Hi I was trying to help Joe too. It's nice to know no one else can find him either, I feel so much better now :) This is what I did find; 1861 Census Cottage Street, Birmingham Warwickshire Robert Howarth abt 1815 Bury, Lancashire, England Head, Stonemason Betty Howarth abt 1811 Bradford, Yorkshire, England Wife *Sarah Ann Howarth abt 1842 Birmingham Daughter Robert Howarth abt 1844 Birmingham Son John Howarth abt 1846 Birmingham Son *Daniel Howarth abt 1847 Birmingham Son Mary Howarth abt 1850 Wolverhampton Marriages Dec 1868 Elkington George Birmingham 6d 160 HOWARD Sarah Ann Birmingham 6d 160 1871 Census 2 Hall Street, Birmingham Warwickshire George Elkington abt 1844 Yardley, Worcestershire, England Head *Sarah Ann Elkington abt 1842 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Wife Robert Timothy Elkington abt 1869 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Mary Grace Elkington abt 1871 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter Betty Howorth abt 1811 Halifax, Yorkshire, England Grandmother, Grandma John Howorth abt 1846 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Brother-in-law Robert Howorth abt 1844 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Brother-in-law 1871 Census Birmingham Warwickshire *Daniel Howorth abt 1847 Bham, Warwickshire, England Head Amelia Howorth abt 1848 Bham, Warwickshire, England Wife Amelia Howorth abt 1870 Bham, Warwickshire, England Daughter

Hi Jill Thanks Jill !! That's what I didn't have some sound info! I needed something concrete to go on! 1. There was someone on this site chasing ELKINGTONs sometime ago _ I know because I put her in touch with The Elkingtons here in New Zealand - so beware Joe, you might have a Kiwi connection and have to support the All Blacks! 2.Am I right in assuming from the censii below that Robert may have died 1861-1871? Using HOW * there are only 3 choices for Robert's death on Free BMD in B'ham. None of which look likely. However there's a Robert HOWARTH death Sept 1861 8d/289 in Ashton Under Lyne which given the info below might be significant. 3.Sarah Ann HOWORTH's birth appears to be March 1841 Ashton Under Lyne 20/157 (On the boundaries of Cheshire & Lancashire) 4.Robert HOWORTH's birth appears to be registered June 1843 B'ham 16/250 5.JOHN HOWORTH's birth appears to be registered correctly Sept 1845 B'ham 16/283. 6.DANIEL HOWARTH's birth appears to be June 1847 Ashton Under Lyne 20/156. 7.MARY HOWORTH 's birth appears Sept 1849 Wolverhampton 17/* On the whole the family appears to have spelt the name HOWORTH consistently so there maybe a mistranscription. IS it possible for someone to search Cheshire, Lancashire & particularly Wolverhampton in 1851 for Joe as I suspect they may have backtracked to familiar stomping grounds and then after Robert's death headed back to B'ham? Searching for Daniel .(with no surname or HOW * , aged 4, might do it! it's the most "unusual" name. Warning : there are other Howorths/ Howarths around the areas! Joe the only way you can be sure of the above is to ask for the certs - specify the Parents Names! Best of luck Marlene Jill Simon wrote: > Hi > I was trying to help Joe too. It's nice to know no one else can find him > either, I feel so much better now :) > This is what I did find; > > 1861 Census > Cottage Street, Birmingham Warwickshire > Robert Howarth abt 1815 Bury, Lancashire, England Head, Stonemason > Betty Howarth abt 1811 Bradford, Yorkshire, England Wife > *Sarah Ann Howarth abt 1842 Birmingham Daughter > Robert Howarth abt 1844 Birmingham Son > John Howarth abt 1846 Birmingham Son > *Daniel Howarth abt 1847 Birmingham Son > Mary Howarth abt 1850 Wolverhampton > > Marriages Dec 1868 > Elkington George Birmingham 6d 160 > HOWARD Sarah Ann Birmingham 6d 160 > > 1871 Census > 2 Hall Street, Birmingham Warwickshire > George Elkington abt 1844 Yardley, Worcestershire, England Head > *Sarah Ann Elkington abt 1842 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Wife > Robert Timothy Elkington abt 1869 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son > Mary Grace Elkington abt 1871 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter > Betty Howorth abt 1811 Halifax, Yorkshire, England Grandmother, Grandma > John Howorth abt 1846 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Brother-in-law > Robert Howorth abt 1844 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Brother-in-law > > 1871 Census > Birmingham Warwickshire > *Daniel Howorth abt 1847 Bham, Warwickshire, England Head > Amelia Howorth abt 1848 Bham, Warwickshire, England Wife > Amelia Howorth abt 1870 Bham, Warwickshire, England Daughter > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Joe Have located the HOWORTH Family in 1841 - will send Page Image direct Were living in Ashton Under Lyne Name: Robert Howorth Age: 25 Estimated birth year: abt 1816 Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Lancashire, England Civil parish: Ashton Under Lyne Hundred: Salford County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Source information: HO107/532/14 Registration district: Ashton and Oldham Sub-registration district: Ashton Town ED, institution, or vessel: 21 Folio: 15 Page: 22 (click to see others on page) Line number: 20 Helen New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene Shipman Sent: Saturday, 13 January 2007 7:58 p.m. To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] Robert Howorth

Hi I thought this could be their marriage :) Marriages Jun 1841 Howarth Robert Bury 21 136 SMETHURST Betty Bury 21 136 I read somewhere there are sheets in the 1851 census that are illegible. I'm thinking Joe's family might be on one of those sheets. I've tried searching just for the children, I couldn't find them either. Bye for now Jill

Kia Ora Helen Thanks for at least satisfying my curiousity. It will be up to Joe to check Ashton Under Lyne for baptisms or better still get the birth certs to prove it is his family and not cousins having babies with the same names(!!!) It now makes sense as to why they were there for the births of at least some of the children. Happy New Year! See you apopo! Marlene Helen Verrall wrote: > Joe > > Have located the HOWORTH Family in 1841 - will send Page Image direct > Were living in Ashton Under Lyne > > Name: Robert Howorth > Age: 25 > Estimated birth year: abt 1816 > Household: View other family members > Gender: Male > Where born: Lancashire, England > > Civil parish: Ashton Under Lyne > Hundred: Salford > County/Island: Lancashire > Country: England > > Street address: > > Occupation: View image > > Source information: HO107/532/14 > Registration district: Ashton and Oldham > Sub-registration district: Ashton Town > ED, institution, or vessel: 21 > Folio: 15 > Page: 22 (click to see others on page) > Line number: 20 > > Helen > New Zealand > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene > Shipman > Sent: Saturday, 13 January 2007 7:58 p.m. > To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Robert Howorth > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Joe Robert and Betty's Marriage located on FreeBMD Marriages Dec 1837 (>99%) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- CLEGG Betty Rochdale 21 407 HOWORTH Robert Rochdale 21 407 Have located the Robert & Betty in 1851 at - ( but no children ) 1851 England Census about Robert Howorth Name: Robert Howorth Age: 34 Estimated birth year: abt 1817 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Betty Gender: Male Where born: Rochdale, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Heap Ecclesiastical parish: Heywood St Luke County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Bury Sub-registration district: Birtle ED, institution, or vessel: 3c Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 40 Will send image ( direct ,if you cannot locate on Ancestry !! ) but have my doubts this is the Robert you are seeking. Helen New Zealand