G'day Listers, I send my deepest heartfelt "THANK YOU" to Barb Stacey, John S Sermon and Jon Newman. You have been so kind in your assistance with my question regarding the Surman families from Warwickshire. With your aid I now have a much bigger picture in regards to Thomas Sermon. His daughter Mary married my g g g grandfather. Mary was a widow when she married Septimus Newcombe in 1858 (he too was a widower). There were no children from this marriage but it is still nice to be able to fill in her family line. Her name when she married Septimus was Mary Cottrell, she was aged 40. I have no idea who her first husband was or if infact they had children. Septimus has been a funny and interesting man to research. He married 3 times and had only 1 child, that I know of. His third wife he married in April 1881. Her name was Elizabeth Sheffield and she was listed as 25 on their marriage certificate he was a 60 year old widower. In the 1881 census she is residing with him and she is listed as his niece aged 15 years. On searching Elizabeth's family line she was in fact aged 15 in 1881, interesting that he married such a much younger wife third time around and that they lied about her age. To date I have found no proof that she was his niece. Also in searching Septimus's history there is no proof to date of where or when his first wife died, Hannah Newcombe nee Pacey. Also I have yet to find what happened to his third wife. Both these women seem to have just disappeared off the face of the earth. Genealogy is much like a jigsaw puzzle, trying to find which piece fits in where and when you find the piece that fits nicely it is oh so exciting, but the rest of the time is frustrating. Best wishes to you all, and again many thanks for your help and assistance. Melissa in Australia.