So far I have found the following. 1881 census 29 1/2 Whittal Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire William M. PENNER Head M Male 40 Lyon, France Rifle Tester (Gun) Caroline PENNER Wife M Female 34 ... Island (BS) (Corfu, Ionian Islands, Greece) William PENNER Son U Male 22 Birmm, Warwick, England Metal Polisher Albert F. PENNER Son U Male 19 Birmm, Warwick, England Gun Action Filer Frank H. PENNER Son Male 2 Birmm, Warwick, England Ann L. PENNER Daur Female 4 m Birmm, Warwick, England Kate ROBERTS Daur M Female 25 Birmm, Warwick, England Silver Chain Maker John ROBERTS G Son Male 7 Birmm, Warwick, England Scholar 1871 census St. Peter, District 9, Birmingham Wm Penner, widower, 32, gun finisher, born Paris Elizabeth, widow, 60, washwoman, born Birmingham, mother-in-law Kate, dau., 14 Wm, son, 12 Eva, dau. 10 Albert, son 7 Francis, son 26?, idiot from Birmingham oct-nov-dec 1877 Caroline Tolley x William Pinner 1891 District 50, St. George, Birmingham William Pinner, 50, gun finisher , born Lyons, France Caroline, wife, 44, born Corfu Henry, 12 Annie, 10 Holland, 8 Wilfrid, 6 Sylvia, 2 months In 1891 Kate Pinner is no longer listed with her father. He must have been married twice, once to Kate's mother and secondly to Caroline. I have a Kate Pinner who marries John Roberts in the September quarter 1873 in Birmingham. They apparently have a son John born in December 1873. John senior must have died sometime between 1873 and 1881 because Kate is listed as widow in 1881. Does anyone know anything about this family? Did Kate remarry? What happened to son John? Thanks in advance. Tony