovil THOMPSON of Stobars Hall, Kirkby Stephen. In 1889 he was a 27-year-old single man, living at Stobars with his mother Annie and younger brot! her Gerard Elyetson THOMPSON. Richa rd was the son of Matthew THOMPSON, a landowner (450 acres in 1851), Justice of the Peace and Deputy Lieutenant of the County of Westmorland. Matthew was born on 15 Jun 1815 in Kirkby Stephen, son of Richard THOMPSON and Mary née ELYETSON, who were married on 26 Oct 1812 at Ravenstonedale. Matthew THOMPSON married twice: Firstly, on 27 May 1845 at Ravenstonedale he married Mary DAWSON. With her he had three children: Mary bap. 27 Aug 1847 at Kirkby Stephen (she must be the "M." repeatedly mentioned in the diary), Sybil bap. 20 Oct 1848 and Richard bap. 30 Oct 1855, both of whom died at the age of a few days. The 1851 census showed Matthew THOMPSON, marri! ed and aged 35, in Kirkby Stephen (no address given) with daughter Mary aged 3 and three servants, but no sign of wife Mary. Matthew's wife Mary died on 19 Apr 1857. He married his second wife Anne HEWETSON (later always known as Annie), who had been bap. 02 Jan 1834 in Ravenstonedale. Their marriage produced three children: Richard Bovil (the writer of the diary) born December Quarter 1861, Gerard Elyetson ("G." in the diary) born March Quarter 1864, and Edith Annie ("E." or "Edie" in the diary) born March Quarter 1866. Matthew THOMPSON died on 09 May 1871 aged 55, but his widow Annie survived until March Quarter 1919, when she died aged 85. Richard a! nd Gerard were at Stobars in every census between 18 71 and 1901. It appears Richard never married. Gerard was still unmarried in 1901; there is a possible marriage to a Letitia E. IRVING in June Quarter 1918. However, in his will he left all his property to a HEWETSON cousin, so does not appear to have had any surviving dependants. I could not find Edith Annie in 1891, but she was still unmarried and living with her mother and brothers at Stobars in 1901. In 1889 Mary and Edith appeared to be living at Waterfoot in Dacre parish in Cumberland. I eventually found Mary on the 1891 census when she was staying with (her aunt) Agnes E. THOMPSON in a boarding house in Holdenhurst, Hampshire, and in 1901 aunt and nie! ce were living together in Market Street, Kirkby Stephen, both single and living on their own means. In 1881 and 1891, a James FURNESS, a gardener, was living at the Lodge or Gardener's House at Stobars, and a labourer by the name of FURNESS is frequently mentioned in the diary. This man got me onto the right trail in the first place! The GANDYs lived at Skirsgill Park in Dacre parish. Henry and John (mentioned as Harry and Johnny GANDY in the diary) were aged 28 and 26 in 1889. The family was "living on their own means", and John and another brother were working as solicitors. Their father Henry Gandy, a retired Captain of the 83rd Regim! ent and Magistrate and Deputy Lieutenant of Westmorla nd, had died in June Quarter 1888 (his horse was being sold in Penrith the following February, according to the diary). The family had six servants including a butler and a coachman in the 1891 census. The CHAMLEYs lived in Warcop on their own means. "C. CHAMLEY" was their son Charles Braithwaite, aged 18 in 1889. The WYBERGHs also lived in Warcop; their son Hilton was born in 1866 - he died in August 1889. Francis WYBERGH, father of this family, was a farmer, but by 1881 had retired and in 1891 was also said to be living on his own means. F. CHATFIELD, mentioned in July 1889, lived on his own means in Long Marton in 1891 with a wife, 3 childre! n and 3 servants. So the THOMPSONs had plenty of equally privileged associates. I hope everybody enjoyed this little exercise! Petra ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WESTMORLAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WESTMORLAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WEST! MORLAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi folks, Now that Margaret and Rob have solved the mystery of the diary writer, here are the bits that I gathered. I have a few more details like individual census returns, but this is the gist of it: My research suggests that the writer of the diary was Richard Bovil THOMPSON of Stobars Hall, Kirkby Stephen. In 1889 he was a 27-year-old single man, living at Stobars with his mother Annie and younger brother Gerard Elyetson THOMPSON. Richard was the son of Matthew THOMPSON, a landowner (450 acres in 1851), Justice of the Peace and Deputy Lieutenant of the County of Westmorland. Matthew was born on 15 Jun 1815 in Kirkby Stephen, son of Richard THOMPSON and Mary née ELYETSON, who were married on 26 Oct 1812 at Ravenstonedale. Matthew THOMPSON married twice: Firstly, on 27 May 1845 at Ravenstonedale he married Mary DAWSON. With her he had three children: Mary bap. 27 Aug 1847 at Kirkby Stephen (she must be the "M." repeatedly mentioned in the diary), Sybil bap. 20 Oct 1848 and Richard bap. 30 Oct 1855, both of whom died at the age of a few days. The 1851 census showed Matthew THOMPSON, married and aged 35, in Kirkby Stephen (no address given) with daughter Mary aged 3 and three servants, but no sign of wife Mary. Matthew's wife Mary died on 19 Apr 1857. He married his second wife Anne HEWETSON (later always known as Annie), who had been bap. 02 Jan 1834 in Ravenstonedale. Their marriage produced three children: Richard Bovil (the writer of the diary) born December Quarter 1861, Gerard Elyetson ("G." in the diary) born March Quarter 1864, and Edith Annie ("E." or "Edie" in the diary) born March Quarter 1866. Matthew THOMPSON died on 09 May 1871 aged 55, but his widow Annie survived until March Quarter 1919, when she died aged 85. Richard and Gerard were at Stobars in every census between 1871 and 1901. It appears Richard never married. Gerard was still unmarried in 1901; there is a possible marriage to a Letitia E. IRVING in June Quarter 1918. However, in his will he left all his property to a HEWETSON cousin, so does not appear to have had any surviving dependants. I could not find Edith Annie in 1891, but she was still unmarried and living with her mother and brothers at Stobars in 1901. In 1889 Mary and Edith appeared to be living at Waterfoot in Dacre parish in Cumberland. I eventually found Mary on the 1891 census when she was staying with (her aunt) Agnes E. THOMPSON in a boarding house in Holdenhurst, Hampshire, and in 1901 aunt and niece were living together in Market Street, Kirkby Stephen, both single and living on their own means. In 1881 and 1891, a James FURNESS, a gardener, was living at the Lodge or Gardener's House at Stobars, and a labourer by the name of FURNESS is frequently mentioned in the diary. This man got me onto the right trail in the first place! The GANDYs lived at Skirsgill Park in Dacre parish. Henry and John (mentioned as Harry and Johnny GANDY in the diary) were aged 28 and 26 in 1889. The family was "living on their own means", and John and another brother were working as solicitors. Their father Henry Gandy, a retired Captain of the 83rd Regiment and Magistrate and Deputy Lieutenant of Westmorland, had died in June Quarter 1888 (his horse was being sold in Penrith the following February, according to the diary). The family had six servants including a butler and a coachman in the 1891 census. The CHAMLEYs lived in Warcop on their own means. "C. CHAMLEY" was their son Charles Braithwaite, aged 18 in 1889. The WYBERGHs also lived in Warcop; their son Hilton was born in 1866 - he died in August 1889. Francis WYBERGH, father of this family, was a farmer, but by 1881 had retired and in 1891 was also said to be living on his own means. F. CHATFIELD, mentioned in July 1889, lived on his own means in Long Marton in 1891 with a wife, 3 children and 3 servants. So the THOMPSONs had plenty of equally privileged associates. I hope everybody enjoyed this little exercise! Petra

Sorry everybody, we have TWO Master Sleuths! Margaret Spencer got the right person as well, in fact she was quite sure it was Richard Bovil THOMPSON while Rob was still considering the other THOMPSON family. For some reason her message did not get through to me, I only realised her achievement when I received Rob's answer to Margaret through the Cumberland list. Congratulations to both of them! Petra Rob wrote: > Margaret, > On reflection, I think you are right - he does refer to a "G" on a couple of > occasions. > The "Dick" I was referring to was one of the Breeks, I think. > > Richard Bovil Thompson it is! > > I agree - it's been great fun! I wonder if there are many diaries like this > still in people's possession? > Thank's Petra, a wonderful find. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margaret Spencer" <osbertonlock@sky.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 2:56 PM > Subject: Re: [CUMB] 1889 Cumbrian Diary Quiz - Update 1 > > > Hello Petra, > > My thoughts on this is that it could possibly be Richard Bovil > Thompson of Stobars Hall. He mentions names such as Reid, Furness, > warwick. On 1891 census for Kirkby Stephen Reid is head gamekeeper. > Furness a gardner. Warwicke a joiner. He mentions these names with > reference to jobs being done. He mentions G came home today this could > be his younger brother Gerard perhaps back from a jaunt in London or > Edinburgh. The location Kirkby Stephen is central to all place names > mentioned. > > The unsure bit was > "Took a walk over Riddlesay & Thompsons" but now I have seen Robs > latest message about Thompsons that live nearby I'll stick to my > original choice of Richard Bovil THOMPSON. > > I've enoyed this bit of detective work even if I've got it wrong. > > Margaret