Think this might well be them in 1841! As you know, ages were rounded down to nearest 5, and no relationships given But neither Thomas senior nor Bithea ( Bethina? ) were born in Warwickshire, which fits with 1851nor Ann Bucklew - who could be Bethina's mother? Name Estimated birth year Birthplace Civil parish County/Island Ann Bucklew abt 1775 Birmingham Warwickshire Ann Penna abt 1837 Warwickshire, England Birmingham Warwickshire Bithea Penna abt 1806 Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Penna abt 1811 Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Penna abt 1831 Warwickshire, England Birmingham Warwickshire William Penna abt 1836 Warwickshire, England Birmingham Warwickshire Civil parish: Birmingham Hundred: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Lichfield Street Occupation: Tailor. Source information: HO107/1143/2 Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Folio: 14 Page: 21 Line number: 21 Happy New Year Anne On 29 Dec 2006, at 18:34, Anthony Hofstee wrote: > the family of William Pinner was found in > the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, > 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 > census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is > supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in > the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about > 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the > help. This group has been wonderful. Tony