Hi ??????? If you are not already subscribed you may find http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ITA/ITALY.html Worthwhile Have you checked the rootsweb archives? there are 47 hits for PONCIA, I don't know if any of those are yours as you haven't told us your name There are seven hits for PONCIA on the London Gazettes (google finds it easily) There are 58 hits for PONCIA on the National Archives including the following HO Records created or inherited by the Home Office, Ministry of Home Security, and related bodies Division within HO Aliens and Immigration, Denization and Naturalisation, Community Relations, Community Programmes and Equal Opportunities Departments HO 1 Home Office: Denization and Naturalisation Papers and Correspondence Subseries within HO 1 Denizations and Naturalizations HO 1/11 Denization Papers Record Summary Scope and content Denization Papers: Garnier, Paul (Minor), from Paris. Mainwaring, Laura Maria Valburga Julia, from Baden. Simon, Louis Pierre, from France. Hope, Charles, from China. Sola, Augustus, from Switzerland. Poncia, Peter, from Italy. Duplenne, Pierre Francois, from France. Date of Letters Patent: 1 June 1837. Covering dates 1837 Availability Open Document, Open Description, Normal Closure before FOI Act: 30 years Held by The National Archives, Kew And Will of Peter Poncia, Gentleman of Edgbaston near Birmingham , Warwickshire 09 January 1857 PROB 11/2245 Will of John Poncia, General Factor of Birmingham , Warwickshire 12 February 1842 PROB 11/1958 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >I am looking for Peter Poncia b. ca. 1790 Como Italy. I have no further > details about his life in Italy but he was shown as a widower at his > second > marriage pre 1841 Was shown as hardware dealer in Birmingham in 1841. I > saw > a vague reference connecting him with the Tala brand kitchenware. I am > interested in his business affairs as he was a wealthy man when he died in > 1856. I am an Australian descendant of his son Peter b.1813 at Worcester. > Any help please.

I'm seeking any information on the family/descendants of Joseph SPENCER and Simon ONIONS who lived in Birmingham during the first half of the 19th century, please. Jan Hearn

tena koe Marlene, Thankyou for your response. I must admit that I was down in Wellington ( for family reasons ), when I saw his burial in Karori, at the National Library. I had previously, years ago, noted the Death on Fiche, & took him to be another family member, from Napier, however, Karori did not fit, for a burial. Anyway, limited remaining time spent searching electoral rolls, & it was only on the 'Plane home, that it " sunk in " that there would be paper work from when he died intestate. So, that slipup almost kept my mind off the very bouncy takeoff, & what appeared as a one wheel landing in Napier. I do intend getting back by letter to the Archives, & your e mail has promted me to get on to it, ka pai Mary -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene Shipman Sent: Friday, 29 May 2009 12:47 a.m. To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] William Charles MORECOCK / MOORECOCK Kia Ora Mary It might be worthwhile writing to National Archives New Zealand to see if they have a record of his emigration. His Probate was recorded at Archives New Zealand Wellington in 1944 as a gun maker REFERENCE AAOM 6030 13064 . He died intestate but there are Letters of Administration which you can obtain for a fee. A Minnie Maud MORECOCK aged 2 died Dec Q 1895 Birmingham 6d/71 which might be of interest to you. A Doris MOORCOCK married Charles BERNHARD Sept Q 1929 Lewisham which might be worth trying! A Minnie M MORECOCK married JOHN T HODGETTS June Q 1912 Birmingham 6d/215 which possibly means she remarried after WCM had emigrated. A search of the 1911 census might locate Minnie M and her daughters in Birmingham. Obviously a check using all the various spellings of the surname would be necessary! Good luck Marlene Aotearoa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Legarth" <legarthm@levin.pl.net> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Cc: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: [B'ham] William Charles MORECOCK / MOORECOCK >I now have the Death Certificate for William Charles MORECOCK, Death & > Burial Registered as MOORECOCK, in March 1944. > > > > William , a Gun Maker, emigrated to New Zealand in 1904, as MORECOCK, > I > think that he landed in Wellington, but need to confirm that. > > He certainly shows in Electoral Rolls mid & late 1930' s , in Wellington, > trawling through the rolls for some years will be the next challenge. > > Certificate informant was the Undertaker.. However, somewhere, maybe his > Hospital admission, he has the following details ; Age at Death , 74 > yrs, Father was Alfred Moorecock a Gunmaker, , first & maiden name of > Mother , not known. William Born in London, , England, in New Zealand > about > 40 years. married at age 21 yrs to Minnie Maud Birch, . At his death there > was no Widow or living children. > > > > We know from information sent to me, that the Father of William was Alfred > MORECOCK , Mother, Mary A .. > > William & Minnie had 2 daughters in 1901, in Birmingham, Doris May age > 4 > , & Leah, age 2 yrs. > > Free BDM shows that they may have 2 deceased children, William & Minnie, > by 1901 . > > > > But, what happened to Doris May & Leah ? > > > > Should anyone have information about the family of William I would be > pleased to hear from you. > > > > I can find no record of a Death , or Marriage in New Zealand, for his > daughters, or a death of his wife, Minnie. > > I had wondered if they followed after William landed in N.Z., but it > seems > not. > > > > My Gt Grandfather John MOORCOCK, ( born Surrey 1847, emigrated 1874, ) > had left New Zealand, ( & his wife & family ) to return to England, > probably 1902, / 1904. ( he then married bigamously , in Monmouthshire, > emigrating again, this time to Queensland , Australia. > > > > Is anyone researching this family , or has anyone further ideas about them > , > I would be so pleased to hear from you. > > > > Mary > > New Zealand.

Thankyou, Gus, I am soooo grateful for all the time you have spent gathering the information, & advice given. I will follow your research suggestions, in addition to obtaining the legal Papers relating to the intestate Death of William, here in New Zealand. Mary New Zealand. -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gus Tysoe Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2009 8:35 p.m. To: warwick@rootsweb.com Cc: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] [WAR] William Charles MORECOCK / MOORECOCK Hello Mary, The information you've shared here seems very vague and at - at best - second or third hand :-( While not doubting for one moment that the information on the death certificate was supplied "to the best of the Informant's knowledge", that knowledge has to be considered questionable, and each piece needs to be verified. Probably the best place to start is with the reported marriage - "a" William Charles MORECOCK and a Minnie Maud BIRCH share the same marriage reference number of1891 Dec Q, Aston, 6d 484. The certificate should give his age, occupation, and his father's name and occupation at the time. The 1891 Census reveals *2* William MORECOCKs, both born in London, living in the same street in Birmingham, and born 1867+/2 - and the same two can be found in the 1901, from which it's reasonable to accept that yours is the younger one.. 1891 Census - RG12/2392/122/126 2, back of 51 Princip Street, Birmingham Alfred MORECOCK, Head, M, 50, M, Gun Maker Finisher, LDN, Whitechapel Mary A MORECOCK, Wife, M, 49, F, -, LDN, Bow William MORECOCK, Son, U, 20, M, Gun Maker Finisher, LDN, Whitechapel [plus 4 younger children, all born Birmingham] The older one - at 1, back of 63 [the Fox & Dog] Princip Street - was married to a Selina, the son of another William, and they had a son, William, 1, who *may* be the death you found as he is not with the family in 1901. The family would seem to have moved to Leeds in Yorkshire around 1896-97. There were 2 marriages of Alfred MORECOCKs in the London area in the 1860s - both of whom *could* have married a Mary Ann :-( 1861 Dec Q, Shoreditch, 1c 280 - Mary Ann FISH 1865 Jun Q, Bethnal Green, 1c 702 - Mary Ann WILSON In view of Alfred stating in the 1891 Census that William was born in Bethnal Green, the latter would seem the more likely of the two. In 1881 Alfred, Mary Ann and the children - including 2 daughters older than William [Eliza, 15, and Elizabeth, 13] - were in Birmingham, recorded as "MOWCOCKs". So it would seem reasonable to take the birth registration of a William Charles MOCOCK in 1870 Jun Q, Bethnal Green, 1c 316 as being yours.... All of which would seem to confirm (and extend) the details given on the Death Certificate - subject, naturally, to obtaining the birth and the 2 marriage certificates. But as for *when* William emigrated - and what became of his wife and children - I can't help... Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Legarth" <legarthm@levin.pl.net> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Cc: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:08 AM Subject: [WAR] William Charles MORECOCK / MOORECOCK >I now have the Death Certificate for William Charles MORECOCK, Death & > Burial Registered as MOORECOCK, in March 1944. > > > > William , a Gun Maker, emigrated to New Zealand in 1904, as MORECOCK, > I > think that he landed in Wellington, but need to confirm that. > > He certainly shows in Electoral Rolls mid & late 1930' s , in Wellington, > trawling through the rolls for some years will be the next challenge. > > Certificate informant was the Undertaker.. However, somewhere, maybe his > Hospital admission, he has the following details ; Age at Death , 74 > yrs, Father was Alfred Moorecock a Gunmaker, , first & maiden name of > Mother , not known. William Born in London, , England, in New Zealand > about > 40 years. married at age 21 yrs to Minnie Maud Birch, . At his death there > was no Widow or living children. > > > > We know from information sent to me, that the Father of William was Alfred > MORECOCK , Mother, Mary A .. > > William & Minnie had 2 daughters in 1901, in Birmingham, Doris May age > 4 > , & Leah, age 2 yrs. > > Free BDM shows that they may have 2 deceased children, William & Minnie, > by 1901 . > > > > But, what happened to Doris May & Leah ? > > > > Should anyone have information about the family of William I would be > pleased to hear from you. > > > > I can find no record of a Death , or Marriage in New Zealand, for his > daughters, or a death of his wife, Minnie. > > I had wondered if they followed after William landed in N.Z., but it > seems > not. > > > > My Gt Grandfather John MOORCOCK, ( born Surrey 1847, emigrated 1874, ) > had left New Zealand, ( & his wife & family ) to return to England, > probably 1902, / 1904. ( he then married bigamously , in Monmouthshire, > emigrating again, this time to Queensland , Australia. > > > > Is anyone researching this family , or has anyone further ideas about them > , > I would be so pleased to hear from you. > > > > Mary > > New Zealand.

Kia Ora Mary It might be worthwhile writing to National Archives New Zealand to see if they have a record of his emigration. His Probate was recorded at Archives New Zealand Wellington in 1944 as a gun maker REFERENCE AAOM 6030 13064 . He died intestate but there are Letters of Administration which you can obtain for a fee. A Minnie Maud MORECOCK aged 2 died Dec Q 1895 Birmingham 6d/71 which might be of interest to you. A Doris MOORCOCK married Charles BERNHARD Sept Q 1929 Lewisham which might be worth trying! A Minnie M MORECOCK married JOHN T HODGETTS June Q 1912 Birmingham 6d/215 which possibly means she remarried after WCM had emigrated. A search of the 1911 census might locate Minnie M and her daughters in Birmingham. Obviously a check using all the various spellings of the surname would be necessary! Good luck Marlene Aotearoa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Legarth" <legarthm@levin.pl.net> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Cc: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: [B'ham] William Charles MORECOCK / MOORECOCK >I now have the Death Certificate for William Charles MORECOCK, Death & > Burial Registered as MOORECOCK, in March 1944. > > > > William , a Gun Maker, emigrated to New Zealand in 1904, as MORECOCK, > I > think that he landed in Wellington, but need to confirm that. > > He certainly shows in Electoral Rolls mid & late 1930' s , in Wellington, > trawling through the rolls for some years will be the next challenge. > > Certificate informant was the Undertaker.. However, somewhere, maybe his > Hospital admission, he has the following details ; Age at Death , 74 > yrs, Father was Alfred Moorecock a Gunmaker, , first & maiden name of > Mother , not known. William Born in London, , England, in New Zealand > about > 40 years. married at age 21 yrs to Minnie Maud Birch, . At his death there > was no Widow or living children. > > > > We know from information sent to me, that the Father of William was Alfred > MORECOCK , Mother, Mary A .. > > William & Minnie had 2 daughters in 1901, in Birmingham, Doris May age > 4 > , & Leah, age 2 yrs. > > Free BDM shows that they may have 2 deceased children, William & Minnie, > by 1901 . > > > > But, what happened to Doris May & Leah ? > > > > Should anyone have information about the family of William I would be > pleased to hear from you. > > > > I can find no record of a Death , or Marriage in New Zealand, for his > daughters, or a death of his wife, Minnie. > > I had wondered if they followed after William landed in N.Z., but it > seems > not. > > > > My Gt Grandfather John MOORCOCK, ( born Surrey 1847, emigrated 1874, ) > had left New Zealand, ( & his wife & family ) to return to England, > probably 1902, / 1904. ( he then married bigamously , in Monmouthshire, > emigrating again, this time to Queensland , Australia. > > > > Is anyone researching this family , or has anyone further ideas about them > , > I would be so pleased to hear from you. > > > > Mary > > New Zealand. > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

have you tried Facebook? It has worked for me in finding lost relatives. Dave Carr Paignton Devon On 28 May 2009, at 16:36, Shelley Prelusky wrote: Hi Everyone, This is my first time on this site. I hope this is where I can leave my note. I don't really know where to write to get help on finding my long lost cousin. His name is Simon M. J. Arrowsmith and he was a lawyer in Birmingham, UK. I've tried writing to the Law site where he was listed but no one will answer me or they maybe don't know how to contact Simon. I'm doing our family tree and found photos of his Father, his G. Grandparents, and further back. My G. Grandmother was sister to his Elizabeth Bradbury who married Arrowsmith and then Faram. So is there anyway, anyone could help me with an email address or even a snail mail address from the Birmingham phone book? OR you could even pass along my information if that is more proper. Thanks so much for reading this. Shelley B.C. Canada _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I now have the Death Certificate for William Charles MORECOCK, Death & Burial Registered as MOORECOCK, in March 1944. William , a Gun Maker, emigrated to New Zealand in 1904, as MORECOCK, I think that he landed in Wellington, but need to confirm that. He certainly shows in Electoral Rolls mid & late 1930' s , in Wellington, trawling through the rolls for some years will be the next challenge. Certificate informant was the Undertaker.. However, somewhere, maybe his Hospital admission, he has the following details ; Age at Death , 74 yrs, Father was Alfred Moorecock a Gunmaker, , first & maiden name of Mother , not known. William Born in London, , England, in New Zealand about 40 years. married at age 21 yrs to Minnie Maud Birch, . At his death there was no Widow or living children. We know from information sent to me, that the Father of William was Alfred MORECOCK , Mother, Mary A .. William & Minnie had 2 daughters in 1901, in Birmingham, Doris May age 4 , & Leah, age 2 yrs. Free BDM shows that they may have 2 deceased children, William & Minnie, by 1901 . But, what happened to Doris May & Leah ? Should anyone have information about the family of William I would be pleased to hear from you. I can find no record of a Death , or Marriage in New Zealand, for his daughters, or a death of his wife, Minnie. I had wondered if they followed after William landed in N.Z., but it seems not. My Gt Grandfather John MOORCOCK, ( born Surrey 1847, emigrated 1874, ) had left New Zealand, ( & his wife & family ) to return to England, probably 1902, / 1904. ( he then married bigamously , in Monmouthshire, emigrating again, this time to Queensland , Australia. Is anyone researching this family , or has anyone further ideas about them , I would be so pleased to hear from you. Mary New Zealand.

hello Shelley The Rootsweb lists are for genealogical research and should not really be used for searching for living people. There are a number of sites you can use - though you may have to subscribe 192.com http://www.192.com/ the BT directory enquiries ( though a lot of people are either ex directory or use mobiles <http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en//search/residential/search.publisha?Surname=&Location=&Initial=&Street= > or http://www.ukphonebook.com/ or you could join Genesreunited and see if anyone has a tree with him on. HTH Good luck Anne On 28 May 2009, at 16:36, Shelley Prelusky wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > This is my first time on this site. I hope this is where I can > leave my note. > > I don't really know where to write to get help on finding my long > lost cousin. His name is Simon M. J. Arrowsmith and he was a lawyer > in Birmingham, UK. I've tried writing to the Law site where he was > listed but no one will answer me or they maybe don't know how to > contact Simon. > I'm doing our family tree and found photos of his Father, his G. > Grandparents, and further back. My G. Grandmother was sister to his > Elizabeth Bradbury who married Arrowsmith and then Faram. > > So is there anyway, anyone could help me with an email address or > even a snail mail address from the Birmingham phone book? OR you > could even pass along my information if that is more proper. > > Thanks so much for reading this. > > > Shelley > > B.C. Canada

Hi Shelley As rootsweb lists are not to be used for researching the living I will email you off list with some details which may help you Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Everyone, > > This is my first time on this site. I hope this is where I can leave my > note. > > I don't really know where to write to get help on finding my long lost > cousin. His name is Simon M. J. Arrowsmith and he was a lawyer in > Birmingham, UK. I've tried writing to the Law site where he was listed > but no one will answer me or they maybe don't know how to contact Simon. > I'm doing our family tree and found photos of his Father, his G. > Grandparents, and further back. My G. Grandmother was sister to his > Elizabeth Bradbury who married Arrowsmith and then Faram. > > So is there anyway, anyone could help me with an email address or even a > snail mail address from the Birmingham phone book? OR you could even pass > along my information if that is more proper. > > Thanks so much for reading this. > > > Shelley > > B.C. Canada

Hi Everyone, This is my first time on this site. I hope this is where I can leave my note. I don't really know where to write to get help on finding my long lost cousin. His name is Simon M. J. Arrowsmith and he was a lawyer in Birmingham, UK. I've tried writing to the Law site where he was listed but no one will answer me or they maybe don't know how to contact Simon. I'm doing our family tree and found photos of his Father, his G. Grandparents, and further back. My G. Grandmother was sister to his Elizabeth Bradbury who married Arrowsmith and then Faram. So is there anyway, anyone could help me with an email address or even a snail mail address from the Birmingham phone book? OR you could even pass along my information if that is more proper. Thanks so much for reading this. Shelley B.C. Canada

Hello Mary, The information you've shared here seems very vague and at - at best - second or third hand :-( While not doubting for one moment that the information on the death certificate was supplied "to the best of the Informant's knowledge", that knowledge has to be considered questionable, and each piece needs to be verified. Probably the best place to start is with the reported marriage - "a" William Charles MORECOCK and a Minnie Maud BIRCH share the same marriage reference number of1891 Dec Q, Aston, 6d 484. The certificate should give his age, occupation, and his father's name and occupation at the time. The 1891 Census reveals *2* William MORECOCKs, both born in London, living in the same street in Birmingham, and born 1867+/2 - and the same two can be found in the 1901, from which it's reasonable to accept that yours is the younger one.. 1891 Census - RG12/2392/122/126 2, back of 51 Princip Street, Birmingham Alfred MORECOCK, Head, M, 50, M, Gun Maker Finisher, LDN, Whitechapel Mary A MORECOCK, Wife, M, 49, F, -, LDN, Bow William MORECOCK, Son, U, 20, M, Gun Maker Finisher, LDN, Whitechapel [plus 4 younger children, all born Birmingham] The older one - at 1, back of 63 [the Fox & Dog] Princip Street - was married to a Selina, the son of another William, and they had a son, William, 1, who *may* be the death you found as he is not with the family in 1901. The family would seem to have moved to Leeds in Yorkshire around 1896-97. There were 2 marriages of Alfred MORECOCKs in the London area in the 1860s - both of whom *could* have married a Mary Ann :-( 1861 Dec Q, Shoreditch, 1c 280 - Mary Ann FISH 1865 Jun Q, Bethnal Green, 1c 702 - Mary Ann WILSON In view of Alfred stating in the 1891 Census that William was born in Bethnal Green, the latter would seem the more likely of the two. In 1881 Alfred, Mary Ann and the children - including 2 daughters older than William [Eliza, 15, and Elizabeth, 13] - were in Birmingham, recorded as "MOWCOCKs". So it would seem reasonable to take the birth registration of a William Charles MOCOCK in 1870 Jun Q, Bethnal Green, 1c 316 as being yours.... All of which would seem to confirm (and extend) the details given on the Death Certificate - subject, naturally, to obtaining the birth and the 2 marriage certificates. But as for *when* William emigrated - and what became of his wife and children - I can't help... Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Legarth" <legarthm@levin.pl.net> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Cc: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:08 AM Subject: [WAR] William Charles MORECOCK / MOORECOCK >I now have the Death Certificate for William Charles MORECOCK, Death & > Burial Registered as MOORECOCK, in March 1944. > > > > William , a Gun Maker, emigrated to New Zealand in 1904, as MORECOCK, > I > think that he landed in Wellington, but need to confirm that. > > He certainly shows in Electoral Rolls mid & late 1930' s , in Wellington, > trawling through the rolls for some years will be the next challenge. > > Certificate informant was the Undertaker.. However, somewhere, maybe his > Hospital admission, he has the following details ; Age at Death , 74 > yrs, Father was Alfred Moorecock a Gunmaker, , first & maiden name of > Mother , not known. William Born in London, , England, in New Zealand > about > 40 years. married at age 21 yrs to Minnie Maud Birch, . At his death there > was no Widow or living children. > > > > We know from information sent to me, that the Father of William was Alfred > MORECOCK , Mother, Mary A .. > > William & Minnie had 2 daughters in 1901, in Birmingham, Doris May age > 4 > , & Leah, age 2 yrs. > > Free BDM shows that they may have 2 deceased children, William & Minnie, > by 1901 . > > > > But, what happened to Doris May & Leah ? > > > > Should anyone have information about the family of William I would be > pleased to hear from you. > > > > I can find no record of a Death , or Marriage in New Zealand, for his > daughters, or a death of his wife, Minnie. > > I had wondered if they followed after William landed in N.Z., but it > seems > not. > > > > My Gt Grandfather John MOORCOCK, ( born Surrey 1847, emigrated 1874, ) > had left New Zealand, ( & his wife & family ) to return to England, > probably 1902, / 1904. ( he then married bigamously , in Monmouthshire, > emigrating again, this time to Queensland , Australia. > > > > Is anyone researching this family , or has anyone further ideas about them > , > I would be so pleased to hear from you. > > > > Mary > > New Zealand. > > > > > > > > List archives are at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kia Ora Chris That additional info helps immensely when looking for pople! Thanks! Some suggestions! 1. Can you find Patrick in England in 1871? Might he be John Graham's brother/cousin? 2. I'd take a look for Mary Smith (hopefully with her parents ) born +/- 1854 Darlaston Staffs in the 1861 census. Should be about 7 years. 3. Ireland is my personal nightmare to search- you might try "Emerald Ancestors" or the "PRONI" site. 4. It looks as if Mary was nicknamed Polly and that Margaret died between 1881 and 1891 . There is the death of a MARGARET GRAHAM Sept 1881 6d/83 aged 1 which is possibly your family. 5. MARY GRAHAM married WALTER CUSACK June Q 1908 Birmingham 6d/255. 6.WALTER CUSACK was of age to serve in WW1 - you might find his war record on the National Archives site. 7. There a heap of JOHN & ANN GRAHAM'S deaths on Free BMD - you will need to search the censii to find when they each cease to be there and then check Free BMD looking at ages for their deaths. Happy hunting! Marlene New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: <jack.smith@ukonline.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:02 AM Subject: [B'ham] Graham family > > Hi All, > At the suggestion of another member I am sending more info on the Graham > family. > > 1871 Rawlins St Birmingham > John Graham,40,police Constable,Ireland > Ann Graham,wife,34,Darlaston > Four additional children > Mary Smith,lodger,17,steel pen grinder,Darlaston > > 1881 112 Lancaster St B'ham > Paterick Graham,lodger,39,light gun maker,Ireland > Mary Graham,wife,26,Darlaston > Mary Graham,dau,3,B'ham > Margaret Graham,dau,1,B'ham > > 1891, 59 Cleveland St B'ham > Patrick Graham,46,gun maker,Ireland > Mary Graham,wife,38,steel pen maker,Darlaston > Mary Graham,dau,14,press worker,B'ham > > 1901,Bath St B'ham > Paddy Graham,60,gun barrel worker,Ireland > Mary Graham,wife,48,steel pen grinder,Darlaston > Polly Graham,dau,23,B'ham > > 1911,Weaman St B'ham > Patrick Graham,69,married 40 yrs,4 children,1 alive, gun barrel > smoother,Ireland > Mary Graham,wife,58,pen grinder,Darlaston > Mary Cusack,dau,33,married 3 yrs,lathe worker,B'ham > Walter Cusack,son/law,29,blacksmith,B'ham > > Baptism > Jacobus Graham, 1 Sept 1876/24 Sept 1876 St Peters Broad St > Patrick Graham 18 Dec 1878/19 Jan 1879 St Michael Moor St > Birth Cert > 12 Feb 1880 11 Court Lancaster St > Margaret Graham, father Patrick, mother Mary graham nee Smith > > Best Wishes > Chris > > ---------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Karen Hope someon can give you the 1871 census which would further limit your searching for immigration records! Write to me privately if you're stuck for further info _ I might be able to help! Cheers Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen & Peter" <petert2@slingshot.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] PUGH/GEE > Kia Ora Marlene, > > Thankyou very much for the information and I will see what I come up with. > > Kindest Regards > > Karen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlene Shipman" <marlene.s@xtra.co.nz> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:19 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] PUGH/GEE > > >> Kia Ora Karen >> A WILLIAM GEE died June Q 1863 Birmingham and an Elizabeth GEE died June >> Q 1867 at Aston. You can purchase the death certs from the B'ham records >> office . First look up the reference numbers by googling FREE BMD and >> becoming famiiar with the ways to use the site! >> Also google "IMMIGRATION SHIPS TO NEW ZEALAND" which lists some of the >> ships and passengers that came to NZ. There other sites. >> Have you checked NZ National Archives for the passenger index for the >> arrival in NZ ? It's in alphabetical order and it helps if you have an >> idea where they landed. >> Cecilia Elizabeth Philips' birth was registered Sept Q 1869 Aston 6d/288. >> If you're sure of her name then I'd advise you to buy the certificate to >> ensure you have the right parents. Someone may be able to help you with >> the 1871 census entry otherwise you can access it through your nearest >> large library or the Mormon Church Family History centre. >> Did Cecilia have a sister named Amy Ellen born 1875 in New Zealand? If so >> that certainly limits the time frame to search pssenger lists for their >> arrival in NZ to between Sept Qtr 1869 and 1875. >> You will find the births of the GEE children on Free BMD with the classic >> dilemmna for family historians - there are births in both Aston & >> Birmingham 1850 and 1852 and deaths in both places in the 1860s - that is >> why it is essential you buy the certificates to ensure you re recording >> the correct tree! >> Good luck! >> Marlene >> Aotearoa >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Karen & Peter" <petert2@slingshot.co.nz> >> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:53 PM >> Subject: [B'ham] PUGH/GEE >> >> >>> >>> Hello Listers, >>> >>> I was wondering if there is anyone interested in the following. If so >>> I >>> would be very interested to hear from you. >>> >>> ? Pugh married a Mary b 1781 in Shropshire. They had 4 known children >>> >>> Elizabeth Pugh b 1816 >>> Jane Pugh b 1821 >>> John and Thomas Pugh b 1826 >>> >>> Elizabeth Pugh married a William Gee b 1816 in Mar Coventry in 1842 in >>> Stourbridge. >>> They had 6 known children >>> >>> William b 1843 >>> Elizabeth b 1846 >>> Susannah b 1848 >>> Ralph b 1850 >>> John H b 1853 >>> Eleanor b 1858 >>> >>> William died abt 1863 in Aston Warwickshire and Elizabeth died abt 1867 >>> in Aston Warwickshire >>> >>> I would like to try and find out more on this family. I believe >>> Susannah married a George Phillips and they had a daughter Cecilia >>> Elizabeth b 1869. They left England for New Zealand but I have been >>> unable to find any records of them leaving English shores. I am only >>> assuming the above is correct regarding marriage as I have been unable >>> to >>> confirm this and the birth of Cecilia but only putting into pieces of >>> information I have from New Zealand shores. >>> >>> I would appreciate anyone if they could further this information for >>> me. >>> >>> Kindest Regards >>> >>> Karen >>> _____________________________________________ >>> _____________________________________________ >>> >>> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >>> >>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kia Ora Marlene, Thankyou very much for the information and I will see what I come up with. Kindest Regards Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <marlene.s@xtra.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] PUGH/GEE > Kia Ora Karen > A WILLIAM GEE died June Q 1863 Birmingham and an Elizabeth GEE died June > Q 1867 at Aston. You can purchase the death certs from the B'ham records > office . First look up the reference numbers by googling FREE BMD and > becoming famiiar with the ways to use the site! > Also google "IMMIGRATION SHIPS TO NEW ZEALAND" which lists some of the > ships and passengers that came to NZ. There other sites. > Have you checked NZ National Archives for the passenger index for the > arrival in NZ ? It's in alphabetical order and it helps if you have an > idea where they landed. > Cecilia Elizabeth Philips' birth was registered Sept Q 1869 Aston 6d/288. > If you're sure of her name then I'd advise you to buy the certificate to > ensure you have the right parents. Someone may be able to help you with > the 1871 census entry otherwise you can access it through your nearest > large library or the Mormon Church Family History centre. > Did Cecilia have a sister named Amy Ellen born 1875 in New Zealand? If so > that certainly limits the time frame to search pssenger lists for their > arrival in NZ to between Sept Qtr 1869 and 1875. > You will find the births of the GEE children on Free BMD with the classic > dilemmna for family historians - there are births in both Aston & > Birmingham 1850 and 1852 and deaths in both places in the 1860s - that is > why it is essential you buy the certificates to ensure you re recording > the correct tree! > Good luck! > Marlene > Aotearoa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen & Peter" <petert2@slingshot.co.nz> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:53 PM > Subject: [B'ham] PUGH/GEE > > >> >> Hello Listers, >> >> I was wondering if there is anyone interested in the following. If so I >> would be very interested to hear from you. >> >> ? Pugh married a Mary b 1781 in Shropshire. They had 4 known children >> >> Elizabeth Pugh b 1816 >> Jane Pugh b 1821 >> John and Thomas Pugh b 1826 >> >> Elizabeth Pugh married a William Gee b 1816 in Mar Coventry in 1842 in >> Stourbridge. >> They had 6 known children >> >> William b 1843 >> Elizabeth b 1846 >> Susannah b 1848 >> Ralph b 1850 >> John H b 1853 >> Eleanor b 1858 >> >> William died abt 1863 in Aston Warwickshire and Elizabeth died abt 1867 >> in Aston Warwickshire >> >> I would like to try and find out more on this family. I believe >> Susannah married a George Phillips and they had a daughter Cecilia >> Elizabeth b 1869. They left England for New Zealand but I have been >> unable to find any records of them leaving English shores. I am only >> assuming the above is correct regarding marriage as I have been unable to >> confirm this and the birth of Cecilia but only putting into pieces of >> information I have from New Zealand shores. >> >> I would appreciate anyone if they could further this information for me. >> >> Kindest Regards >> >> Karen >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Reg Wesson <rwesson@cogeco.ca> wrote: My uncle on my mother's side was baptised in 1899 in a Church in Smethwick, where my motherw was also baptised. My mother at the time lived on Bellefield Rd and in the 1901 Census was Heath Green, both in Smethwick. My uncle's address was recorded as New Street, Winson Green. Looking at a current map, New Street appears to be west of Winson Green almost into Sandwell. Does any one have a 1900 era map to see if New Street was at one time in Winson Green? =================== Dear Reg, My 'Godfrey Edition' OS map of Winson Green & Hockley (dated 1903) shows Bellefield Rd (across Dudley Rd from Summerfield Park) to be in Winson Green (not Smethwick). New Street is also in Smethwick. My 'Godfrey Edition' OS map of Smethwick (dated 1901) shows New Street running southwestwards from Rolfe Street to the bridge over the L&NWR Stour Valley Line railway, where it meets Crockett's Lane. There was a chapel on the west side of New Street. The 1949 street gazetteer I'm using does not include Heath Green - I'm not sure where it was situated. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK (Winson Green born and bred!) E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/

John, thank you for that information, although my mother always said she lived in Smethwick. Heath Green is the next street to Bellefield to the west. Both streets end at Cuthbert Rd. Reg ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <john@jlb2005.plus.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Winson Green > Reg Wesson <rwesson@cogeco.ca> wrote: > My uncle on my mother's side was baptised in 1899 in a Church in > Smethwick, > where my motherw was also baptised. My mother at the time lived on > Bellefield Rd and in the 1901 Census was Heath Green, both in Smethwick. > My uncle's address was recorded as New Street, Winson Green. > Looking at a current map, New Street appears to be west of Winson Green > almost into Sandwell. > Does any one have a 1900 era map to see if New Street was at one time in > Winson Green? > =================== > > Dear Reg, > > My 'Godfrey Edition' OS map of Winson Green & Hockley (dated 1903) shows > Bellefield Rd (across Dudley Rd from Summerfield Park) to be in Winson > Green > (not Smethwick). > New Street is also in Smethwick. My 'Godfrey Edition' OS map of Smethwick > (dated 1901) shows New Street running southwestwards from Rolfe Street to > the bridge over the L&NWR Stour Valley Line railway, where it meets > Crockett's Lane. There was a chapel on the west side of New Street. > The 1949 street gazetteer I'm using does not include Heath Green - I'm not > sure where it was situated. > > Kind regards, > > > John > -------------------- > John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK > (Winson Green born and bred!) > E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com > John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Kia Ora Karen A WILLIAM GEE died June Q 1863 Birmingham and an Elizabeth GEE died June Q 1867 at Aston. You can purchase the death certs from the B'ham records office . First look up the reference numbers by googling FREE BMD and becoming famiiar with the ways to use the site! Also google "IMMIGRATION SHIPS TO NEW ZEALAND" which lists some of the ships and passengers that came to NZ. There other sites. Have you checked NZ National Archives for the passenger index for the arrival in NZ ? It's in alphabetical order and it helps if you have an idea where they landed. Cecilia Elizabeth Philips' birth was registered Sept Q 1869 Aston 6d/288. If you're sure of her name then I'd advise you to buy the certificate to ensure you have the right parents. Someone may be able to help you with the 1871 census entry otherwise you can access it through your nearest large library or the Mormon Church Family History centre. Did Cecilia have a sister named Amy Ellen born 1875 in New Zealand? If so that certainly limits the time frame to search pssenger lists for their arrival in NZ to between Sept Qtr 1869 and 1875. You will find the births of the GEE children on Free BMD with the classic dilemmna for family historians - there are births in both Aston & Birmingham 1850 and 1852 and deaths in both places in the 1860s - that is why it is essential you buy the certificates to ensure you re recording the correct tree! Good luck! Marlene Aotearoa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen & Peter" <petert2@slingshot.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:53 PM Subject: [B'ham] PUGH/GEE > > Hello Listers, > > I was wondering if there is anyone interested in the following. If so I > would be very interested to hear from you. > > ? Pugh married a Mary b 1781 in Shropshire. They had 4 known children > > Elizabeth Pugh b 1816 > Jane Pugh b 1821 > John and Thomas Pugh b 1826 > > Elizabeth Pugh married a William Gee b 1816 in Mar Coventry in 1842 in > Stourbridge. > They had 6 known children > > William b 1843 > Elizabeth b 1846 > Susannah b 1848 > Ralph b 1850 > John H b 1853 > Eleanor b 1858 > > William died abt 1863 in Aston Warwickshire and Elizabeth died abt 1867 > in Aston Warwickshire > > I would like to try and find out more on this family. I believe Susannah > married a George Phillips and they had a daughter Cecilia Elizabeth b > 1869. They left England for New Zealand but I have been unable to find > any records of them leaving English shores. I am only assuming the above > is correct regarding marriage as I have been unable to confirm this and > the birth of Cecilia but only putting into pieces of information I have > from New Zealand shores. > > I would appreciate anyone if they could further this information for me. > > Kindest Regards > > Karen > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Gary Sorry to hear of your loss, been there got the proverbial T shirt, not a great feeling I know Any previous correspondance you have had on any mailing list will be found in the archives (which is a very good reason to keep as much onlist as possible) All list archives can be found here http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ Select mailing lists from the top bar and either search all lists at the same time or find a miling list to search individualy External hard drives are quite reasonably priced these days and ideal for backing up data , perhaps worth considering Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi List > > I,ve had a major coniption with my computer , lost loads if files , and > emails etc, can anyone researching above please get in touch with view > to obtaining that lost information again . > > thank you > > Gary Hodge

Hi All, At the suggestion of another member I am sending more info on the Graham family. 1871 Rawlins St Birmingham John Graham,40,police Constable,Ireland Ann Graham,wife,34,Darlaston Four additional children Mary Smith,lodger,17,steel pen grinder,Darlaston 1881 112 Lancaster St B'ham Paterick Graham,lodger,39,light gun maker,Ireland Mary Graham,wife,26,Darlaston Mary Graham,dau,3,B'ham Margaret Graham,dau,1,B'ham 1891, 59 Cleveland St B'ham Patrick Graham,46,gun maker,Ireland Mary Graham,wife,38,steel pen maker,Darlaston Mary Graham,dau,14,press worker,B'ham 1901,Bath St B'ham Paddy Graham,60,gun barrel worker,Ireland Mary Graham,wife,48,steel pen grinder,Darlaston Polly Graham,dau,23,B'ham 1911,Weaman St B'ham Patrick Graham,69,married 40 yrs,4 children,1 alive, gun barrel smoother,Ireland Mary Graham,wife,58,pen grinder,Darlaston Mary Cusack,dau,33,married 3 yrs,lathe worker,B'ham Walter Cusack,son/law,29,blacksmith,B'ham Baptism Jacobus Graham, 1 Sept 1876/24 Sept 1876 St Peters Broad St Patrick Graham 18 Dec 1878/19 Jan 1879 St Michael Moor St Birth Cert 12 Feb 1880 11 Court Lancaster St Margaret Graham, father Patrick, mother Mary graham nee Smith Best Wishes Chris ---------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net