Hi List, This may seem like a general query but it's firmly based in Birmingham My gg grandmother's married name was Elizabeth Burns. On each of her children's birth certificates she is named as Elizabeth Burns, formerly Thomas. I've got hold of her marriage certificate (23/6/1845) and she is named, again, as Elizabeth Thomas, spinster, but her father is identified as Samuel Bayliss. The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? She was married at St Martin's - would the parish records give more information? I suspect that she was out in service on the 1841 census and so there are no clues to be found. Any help would be welcome. Andrew

>>The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and >>which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a >>convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? >>Any help would be welcome.<<Andrew Hi Andrew, Giving her the benefit of the doubt, her first husband could have been a Mr. Thomas, since it say 'formerly' rather than 'nee.' Okay it says 'spinster' on her marriage certificate rather than 'widow' or 'relict' but back then spinster was an 'unmarried woman of gentle family' in my Websters. It would clarify her position, especially if Papa Bayliss was a gentleman. Regards, Sarah Reveley in sunny mild Texas seeking Croughtons in Birmingham Reveleys in Cumberland UK and America http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/rvly

Hi Andrew, One possibility is that she was an illegitimate child of a mother named Thomas, she (the mother) married a Samuel Bayliss, who brought up the child. I've come across a surprising number of illegitimate children in my line, who retain their mother's maiden name whilst living in her marital household. Pete Hulme -----Original Message----- The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? subject and the body of the message

Hi Andrew If my reading of your situation is correct, your Elizabeth THOMAS is the daughter of a miss THOMAS and her father was Samuel BAYLISS they either did not marry or married after the birth although more likely the former. The Parish Register should show the same information but always worth checking Have you tried for a Baptism for Elizabeth? Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists > My gg grandmother's married name was Elizabeth Burns. On each of her > children's birth certificates she is named as Elizabeth Burns, formerly > Thomas. I've got hold of her marriage certificate (23/6/1845) and she is > named, again, as Elizabeth Thomas, spinster, but her father is identified > as Samuel Bayliss. > > The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and > which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a > convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? > > She was married at St Martin's - would the parish records give more > information? > > I suspect that she was out in service on the 1841 census and so there are > no clues to be found. > > Any help would be welcome. > > Andrew

Many thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I've checked births via LDS and there's one contender. An Elizabeth Thomas was christened at St Martins at the right sort of date (2/12/1823), to John and Ann Thomas. The problem is that St Martin's was a large parish and Thomas was a pretty common surname. I guess it's one of those situation where we'll never know for sure. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@btconnect.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com>; <andfos69@hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Stepfather query > Hi Andrew > > If my reading of your situation is correct, your Elizabeth THOMAS is the > daughter of a miss THOMAS and her father was Samuel BAYLISS they either > did not marry or married after the birth although more likely the former. > > The Parish Register should show the same information but always worth > checking > > Have you tried for a Baptism for Elizabeth? > > Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists > > >> My gg grandmother's married name was Elizabeth Burns. On each of her >> children's birth certificates she is named as Elizabeth Burns, formerly >> Thomas. I've got hold of her marriage certificate (23/6/1845) and she is >> named, again, as Elizabeth Thomas, spinster, but her father is identified >> as Samuel Bayliss. >> >> The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and >> which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a >> convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? >> >> She was married at St Martin's - would the parish records give more >> information? >> >> I suspect that she was out in service on the 1841 census and so there are >> no clues to be found. >> >> Any help would be welcome. >> >> Andrew > >

Hi Andrew, I found this on FreeBMD: Marriages Jun 1845 Vol Page Bayliss Elizabeth Birmingham 16 339 Burns Edwin Gardner Birmingham 16 339 Thomas Elizabeth Birmingham 16 339 If I were you I would also get Elizabeth Bayliss's marriage cert', if you haven't already. Chris P. NZ :-)

Many thanks. This is a real breakthrough. I just checked on IGI and an Elizabeth Bayliss was married in the same church on exactly the same day in 1845. It looks like a clerical error on the day but I'll have a look at the other marriage certificate to check. Thanks again. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Pounder" <cpounder@ihug.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Stepfather query > Hi Andrew, I found this on FreeBMD: > > Marriages Jun 1845 Vol Page > Bayliss Elizabeth Birmingham 16 339 > Burns Edwin Gardner Birmingham 16 339 > Thomas Elizabeth Birmingham 16 339 > > If I were you I would also get Elizabeth Bayliss's marriage cert', if you > haven't already. > > Chris P. NZ :-) > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >