Hi - it has been a while since I last posted to this list, and I am still banging my head on a large brick wall! My husbands great-grandfather was Herbert ADAMS, bc 1850/51 in Aston Magna, then located in Gloucestershire. He was the son of James ADAMS of Stretton-on Fosse, which I believe was then in Worcestershire. My problem is that after a few years of trying, I still have not found Herbert's birth registration, and so am unable to find out who his mother was. I have his marriage certificate to Annie Teear in 1880 and his death certificate from 1901. On the 1861 census, RG 9/2152/80/13 - 62 Church St, Birmingham, St. Martin, he is recorded as 9 years old - 5 years older than his sister Elizabeth. I also have the marriage certificate for his father, James Adams (Police Officer on that cert.) and Mary Ann GROMORE - Father of Mary Ann is Nathan GROMORE, Pawnbroker, and father of James, is James. Mary Ann's address at the time of marriage was given as Vyse Street, which according to today's maps is close to the Jewelry Quarter. However, the marriage was in Dec of 1855, St. John's, Birmingham, a few years after Herbert was born. Another confusing point is that on the birth certificate of Herbert's younger brother James William ADAMS, who was born in 1859, the mother's name is spelled as Mary Ann GROUMAN, but I just cannot seem to locate anyone by either of those names - GROMORE or GROUMAN. Another puzzle; on the 1861 census, Mary Ann's birthplace was recorded as Chippenham, Wiltshire, and her age as 28. On the 1871 census, (James was now a Cab Proprietor) Mary was recorded as 36 and with a birth place of Eaton-upon-Tern, Salop. So can I assume that there were two Mary's? Was James previously married, even though his status at the time of his marriage to Mary Ann was listed as "Bachelor", or was Herbert born out of wedlock? James had another wife at the time of the 1881 census - he married Esther Pumphrey, widow, in 1876. I have ordered a number of certificates over the last while, but have still remained unsuccessful in my search. I would be so very grateful for any suggestions on what I might try next! Very many thanks for 'listening' to my long and confusing story! Patricia Ontario, Canada _________________________________________________________________ Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805

G'day again Patricia, Have had a little look around. There are lots of Gromans, a few Graumans but, as you say, only one Gromore, to be found. There is a Gordon on the Genes Reunited site to whom I've sent a message. I'll contact you if he replies. His tree contains MaryAnn Gromore, born 1831 in Eaton Upon Tern, Tewkesbury. Cheers!!! Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Adams" <granduba@msn.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: [B'ham] ADAMS, Herbert c1850 > Hi - it has been a while since I last posted to this list, and I am still > banging my head on a large brick wall! > > My husbands great-grandfather was Herbert ADAMS, bc 1850/51 in Aston > Magna, > then located in Gloucestershire. He was the son of James ADAMS of > Stretton-on Fosse, which I believe was then in Worcestershire. > > My problem is that after a few years of trying, I still have not found > Herbert's birth registration, and so am unable to find out who his mother > was. I have his marriage certificate to Annie Teear in 1880 and his death > certificate from 1901. On the 1861 census, RG 9/2152/80/13 - 62 Church > St, > Birmingham, St. Martin, he is recorded as 9 years old - 5 years older than > his sister Elizabeth. I also have the marriage certificate for his > father, > James Adams (Police Officer on that cert.) and Mary Ann GROMORE - Father > of > Mary Ann is Nathan GROMORE, Pawnbroker, and father of James, is James. > Mary Ann's address at the time of marriage was given as Vyse Street, > which > according to today's maps is close to the Jewelry Quarter. However, the > marriage was in Dec of 1855, St. John's, Birmingham, a few years after > Herbert was born. > > Another confusing point is that on the birth certificate of Herbert's > younger brother James William ADAMS, who was born in 1859, the mother's > name > is spelled as Mary Ann GROUMAN, but I just cannot seem to locate anyone by > either of those names - GROMORE or GROUMAN. > > Another puzzle; on the 1861 census, Mary Ann's birthplace was recorded as > Chippenham, Wiltshire, and her age as 28. On the 1871 census, (James was > now a Cab Proprietor) Mary was recorded as 36 and with a birth place of > Eaton-upon-Tern, Salop. So can I assume that there were two Mary's? Was > James previously married, even though his status at the time of his > marriage > to Mary Ann was listed as "Bachelor", or was Herbert born out of wedlock? > James had another wife at the time of the 1881 census - he married Esther > Pumphrey, widow, in 1876. > > I have ordered a number of certificates over the last while, but have > still > remained unsuccessful in my search. I would be so very grateful for any > suggestions on what I might try next! > > Very many thanks for 'listening' to my long and confusing story! > > Patricia > Ontario, Canada > > _________________________________________________________________ > Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping > http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805 > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Patricia, MaryAnn Gromore is the gt gt gran of Gordon Butlin, born 1940 in Hackney. He has very little information about her, he says. I could give him your email address if you'd like. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Adams" <granduba@msn.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: [B'ham] ADAMS, Herbert c1850 > Hi - it has been a while since I last posted to this list, and I am still > banging my head on a large brick wall! > > My husbands great-grandfather was Herbert ADAMS, bc 1850/51 in Aston > Magna, > then located in Gloucestershire. He was the son of James ADAMS of > Stretton-on Fosse, which I believe was then in Worcestershire. > > My problem is that after a few years of trying, I still have not found > Herbert's birth registration, and so am unable to find out who his mother > was. I have his marriage certificate to Annie Teear in 1880 and his death > certificate from 1901. On the 1861 census, RG 9/2152/80/13 - 62 Church > St, > Birmingham, St. Martin, he is recorded as 9 years old - 5 years older than > his sister Elizabeth. I also have the marriage certificate for his > father, > James Adams (Police Officer on that cert.) and Mary Ann GROMORE - Father > of > Mary Ann is Nathan GROMORE, Pawnbroker, and father of James, is James. > Mary Ann's address at the time of marriage was given as Vyse Street, > which > according to today's maps is close to the Jewelry Quarter. However, the > marriage was in Dec of 1855, St. John's, Birmingham, a few years after > Herbert was born. > > Another confusing point is that on the birth certificate of Herbert's > younger brother James William ADAMS, who was born in 1859, the mother's > name > is spelled as Mary Ann GROUMAN, but I just cannot seem to locate anyone by > either of those names - GROMORE or GROUMAN. > > Another puzzle; on the 1861 census, Mary Ann's birthplace was recorded as > Chippenham, Wiltshire, and her age as 28. On the 1871 census, (James was > now a Cab Proprietor) Mary was recorded as 36 and with a birth place of > Eaton-upon-Tern, Salop. So can I assume that there were two Mary's? Was > James previously married, even though his status at the time of his > marriage > to Mary Ann was listed as "Bachelor", or was Herbert born out of wedlock? > James had another wife at the time of the 1881 census - he married Esther > Pumphrey, widow, in 1876. > > I have ordered a number of certificates over the last while, but have > still > remained unsuccessful in my search. I would be so very grateful for any > suggestions on what I might try next! > > Very many thanks for 'listening' to my long and confusing story! > > Patricia > Ontario, Canada > > _________________________________________________________________ > Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping > http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805 > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >