I have recently discovered that my greatgreatgrandfather, James Miller, was born in Birmingham, and am hoping for some advice about how to trace his birth/baptism and possibly that of his wife, Eliza Standley. He appears on the 1851 census for Rhosymedre, which is near Ruabon, North Wales, and is a tinman, aged 46, born Birmingham. His wife is Eliza, aged 35, born Roscommon, Ireland. The 1841 census for this area is missing, so I don't know when they would have moved to Wales, except that it had to be before April 1844 as his son James was born in Rhosymedre then. In subsequent censuses, up to his death in 1875, he was described as a tin plate worker, and on his death certificate a master tin man. Eliza variously gives her place of birth as Roscommon, Birmingham and Sheffield. James is listed in a couple of trade directories as a tin plate worker and umbrella maker. >From his age on the various censuses, and on his death certificate, I think he was born between 1800 and 1805. I have looked at the parish registers for St Philip's, St Martin's and St Peter and St Paul's (Aston), St Paul's in the Jewellery quarter, and St Mary's, Whittall Street for likely baptisms, but couldn't find any Millers at all. I would be extremely grateful for any suggestions about which other churches might have been in existence in the locality at the time - or any ideas at all really about how to find out a bit more. I haven't looked for their marriage yet, other than on the IGI which didn't yield anything obvious. Best wishes Carol

Hi Carol Several matters to watch here! First the IGI is far from complete. Second beware of Members Submissions Look for extracted records and you should then get the film from the Mormon Family centre near to you and check the entry. Thirdly as Eliza changes her place of birth have you checked that the ages correspond? It is possible that James married more than once to an Eliza! I note that in the 1881 census Eliza Miller widow is living with her son James and is aged 75 thus born c1806. In 1851 you say she was 35 thus born 1816 Did James Junior have any siblings? Have you tracked all of them to determine commmon factors such as occupations, locations, forenames being used for example It may be necessary to purchase the birth certificates of other children to determine the mother's surname. You don't mention whether the family was Cof E or RC or non conformist? Not all records are available to the Mormon Church. Good Luck Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Thomas" <carolthomas2@googlemail.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 9:46 PM Subject: [B'ham] Miller/Standley >I have recently discovered that my greatgreatgrandfather, James Miller, was > born in Birmingham, and am hoping for some advice about how to trace his > birth/baptism and possibly that of his wife, Eliza Standley. > > He appears on the 1851 census for Rhosymedre, which is near Ruabon, North > Wales, and is a tinman, aged 46, born Birmingham. His wife is Eliza, aged > 35, born Roscommon, Ireland. > > The 1841 census for this area is missing, so I don't know when they would > have moved to Wales, except that it had to be before April 1844 as his son > James was born in Rhosymedre then. > > In subsequent censuses, up to his death in 1875, he was described as a tin > plate worker, and on his death certificate a master tin man. Eliza > variously gives her place of birth as Roscommon, Birmingham and Sheffield. > James is listed in a couple of trade directories as a tin plate worker and > umbrella maker. > >>From his age on the various censuses, and on his death certificate, I >>think > he was born between 1800 and 1805. I have looked at the parish registers > for St Philip's, St Martin's and St Peter and St Paul's (Aston), St Paul's > in the Jewellery quarter, and St Mary's, Whittall Street for likely > baptisms, but couldn't find any Millers at all. I would be extremely > grateful for any suggestions about which other churches might have been in > existence in the locality at the time - or any ideas at all really about > how > to find out a bit more. I haven't looked for their marriage yet, other > than > on the IGI which didn't yield anything obvious. > > Best wishes > Carol > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marlene Thanks for all this. Yes, I am aware of the limitations of the IGI, in fact I rarely use it but sometimes it's worth a shot. I am lucky enough to live near Birmingham, so I have looked at the microfilms of the registers I quoted. The population was becoming huge at that time, with only a few churches to serve it, and to look through even one year's worth of baptisms took hours. There were several baptisms taking place every day in St Philip's and St Martin's as I remember. As far as James and Eliza's ages go, his is consistent throughout the censuses, giving a birth date of 1805, but on the death certificate dated 1873 his age is given as 73, giving a birth year of 1800. I have looked within that date range and a bit to either side. Eliza is more difficult: 1851, aged ?38 (or 35, enumerator's mark through the number) b. Roscommon Ireland; 1861, aged 38, b. Birmingham; 1871, aged 54, b. Birmingham; 1881; aged 75, widow living with son James, b. Sheffield. On her death certificate (1885) her age is given as 77. I am pretty sure that she is the same person throughout as the children were all the same and the residence was too. I had more or less assumed that James was their eldest son as the tradition seems to have been to use either James or William for sons' names. Having said that James senior would have been 44 when James jnr. was born in 1844, which seems quite old to me. From the censuses they had only two other children - William, b 1847 and Caroline b 1852. I have not seen any evidence of baptisms so far. I suppose it is possible that they had other children in Birmingham who did not travel to Wales with them, or died. I don't know about their religion. I hope to look at the Roman Catholic registers in Birmingham before too long, and maybe they will provide a clue. Certainly by the time they were in Wales, their local church was CofE, and their children were eventually buried in that graveyard (and it looks as if the burial was certified by someone other than the local vicar or curate, meaning that the family could have been non-conformist by then). Best wishes Carol -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene Shipman Sent: 01 October 2009 12:54 To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] Miller/Standley Hi Carol Several matters to watch here! First the IGI is far from complete. Second beware of Members Submissions Look for extracted records and you should then get the film from the Mormon Family centre near to you and check the entry. Thirdly as Eliza changes her place of birth have you checked that the ages correspond? It is possible that James married more than once to an Eliza! I note that in the 1881 census Eliza Miller widow is living with her son James and is aged 75 thus born c1806. In 1851 you say she was 35 thus born 1816 Did James Junior have any siblings? Have you tracked all of them to determine commmon factors such as occupations, locations, forenames being used for example It may be necessary to purchase the birth certificates of other children to determine the mother's surname. You don't mention whether the family was Cof E or RC or non conformist? Not all records are available to the Mormon Church. Good Luck Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Thomas" <carolthomas2@googlemail.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 9:46 PM Subject: [B'ham] Miller/Standley >I have recently discovered that my greatgreatgrandfather, James Miller, >was born in Birmingham, and am hoping for some advice about how to >trace his birth/baptism and possibly that of his wife, Eliza Standley. > > He appears on the 1851 census for Rhosymedre, which is near Ruabon, > North Wales, and is a tinman, aged 46, born Birmingham. His wife is > Eliza, aged 35, born Roscommon, Ireland. > > The 1841 census for this area is missing, so I don't know when they > would have moved to Wales, except that it had to be before April 1844 > as his son James was born in Rhosymedre then. > > In subsequent censuses, up to his death in 1875, he was described as a tin > plate worker, and on his death certificate a master tin man. Eliza > variously gives her place of birth as Roscommon, Birmingham and > Sheffield. James is listed in a couple of trade directories as a tin > plate worker and umbrella maker. > >>From his age on the various censuses, and on his death certificate, I >>think > he was born between 1800 and 1805. I have looked at the parish > registers for St Philip's, St Martin's and St Peter and St Paul's > (Aston), St Paul's in the Jewellery quarter, and St Mary's, Whittall > Street for likely baptisms, but couldn't find any Millers at all. I > would be extremely grateful for any suggestions about which other > churches might have been in existence in the locality at the time - or > any ideas at all really about how to find out a bit more. I haven't > looked for their marriage yet, other than > on the IGI which didn't yield anything obvious. > > Best wishes > Carol > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message