Hi Pauline I do not question its location but with respect, the Blue Coat School is not enumerated as 'uninhabited' It is noted in its correct location but all other details are blank including the Uninhabited column, which is how many institutions are shown on the census, the census page is RG11 2979 4 2 As I said previously the institutions are always enumerated on separate schedules and come at the end of the section. Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) >I have only half read some of these posting recently, and might have got >the > wrong end of the stick completely, but I can confirm after viewing the > 1881 > census on disk, the Birmingham Boarding School was not the Bluecoat School > (which was opposite St Philip's Church, at right angles to Colmore Row), > and > the Bluecoat School is actually on the census as 'uninhabited'. Next > door > to that is 'Gt Western Arcade'.

Nirvard I am sorry to disagree, but I have again checked, and the Blue Coat Schools - (yes, plural), on the LDS disk is as Uninhabited, as is St Philips Church. You are perhaps using some other transcription? If the Bluecoat school was uninhabited, and the census was meant to list who was there on the night of the census, it surely proves that it was not a boarding, but a day school? What you say about how they are listed may be true in some instances, however, I worked in the building next to where the Bluecoat School was, for over thirteen years, and as a Birmingham born 'girl' know the area like the back of my hand. I used the census, an Alan Godfrey Map of 1902/1911 and my own knowledge. I know Colmore Row and the buildings and area extremely well. Severn Street is fairly near to the end of Colmore Row, so I am sure that I am pretty much right in my deduction, although no school is marked on the Alan Godfrey Map except the Bluecoat School. In this instance, at least as far as the LDS 1881 disks are concerned, the census is exactly as the buildings were, and as they have only been replaced, one could almost say exactly as it stands today, so the schools and institutions are not listed together. Regards Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@btconnect.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Birmingham Boarding School > Hi Pauline > > I do not question its location but with respect, the Blue Coat School is not > enumerated as 'uninhabited' > > It is noted in its correct location but all other details are blank > including the Uninhabited column, which is how many institutions are shown > on the census, the census page is RG11 2979 4 2 > > As I said previously the institutions are always enumerated on separate > schedules and come at the end of the section. > > Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > > > >I have only half read some of these posting recently, and might have got > >the > > wrong end of the stick completely, but I can confirm after viewing the > > 1881 > > census on disk, the Birmingham Boarding School was not the Bluecoat School > > (which was opposite St Philip's Church, at right angles to Colmore Row), > > and > > the Bluecoat School is actually on the census as 'uninhabited'. Next > > door > > to that is 'Gt Western Arcade'. > > >

Hi again Pauline Well I now see where you are finding "Uninhabited", I am using the original enumerators books rather than a transcription such as the LDS CDs (which I also have) On the Cd it appears like this Building: Blue Coat Schools UNINHABITED Census Place: Birmingham, Warwick, England Source: FHL Film 1341713 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2979 Folio 4 Page 2 (which is the page where it would be enumerated if it were not an institution) I can assure you that on the original page the space for Uninhabited is blank. If you would like a copy of the page I can mail one so you can see for yourself. The word uninhabited has been entered in the transcription whereas it does not figure on the page. Now to bring it back to the original enquirers posting (who is noticeable by his absence <g>) >I have a person who may be one of my rellies in the 1881 census , the >street address was listed just as birmingham boarding school, the rellie >was listed as a boarder aged 13. >Where was this school and what was it , a correctional or fee paying >school. (we could do with the persons name to make sure its the same place we are talking about) The entry with that street address is listed as "unknown institution" has 145 persons enumerated and is listed as follows RG11 2979 1 1 Civil parish: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Birmingham Boarding School Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Thomas ED, institution, or vessel: Unknown Institution It is 6 pages long and is on an Institution schedule (which are different to the household schedule and appear at the end of an enumeration section). In the schedule above, the secretary, head teacher, matron and a schoolmistress are as follows 1881 RG11 2979 1 1 Henry Price 58 Secretary and steward George Simmonds DUNN (BA) 44 Eliza Emma ARNOLD Matron 36 Bessie GREEN schoolmistress 36 St Thomas District Unknown Institution ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Going to 1891 for George Simmonds DUNN we find 1891 RG12 2379 122 1 William Edward BOLTON Secretary George Simmonds DUNN 54 Schoolmaster Lizzie Emma ARNOLD 48 Matron Bessie GREEN 47 schoolmistress Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Thomas ED, institution, or vessel: The Blue Coat School Birmingham ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And going back to 1871 we find 1871 RG10 3112 90 1 Henry PRICE 48 Secretary and Steward George Simmonds DUNN 34 Master Bessie GREEN school mistress 26 St Philip District Blue Coat Charity School ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ With each section in the census there is a header page which describes the scope of the area it covers, usually it would list the streets/roads etc, in the case of Institutions (which were the likes of Workhouses, Hospitals, Barracks, Asylums and Schools) the header page gave the name of the Institution. It is this page that is missing in 1881. However your local knowledge may shed more light on the following In 1871 it states Blue Coat Charity School, Monmouth Street City or Municipal Borough of Birmingham Municipal Ward of St Peter Ecclesiastical Ward of St Phillip In 1881 no header page but under Birmingham St Thomas In 1891 Registration District : Birmingham Registration Sub-District : St Thomas Name : The Blue Coat School Birmingham Description : a Charity School for Boys and Girls Where Situated : St Phillips Churchyard Colmore Row Civil Parish of : B'ham Municipal Borough of : B'ham Municipal Ward of : Market Hall Urban Sanitary District of : B'ham Town : City of Birmingham Parliamentary Borough or Division of : Central Ecclesiastical Parish or District of : St Phillip It seems that the School moved between 1871 and 1881 although the staff remained largely the same but you may have better knowledge of that? The wording Charity School is a little misleading, there were quite a few Blue Coat Schools around the Country and were mostly run by donations from local people/businesses, the first 40 to 50 pupils were taught for free the remainder paid a penny a week or whatever the rate was at the time. If you try http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ Enter 406979,287096 and select co-ordinates it will take you to the area on an O/S map of around 1893, zoom in and you will see the Blue Coat School in the area by St Phillips Church next to or on Colmore Row As I have said previously I do not dispute its location or your local knowledge but the evidence above shows it was most likely the Blue Coat School in 1881. If you would like a copy of any of the pages let me know Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK)