Thanks for all the help on Frances Barnes. I believe this to be the correct Francis Barnes, father of Eliza Barnes the first wife of William Penner. In 1871 (St. Peter, District 9, Birmingham), Elizabeth a widow, 60 years of age is listed as mother-in-law, living with Wm Penner. Also listed is a Francis, age 26, idiot from Birmingham. In the 1861 census of St. Peter, Birmingham Francis J. Barnes, married with an Elizabeth, has a son Francis J., age 16, and listed as being deaf and dumb from birth. I have found on the IGI a marriage for a Francis Barnes and an Elizabeth Huball (Hubball) on 18 October 1830 in Aston-juxta-Birmingham. This Elizabeth must have been born about 1811 or 1812 in Birmingham, possibly daughter of Joseph and Mary Hubball. I would be glad to hear from anyone having information on these families. Thanks. Tony